@Yasha00 I've played MMO's since Ultima Online and in the majority of them, NO you can't get stunlocked to death. This includes WoW, LotrO, Rift, SWTOR, EQ and EQ2 and the list goes on and on.
Obviously you are lying because you can get stunlocked to death in WoW and Rift. People were always whining about rogues stunlocking to death in Rift.
Rift- I played every class to level cap (mainly levelling through pvp) but started on rogue and liked the stunlock build-here is how you can get 8 secs of stun- in a team the target should be dead well before that:
"Paralyzing Strike (Stealth) - Points Required: 16 Ability Info: Deals damage out of stealth and paralyzes the target for 4 seconds. This can be used to set up a stun lock. With foul play, you could have up to 8 seconds to hammer your target's back. For most targets, that's enough time to kill outright or significantly tip the scales in your favor." (from http://www.carlsguides.com/rift/rogue/assassin/) I played a similar build it was fun).
The several other games I have played also allowed several classes builds to stunlock/instagib players. Once you know the mechanics of such instagib/stunlock classes it is generally not so hard to avoid getting smashed, and such builds usually have to sacrifice a lot and are one-trick ponies (easy to exploit their weaknesses).
I have not played Ultima Online, LotrO, SWTOR, EQ and EQ2 or the "list goes on and on" (strange name for a game) so perhaps those games do not have a stunlock mechanic like you say.
WAIT! I just realized the issue. You played a cleric in Rift and wow too right? If so then yes, in those games it is probably impossible for you to be killed unless 3-plus dps gank you or you are severely out-geared. Note that in NW DC's are pretty hard to kill pre-level sixty as well, and I've met many that can tank 2-3 people for a while. The issue is the crazy damage scaling/enchants at level cap, not the mechanics of the classes.
So in essence your solution is don't be a cleric and don't PvP in a pickup group? There should already be separate ques for premades and pickups (again cryptic is late to the party on that).
How about a timer on CC or if you don't like that some CC breaking abilities for every class like every other MMO post 2004 has? I know to much to ask for, I mean this isn't rocket science...there are games they can look to that do it, do it well and they just need to follow what works for the most part.
Seems strange. Are you at cap? I find most clerics complaining about prone stunlocking GF rather than some fabled 5 CW pack. If you had 5CW up against a DC and GF GWF and some TR then they are gonna lose.
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kellian11Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Obviously you are lying because you can get stunlocked to death in WoW and Rift. People were always whining about rogues stunlocking to death in Rift.
Rift- I played every class to level cap (mainly levelling through pvp) but started on rogue and liked the stunlock build-here is how you can get 8 secs of stun- in a team the target should be dead well before that:
"Paralyzing Strike (Stealth) - Points Required: 16 Ability Info: Deals damage out of stealth and paralyzes the target for 4 seconds. This can be used to set up a stun lock. With foul play, you could have up to 8 seconds to hammer your target's back. For most targets, that's enough time to kill outright or significantly tip the scales in your favor." (from http://www.carlsguides.com/rift/rogue/assassin/) I played a similar build it was fun).
The several other games I have played also allowed several classes builds to stunlock/instagib players. Once you know the mechanics of such instagib/stunlock classes it is generally not so hard to avoid getting smashed, and such builds usually have to sacrifice a lot and are one-trick ponies (easy to exploit their weaknesses).
I have not played Ultima Online, LotrO, SWTOR, EQ and EQ2 or the "list goes on and on" (strange name for a game) so perhaps those games do not have a stunlock mechanic like you say.
WAIT! I just realized the issue. You played a cleric in Rift and wow too right? If so then yes, in those games it is probably impossible for you to be killed unless 3-plus dps gank you or you are severely out-geared. Note that in NW DC's are pretty hard to kill pre-level sixty as well, and I've met many that can tank 2-3 people for a while. The issue is the crazy damage scaling/enchants at level cap, not the mechanics of the classes.
You seem to have conveniently left out the part where I mention in each of these games if you get stunned you had an ability to get out of it, thereby allowing you a tactical way to get out of being stunned....something this game does not have.
So your examples here are dead wrong because if your stun breaker is not on cool down you can get out of each of the scenarios you describe here, especially in WoW (since this seems to be the main example you guys are giving). You had at least 2 different way to get out of stuns in that game, you had you ability/skill and items. This game you have nothing. If you got stunlocked to death in WoW or Rift it was either you stun breakers were on cooldown (items and skills) or you failed to use them. Here you don't even have that option.
So again I'm still waiting to here an explanation for this? So far all I have heard is l2p, other games you can get stunned in (again not the issue), or calling it a whine thread. I will say it again because you either willfully ignored this part of just didn't see it last time i wrote it. In other games you have the ability if stunned to get out of being stunned (either abilities or items and in some cases multiple ways) this game has nothing. It's archaic in it's design and I'm not sure how anyone with any history of PvP in other games can defend such a system.
You seem to have conveniently left out the part where I mention in each of these games if you get stunned you had an ability to get out of it, thereby allowing you a tactical way to get out of being stunned....something this game does not have.
So your examples here are dead wrong because if your stun breaker is not on cool down you can get out of each of the scenarios you describe here, especially in WoW (since this seems to be the main example you guys are giving). You had at least 2 different way to get out of stuns in that game, you had you ability/skill and items. This game you have nothing. If you got stunlocked to death in WoW or Rift it was either you stun breakers were on cooldown (items and skills) or you failed to use them. Here you don't even have that option.
So again I'm still waiting to here an explanation for this? So far all I have heard is l2p, other games you can get stunned in (again not the issue), or calling it a whine thread. I will say it again because you either willfully ignored this part of just didn't see it last time i wrote it. In other games you have the ability if stunned to get out of being stunned (either abilities or items and in some cases multiple ways) this game has nothing. It's archaic in it's design and I'm not sure how anyone with any history of PvP in other games can defend such a system.
And you seem to have conveniently forgotten that you also have abilities to get out of/become invulnerable to stun/cc in NW, a pro-active skill to avoid cc on a short CD, and body blocking mechanic that allows you to avoid cc; plus the CC in NW is generally very short. All this has already been stated in above posts. The cc removal item in wow was on a 2 min CD- it was very easy to bait this and then cc.
I even took the effort to give you links to show that you can be stunlocked in wow and rift (since you obviously haven't played pvp in those games).
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kellian11Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And you seem to have conveniently forgotten that you also have abilities to get out of/become invulnerable to stun/cc in NW, a pro-active skill to avoid cc on a short CD, and body blocking mechanic that allows you to avoid cc; plus the CC in NW is generally very short. All this has already been stated in above posts. The cc removal item in wow was on a 2 min CD- it was very easy to bait this and then cc.
I even took the effort to give you links to show that you can be stunlocked in wow and rift (since you obviously haven't played pvp in those games).
You're obviously trolling now because a reasonable person could not possibly compare the stun avoid ability in this game to the stun removal abilities and items in other games (see what i did there?).
You're obviously trolling now because a reasonable person could not possibly compare the stun avoid ability in this game to the stun removal abilities and items in other games (see what i did there?).
Yes I see what you did. You demonstrated that you are not skilled enough to read the skill animations, anticipate player actions, or position yourself properly in NW, and instead of trying to get better you decided to have a whinge about it on the forums.
The timer i mean is let's say a 5 second debuff so you can't be chain stunlocked right away. I've played other games that have this. Not saying this one has to have it, but there certainly needs to be something to prevent total loss of control of your character till you die.
Yes, this is exactly what I've been saying. A small immunity between CCs so you are not CC locked to death. And it's more than just a CW, GWFs can do the same and rogues have the potential for it though I haven't seen any actually do it, but face more than one class that has CCs and you are dead without being able to do a darn thing.
Someone mentioned the chains on CD but that really sucks in pvp and lasts only a second or two.
Yes I see what you did. You demonstrated that you are not skilled enough to read the skill animations, anticipate player actions, or position yourself properly in NW, and instead of trying to get better you decided to have a whinge about it on the forums.
You realize most can't be dodged, like the Force choke on CW and that one GWF has (dunno the name of it)? The TR Dazing Strike can be dodge if they aren't fighting from stealth, the Smoke Bomb less so. Even so, trying to dodge multiple people is nigh impossible since you one out of stamina very quickly.
You realize most can't be dodged, like the Force choke on CW and that one GWF has (dunno the name of it)? The TR Dazing Strike can be dodge if they aren't fighting from stealth, the Smoke Bomb less so. Even so, trying to dodge multiple people is nigh impossible since you one out of stamina very quickly.
Well first lets be clear about the definition of "most". How many cc spells are in the game and how many can't be dodged?
Second, if I dodge as a CW casts EF it will miss, so yes you can dodge it.
Third, yes if multiple people coordinate their cc you are likely to get cc'd, same as in any game.
NW actually has many ways to avoid CC, and the cc in the game is very brief. You tend to die very fast at level-cap because of how damage scales, but below-60 you are unlikely to get "stunlocked to death" often unless you are really out of position.
My issue is you die without having any control of your character. If you can name another successful game that has PvP and has this please I'm all ears. Every other MMO out there has some sort of mechanism where you can't get stun locked till you die In PvP. It's archaic not to have such a mechanism in place.
I don't know if anyone responded to this part yet, but Lineage 2 had this when last I played. Also, did you never get stun locked by a single rogue in WoW? SWTOR...please son, you can lock down people in that game too.
Your problem is that you come here and expect sympathy when you start off QQ about 4v1.
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kellian11Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't know if anyone responded to this part yet, but Lineage 2 had this when last I played. Also, did you never get stun locked by a single rogue in WoW? SWTOR...please son, you can lock down people in that game too.
Your problem is that you come here and expect sympathy when you start off QQ about 4v1.
You know for a D&D game I would expect people to more thoroughly read what people write before commenting.
What I actually wrote was the game was 4v5 and I said multiple (meaning 2 CW). Where you got 4v1 is beyond me...and I never played Lineage 2 so can't comment about something I never played. And you can read the previous comments about WoW rogues.
I have cw and gf my bro have tr and dc i think there is a balance !!! sometimes lose somethimes win its obvius that tr,cw,gf are wining with dc 1vs1. In pvp ppl target heler not a tank its also obvius. Dont be mad for random pvp partys they just dont defend Heler as they should. PS Tank and Heal on pvp when well played are almost unkilable. and one more what u ppl want to dc kils DPS classes in 1v1 ?
You know for a D&D game I would expect people to more thoroughly read what people write before commenting.
What I actually wrote was the game was 4v5 and I said multiple (meaning 2 CW). Where you got 4v1 is beyond me...and I never played Lineage 2 so can't comment about something I never played. And you can read the previous comments about WoW rogues.
We would expect the same from you. I've read a lot of replies and you've glossed over most of them. In a 4v5 match, I can't help you...this happens all the time to me as well. Sure ok...maybe it was 2v1 or 3v1 or 4v1...hell if could have been 5v1 idk because all you said was "multiple." That doesn't change the fact that many people have listed games where multiple enemies can wtfpwn you with a vengeance...all while you're SoL because they've locked you.
That being said, yes I agree is sucks big time, but I have multiple chars here and even though my Cleric gets locked all the time, my CW can return the favor to other people.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
We would expect the same from you. I've read a lot of replies and you've glossed over most of them. In a 4v5 match, I can't help you...this happens all the time to me as well. Sure ok...maybe it was 2v1 or 3v1 or 4v1...hell if could have been 5v1 idk because all you said was "multiple." That doesn't change the fact that many people have listed games where multiple enemies can wtfpwn you with a vengeance...all while you're SoL because they've locked you.
That being said, yes I agree is sucks big time, but I have multiple chars here and even though my Cleric gets locked all the time, my CW can return the favor to other people.
See this is what I mean about reading thoroughly? Where have I made this about class or CW? I was simply stating for a point of fact class I was playing. I never said this class needed a buff or this one needed a nerf, as a matter of fact I said no class should be able to stunlock another endlessly.
I'm also pretty sure in each case someone mentioned a game I mentioned there was a mechanic to get out of the stun once in it in said game (hence why this system is, as i said, archaic.) Be it an ability, item or whatever else the mechanic was. Something this game doesn't have. Not sure how that is so hard to understand. This game simply doesn't have it...and it needs it, that is the point.
How this could be misunderstood as an anti this class or that or CW stinks is beyond me.
That's all I really have to say on the matter. A team with multiple CW (also 4 v 5) basically once they were on you, you were dead without even having a fighting chance or being able to have control of your character. Best you could do was watch your health go bye bye.
Fun times
I agree with you; and as you said many other games have shared diminishing returns for the same kind of CC. Others will say otherwise, they just have no idea, F2P are full of them.
I don't know how it works in D&D 4e, but I really doubt that it'd be possible to stunlock anything/anyone to death. I'd really like to hear how it works from someone who knows about it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The harder the game, the better."
You realize most can't be dodged, like the Force choke on CW and that one GWF has (dunno the name of it)? The TR Dazing Strike can be dodge if they aren't fighting from stealth, the Smoke Bomb less so. Even so, trying to dodge multiple people is nigh impossible since you one out of stamina very quickly.
Every CC can be dodged and I have seen my EF to be dodged by CWs, DCs and TRs alike. GF can be immune while Shield Block is up and GWFs can pop their Immunity to avoid it.
I agree with you; and as you said many other games have shared diminishing returns for the same kind of CC. Others will say otherwise, they just have no idea, F2P are full of them.
I don't know how it works in D&D 4e, but I really doubt that it'd be possible to stunlock anything/anyone to death. I'd really like to hear how it works from someone who knows about it.
It was easily possible to stunlock to death in D&D 2nd and 3rd edition, especially in 3rd with the coup de grace rule which basically meant instant death if you get hit while being disabled so in regards to that NWO is quite tame. There also many more instant death spells and rules available like instant death at 50+ damage regardless of max HP.
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kellian11Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I would also like to point out that P&P D&D was ALWAYS up to the DM's discretion. When you have an MMO the DM discretion goes out the window. More than a few times, to keep the flow of the story, a finger of death saving throw was made (even after a failed die role), by the players. Can't really do that in a computer game as the rules are what they area.
So P&P D&D isn't always as black and white as you make it seem here.
I would also like to point out that P&P D&D was ALWAYS up to the DM's discretion. When you have an MMO the DM discretion goes out the window. More than a few times, to keep the flow of the story, a finger of death saving throw was made (even after a failed die role), by the players. Can't really do that in a computer game as the rules are what they area.
So P&P D&D isn't always as black and white as you make it seem here.
a cRPG always is very limited that why it is bad to compare it in any shape or form with P&P and we are decades away from technology which could even try to approach the freedom and creativity of a good dungeon master.
See this is what I mean about reading thoroughly? Where have I made this about class or CW? I was simply stating for a point of fact class I was playing. I never said this class needed a buff or this one needed a nerf, as a matter of fact I said no class should be able to stunlock another endlessly.
I'm also pretty sure in each case someone mentioned a game I mentioned there was a mechanic to get out of the stun once in it in said game (hence why this system is, as i said, archaic.) Be it an ability, item or whatever else the mechanic was. Something this game doesn't have. Not sure how that is so hard to understand. This game simply doesn't have it...and it needs it, that is the point.
How this could be misunderstood as an anti this class or that or CW stinks is beyond me.
Yet once again you gloss over replies, as you claim I am doing. Please show me where I called out CW? Maybe you didn't read that I have a cleric and I have a cw and I simply stated that my CW can lock people if I so choose. My TR and GWF and GF cannot because they are not high enough to have those fun skills. Please adhere to your own advise and actually read.
Yes, you have pointed out that some of these listed games have functions to stop/prevent being locked, but so have people mentioned functionality in this game that stops/prevents being locked. Yet again...you choose to ignore it. If you refuse to acknowledge the information that has been presented to you by multiple people than there is no point in discussing this further. Good day to you.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
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kellian11Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yet once again you gloss over replies, as you claim I am doing. Please show me where I called out CW? Maybe you didn't read that I have a cleric and I have a cw and I simply stated that my CW can lock people if I so choose. My TR and GWF and GF cannot because they are not high enough to have those fun skills. Please adhere to your own advise and actually read.
Yes, you have pointed out that some of these listed games have functions to stop/prevent being locked, but so have people mentioned functionality in this game that stops/prevents being locked. Yet again...you choose to ignore it. If you refuse to acknowledge the information that has been presented to you by multiple people than there is no point in discussing this further. Good day to you.
Let me state again...AGAIN. There are mechanisms in place in other games where ONCE YOU ARE STUNNED, you can get out of it. There is nothing like that in this game. There are mechanisms in other games where you cannot be endlessly stunlocked, there are diminishing returns (timers and such). There is nothing like that in this game.
I have said this over and over again, so I have no idea what you're talking about here. You feel like stunlocking is all good in this game, by all means...knock yourself out, it's your right to do so. I think it's total garbage at the moment to be perfectly frank, regardless of attacking or defending class, and isn't up to modern MMO standards (as I've mentioned multiple times previous).
So basically you are complaining that enemy CWs are doing their job correctly in PvP. Okay.
No he wasn't but as you are clearly not competent to realize when someone is addressing a valid issue perhaps you should stay off the forums and let the big kids handle this.
I agree with you; and as you said many other games have shared diminishing returns for the same kind of CC. Others will say otherwise, they just have no idea, F2P are full of them.
I don't know how it works in D&D 4e, but I really doubt that it'd be possible to stunlock anything/anyone to death. I'd really like to hear how it works from someone who knows about it.
It was easily possible to stunlock to death in D&D 2nd and 3rd edition, especially in 3rd with the coup de grace rule which basically meant instant death if you get hit while being disabled so in regards to that NWO is quite tame. There also many more instant death spells and rules available like instant death at 50+ damage regardless of max HP.
Alright, but I am talking about 4e, because this games is "based" on d&d 4e, so I'd like to know how it (CC - Diminishing Returns) works in there.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The harder the game, the better."
Let me state again...AGAIN. There are mechanisms in place in other games where ONCE YOU ARE STUNNED, you can get out of it. There is nothing like that in this game. There are mechanisms in other games where you cannot be endlessly stunlocked, there are diminishing returns (timers and such). There is nothing like that in this game.
I have said this over and over again, so I have no idea what you're talking about here. You feel like stunlocking is all good in this game, by all means...knock yourself out, it's your right to do so. I think it's total garbage at the moment to be perfectly frank, regardless of attacking or defending class, and isn't up to modern MMO standards (as I've mentioned multiple times previous).
Define "modern" standards. As I have already told you while other MMOs do have items or some sort of more universal CC breaker the CC in those games are far longer lasting and more crippling. Let us also not forget that they quite often have CC breakers inbuilt in certain classes or immunites to it same as in this game which sports Soulforged enchants and certain encounter powers against CC plus Shift move which enables 3 out of 5 classes to directly counter a CC move, one can get completely immune to any CC for a limited period of time via Shift and only GWF gets "only" slow immunity while having significantly reduced run speed.
Define "modern" standards. As I have already told you while other MMOs do have items or some sort of more universal CC breaker the CC in those games are far longer lasting and more crippling. Let us also not forget that they quite often have CC breakers inbuilt in certain classes or immunites to it same as in this game which sports Soulforged enchants and certain encounter powers against CC plus Shift move which enables 3 out of 5 classes to directly counter a CC move, one can get completely immune to any CC for a limited period of time via Shift and only GWF gets "only" slow immunity while having significantly reduced run speed.
The difference is that in NWO you kill much faster.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"The harder the game, the better."
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midoritlMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
So in essence your solution is don't be a cleric and don't PvP in a pickup group? There should already be separate ques for premades and pickups (again cryptic is late to the party on that).
You missed the memo that DCs are dead weight in PvP and should not be allowed to enter PvP areas for their own good. I've got a T1-T2 char of each class and DC is the only one that I never take PvPing because it's a waste of time and a burden on my team. Well I could do the minimum to not get flagged afk and collect my double AD daily but it's just too painful. Seriously, forget about being a healer in PvP. Sooner you accept that the dmg vs. healing setup in this game is broken and way too lopsided in favor of dmg and CC, and make another char for PvP, the better.
The difference is that in NWO you kill much faster.
Not really. Depending on current patch I was subject and did it myself burning enemies down in one 3 second stun so eh not NWO is not really special in that regard.
Comments
Obviously you are lying because you can get stunlocked to death in WoW and Rift. People were always whining about rogues stunlocking to death in Rift.
Rift- I played every class to level cap (mainly levelling through pvp) but started on rogue and liked the stunlock build-here is how you can get 8 secs of stun- in a team the target should be dead well before that:
"Paralyzing Strike (Stealth) - Points Required: 16 Ability Info: Deals damage out of stealth and paralyzes the target for 4 seconds. This can be used to set up a stun lock. With foul play, you could have up to 8 seconds to hammer your target's back. For most targets, that's enough time to kill outright or significantly tip the scales in your favor." (from http://www.carlsguides.com/rift/rogue/assassin/) I played a similar build it was fun).
WoW: I think they nerfed rogues recently but I sure as hell could stunlock people to death: random post whining about stunlocking like you do http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2842435022
The several other games I have played also allowed several classes builds to stunlock/instagib players. Once you know the mechanics of such instagib/stunlock classes it is generally not so hard to avoid getting smashed, and such builds usually have to sacrifice a lot and are one-trick ponies (easy to exploit their weaknesses).
I have not played Ultima Online, LotrO, SWTOR, EQ and EQ2 or the "list goes on and on" (strange name for a game) so perhaps those games do not have a stunlock mechanic like you say.
WAIT! I just realized the issue. You played a cleric in Rift and wow too right? If so then yes, in those games it is probably impossible for you to be killed unless 3-plus dps gank you or you are severely out-geared. Note that in NW DC's are pretty hard to kill pre-level sixty as well, and I've met many that can tank 2-3 people for a while. The issue is the crazy damage scaling/enchants at level cap, not the mechanics of the classes.
Seems strange. Are you at cap? I find most clerics complaining about prone stunlocking GF rather than some fabled 5 CW pack. If you had 5CW up against a DC and GF GWF and some TR then they are gonna lose.
You seem to have conveniently left out the part where I mention in each of these games if you get stunned you had an ability to get out of it, thereby allowing you a tactical way to get out of being stunned....something this game does not have.
So your examples here are dead wrong because if your stun breaker is not on cool down you can get out of each of the scenarios you describe here, especially in WoW (since this seems to be the main example you guys are giving). You had at least 2 different way to get out of stuns in that game, you had you ability/skill and items. This game you have nothing. If you got stunlocked to death in WoW or Rift it was either you stun breakers were on cooldown (items and skills) or you failed to use them. Here you don't even have that option.
So again I'm still waiting to here an explanation for this? So far all I have heard is l2p, other games you can get stunned in (again not the issue), or calling it a whine thread. I will say it again because you either willfully ignored this part of just didn't see it last time i wrote it. In other games you have the ability if stunned to get out of being stunned (either abilities or items and in some cases multiple ways) this game has nothing. It's archaic in it's design and I'm not sure how anyone with any history of PvP in other games can defend such a system.
And you seem to have conveniently forgotten that you also have abilities to get out of/become invulnerable to stun/cc in NW, a pro-active skill to avoid cc on a short CD, and body blocking mechanic that allows you to avoid cc; plus the CC in NW is generally very short. All this has already been stated in above posts. The cc removal item in wow was on a 2 min CD- it was very easy to bait this and then cc.
I even took the effort to give you links to show that you can be stunlocked in wow and rift (since you obviously haven't played pvp in those games).
You're obviously trolling now because a reasonable person could not possibly compare the stun avoid ability in this game to the stun removal abilities and items in other games (see what i did there?).
Yes I see what you did. You demonstrated that you are not skilled enough to read the skill animations, anticipate player actions, or position yourself properly in NW, and instead of trying to get better you decided to have a whinge about it on the forums.
Yes, this is exactly what I've been saying. A small immunity between CCs so you are not CC locked to death. And it's more than just a CW, GWFs can do the same and rogues have the potential for it though I haven't seen any actually do it, but face more than one class that has CCs and you are dead without being able to do a darn thing.
Someone mentioned the chains on CD but that really sucks in pvp and lasts only a second or two.
You realize most can't be dodged, like the Force choke on CW and that one GWF has (dunno the name of it)? The TR Dazing Strike can be dodge if they aren't fighting from stealth, the Smoke Bomb less so. Even so, trying to dodge multiple people is nigh impossible since you one out of stamina very quickly.
Well first lets be clear about the definition of "most". How many cc spells are in the game and how many can't be dodged?
Second, if I dodge as a CW casts EF it will miss, so yes you can dodge it.
Third, yes if multiple people coordinate their cc you are likely to get cc'd, same as in any game.
NW actually has many ways to avoid CC, and the cc in the game is very brief. You tend to die very fast at level-cap because of how damage scales, but below-60 you are unlikely to get "stunlocked to death" often unless you are really out of position.
Your problem is that you come here and expect sympathy when you start off QQ about 4v1.
- JailBreak (in development)
You know for a D&D game I would expect people to more thoroughly read what people write before commenting.
What I actually wrote was the game was 4v5 and I said multiple (meaning 2 CW). Where you got 4v1 is beyond me...and I never played Lineage 2 so can't comment about something I never played. And you can read the previous comments about WoW rogues.
"Not suffer from a permanent 40% self-healing debuff" would be nice.
That being said, yes I agree is sucks big time, but I have multiple chars here and even though my Cleric gets locked all the time, my CW can return the favor to other people.
- JailBreak (in development)
See this is what I mean about reading thoroughly? Where have I made this about class or CW? I was simply stating for a point of fact class I was playing. I never said this class needed a buff or this one needed a nerf, as a matter of fact I said no class should be able to stunlock another endlessly.
I'm also pretty sure in each case someone mentioned a game I mentioned there was a mechanic to get out of the stun once in it in said game (hence why this system is, as i said, archaic.) Be it an ability, item or whatever else the mechanic was. Something this game doesn't have. Not sure how that is so hard to understand. This game simply doesn't have it...and it needs it, that is the point.
How this could be misunderstood as an anti this class or that or CW stinks is beyond me.
I agree with you; and as you said many other games have shared diminishing returns for the same kind of CC. Others will say otherwise, they just have no idea, F2P are full of them.
I don't know how it works in D&D 4e, but I really doubt that it'd be possible to stunlock anything/anyone to death. I'd really like to hear how it works from someone who knows about it.
"The harder the game, the better."
Every CC can be dodged and I have seen my EF to be dodged by CWs, DCs and TRs alike. GF can be immune while Shield Block is up and GWFs can pop their Immunity to avoid it.
It was easily possible to stunlock to death in D&D 2nd and 3rd edition, especially in 3rd with the coup de grace rule which basically meant instant death if you get hit while being disabled so in regards to that NWO is quite tame. There also many more instant death spells and rules available like instant death at 50+ damage regardless of max HP.
So P&P D&D isn't always as black and white as you make it seem here.
a cRPG always is very limited that why it is bad to compare it in any shape or form with P&P and we are decades away from technology which could even try to approach the freedom and creativity of a good dungeon master.
Yes, you have pointed out that some of these listed games have functions to stop/prevent being locked, but so have people mentioned functionality in this game that stops/prevents being locked. Yet again...you choose to ignore it. If you refuse to acknowledge the information that has been presented to you by multiple people than there is no point in discussing this further. Good day to you.
- JailBreak (in development)
Let me state again...AGAIN. There are mechanisms in place in other games where ONCE YOU ARE STUNNED, you can get out of it. There is nothing like that in this game. There are mechanisms in other games where you cannot be endlessly stunlocked, there are diminishing returns (timers and such). There is nothing like that in this game.
I have said this over and over again, so I have no idea what you're talking about here. You feel like stunlocking is all good in this game, by all means...knock yourself out, it's your right to do so. I think it's total garbage at the moment to be perfectly frank, regardless of attacking or defending class, and isn't up to modern MMO standards (as I've mentioned multiple times previous).
No he wasn't but as you are clearly not competent to realize when someone is addressing a valid issue perhaps you should stay off the forums and let the big kids handle this.
Alright, but I am talking about 4e, because this games is "based" on d&d 4e, so I'd like to know how it (CC - Diminishing Returns) works in there.
"The harder the game, the better."
Define "modern" standards. As I have already told you while other MMOs do have items or some sort of more universal CC breaker the CC in those games are far longer lasting and more crippling. Let us also not forget that they quite often have CC breakers inbuilt in certain classes or immunites to it same as in this game which sports Soulforged enchants and certain encounter powers against CC plus Shift move which enables 3 out of 5 classes to directly counter a CC move, one can get completely immune to any CC for a limited period of time via Shift and only GWF gets "only" slow immunity while having significantly reduced run speed.
The difference is that in NWO you kill much faster.
"The harder the game, the better."
You missed the memo that DCs are dead weight in PvP and should not be allowed to enter PvP areas for their own good. I've got a T1-T2 char of each class and DC is the only one that I never take PvPing because it's a waste of time and a burden on my team. Well I could do the minimum to not get flagged afk and collect my double AD daily but it's just too painful. Seriously, forget about being a healer in PvP. Sooner you accept that the dmg vs. healing setup in this game is broken and way too lopsided in favor of dmg and CC, and make another char for PvP, the better.
Not really. Depending on current patch I was subject and did it myself burning enemies down in one 3 second stun so eh not NWO is not really special in that regard.