If having 4k+ recovery makes you feel better, feel free, but it isn't doing anything except lowering your dps and making your group kill trash/bosses slower.
I didn't recommend going 4k+ recovery, I just said it's not terrible if you already have it. Increasing recovery above 3.5k will still increase your dps and control as you recharge powers faster, however increasing some other stat like power/crit/arp will most likely be a better choice.
When I entangle a group of mobs and pop shield I have a full AP bar no matter if I have 3k recovery or 6k
Yeah but do you always use entangle on tab? I sure don't, mostly using CoI on tab where it becomes harder to build AP and in this case 3k+ recovery will not be completely in vain (still don't recommend going above 3.5k+ recovery)
His point is not that there isn't benefit to having 6k recovery over 3k, it's the opportunity cost of giving up other stats to get from 3k to 6k that he is talking about.
In other words, a CW with 3k recovery and 2.5k ARP will be generally more effective than 6k recovery and 250 ARP.
His point is not that there isn't benefit to having 6k recovery over 3k, it's the opportunity cost of giving up other stats to get from 3k to 6k that he is talking about.
In other words, a CW with 3k recovery and 2.5k ARP will be generally more effective than 6k recovery and 250 ARP.
To expand on this a little- think of it this way, if you change some things around, and one of your stats is pushed over the soft cap somewhat, don't panic, the world will not end. All this means is stop stacking that stat on purpose now, and add to other things which are useful and still below their soft caps thereafter.
This thread contains some valuable information for any CW.
As for the first response by fondlez....I have to say you clearly don't understand the concept. There is NO DIFFERENCE between a control oriented and a dps oriented CW -- they are one and the same. The fact that you say "control playstyles have high synergy with ledge pushing" is beyond idiotic. A cw with 2500 recovery can ledge just as well as a CW with 9000 recovery. However, that particular "cotrol oriented" CW that stacks recovery or some other bull**** stat deals nowhere near the damage that a CW with balanced offensive stats does. Period, end of story.
Also, I'm not sure if this was said somewhere in the thread: armor penetration is applied before all debuffs.
As a Thaumaturge CW with 12k+ Gearscore and High Vizier Set i can just agree in every point. Well written by lupita.
My Stats are currently 4k Power, 3,6k Recovery, 2,2k Armor Pen, and 1,8k Crit, 24,8k Life and 1,2k Defense (Without the Set Bonus).
This let me deal a high amount of dps while surviving the Aggro of the Trashpack.
Any tips on which is the best enchantment to use for weapons and armor?
Soulforged for Armor, Vorpal for weapon. Plaguefire is a cheaper alternative for your weapon, but only one person in your group really needs to be using it, and a Vorpal will net you higher personal dps.
There's been some talk about Lightning being good, but truth-be-told I haven't had the chance to test it yet.
I'm posting in bold to distinguish my text separately from the text that I'm quoting, but you're free to think whatever you wish.
/facepalm
No you do not distinquish your text from the text you posted, because this is done via the nice little darkbox and white borders around the text you quoted. You just want to look more important than you are. Your bold text is highly annoying to read and the impression that poster has of you is certainly shared by several other people. Furthermore your name is left of your text so it is very easy to know which text you wrote and which not undless one is a demented goldfish with a short term memory which lasts for nano seconds.
As to your arguments nothing new here this has been discussed to death in several other threads.
/facepalm
no you do not distinquish your text from the text you posted, because this is done via the nice little darkbox and white borders around the text you quoted. You just want to look more important than you are. Your bold text is highly annoying to read and the impression that poster has of you is certainly shared by several other people.
/facepalm
No you do not distinquish your text from the text you posted, because this is done via the nice little darkbox and white borders around the text you quoted. You just want to look more important than you are. Your bold text is highly annoying to read and the impression that poster has of you is certainly shared by several other people. Furthermore your name is left of your text so it is very easy to know which text you wrote and which not undless one is a demented goldfish with a short term memory which lasts for nano seconds.
As to your arguments nothing new here this has been discussed to death in several other threads.
Sorry you feel that way, however I assure you, this isn't my intention. I'd appreciate it if we could keep the posts constructive.
You say these topics have been discussed to death, but there have already been several people, both in this thread, and in-game, asking me many questions, so I'm not sure the information is as readily available as you believe it is.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, my goal with this thread was to inform people. As I said before, I'm tired of being in dungeons on my alt, or even on my CW with other Wizards that are just doing it wrong, when a little knowledge and simple gear-tweaking could make them infinitely more successful.
Hi lupita!
First of all thanks to you and all people like you that makes those threads (like copticone)!!
Anyway, can you please post your build? Just for have an idea of your playstyle! (show your secrets )
Thank you again!
0
malkavierMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Soulforged for Armor, Vorpal for weapon. Plaguefire is a cheaper alternative for your weapon, but only one person in your group really needs to be using it, and a Vorpal will net you higher personal dps.
There's been some talk about Lightning being good, but truth-be-told I haven't had the chance to test it yet.
Lightning is good if you want to spend time dodging the entire trash pack because you just aggro'd everything the lightning arced into. It actually DOES do quite a bit of damage, if you use Greater/Perfect (and the lower ones aren't worth it because they only arc 0-2 times). 50% of weapon damage per arc, per proc, and it seems to have no/very short ICD. It also procs Nightmare Wizardry, Storm Spell, and Eye of the Storm.
How Cryptic trolls the entire NWO playerbase: 9200 GS listed for CN, implying anyone who needs more has no skill.
Soulforged for Armor, Vorpal for weapon. Plaguefire is a cheaper alternative for your weapon, but only one person in your group really needs to be using it, and a Vorpal will net you higher personal dps.
There's been some talk about Lightning being good, but truth-be-told I haven't had the chance to test it yet.
Thanks. I've been collecting my T2 and been wondering what to socket it with.
I mixe HV with ML set, with stone at level 17, currently at 4.2K power, 1.8K crit, 3.7K recovery. I'm working on having more crit. My Damage at the end of a dungeon run usually tops the chart, unless a renegade wizard is in party as Im running Thaum, but im never more than 200K or 300K short. I think I can afford to lose around 700 recovery (dropping mage lord set) and invest in Armpen? Would you suggest I put armpen enchants for stone as well? currently the stone is nearly 1K crit bonus.
Definitely some good information in this thread. Whatever your opinion on the viability of different play styles, I think the most important takeaway here that everyone should be able to agree on is that there is no such thing as a CW who excels at overall control while dealing poor damage.
For a truly viable CW in PvE there is only "great" damage and "maximum" damage. You can take an odd feat or two that is not directly related to your damage output and still be viable, but it's foolish to completely ignore amazing damage-boosting feats and powers because they don't fit into one's idea of a "control" wizard. As others have said, a dead mob is very effectively controlled, and much less headache than the ones you have to freeze and stun repeatedly because you can't finish the job.
If you choose powers intelligently that fit your play style and build and complement the situation at hand, you can't really do that badly as long as you didn't throw darts to select your feats. If you're regularly at or near the top of the damage charts when you run dungeons with comparably geared players, especially if you are primarily on trash duty (i.e. most of the time), that's a good sign. If the cleric is scoring higher in the damage category than you are, then you might want to reexamine your approach.
I mixe HV with ML set, with stone at level 17, currently at 4.2K power, 1.8K crit, 3.7K recovery. I'm working on having more crit. My Damage at the end of a dungeon run usually tops the chart, unless a renegade wizard is in party as Im running Thaum, but im never more than 200K or 300K short. I think I can afford to lose around 700 recovery (dropping mage lord set) and invest in Armpen? Would you suggest I put armpen enchants for stone as well? currently the stone is nearly 1K crit bonus.
Your damage at the end of a dungeon is relative to the skill and gear level of those around you, so when you say that you usually top the charts with those stats it literally means nothing to me.
Don't use Magelord, Power is the worst stat you can be getting until you have all the other stats at soft-cap. You should be aiming for 24% armor pen (2530) and you should choose to use either 4 piece High Vizier or 4 piece Shadow Weaver.
Definitely some good information in this thread. Whatever your opinion on the viability of different play styles, I think the most important takeaway here that everyone should be able to agree on is that there is no such thing as a CW who excels at overall control while dealing poor damage.
For a truly viable CW in PvE there is only "great" damage and "maximum" damage. You can take an odd feat or two that is not directly related to your damage output and still be viable, but it's foolish to completely ignore amazing damage-boosting feats and powers because they don't fit into one's idea of a "control" wizard. As others have said, a dead mob is very effectively controlled, and much less headache than the ones you have to freeze and stun repeatedly because you can't finish the job.
If you choose powers intelligently that fit your play style and build and complement the situation at hand, you can't really do that badly as long as you didn't throw darts to select your feats. If you're regularly at or near the top of the damage charts when you run dungeons with comparably geared players, especially if you are primarily on trash duty (i.e. most of the time), that's a good sign. If the cleric is scoring higher in the damage category than you are, then you might want to reexamine your approach.
Some good points here, and I definitely agree about the feats, there's a lot of things that just come down to personal preference, you really need to just see what works for you and the group that you run with.
For those people asking about my build, I'd like to stay away from absolutes in terms of feat set-ups. My thaum build is very cookie cutter, and you can find that information in other guides on this forum. This isn't really meant to be a guide, but rather a discourse meant to inform people the experiences of other CW's and to highlight some common inconsistencies and fallacies being presented on the forums.
All you're accomplishing is making me think you have nothing worthwhile to say.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and no one is forcing you to read this thread. Post something constructive or do us all a favor and simply move along.
I certainly agree that they stack and that High Vizier is currently the most effective set. However, there is a certain point that the target can be debuffed so heavily (5 stacks of Wicked reminder in addition to wizard buffs) that more debuffs aren't doing anything.
Care to elaborate on this a little bit?
From my understanding both those debuffs can and will bring resistance into negative value, thus there is no point where more debuffs aren't doing anything.
Thank you for the time and effort you took to share your experience. Although you mention several times that all of the information in your post is public knowledge, it's very helpful to have it summarized.
Do you have any data on Greater Vorpal vs. Greater LifeDrinker? That's +38% critical severity vs. +7% damage all the time. Plus the nice bonus of having that 7% given to you as HP.
What I see is a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with D&D and based on limitations that should not exist.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
0
runalogaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Overall, this is a great thread as I had been ignoring ARP. Even adding a few hundred points into it has made a huge difference.
0
runalogaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hi lupita!
First of all thanks to you and all people like you that makes those threads (like copticone)!!
Anyway, can you please post your build? Just for have an idea of your playstyle! (show your secrets )
Thank you again!
Ditto on both points.
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Thanks for the post, OP. A lot of really useful info in it for CW's of any level, not just end game. I am a firm believer that there is no one bud for all players, and that if we all know the basics of the mechanics behind the stats we have, we can all make better choices as to how we want to spec and gear our characters.
I'm personally glad you didn't feel the need to qualify your post with your current stats and build, as I feel those that deem this necessary are unconvinced with what they have to say, and feel that posting pictures of group success somehow makes what they have to say more accurate (this is jot the case for people that want to see yiur build out of interest, I should point out). By not posting these things, you have left us with nothing but the information, so we judge the accuracy of what you have to say solely and 100% based on what it is you said. Those that do not believe you and are unwilling to verify your information themselves simply do not deserve assistance, so should not be afforded any.
Hi lupita!
First of all thanks to you and all people like you that makes those threads (like copticone)!!
Anyway, can you please post your build? Just for have an idea of your playstyle! (show your secrets )
Thank you again!
Like I said in a few posts previously, this post is not meant to be a guide. Thaumaturge and Renegade specs are both fairly cookie cutter, but at the end of the day you're going to want to play the game and figure out exactly what works for you and your normal group comp.
However, I will tell you that I run a very cookie cutter Thaumaturge spec, very similar to the thread maintained by runicfi, and that the build from copticone's thread based more on chill effects is also extremely viable.
From my understanding both those debuffs can and will bring resistance into negative value, thus there is no point where more debuffs aren't doing anything.
Cheers
What I meant to say was that there is a point where it becomes redundant, not that it isn't doing anything. I'm well aware that ARP is applied first and that debuffs can push mobs into the negative. I think that having one wizard with High Vizier in the group is enough, and that if there is a second wizard in the group you will net more overall group damage if they are using Shadow Weaver.
Thanks for pointing that out though, a lot of people still don't realize how ARP, defense, and mitigation work in tandem.
Comments
I didn't recommend going 4k+ recovery, I just said it's not terrible if you already have it. Increasing recovery above 3.5k will still increase your dps and control as you recharge powers faster, however increasing some other stat like power/crit/arp will most likely be a better choice.
Yeah but do you always use entangle on tab? I sure don't, mostly using CoI on tab where it becomes harder to build AP and in this case 3k+ recovery will not be completely in vain (still don't recommend going above 3.5k+ recovery)
In other words, a CW with 3k recovery and 2.5k ARP will be generally more effective than 6k recovery and 250 ARP.
To expand on this a little- think of it this way, if you change some things around, and one of your stats is pushed over the soft cap somewhat, don't panic, the world will not end. All this means is stop stacking that stat on purpose now, and add to other things which are useful and still below their soft caps thereafter.
As for the first response by fondlez....I have to say you clearly don't understand the concept. There is NO DIFFERENCE between a control oriented and a dps oriented CW -- they are one and the same. The fact that you say "control playstyles have high synergy with ledge pushing" is beyond idiotic. A cw with 2500 recovery can ledge just as well as a CW with 9000 recovery. However, that particular "cotrol oriented" CW that stacks recovery or some other bull**** stat deals nowhere near the damage that a CW with balanced offensive stats does. Period, end of story.
Also, I'm not sure if this was said somewhere in the thread: armor penetration is applied before all debuffs.
My Stats are currently 4k Power, 3,6k Recovery, 2,2k Armor Pen, and 1,8k Crit, 24,8k Life and 1,2k Defense (Without the Set Bonus).
This let me deal a high amount of dps while surviving the Aggro of the Trashpack.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
Soulforged for Armor, Vorpal for weapon. Plaguefire is a cheaper alternative for your weapon, but only one person in your group really needs to be using it, and a Vorpal will net you higher personal dps.
There's been some talk about Lightning being good, but truth-be-told I haven't had the chance to test it yet.
/facepalm
No you do not distinquish your text from the text you posted, because this is done via the nice little darkbox and white borders around the text you quoted. You just want to look more important than you are. Your bold text is highly annoying to read and the impression that poster has of you is certainly shared by several other people. Furthermore your name is left of your text so it is very easy to know which text you wrote and which not undless one is a demented goldfish with a short term memory which lasts for nano seconds.
As to your arguments nothing new here this has been discussed to death in several other threads.
wat do u mean???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
Sorry you feel that way, however I assure you, this isn't my intention. I'd appreciate it if we could keep the posts constructive.
You say these topics have been discussed to death, but there have already been several people, both in this thread, and in-game, asking me many questions, so I'm not sure the information is as readily available as you believe it is.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, my goal with this thread was to inform people. As I said before, I'm tired of being in dungeons on my alt, or even on my CW with other Wizards that are just doing it wrong, when a little knowledge and simple gear-tweaking could make them infinitely more successful.
First of all thanks to you and all people like you that makes those threads (like copticone)!!
Anyway, can you please post your build? Just for have an idea of your playstyle! (show your secrets
Thank you again!
Lightning is good if you want to spend time dodging the entire trash pack because you just aggro'd everything the lightning arced into. It actually DOES do quite a bit of damage, if you use Greater/Perfect (and the lower ones aren't worth it because they only arc 0-2 times). 50% of weapon damage per arc, per proc, and it seems to have no/very short ICD. It also procs Nightmare Wizardry, Storm Spell, and Eye of the Storm.
Thanks. I've been collecting my T2 and been wondering what to socket it with.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
For a truly viable CW in PvE there is only "great" damage and "maximum" damage. You can take an odd feat or two that is not directly related to your damage output and still be viable, but it's foolish to completely ignore amazing damage-boosting feats and powers because they don't fit into one's idea of a "control" wizard. As others have said, a dead mob is very effectively controlled, and much less headache than the ones you have to freeze and stun repeatedly because you can't finish the job.
If you choose powers intelligently that fit your play style and build and complement the situation at hand, you can't really do that badly as long as you didn't throw darts to select your feats. If you're regularly at or near the top of the damage charts when you run dungeons with comparably geared players, especially if you are primarily on trash duty (i.e. most of the time), that's a good sign. If the cleric is scoring higher in the damage category than you are, then you might want to reexamine your approach.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Your damage at the end of a dungeon is relative to the skill and gear level of those around you, so when you say that you usually top the charts with those stats it literally means nothing to me.
Don't use Magelord, Power is the worst stat you can be getting until you have all the other stats at soft-cap. You should be aiming for 24% armor pen (2530) and you should choose to use either 4 piece High Vizier or 4 piece Shadow Weaver.
Some good points here, and I definitely agree about the feats, there's a lot of things that just come down to personal preference, you really need to just see what works for you and the group that you run with.
For those people asking about my build, I'd like to stay away from absolutes in terms of feat set-ups. My thaum build is very cookie cutter, and you can find that information in other guides on this forum. This isn't really meant to be a guide, but rather a discourse meant to inform people the experiences of other CW's and to highlight some common inconsistencies and fallacies being presented on the forums.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and no one is forcing you to read this thread. Post something constructive or do us all a favor and simply move along.
Care to elaborate on this a little bit?
From my understanding both those debuffs can and will bring resistance into negative value, thus there is no point where more debuffs aren't doing anything.
Cheers
Do you have any data on Greater Vorpal vs. Greater LifeDrinker? That's +38% critical severity vs. +7% damage all the time. Plus the nice bonus of having that 7% given to you as HP.
Ditto on both points.
GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+
AMD FX-6300 6-Core Processor
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3 1600
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XFX Core Edition FX-785A-CNL4 Radeon HD 7850 2GB
I'm personally glad you didn't feel the need to qualify your post with your current stats and build, as I feel those that deem this necessary are unconvinced with what they have to say, and feel that posting pictures of group success somehow makes what they have to say more accurate (this is jot the case for people that want to see yiur build out of interest, I should point out). By not posting these things, you have left us with nothing but the information, so we judge the accuracy of what you have to say solely and 100% based on what it is you said. Those that do not believe you and are unwilling to verify your information themselves simply do not deserve assistance, so should not be afforded any.
Once again, thank you for your post.
Like I said in a few posts previously, this post is not meant to be a guide. Thaumaturge and Renegade specs are both fairly cookie cutter, but at the end of the day you're going to want to play the game and figure out exactly what works for you and your normal group comp.
However, I will tell you that I run a very cookie cutter Thaumaturge spec, very similar to the thread maintained by runicfi, and that the build from copticone's thread based more on chill effects is also extremely viable.
I suppose that's your opinion. I could definitely see how people who aren't very good at the game could see it that way, so to each their own i guess
This isn't D&D, it's an MMO based on the D&D Universe.
What I meant to say was that there is a point where it becomes redundant, not that it isn't doing anything. I'm well aware that ARP is applied first and that debuffs can push mobs into the negative. I think that having one wizard with High Vizier in the group is enough, and that if there is a second wizard in the group you will net more overall group damage if they are using Shadow Weaver.
Thanks for pointing that out though, a lot of people still don't realize how ARP, defense, and mitigation work in tandem.
Enough, but 3 wizards in HV set melt down any boss very quickly.