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IDEA! Improved ignore list for foundry authors!

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  • sourcreamkingsourcreamking Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Leaving 1 star should be impossiple unless you take the time to write WHY you gave 1 star... And if one player gives out nothing but 1 star reviews they should get temp-banned from reviewing for a while. Must be something that can be done to fix this.

    That being said, people are generally stupid, ignorant parasites. If a quest requires you to read, you WILL get 1 & 2 stars on a regular basis. Sad but true.
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  • redneckroninredneckronin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    That being said, people are generally stupid, ignorant parasites. If a quest requires you to read, you WILL get 1 & 2 stars on a regular basis. Sad but true.

    Both my published quests require quite a bit (some would say a lot) of reading.

    Out of 250+ reviews across them I have 1x 1-Star and 2x 2-Star. Part Two has 153 reviews, 60 of which are 5-Star, 73 of which are 4-Star.

    That pattern is roughly repeated on Part Two.

    Now, some of the comments, even the 4 and 5 star ones do mention the amount of reading, but it doesn't seem to have unduly affected the ratings. I also know for a fact that there are two five-star ratings on each that are only five-star because there is so much reading (both players LOVE story/lore/background that help with "immersion").

    So I am not at all convinced that what you say is necessarily true.

    I think where players start to down-rate for too much reading is if that reading isn't obviously necessary for the story, and / or doesn't help drag them in to the story; and that is, I am reasonably certain, down to what might be termed "writing-craft".

    All The Best
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    Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
    Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
  • vold316vold316 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    There is one thing that bothers me about current review system, well there are plenty, but what bothers me the most is:

    Reviews of On-Review Quests, are meant to help the author to improve their quest. From my point of view, those reviews should NOT be public!

    Now about the trolls, there is only one thing you can do to avoid or reduce 1 stars: Do not advertise your quest too much; when your quest is polished, submit it and stop the advertising through the forum and through in-game messages, because that is a troll's magnet.
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  • apocrs1980apocrs1980 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    vold316 wrote: »

    Now about the trolls, there is only one thing you can do to avoid or reduce 1 stars: Do not advertise your quest too much; when your quest is polished, submit it and stop the advertising through the forum and through in-game messages, because that is a troll's magnet.

    This doesn't work as soon as your quest hits the best page it's delicious food for the trolls, anyone who has been on the best page knows exactly what I am talking about.
    I have already submitted a report about the griefing, and am really not sure what to do beyond this point.
    But to be honest, I really don't even feel like bothering to finish anymore foundry content.
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  • karitrkaritr Member Posts: 662 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    apocrs1980 wrote: »
    It was Ravenloft that was bombed and each were ten 1 stars within an hour time frame, no comments left.

    I guess I didn't read far back enough.

    zbkolde wrote: »
    Having said all of that, your point is not completely invalid. Thing is, a lot of people will always be looking for new quests to play, not necessarily what's on the "Best" tab. The way it is now, our quests disappear after being on the "New" tab for awhile, and as far as i know no one has figured out why. That's why people post their quests here, it's the only way to get any attention to them. To counter the issue you raised, there could be a category of the most stars received in the last 30 days, instead of a "Best" tab. That way newer quests would cycle through all the time. The all-time lists could be separate. The entire quest search/list system needs to be overhauled anyway.

    Now that's a suggestion I could get behind.

    apocrs1980 wrote: »
    And... just logged in and I was struck again, who in their right mind has the time to make multiple accounts and one star bomb authors just to grief them, TO whom ever is griefing me: congratulations for the additional 10 one stars you managed to move me down the list a whole .01 points.
    Regardless if an author is on the best tab or not, this sort of abuse does nothing but discourage anyone from every bothering to pour any time in to a foundry. I'm at a loss for words at this point...whatever.

    I have a confession to make. I have played 'Barovia' five times and never managed to complete it :o

    If I finally crack it, I hope my review can make up a little for those one stars.

    I think where players start to down-rate for too much reading is if that reading isn't obviously necessary for the story, and / or doesn't help drag them in to the story; and that is, I am reasonably certain, down to what might be termed "writing-craft".

    Oh gosh yes this. Though I don't down-rate, I just quit out of and abandon poorly written and/or verbose stories.

    vold316 wrote: »
    There is one thing that bothers me about current review system, well there are plenty, but what bothers me the most is:

    Reviews of On-Review Quests, are meant to help the author to improve their quest. From my point of view, those reviews should NOT be public!

    I don't disagree with this, but again have to say that in the greater scheme of things the early reviews won't diversely affect the overall ratings.

    I do sometimes play quests in the review tab and I always allow for the fact the quests are still in 'beta' - for example, not taking points off for grammar issues, stuck objectives etc. When I give my star rating at that stage, I judge it on how the quest would be if all those things were corrected. You authors on the other hand can be a harder audience to please :p
  • vold316vold316 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    apocrs1980 wrote: »
    This doesn't work as soon as your quest hits the best page it's delicious food for the trolls, anyone who has been on the best page knows exactly what I am talking about.
    I have already submitted a report about the griefing, and am really not sure what to do beyond this point.
    But to be honest, I really don't even feel like bothering to finish anymore foundry content.

    Yeah, I understand. That is another troll's magnet, nevertherless, you probably also get plenty of good reviews from non-troll players.
    karitr wrote:
    I don't disagree with this, but again have to say that in the greater scheme of things the early reviews won't diversely affect the overall ratings.

    I do sometimes play quests in the review tab and I always allow for the fact the quests are still in 'beta' - for example, not taking points off for grammar issues, stuck objectives etc. When I give my star rating at that stage, I judge it on how the quest would be if all those things were corrected. You authors on the other hand can be a harder audience to please

    I understand, in long term they will not really matter; the thing is that in short term, it is a pain in the *** to obtain reviews because people tends to play those which have higher score, so, if you get bad reviews when your quest is on-review, you will have to advertice your quest forever, even worse, if you get a troll 1 star review.

    I also have different standards to review new quests, but not all the people are like us.
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  • redneckroninredneckronin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    apocrs1980 wrote: »
    This doesn't work as soon as your quest hits the best page it's delicious food for the trolls, anyone who has been on the best page knows exactly what I am talking about.
    I have already submitted a report about the griefing, and am really not sure what to do beyond this point.
    But to be honest, I really don't even feel like bothering to finish anymore foundry content.

    Now look, I've played the Ravenloft - Barovia quest.

    It's bloody brilliant.

    I know this.

    Just about every Author who has played it knows this.

    And, most importantly.

    You know this.

    So why let these 1-Star "ratings" get you down if you are 100% convinced they are just trolls?

    The way to defeat the Trolls is not to feed them, and letting them win feeds them more than anything else you can possibly do.

    All The Best
    Campaign: Call Of The Wild - Information, Links To Review Threads, Screenshots

    Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
    Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
  • apocrs1980apocrs1980 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Now look, I've played the Ravenloft - Barovia quest.

    It's bloody brilliant.

    I know this.

    Just about every Author who has played it knows this.

    And, most importantly.

    You know this.

    So why let these 1-Star "ratings" get you down if you are 100% convinced they are just trolls?

    The way to defeat the Trolls is not to feed them, and letting them win feeds them more than anything else you can possibly do.

    All The Best

    Very true and thanks for the psotive comment, I don't mind getting a 1 star if it is truly warranted and there are plenty of 1 star comments which were left that were valid, either it was not to that person's particular taste or they have had a very less than enjoyable experience, to which I understand.
    But lets be honest with ourselves, (if it hasn't happened yet it will) as soon as the trolls get a hold of your content and start to down rate you for fun, there is not one author in here that wouldn't at the very least want to find them and punch them in the face :P Just saying.
    I'm trying to muster all I can to get chapter 2 finished, I came all this way makes no sense to throw in the towel now, it's just that I find myself loggin in making 2 changes and going mehh... log out.
    Having the community support you defiantly counter acts the trollish HAMSTER that is going on so thank all of you for the insight.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA
    Ravenloft
    Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
  • delthanindelthanin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 188 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    I'd be hesitant about enabling some sort of "ban user from playing my content" feature. As a free-2-play game, there's a pretty strong chance of someone making multiple accounts solely to 1 star your content after being banned with their main account.

    Sounds petty and like way too much effort over so small an offense? I agree. I guarantee it would still happen.

    @apoc: Don't worry too much about the 1 stars. No matter the number of 1-stars you get, you're safely deep in the "Best" section. Some of us aren't even there, or continuously get bumped on and off. If you jump into the channel a lot of authors hang out in, you'd see a bunch of us agree that you set the bar for area design.
  • anrix2anrix2 Member Posts: 175 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    delthanin wrote: »
    If you jump into the channel a lot of authors hang out in, you'd see a bunch of us agree that you set the bar for area design.

    Quoted for truth, and if you can't beat them down rate them. If you stop making foundries the trolls win. I would assume that getting you out of the game will lower the bar for them and that is their goal.
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  • mosby1mosby1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 288 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    I think what we need are better tools to sort for useful reviews. Like 'give me the average rating only from folks on my friends list,' or 'show me all the missions that my friend Bob gave 5 stars to.'

    This might help, for example, give the concept of valued reviewers some legs -- someone is trusted for opinions like yours, so you follow their reviews.

    I like that idea. I also like how Amazon implements it. There are no anonymous reviews, but anyone can (anonymously) indicate if a review was helpful or not. The good/useful reviews end up on top. That can include ones with high ratings, low ratings, or just funny ones.. but it works.
    If a quest requires you to read, you WILL get 1 & 2 stars on a regular basis. Sad but true.

    For sure. DM's Studio has about 800 reviews. About 700 of them were 4 or 5 stars. But there's a bunch (maybe 50) that are 1 or 2 stars, I guess from people who thought it was a quest.
    DM's Studio - NW-DHZ5DAV4R
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  • delthanindelthanin Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 188 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    mosby1 wrote: »
    For sure. DM's Studio has about 800 reviews. About 700 of them were 4 or 5 stars. But there's a bunch (maybe 50) that are 1 or 2 stars, I guess from people who thought it was a quest.

    Possibly, but apoc isn't off the mark when he's saying there are people who like to 1 star simply because they think it's funny. For example: Getting a comment that says "Fun quest, good job! :) " - 1 Star.
  • dzogendzogen Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    apocrs1980 wrote: »

    Ok, So after being continually bombed with rude, nonconstructive, and down right mind numbingly stupid 1 star reviews here is what is desperately needed for the foundry:

    An improved ignore list! If I add that @handle to my ignore list they are no longer able to play any foundry missions from my @handle again, or until I decide to remove them from said ignore list.

    I believe this will curb people's ridiculous behavior when it comes to crapping all over foundry missions just because they can.
    It will also prevent that player from playing any future content from that author, and also make them think twice about their unwanted nonconstructive reviews just because they were "high" and thought it was funny to HAMSTER all over your work.
    If that payer is being cut off from all of the authors work out there just because he chose to abuse the foundry review system he would find himself able to play less and less content as authors block them.

    I debated even posting this but after the 3rd week in a row of being anonymously 1 star bombed ten times in a row I'm really getting sick of it, and would love some sort of tool to block future tools from posting reviews that are unwarranted.

    It's not perfect but authors need a way to protect themselves from the 1 star trolls.
    Please show your support if you agree with this idea and lets make it happen!

    Why not? There are a lot of loopholes around this but a universal censor couldn't hurt.

    You'd need to remove anonymity from 1 star posts with no comments. So you would see 1/5 @handle so you'd know who to remove from future plays.

    PS. lulz
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  • crok2crok2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I want to see a 'glitch' in the system that suddenly publishes all the @names next to the 1 stars... retroactively. THAT would make for some fun! ;)
  • karitrkaritr Member Posts: 662 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    dzogen wrote: »
    crok2 wrote: »
    I want to see a 'glitch' in the system that suddenly publishes all the @names next to the 1 stars... retroactively. THAT would make for some fun! ;)

    If you read your reviews from inside the game you get the @handles.
  • zbkoldezbkolde Member Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    karitr wrote: »
    If you read your reviews from inside the game you get the @handles.

    Only if they leave a comment. No comment, no @handle. Most 1-star reviews are anonymous, no comments, no @handles.
  • gornonthecobgornonthecob Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think the fix is really simple. You must comment to rate. That way we can at least see the @handle of the person who hated it. You'd be less inclined to be a jerk if everyone knew you and avoided you.

    IF CRYPTIC WANTS TO KEEP AUTHORS, THEY DO NEED A WAY TO SHIELD US FROM DISCOURAGEMENT. (discouragement from trolls, not legitimate feedback.)\ Personally I think the rating system should only be used during Beta phases of your quest. Once it's been live for a week, the rating system disappears, and people either enjoy it or keep their opinions to themselves.

    I've only had a couple anon reviews and those were generally 1-3 stars. I can't, nor do I want to know how discouraged others become at seeing numerous 1 star reviews from people who think it's funny.
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  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Forcing reviews opens people up to reprisals (ie: you gave me one star??? I'm going to make 10 accounts and 1-star bomb you with my guild mates!!!!!).

    Forcing text doesn't make the information useful, like I can just say '1-star: needs polish'
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • gornonthecobgornonthecob Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    you gave me one star??? I'm going to make 10 accounts and 1-star bomb you with my guild mates!


    I am actually quite certain this is how I got a couple low ratings. I offered legitimate feedback on a couple quests, gave them a fair 2 star rating, and a couple days later I get the anon 1 stars.
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  • zoiks100zoiks100 Member Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    No one should let reviews affect their ego, for good or ill. The system is so badly flawed that any meaning the ratings could have had is lost. The only purpose they serve is to exploit the horribly flawed system, to get achievements or for authors to get their quests out of the impossible to be found on review list and onto the "best" or "new" lists so the number of plays shoots up, or to knock someone else's quest off said lists.

    This is a game where achievements create incentive to give max tips while doing the quickest foundry quests you can find, where the review prompt only asks for "good" comments, where the daily foundry quest promotes ONLY doing the fastest daily accredited quest, where the comment field is so small that it's difficult to leave a useful review (either to the author or future players), where XP and loot are limited in foundry quests more so than any other content, and where reviews never fade even though new versions are implemented.

    In other words, there is no reason to care about reviews, other than to game their badly designed review system.
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  • karitrkaritr Member Posts: 662 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    zbkolde wrote: »
    Only if they leave a comment. No comment, no @handle. Most 1-star reviews are anonymous, no comments, no @handles.

    Fair enough, but apocs said they came with rude comments so his weren't anonymous.

    Regardless of star rating, if someone doesn't leave a comment I am not sure why the information is being fed back to the author. What possible purpose can it serve?

    Instead of asking players to be 'forced' to comment (you just know the rude comments will increase tenfold if that ever happened) why not ask Cryptic to stop providing this information altogether? It's absolutely useless.
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I've given a few anonymous 1 star reviews because I either did not want to get sucked into a huge argument with the author or wanted to avoid griefing reprisals.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • almostcoolalmostcool Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Honestly no amount of negative reviews will ever get to me because I love creating the quests I make. You just have to laugh it off really. Maybe it's an ego problem but I think I'm pretty awesome and no amount of troll comments can change that.

    I edit videos professionally and you have to get use to criticism. Some of it I disagree with and some of it makes sense, the client gets what the client wants. If I got upset at every comment made I would be seriously depressed haha.

    On that note I've never given a 1-star to any quest. I don't believe foundry authors should discourage each other since we all know what goes into making them. If I do feel that a quest is below average or just clearly buggy/unfinished I won't even rate and just message the author with my comments. Sometimes this is ill received and I don't respond thereafter. People who can't take legitimate criticism should just stop putting their work out there honestly.

    On topic, I don't think cryptic will actually do anything about 1-star trolls. After reading most of these posts every solution thought up has loop-holes and other means of abuse. Very fine line here.
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  • raphaeldisantoraphaeldisanto Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It's the price of fame, frankly.

    You can't stop people anonymously trashing your latest quest any more than you can stop people anonymously trashing Justin Timberlake's latest song or Spielberg's latest movie.

    Don't let 'em get you down, apoc. You do good work, and I'd hate to think that the only reason you do it is because you care about the reviews.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Some people should be discouraged from making ****e.

    They can choose to stop making quests or actually improve what they are doing. Either way, win.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • sominatorsominator Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Cool ideas! Thanks everyone!
    Proud member of Team Fencebane, official guild of the unofficial Neverwinter Adventure Hour!
  • redneckroninredneckronin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sominator wrote: »
    Cool ideas! Thanks everyone!

    Feeble copy+paste attempt at pretending to interact with the community is a feeble copy+paste attempt at pretending to interact with the community.

    All The Best
    Campaign: Call Of The Wild - Information, Links To Review Threads, Screenshots

    Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
    Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
  • orodalforodalf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    redneckronin, stop. sominator is indicating that this thread has been read by the staff, which is all we can really ask for.
  • redneckroninredneckronin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    orodalf wrote: »
    redneckronin, stop. sominator is indicating that this thread has been read by the staff, which is all we can really ask for.

    I'll bet that neither sominator or any other staff have actually read the thread.

    Posting a copy+paste response in a thread is not an indicator that the thread has actually been read.

    The way to do that is to respond, using the quote function, to some of the specific points raised, and maybe even indicate whether they are achievable as things stand.

    All The Best
    Campaign: Call Of The Wild - Information, Links To Review Threads, Screenshots

    Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
    Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
  • orodalforodalf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'll bet that neither sominator or any other staff have actually read the thread.

    Posting a copy+paste response in a thread is not an indicator that the thread has actually been read.

    The way to do that is to respond, using the quote function, to some of the specific points raised, and maybe even indicate whether they are achievable as things stand.

    All The Best

    Not quite. If they didn't know the content of the thread, how could they know which of the many threads are appropriate to "copy/paste" the message into?

    And besides, sominator is a Community Manager - I doubt he has the authority to actually respond in a "this could work" capacity. He's doing his best by checking out the threads that receive the most/best responses and highlighting them both for us and for the higher-ups.
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