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Dispelling Common Myths / Misconceptions Concerning Control Wizard End-Game PvE
lupita170
Member Posts: 122 Bounty Hunter
Hi, I play a CW named Lupita on the Dragon Server. I'm currently sitting at 12.5k GS, and I've killed every boss in the game legit many times over, as I'm sure many of you have at this point.
In the past I have played in the guilds <vodka> and <Exodus> in World of Warcraft for many years and I have raided in that game, as well as many other MMO's at the very top level. PvP is just something that I do for fun and don't take extremely seriously, and as such this thread will not cover anything concerning PvP. For all intensive purposes, this thread will be used to dispel certain myths and misconceptions that I see everyday here on the forums concerning PvE and PvE only.
Please realize that I am the type of person who likes to min/max my character. I'm not trying to simply clear dungeons, I'm aiming to stomp them into the ground as efficiently as humanly possible. I want to do 4 spellplagues in one dungeon delve with no deaths, I want to out-dps well-geared rogues while still maintaining proper control on mobs, I don't want to skip bosses to get free loot, I want to smash them.
I'm going to start off with the 5 top things that I see all the time on these forums that drive me crazy that will be very obvious to some, and perhaps not so apparent to others. This list is by no means exhaustive, and I may add to it as I discover people saying things that are just plain wrong.
#1: "If I keep stacking recovery beyond the soft-cap, I will be able to control mobs better. After all, I am a control wizard first and foremost, I am not interested in doing good damage."
I cannot begin to explain how crazy this assertion is. Being able to control mobs well and do extremely competitive DPS are NOT mutually exclusive things for the Control Wizard class in this game. You should be able to do both, and if you aren't doing both you're not maximizing your character properly and are both indirectly and directly hurting the group that you are part of. Recovery begins to suffer from diminishing returns around 3k, as such you should not have more than this number unless you are using the High Vizier Set (which is certainly a viable option), in which case, you will end up with around 3.5k Recovery in end-game gear-sets.
Through playing the game, I have learned that without a shadow of a doubt, there is little difference between having 3k recovery, and having 6k+ recovery, and that any difference that you perceive is essentially a placebo effect. If you are stacking massive amounts of recovery you are sacrificing other stats, this is why you do bad dps and claim that you aren't interested in doing good damage; because you're unable to.
Additionally, on the topic of controlling, don't put points into the Controlling Action feat, you don't need it if you're at the recovery soft-cap, go with toughness instead. Also, you should never be getting the feat Critical Power over Repears Touch. getting action points on a 10 second cooldown is close to laughable when you compare it to the amount of action points you can generate popping shield and if need be, using Entangling Force on tab, and it certainly isn't worth dropping 15% damage on your at-wills.
#2: "I'm not sure about this whole armor pen thing, I think I'll just put power/recovery/crit in my offensive slots and I should be just fine"
The math has been done. Bosses in the current tiers of 5 man dungeons have a maximum of 24% damage resistance. If you aren't at 24% armor pen, you aren't able to do the maximum amount of damage to a boss, period. 22% armor pen is fine for trash, but if you are running with absolutely no armor pen, you're just doing it wrong. Rank 7 dark enchantment's are the most expensive for a reason, and that reason is that armor pen is one of the best stats you can be getting up until 24%. If you choose the cheaper route of power/crit/recovery stacking, you will not do as much damage as payers that have the proper amount of armor pen, this is a fact.
#3: "Thaumaturge is better, no Renegade is better....well....my dad could beat up your dad!"
This is a very complex issue. Before the patch a week before Gauntlgrym, Deagen's Renegade build was clearly the top personal dps build in the game for a CW. However, with the nerfs to Ray of Enfeeblement, and the feats Reapers Touch and Masterful Arcane Theft, Thaumaturge damage is now much more in line with it. In addition, Thaumaturge grants you much superior debuffing for the group as a whole (Assailing Force + Elemental Empowerment) both before and after the aforementioned patch. On top of that, if you have a Wizard running High-Vizier in the group, if they are using Entangling Force on tab, they are applying aoe -1350 defense to mobs. This debuff stacking is extremely significant and makes Thaumaturge come out way ahead if you're only running one CW.
That being said, if you're running two CW's in a group, one of them running a Shadow Weaver set spec'd Renegade is probably a much better idea, since many of the debuffs from Thaumaturge would simply be redundant at that point, and a Renegade Wizard benefiting from the Thaumaturge/High Vizier debuffs (in addition to their own personal armor pen, and Wicked Reminder from a TR) will do very impressive damage.
#4: "High Vizier is the set you want to wear to control mobs, Shadow Weaver is strictly a max-dps set"
Just because High Vizer has a two-set bonus of 450 recovery doesn't mean that it isn't good for dps. In fact, as a Thaumaturge Wizard, the highest amount of AOE dps that you're going to be able to achieve as a CW is with the High Vizier Set.
As I stated before, when you use Entangling Force on tab, it immediately applies 3 stacks of the 4-piece bonus debuff to the initial target as well as to all the mobs being pulled towards the target via the spell mastery effect on entangling force. Arcane Singularity > Entangling Force (-1350 defense) > Conduit of Ice (-15% mitigation) > Steal Time (-10% defense via elemental empowerment) > Shield Explosion (you will have 3 or more stacks of arcane mastery from singularity + entangling + steal time), you won't be able to achieve higher AOE dps as a single CW, and in addition, you will gain a massive amount of AP from Entangling and the Shield Explosion.
If you're running two CW's, chill strike on tab would probably net equivalent/higher dps for the second wizard while this rotation is taking place, assuming perfect play.
On the other side of the coin, Shadow Weaver is not strictly a DPS set because the two-set gives you 450 crit. You should be able to singularity just as often with Shadow Weaver as you do with High Vizier. You are sacrificing crit with High Vizier to gain access to the very power 4-piece debuff, but you should still be able to keep your crit around 2k.
#5: "I get too much aggro now that they have fixed Cleric threat, it's totally impossible to control mobs as a solo CW with all these mobs chasing me and do good dps at the same time, I really wish we could just go back to the double-cleric face-roll days so I could get my drool cup out of the closet and stand in red stuff all day long while collecting free loot. Maybe I should just stack all defensive stats and not worry about doing any DPS so i can just sit in red stuff and tank mobs"
Truth be told, the cleric nerfs were probably one of the best things that they have done to this game. Many groups were already running single-cleric before the nerfs, in hopes of dungeons not taking 7 hours when they could in reality be finished in 30 minutes or less.
GWF and GF's can pull mobs off of us to a certain extent, but you have to concede the fact that we are very vulnerable on large AOE pulls if we are doing proper dps. You can't just stand in red **** anymore. You can't just toss a singularity whenever your daily bar hits max. Sometimes you need to stop casting and move out of the red while communicating with your other party members that they need to do something to help because you need to move. Sometimes you need to hold onto singularity when there aren't enough mobs up to be a real threat until there is a real threat. Sometimes you need to hold back on aoe until things get situated or you will just get yourself killed. The answer is not stacking HP, defense, and even silly things like deflection and regen (even though having a certain amount of HP and defense is certainly advisable).
The answer is better and more calculated play. This issue isn't something that is tangible, it's something that you have to achieve by playing the game and learning what you can and can't do in certain situations.
Thanks for looking, I may or may not add to this post later, but I really wanted to address some of these points that I see being misconstrued on the forums all the time. Feel free to pm me or hit me up on Dragon if you have any questions/comments.
In the past I have played in the guilds <vodka> and <Exodus> in World of Warcraft for many years and I have raided in that game, as well as many other MMO's at the very top level. PvP is just something that I do for fun and don't take extremely seriously, and as such this thread will not cover anything concerning PvP. For all intensive purposes, this thread will be used to dispel certain myths and misconceptions that I see everyday here on the forums concerning PvE and PvE only.
Please realize that I am the type of person who likes to min/max my character. I'm not trying to simply clear dungeons, I'm aiming to stomp them into the ground as efficiently as humanly possible. I want to do 4 spellplagues in one dungeon delve with no deaths, I want to out-dps well-geared rogues while still maintaining proper control on mobs, I don't want to skip bosses to get free loot, I want to smash them.
I'm going to start off with the 5 top things that I see all the time on these forums that drive me crazy that will be very obvious to some, and perhaps not so apparent to others. This list is by no means exhaustive, and I may add to it as I discover people saying things that are just plain wrong.
#1: "If I keep stacking recovery beyond the soft-cap, I will be able to control mobs better. After all, I am a control wizard first and foremost, I am not interested in doing good damage."
I cannot begin to explain how crazy this assertion is. Being able to control mobs well and do extremely competitive DPS are NOT mutually exclusive things for the Control Wizard class in this game. You should be able to do both, and if you aren't doing both you're not maximizing your character properly and are both indirectly and directly hurting the group that you are part of. Recovery begins to suffer from diminishing returns around 3k, as such you should not have more than this number unless you are using the High Vizier Set (which is certainly a viable option), in which case, you will end up with around 3.5k Recovery in end-game gear-sets.
Through playing the game, I have learned that without a shadow of a doubt, there is little difference between having 3k recovery, and having 6k+ recovery, and that any difference that you perceive is essentially a placebo effect. If you are stacking massive amounts of recovery you are sacrificing other stats, this is why you do bad dps and claim that you aren't interested in doing good damage; because you're unable to.
Additionally, on the topic of controlling, don't put points into the Controlling Action feat, you don't need it if you're at the recovery soft-cap, go with toughness instead. Also, you should never be getting the feat Critical Power over Repears Touch. getting action points on a 10 second cooldown is close to laughable when you compare it to the amount of action points you can generate popping shield and if need be, using Entangling Force on tab, and it certainly isn't worth dropping 15% damage on your at-wills.
#2: "I'm not sure about this whole armor pen thing, I think I'll just put power/recovery/crit in my offensive slots and I should be just fine"
The math has been done. Bosses in the current tiers of 5 man dungeons have a maximum of 24% damage resistance. If you aren't at 24% armor pen, you aren't able to do the maximum amount of damage to a boss, period. 22% armor pen is fine for trash, but if you are running with absolutely no armor pen, you're just doing it wrong. Rank 7 dark enchantment's are the most expensive for a reason, and that reason is that armor pen is one of the best stats you can be getting up until 24%. If you choose the cheaper route of power/crit/recovery stacking, you will not do as much damage as payers that have the proper amount of armor pen, this is a fact.
#3: "Thaumaturge is better, no Renegade is better....well....my dad could beat up your dad!"
This is a very complex issue. Before the patch a week before Gauntlgrym, Deagen's Renegade build was clearly the top personal dps build in the game for a CW. However, with the nerfs to Ray of Enfeeblement, and the feats Reapers Touch and Masterful Arcane Theft, Thaumaturge damage is now much more in line with it. In addition, Thaumaturge grants you much superior debuffing for the group as a whole (Assailing Force + Elemental Empowerment) both before and after the aforementioned patch. On top of that, if you have a Wizard running High-Vizier in the group, if they are using Entangling Force on tab, they are applying aoe -1350 defense to mobs. This debuff stacking is extremely significant and makes Thaumaturge come out way ahead if you're only running one CW.
That being said, if you're running two CW's in a group, one of them running a Shadow Weaver set spec'd Renegade is probably a much better idea, since many of the debuffs from Thaumaturge would simply be redundant at that point, and a Renegade Wizard benefiting from the Thaumaturge/High Vizier debuffs (in addition to their own personal armor pen, and Wicked Reminder from a TR) will do very impressive damage.
#4: "High Vizier is the set you want to wear to control mobs, Shadow Weaver is strictly a max-dps set"
Just because High Vizer has a two-set bonus of 450 recovery doesn't mean that it isn't good for dps. In fact, as a Thaumaturge Wizard, the highest amount of AOE dps that you're going to be able to achieve as a CW is with the High Vizier Set.
As I stated before, when you use Entangling Force on tab, it immediately applies 3 stacks of the 4-piece bonus debuff to the initial target as well as to all the mobs being pulled towards the target via the spell mastery effect on entangling force. Arcane Singularity > Entangling Force (-1350 defense) > Conduit of Ice (-15% mitigation) > Steal Time (-10% defense via elemental empowerment) > Shield Explosion (you will have 3 or more stacks of arcane mastery from singularity + entangling + steal time), you won't be able to achieve higher AOE dps as a single CW, and in addition, you will gain a massive amount of AP from Entangling and the Shield Explosion.
If you're running two CW's, chill strike on tab would probably net equivalent/higher dps for the second wizard while this rotation is taking place, assuming perfect play.
On the other side of the coin, Shadow Weaver is not strictly a DPS set because the two-set gives you 450 crit. You should be able to singularity just as often with Shadow Weaver as you do with High Vizier. You are sacrificing crit with High Vizier to gain access to the very power 4-piece debuff, but you should still be able to keep your crit around 2k.
#5: "I get too much aggro now that they have fixed Cleric threat, it's totally impossible to control mobs as a solo CW with all these mobs chasing me and do good dps at the same time, I really wish we could just go back to the double-cleric face-roll days so I could get my drool cup out of the closet and stand in red stuff all day long while collecting free loot. Maybe I should just stack all defensive stats and not worry about doing any DPS so i can just sit in red stuff and tank mobs"
Truth be told, the cleric nerfs were probably one of the best things that they have done to this game. Many groups were already running single-cleric before the nerfs, in hopes of dungeons not taking 7 hours when they could in reality be finished in 30 minutes or less.
GWF and GF's can pull mobs off of us to a certain extent, but you have to concede the fact that we are very vulnerable on large AOE pulls if we are doing proper dps. You can't just stand in red **** anymore. You can't just toss a singularity whenever your daily bar hits max. Sometimes you need to stop casting and move out of the red while communicating with your other party members that they need to do something to help because you need to move. Sometimes you need to hold onto singularity when there aren't enough mobs up to be a real threat until there is a real threat. Sometimes you need to hold back on aoe until things get situated or you will just get yourself killed. The answer is not stacking HP, defense, and even silly things like deflection and regen (even though having a certain amount of HP and defense is certainly advisable).
The answer is better and more calculated play. This issue isn't something that is tangible, it's something that you have to achieve by playing the game and learning what you can and can't do in certain situations.
Thanks for looking, I may or may not add to this post later, but I really wanted to address some of these points that I see being misconstrued on the forums all the time. Feel free to pm me or hit me up on Dragon if you have any questions/comments.
Post edited by lupita170 on
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twitch.tv/redeclipze
2. Your playstyle is highly dps oriented. Many other players prefer control playstyles where they are effectively acting as the control-part of tanking since tanks have such low limits to the number of targets their attacks can hit. Depending on synergy with random pug compositions and how much support they expect from the group, they will do "odd" (to you) things like stack Lifesteal or Defense sometimes. In pre-mades, they may switch playstyle and builds entirely to be more dps-oriented.
3. Control playstyles have high synergy with ledge pushing, often speeding up T2 runs far faster than any amount of dps from any class. While I would not recommend optimizing gear around control (since it is not necessary), the playstyle and other aspects of such builds are very much valid and useful.
4. DPS is the least important aspect of most PvE fights. In addition, having full rank 7 Darks + Augment class pet loaded with more ARP to achieve the PvE cap of -24% will not grant you anywhere near as much DPS increase as you would think under most situations (think about it, if it were not the case, 13k CW's specifically would be highly in demand **). Plus, the playstyle (mainly optimizing spell priorities and tight timing) matters much more than the gear. But one things for sure, the cost of doing all that will be *double* that of levelling a whole new character and gearing them from scratch for T2 endgame!
5. I believe you are incorrect about stacking HV debuff with Entangling Force. From my own extensive testing, there is only one Encounter that can immediately apply an aoe 3x debuff: Steal Time. Entangling Force only applies 1x debuff per target, even in Spell Mastery.
Of course, much of this is content-dependent. New tiers of content may change the number of options available in playstyles and builds.
That said, I'm sure some CW will find your post useful for tips, if they can get through the wall of text and if they find anything new.
** An ARP, dps-oriented ~13k CW will see the most increase in effectiveness in pvp, not in pve, in my experience.
This isn't a guide, I'm assuming you already know the basics of the class. Everything I've stated here, things like the 24% damage resistance on bosses, is fully supported many places on the forums, feel free to search it out for yourself as I have in the past. Everything I wrote about is common knowledge by now to end-game PvE'ers.
It's actually very cookie cutter, some encounters are good, and some are very bad, There are actually very few abilities that make the cut for PvE. The only playstyle is the proper one that maximizes all aspects of the class.
As I stated, controlling and dpsing are not mutually exclusive. This has nothing to do with playstyle. If you are doing trash dps, you're hampering the group.
You're really missing the point/unable to read correctly. DPS playstyles and Control playstyles are one in the same, if this is not true in your experience then you're simply doing it wrong. You should be able to efficiently ledge mobs and do top dps.
I am not incorrect, I suggest you check again.
In that case, I am unable to replicate your results. Entangling Force most certainly does not apply an aoe 3x debuff per target for me.
As for the rest of your post, I disagree with it in intent (that there is one way to play in PvE) and see no further value in contributing more time to this thread.
Try it urself if you dont believe me, im not going by any numbers or math, im going after raw experience, and i have a lot of that
(not meant to be insulting in any way, just some "good to know" facts)
If you can't agree that maximizing all aspects of ones class is the correct way to play in PvE, you're probably just fine with doing it wrong, in which case this thread certainly isn't for you. I'm not sure you truly grasp the concepts, being that both DPS and control can both be done simultaneously, at a top tier level, without sacrificing anything.
I certainly agree that they stack and that High Vizier is currently the most effective set. However, there is a certain point that the target can be debuffed so heavily (5 stacks of Wicked reminder in addition to wizard buffs) that more debuffs aren't doing anything.
I'm not sure what you mean by 4 ray stacks, Ray of Enfeeblement from multiple wizards no longer stacks (and it only stacked previously when one wizard was using Ray in spell mastery and the other wasn't). In actuality, if you are using ray of enfeeblement with another Wizard in the group, you want to stagger the debuffs.
First good constructive post though, I definitely agree about the High Vizier set, appreciate the input.
Entangling Force in tab slot DOES NOT GRANT THE 3x DEBUFF OF HIGH VIZIER. We suggest YOU to check again.
Good, because the OP has some amazing information in it, and every CW should at least consider each of those points.
Lupita170, thanks for sharing. While I don't share top tier raiding credentials, these are actually a lot of conclusions I've reached personally in regards to my experience playing a CW. Particularly the Arm Pen and Recovery stacking. I dropped about 1500 recovery to pick up 1800 Arm Pen and it shot my DPS through the roof without having any effect on my AP gain or recharge.
It isn't visually, but after you actually calculate the damage you do after it, and look at your character sheet, you will see that it actually is. Another nice bug from PW
Thank you for sharing as well, When I first started playing I was the same way. Everyone was saying that recovery was king, and after switching I would never switch back.
It will net you a greater increase in PvE, especially since you can reach the soft-cap with a Cat or Stone. The term "dps oriented" also means nothing. A CW is meant to dps and control at the highest possible level.
As I stated in the original post, I really don't want to get into PvP, but if I did, I would tell you that you want to use Tenebrous for PvP, even with the recent nerf to Tenebrous, the burst damage they grant you in a fight in much more valuable than large amounts of armor pen.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=913661
"Ray of Enfeeblement: Two Control Wizards can no longer apply two separate stacks of the debuff on a single target if one uses the Spell Mastery version and one does not. The DoT is still applied by each Wizard individually, however."
Not saying you're wrong, I'll test it out, but this is what was stated. Truth be told, I don't normally use Enfeeblement on tab (or at all for that matter) in PvE these days, with Wicked Reminder already taking mitigation close to 0% in addition to Conduit and Elemental Empowerment and buffs from other players, it can get sort of redundant/inefficient.
My normal setup is chill strike or entangling in tab (depending), steal time, conduit, and shield.
And thank you for tackling another one of my huge pet peeves. Unless you're the DC (at which point you should maximize your healing and buffing), you have to maximize your DPS. The faster mobs die, the better. Controlling mobs means nothing if they aren't also dying. Damage is control. Burning adds fast is control. If you want to be a great CW, you have to do BOTH. You need to aim for top level damage AND control.
The problem with some posts in this forum is they advocate a disproportionate lost of damage in exchange for a very minor boost in control. People are advocating builds that cut their DPS 20-30% in order to marginally control a mob for 1/10ths of a second longer.
I was intrigued by the title and found some great points since I am also following copticone's build
One question though, what is the optimal ArP needed based from your suggestion?
I mean, we are already stacking up huge debuffs mostly on defense reduction via high vizier and thaumaturge tree. Not only that what if you have a greater plaguefire enchant? How much ArP do you still need?
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
a good CW does both, not one.
Ive played with CWs with my alt and the controlling only ones really annoy me. when they are wasting spells doing useless controls when they could be helping by speeding up boss fights. especially when there is a tank in the party, going all control is overkill and counter productive.
Also the ArP thing. alot of wizards still shy away from that stat. And countless of times ive seen wizards with 5k+ recovery.
To be a good wizard imo, is to be flexible, and adapt to all situations. A good wizard can CC effectively and do EQUAL (yes i said it, after numerous tests) damage as rogues/good gwfs in single target boss fights, (since we dont have to dodge things much)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
increasing recovery from 4500 to 5000 = +1.03% AP gain / recharge speed
increasing recovery from 4000 to 4500 = +1.26% AP gain / recharge speed
increasing recovery from 3500 to 4000 = +1.54% AP gain / recharge speed
increasing recovery from 3000 to 3500 = +1.90% AP gain / recharge speed
increasing recovery from 2500 to 3000 = +2.29% AP gain / recharge speed
increasing recovery from 2000 to 2500 = +3.01% AP gain / recharge speed
Yes I have read that thanks but what exact value? 1k? 2k?
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
Really? With plaguefire and an appropriate thaum spec, couldn't you profitably spend that resource elsewhere? It seems like you can carry a lot less than the 24% without missing the cap.
People fully understand how diminishing returns work. The question is not whether or not your recharge/ap gain will increase with more recovery, because obviously it does, but rather, what are you sacrificing to get more recovery (usually crit and/or armor pen), and does the extra recovery really let you control mobs that much better? The answer is no. When I entangle a group of mobs and pop shield I have a full AP bar no matter if I have 3k recovery or 6k, I know this because I've tested it.
If having 4k+ recovery makes you feel better, feel free, but it isn't doing anything except lowering your dps and making your group kill trash/bosses slower.
I really like how ironzerg mentioned that in a way dps is control, and I couldn't agree more. The faster a boss dies, the less add uptime and quantity. That is not to say that you ignore adds. If you're not able to CC correctly and efficiently, even as a solo CW with around 3k recovery, it's time to seriously re-think the spec and skills you are using.
For someone who is not in the "end game" and will most likely not be there any time soon, I still found this thread very helpful. The main point of useful information I have taken away from this thread is the value placed on armor penetration. THANK YOU. I have been ignoring that, and will not continue the mistake.
The next thing I have learned from this thread is something I am quite pleased to hear; "control" is not just freezing mobs etc. The "control" part of the Control Wizard includes controlling through damage in addition to more literal approaches, and we should look to be flexible in providing both types of control for our groups.
This old-timer pen and paper D&D geek sees something quite familiar in that role.
Again, thank you, good thread.
1) Does defense of mobs go under 0% (Into the negatives)?
2) Is having 24% armpen and plaguefire stacks debuff redundant? Do they stack or will defense only go to 0%?
3) Which Neck/Rings would you go with to achieve the 2600 armpen? I have some armpen rings but I sacrifice my 2.1k crit by equipping them. It also gives me ****ty stats like life steal.
Your audience is either other uber-elite players who already know how to complete 4 runs during dungeon delves.
Or non-uber-elite players who will never be uber-elite players.
stop posting in bold it makes you look like a self important idiot
Indeed, I like your chill focused thaumaturge build by the way, some wizards in my guild are using it to great effect. I've tried it and I don't really see a difference in damage from the regular cookie cutter thaum, so it's really just a matter of preference, interesting take though, it was definitely something I hadn't seen before.
I'm currently using Ancient Excorcist's Necklace of Blessings with a Dark Rank 7, and 2x Ancient Slavemaster's Ring's of Control with Dark Rank 7's. Also, I'm using an Ancient Fugutive's Belt of Revolt on myself, and a blue belt on my cat w/ 133 crit 243 armor pen. You can also use rank 7 Eldritch Runestones on your pet in the offensive slots. My pet gives me nearly 1k armor pen. I'm at 2519 armor pen, which is 23.9%, and close enough for me.
If you're using High Vizier, you should be getting the following stats with the proper gear/enchant setup:
4k+ Power
1.7k+ Crit
3.5k+ Recovery
2.5k+ Armor Pen
If you're using Shadow Weaver, with the same gear setup, your stats should look like:
3k+ Power
3k+ Crit
3k+ Recovery
2.5k+ Armor Pen
I'm posting in bold to distinguish my text separately from the text that I'm quoting, but you're free to think whatever you wish.
I think that there's probably some people that can take the information I presented constructively, but to a certain extent you may be right. I'm just growing tired of all the bad information being presented. It's frustrating going into dungeons on my alt and seeing Wizards with 6k recovery, no armor pen and no crit almost being out-dpsed by the Cleric.