I had to go out and test whether munkey's claims had any ground.
I have 11,8k GS
Weapon end dmg is 784 and unbuffed I have 5982 power.
D HW initial heal heals me for 1901.
Ofc in PvP there is no pet,
W/O pet I have 4303 power.
D HW initial heal heals me for 1803.
So the 1700 power from pet gives +100 on the initial tick.
Now let's see what i can improve on my char.
Ancient weapon +33 healing and dmg which is equivalent with 900 power.
Ancient weapon setbonus +450 power.
Offense slots in ancient weapon, 370 power.
Changing my 2 defensive ring to offensive is +300 power and +370 from their sockets.
Summa +2390 power.
Now let's add +300 from Rising hope.
Plus let's be generous and say 25% from LS is up. That's another 1750 power.
So in total fully buffed I could have 4440 more power. That's 2,6 times more than what my pet gave me and that was a 100 heal plus, so let's add 260 more heal to that D HW.
Meaning that fully buffed and without pet D HW initial heal heals for around 2060 HP.
A Whopping 2k heal in maxed power gear.
Let's add 10% more since I didn't use Deepstone Blessing:
2266!
Now double this when you crit with 100% severity. 4532 initial heal.
So let's be clear on this: With a full T2, ancient weapon set, rank 7 enchants, normal Vorpal, max power DC, having munkey's build and all the procs he can hope for, the initial heal of your Divine Healing Word crits around 4,5k on yourself in PvP.
For days I have been reading him on the forums and I believed I must'av missed something terribly huge since I never saw any heals that big. Not even on others, don't even mention through Righteousness.
Turns out he's a troll. I feel much better now.
I also do well in pugs and many clerics do too. But the fact is that we are wearing end gear, and we spent time thinking on our build.
But what with the people who just hit 60, who have poor gear, and a bad build because they had no idea how the end-game would be in this game ?
You can't say that everything in the cleric class is well designed because you are clearing 8300gs content with 11k GS and a cat, wearing end gear and using effective build.
The average casual player has none of these and feels that the class is obsolete.
I do agree that with a good gear and build the cleric is wonderful and very fun to play, but as I said I have end gear and I understand that the people with poor gear may have hard time clearing T2 content.
But the devs announced that the difficulty in dungeons was going to be toned down, so it might solve that issue.
@sogro: you sure you're using Healer's Lore with the tweak ? (+20% healing)
I had to go out and test whether munkey's claims had any ground.
I have 11,8k GS
Weapon end dmg is 784 and unbuffed I have 5982 power.
D HW initial heal heals me for 1901.
Ofc in PvP there is no pet,
W/O pet I have 4303 power.
D HW initial heal heals me for 1803.
So the 1700 power from pet gives +100 on the initial tick.
Now let's see what i can improve on my char.
Ancient weapon +33 healing and dmg which is equivalent with 900 power.
Ancient weapon setbonus +450 power.
Offense slots in ancient weapon, 370 power.
Changing my 2 defensive ring to offensive is +300 power and +370 from their sockets.
Summa +2390 power.
Now let's add +300 from Rising hope.
Plus let's be generous and say 25% from LS is up. That's another 1750 power.
So in total fully buffed I could have 4440 more power. That's 2,6 times more than what my pet gave me and that was a 100 heal plus, so let's add 260 more heal to that D HW.
Meaning that fully buffed and without pet D HW initial heal heals for around 2060 HP.
A Whopping 2k heal in maxed power gear.
Let's add 10% more since I didn't use Deepstone Blessing:
2266!
Now double this when you crit with 100% severity. 4532 initial heal.
So let's be clear on this: With a full T2, ancient weapon set, rank 7 enchants, normal Vorpal, max power DC, having munkey's build and all the procs he can hope for, the initial heal of your Divine Healing Word crits around 4,5k on yourself in PvP.
For days I have been reading him on the forums and I believed I must'av missed something terribly huge since I never saw any heals that big. Not even on others, don't even mention through Righteousness.
Turns out he's a troll. I feel much better now.
/shrug Good job on your math.
My biggest single crit heal on a healing word/divine is 13.5k to party member, and just under 11k to self.
Also, I've stated before, those were my "biggest" crits. Kinda like a 51k crit with Ice Knife pre patch for my CW, but her normals are around 19k. Normal crit heals with divine for me are around 4-7k crits.
I have nowhere near the silly gear that you mentioned, and without my cat my power is 4848, and crit is 2306. Stop doing math, your bad at it.
Finally done with my job and I will be going home, and able to make some videos.
Always makes me laugh when people arent able to replicate what someone else does, and constantly go for flames and calling them trolls.
Very curious what kind of silly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is going to spew out of your mouth when I post videos
DC should be replaced by a dinosaur class. DC is not needed in this game and is lore-breaking. Healing is not needed when dinosaurs become involved. They will kill everything in their paths. More dinosaurs please...
@munkey: If you make the videos and they verify your numbers, I'm not gonna "spew silly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of my mouth", I'm gonna admit that I made a mistake somewhere. Until then, I remain skeptical because the math and my own test says that something is seriously off with your numbers.
Concerning the replication, I only lack Deepstone Blessing compared to you, and I counted that one in.
I'm a power gimped 11,9k DC and my crit D HW initial tick heals me for 3,8k with pet, lower without pet.
The difference between our gears and builds can in no way account for mine healing for 50% less than yours.
You are either remembering wrong, or some non-DC party buff is off the scale.
Oh BTW the UI adds up heals that happen at the same time, like that 3,8k crit D HW initial tick consists of 2,8k initial tick and 1k first tick of HW HoT both happening at the same time. Maybe MH 4/4 gets added to this as well. That could ramp this number up around 5k, but still not 7k.
Maybe something else also procs at the same time, I don't know. Or maybe not a proc but another HoT you put out ticks at the same time and gets added.
I should stop thinking anyways, your video about it will clear things up.
Oh BTW the UI adds up heals that happen at the same time, like that 3,8k crit D HW initial tick consists of 2,8k initial tick and 1k first tick of HW HoT both happening at the same time. Maybe MH 4/4 gets added to this as well. That could ramp this number up around 5k, but still not 7k.
Maybe something else also procs at the same time, I don't know. Or maybe not a proc but another HoT you put out ticks at the same time and gets added.
I should stop thinking anyways, your video about it will clear things up.
Be sure to check your combat log tho!
I bet the video will never materialize. :rolleyes:
As far as taking a 23k crit to the face. Thats not even remotely a valid point. I've hit people for 32k with Ice Knife on my CW. Does that mean that there class is broken too? I think not, its obvious the dmg from certain class's abilities in this game need to be toned down. It has absolutely nothing to do with the cleric class whatsoever.
Now your just being stupid. Of course the CW is broken with 32k ! It's ONE SHOT already....Go back to your cave troll
Now your just being stupid. Of course the CW is broken with 32k ! It's ONE SHOT already....Go back to your cave troll
the cleric needs help even if damage is scaled down on the other classes... so many players are able to avoid the cleric's knock back and freeze attacks and hammer of fate on some characters barely move some players health bars even when it isn't blocked (and it does get blocked a lot).... basically, if a cleric is hit one time by classes that control or freeze the cleric is dead without being able to do anything if gone after and outside of hammer the cleric doesn't have anything strong that kills... the defense on a cleric is a joke compared to melee classes and clerics in D&D have always been fighters, why shouldn't clerics be tankish? if they slot heals in PvE and have adds go after them they can't defend themselves and in PvP everyone goes after the clerics which means of all classes in PvP clerics need defense the most (not the least)
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Dc is the worst class in pvp at this time. I have no heal to defend against 23k crit in the face and my dmg is very puny, although I selected the virtuous path.
Either you fix the DC or nerf the troublemakers of pvp.
And for those that disagree... PLAY A DC TO SEE IT FOR YOURSELF!!!!
P.S PVE is hell as well. Every time I have to run from even the lowlife of adds just to survive. NOT HEAL MYSELF OR TEAMMATES but to survive..
It's time to learn how to itemize for PvP .
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
in PvE a cleric needs to make it abundantly clear that if the team wants them to heal or even use AS that someone needs to stick with the cleric to handle the adds (if the team isn't up for that, I don't use AS and let the team die and when they figure out their only chance at finishing is to cover the cleric then I'll use AS and have an easy time)
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
in PvE a cleric needs to make it abundantly clear that if the team wants them to heal or even use AS that someone needs to stick with the cleric to handle the adds (if the team isn't up for that, I don't use AS and let the team die and when they figure out their only chance at finishing is to cover the cleric then I'll use AS and have an easy time)
Why did you quote me ? Your post has nothing to do with what I just posted .
Also your experience with PuG groups is not important .
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
Why did you quote me ? Your post has nothing to do with what I just posted .
Also your experience with PuG groups is not important .
I meant to quote the entire post not just your post. Threads are set up so when you reply with quote it only quotes the last poster's quote and not everything that they quoted (hate that).
This game is designed to make as much money as possible on a day to day basis. It is not designed to be a great long term game.
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flynnieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited July 2013
I played a cleric in pvp... and let me say Clerics are NOT made for dealing damage they are made to heal. As far as getting 23k crit.. my guess is that it was a sin using a daily power.(I often one shot CW and Clerics with it) Clerics have healing word and what does that do? I heal the person AND myself! Imagine if you keep that on you all the time.. plus damage resistance class skill and a null 1 attack every 40 seconds class skill. Take into account casting time and secondary effects of your skills. As far as adds attacking clerics that has much less to do with the cleric itself and more to do with your party are brainless.. tank that can't hold a mark / sins that solely attack the boss and nothing else / CW's that have don't use CC skills. Take your pick.
Personally I like using:
Sun Burst
Forge Masters Flame
Astral Shield
Astral Seal
Sacred Flame
Ironically I see a lot more Clerics that just stand there not using at wills just using astral shield not even dodging out of the way. I would say half the time dungeons fail because of the cleric not healing but rather not build divinity through at wills.
I posted on yet another QQ baby post crying over their inability to to learn their class.;)
First quite a fiew are of me just showing healing in PvP. Made no attempt to hide deaths or bad matches. All are solo Q', as well as more uploading, and also videos of my CW.
Soon will be uploading Guild premades, and many more pugs
Quality isnt bad
Enjoy!
0
marclovesvinaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited July 2013
I'm playing a DC and I have no problems with it on PVE or PVP. If you complain about this, you have a problem how you use the class.
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marclovesvinaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
I vote delete the class and give us the ranger already
Then dungeons will be very ****ing super duper hard. :P
Think bro. THINK!
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blackjaguar87Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited July 2013
DC are very special class. Having the ability to heal is priceless in dungeons and the heal support can make a GF or GWF almost immortal.. True that DC are out classed by GFs or GWFs in one on one but PvP is a team battle so with the correct strategy, DC can be a game changer.
You may think that DC's offense is very weak. in some part, it is (compared to other classes), but with the right skillset and feats, DC can even defeat CWs and TRs on a 1 on 1 fight.. I manage to have a 10 kill win before in PvP (http://i.imgur.com/q7SOjfO.jpg)
I am full pvp armor neck purple rings purple rest blue and all rank 5 enchantments so I'm not so poorly dressed for pvp. It's not my fault for the 23k crits or the fact skill is useless in this game when your wallet has more recognition.
I'm playing a DC and I have no problems with it on PVE or PVP. If you complain about this, you have a problem how you use the class.
I don't know if you played this game much. In pve epic all the adds focus the cleric , team is stuck up to it's neck of adds as well , cleric dies a shameful death( even with potions...rightenous sucks). In pvp you get throned by gf , by the time you get up ur dead, perma stealth rogues finish you off and you can't do much against them, GWF in unstoppable -_- ..
If they buff heals or remove righteousness, you better call the cleric class the god class, because dying would mean the player is completely incompetent.
Thinking the class is weak is really arrogant. It means you can't fail at something.
We wouldn't want that because then we would sound like Great Weapon Fighters and get a much undeserved buff.
0
osciniMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
DC are very special class. Having the ability to heal is priceless in dungeons and the heal support can make a GF or GWF almost immortal.. True that DC are out classed by GFs or GWFs in one on one but PvP is a team battle so with the correct strategy, DC can be a game changer.
You may think that DC's offense is very weak. in some part, it is (compared to other classes), but with the right skillset and feats, DC can even defeat CWs and TRs on a 1 on 1 fight.. I manage to have a 10 kill win before in PvP (http://i.imgur.com/q7SOjfO.jpg)
GF and GWF are already immortal, lets just buff up the DC healing abilities and make this class more enjoyable. The only reason players think that it is enjoyable is because they want to play a healing class and just trying to convince themselves that this class is fine because it is the only choice.
First quite a fiew are of me just showing healing in PvP. Made no attempt to hide deaths or bad matches. All are solo Q', as well as more uploading, and also videos of my CW.
Soon will be uploading Guild premades, and many more pugs
Quality isnt bad
Enjoy!
I watched a few of your vids out of curiosity. What did I saw...You die faster than me even with your full purple and all other enchants. Learn to dodge or maybe the cleric isn't that op as you suggested ?
A word of advice from a "****" player . USE AS IN DIVINE MODE FOR REGENERATION!!!!
P.S That stupid table doesn't mean your the best ...
Comments
I have 11,8k GS
Weapon end dmg is 784 and unbuffed I have 5982 power.
D HW initial heal heals me for 1901.
Ofc in PvP there is no pet,
W/O pet I have 4303 power.
D HW initial heal heals me for 1803.
So the 1700 power from pet gives +100 on the initial tick.
Now let's see what i can improve on my char.
Ancient weapon +33 healing and dmg which is equivalent with 900 power.
Ancient weapon setbonus +450 power.
Offense slots in ancient weapon, 370 power.
Changing my 2 defensive ring to offensive is +300 power and +370 from their sockets.
Summa +2390 power.
Now let's add +300 from Rising hope.
Plus let's be generous and say 25% from LS is up. That's another 1750 power.
So in total fully buffed I could have 4440 more power. That's 2,6 times more than what my pet gave me and that was a 100 heal plus, so let's add 260 more heal to that D HW.
Meaning that fully buffed and without pet D HW initial heal heals for around 2060 HP.
A Whopping 2k heal in maxed power gear.
Let's add 10% more since I didn't use Deepstone Blessing:
2266!
Now double this when you crit with 100% severity. 4532 initial heal.
So let's be clear on this:
With a full T2, ancient weapon set, rank 7 enchants, normal Vorpal, max power DC, having munkey's build and all the procs he can hope for, the initial heal of your Divine Healing Word crits around 4,5k on yourself in PvP.
For days I have been reading him on the forums and I believed I must'av missed something terribly huge since I never saw any heals that big. Not even on others, don't even mention through Righteousness.
Turns out he's a troll. I feel much better now.
But what with the people who just hit 60, who have poor gear, and a bad build because they had no idea how the end-game would be in this game ?
You can't say that everything in the cleric class is well designed because you are clearing 8300gs content with 11k GS and a cat, wearing end gear and using effective build.
The average casual player has none of these and feels that the class is obsolete.
I do agree that with a good gear and build the cleric is wonderful and very fun to play, but as I said I have end gear and I understand that the people with poor gear may have hard time clearing T2 content.
But the devs announced that the difficulty in dungeons was going to be toned down, so it might solve that issue.
@sogro: you sure you're using Healer's Lore with the tweak ? (+20% healing)
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
/shrug Good job on your math.
My biggest single crit heal on a healing word/divine is 13.5k to party member, and just under 11k to self.
Also, I've stated before, those were my "biggest" crits. Kinda like a 51k crit with Ice Knife pre patch for my CW, but her normals are around 19k. Normal crit heals with divine for me are around 4-7k crits.
I have nowhere near the silly gear that you mentioned, and without my cat my power is 4848, and crit is 2306. Stop doing math, your bad at it.
Finally done with my job and I will be going home, and able to make some videos.
Always makes me laugh when people arent able to replicate what someone else does, and constantly go for flames and calling them trolls.
Very curious what kind of silly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is going to spew out of your mouth when I post videos
Until then, cheers!
DC should be replaced by a dinosaur class. DC is not needed in this game and is lore-breaking. Healing is not needed when dinosaurs become involved. They will kill everything in their paths. More dinosaurs please...
@munkey: If you make the videos and they verify your numbers, I'm not gonna "spew silly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of my mouth", I'm gonna admit that I made a mistake somewhere. Until then, I remain skeptical because the math and my own test says that something is seriously off with your numbers.
Concerning the replication, I only lack Deepstone Blessing compared to you, and I counted that one in.
I'm a power gimped 11,9k DC and my crit D HW initial tick heals me for 3,8k with pet, lower without pet.
The difference between our gears and builds can in no way account for mine healing for 50% less than yours.
You are either remembering wrong, or some non-DC party buff is off the scale.
GL with those videos, I'm very eager to see them!
Maybe something else also procs at the same time, I don't know. Or maybe not a proc but another HoT you put out ticks at the same time and gets added.
I should stop thinking anyways, your video about it will clear things up.
Be sure to check your combat log tho!
I bet the video will never materialize. :rolleyes:
Now your just being stupid. Of course the CW is broken with 32k ! It's ONE SHOT already....Go back to your cave troll
the cleric needs help even if damage is scaled down on the other classes... so many players are able to avoid the cleric's knock back and freeze attacks and hammer of fate on some characters barely move some players health bars even when it isn't blocked (and it does get blocked a lot).... basically, if a cleric is hit one time by classes that control or freeze the cleric is dead without being able to do anything if gone after and outside of hammer the cleric doesn't have anything strong that kills... the defense on a cleric is a joke compared to melee classes and clerics in D&D have always been fighters, why shouldn't clerics be tankish? if they slot heals in PvE and have adds go after them they can't defend themselves and in PvP everyone goes after the clerics which means of all classes in PvP clerics need defense the most (not the least)
It's time to learn how to itemize for PvP .
in PvE a cleric needs to make it abundantly clear that if the team wants them to heal or even use AS that someone needs to stick with the cleric to handle the adds (if the team isn't up for that, I don't use AS and let the team die and when they figure out their only chance at finishing is to cover the cleric then I'll use AS and have an easy time)
Why did you quote me ? Your post has nothing to do with what I just posted .
Also your experience with PuG groups is not important .
I meant to quote the entire post not just your post. Threads are set up so when you reply with quote it only quotes the last poster's quote and not everything that they quoted (hate that).
I think the ranger is going to slaughter the cleric in PvP and likely CW's as well.
I vote for you to never breed.
your mom loves it
Personally I like using:
Sun Burst
Forge Masters Flame
Astral Shield
Astral Seal
Sacred Flame
Ironically I see a lot more Clerics that just stand there not using at wills just using astral shield not even dodging out of the way. I would say half the time dungeons fail because of the cleric not healing but rather not build divinity through at wills.
I posted on yet another QQ baby post crying over their inability to to learn their class.;)
Started uploading videos.
First quite a fiew are of me just showing healing in PvP. Made no attempt to hide deaths or bad matches. All are solo Q', as well as more uploading, and also videos of my CW.
Soon will be uploading Guild premades, and many more pugs
Quality isnt bad
Enjoy!
Then dungeons will be very ****ing super duper hard. :P
Think bro. THINK!
You may think that DC's offense is very weak. in some part, it is (compared to other classes), but with the right skillset and feats, DC can even defeat CWs and TRs on a 1 on 1 fight.. I manage to have a 10 kill win before in PvP (http://i.imgur.com/q7SOjfO.jpg)
I am full pvp armor neck purple rings purple rest blue and all rank 5 enchantments so I'm not so poorly dressed for pvp. It's not my fault for the 23k crits or the fact skill is useless in this game when your wallet has more recognition.
I don't know if you played this game much. In pve epic all the adds focus the cleric , team is stuck up to it's neck of adds as well , cleric dies a shameful death( even with potions...rightenous sucks). In pvp you get throned by gf , by the time you get up ur dead, perma stealth rogues finish you off and you can't do much against them, GWF in unstoppable -_- ..
Yes the lack of AS must be very disturbing since this was cleric all reduced to..
Really?! And where is that competent player ? And is he really that good or does his wallet speak for himself ?
We wouldn't want that because then we would sound like Great Weapon Fighters and get a much undeserved buff.
GF and GWF are already immortal, lets just buff up the DC healing abilities and make this class more enjoyable. The only reason players think that it is enjoyable is because they want to play a healing class and just trying to convince themselves that this class is fine because it is the only choice.
I watched a few of your vids out of curiosity. What did I saw...You die faster than me even with your full purple and all other enchants. Learn to dodge or maybe the cleric isn't that op as you suggested ?
A word of advice from a "****" player . USE AS IN DIVINE MODE FOR REGENERATION!!!!
P.S That stupid table doesn't mean your the best ...