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Dungeons should be tuned down

bcvaporbcvapor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 285 Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013 in PvE Discussion
I know people will jump all over me for this but that is my opinion.

The dungeons are too hard for the casual players and the PuG scene is a mess. Combined with the errors currently in game, like leader who can kick, etc have made dungeons an unfriendly and unpleasant chore with PuGs.

So fix the things that need it, but tune the dungeons down to mitigate the combination of recent nerfs and plain difficult dungeons. Nerf dungeons.

Also, make delves permanent, no one likes to pay full price for drinks while waiting for happy hour.
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Post edited by bcvapor on
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Comments

  • jlanderjlander Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Inb4 l2p or some variation of it.
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I wouldn't say too hard more like just silly with every dungeon being boss and tons of adds...they need variation, they also need to open up more modes of play (which I think they may be doing with the upcoming campaign system) endless spawns aren't fun, they are boring and frustrating. Add some dynamic elements to the fights, randomize certain things (like traps) and make them more deadly instead of dogpiling us. Dungeon delves are suppose to be epic experiences....currently they are just tank and spanks that uses zergs because the designers can't figure out a way to challenge veteran groups.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    only the bosses are hard, the rest of the dungeon you don't even need a cleric as most everyone is running around full health
  • ganjaman1ganjaman1 Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bcvapor wrote: »
    I know people will jump all over me for this but that is my opinion.

    The dungeons are too hard for the casual players and the PuG scene is a mess. Combined with the errors currently in game, like leader who can kick, etc have made dungeons an unfriendly and unpleasant chore with PuGs.

    So fix the things that need it, but tune the dungeons down to mitigate the combination of recent nerfs and plain difficult dungeons. Nerf dungeons.

    Also, make delves permanent, no one likes to pay full price for drinks while waiting for happy hour.

    The T2 gear is already overflowing the market , do you really want them to tone down the T2 content so next time you get like let's say a Timeless Helmet it'll be worthless to even think of selling on the AH thus <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the economy of the game further more ( which is already broken mind you ) ?

    Mind you a slight leap in the wrong direction be it content /gear wise or skill balance ( look at what happened to the Devoited Cleric population after the last patch lol ) right now might ruin this game forever to the point of no return , do you really want that to happen ?
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    No thanks. I like occasionally getting loot worth putting on the AH.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • bcvaporbcvapor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 285 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    The economy is just borked until the BoP idea is sorted and implemented. Until then, we are in a holding pattern anyway.

    The game is already ruined everyday, as most of the game is group play in dungeons (at cap). Most of you who PuG must be aware of how terrible it is right now particularly with leavers and such. You can penalize the hell out of every behavior you don't like, or asses and attack the cause of the problem. I believe dungeons should be re-tuned since the patch, and adds removed for the most part.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    bcvapor wrote: »
    The economy is just borked until the BoP idea is sorted and implemented. Until then, we are in a holding pattern anyway.

    The game is already ruined everyday, as most of the game is group play in dungeons (at cap). Most of you who PuG must be aware of how terrible it is right now particularly with leavers and such. You can penalize the hell out of every behavior you don't like, or asses and attack the cause of the problem. I believe dungeons should be re-tuned since the patch, and adds removed for the most part.

    I find pugs exciting. I just did an epic mad dragon where 1 dps was in a mix of greens and blues.


    Game doesn't need easier dungeons. It needs the ability to add players mid dungeon.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • mhblis1mhblis1 Member Posts: 167 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I personally like the the difficulty. Most fails I've been in have been because people do stupid things or don't know how their skills work together. most of them got turned around to when people started working together. Funnily enough that is exactly what the devs said they wanted right from the start.

    ie. I love seeing TR's stand in the red circles and not even have Impossible to catch up. This is usually followed by "Why didnt you heal me".

    That said they could have the same effect with other effects than just spawn more adds.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Language has been a huge barrier in pugs.

    Try explaining the aboleth overseer in broken Spanish sometime...
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • pednickpednick Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The adds are ridiculously too much, they said they toned it down but they didn't, I guess these devs over do when they nerf and under do when they tone down.
    Be a Leet D00D, can't think of something smart? Always blame the economy.
  • demonsunderdemonsunder Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    they did tone it down, you should have seen frozen heart pre nerf.... I had 200+ adds chasing me on my tank.
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  • jelleh21jelleh21 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The biggest problem in PUGs is that basically every dungeon requires at least one CW, with two CWs making the dungeon trivial at times. However, without a CW I find that killing the last boss of just about any dungeon is near impossible, seeing as the only boss 'mechanic' in this game is ADDS, RANGED ADDS, ADDS THAT CONTROL SPAM YOU.
  • hellorcohellorco Member Posts: 82
    edited June 2013
    I pug all the time, just not blindly queuing because LFG is basically done in enclave /zone. If an instance is tuned to be completed in 1h with a pug of unexperienced people, it gets so trivial for everyone with basic knowledge that nobody would play it after first 2 runs.
    T1 instances can be done without any class requirement. I remember ending everything before t2 except mad dragon, in 3 or 4 because people left or dcd. The reality check came from T2 where there ARE class requirements (1 control, 1 healer at least) and after aggro changes some fight kind of requires a tank. Anyway every group also "requires" a TR, but most people forget about that.
  • levander2levander2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 54
    edited June 2013
    Fix the dungeons so we aren't throwing mobs off ledges 80% of the time.
  • jelleh21jelleh21 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    levander2 wrote: »
    Fix the dungeons so we aren't throwing mobs off ledges 80% of the time.

    They are in some dungeons. But that's all they're doing, stopping us from knocking them off ledges. So it'll just take that much longer to complete dungeons that are already monotonous and boring.
  • sanctumlolsanctumlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 382 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Dungeons are vry easy as it is.
  • degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I started this thread a while back on T2s and why they may not be worth it.
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  • myst969696myst969696 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Except Karrundax, most of the other dungeon are a mess to do with a pug.
    They're too hard compare to the Gear Score required and some bosses have way too much adds.

    It's just a matter of fact, just check how much GS people are asking for Spider or other T2... it's not only because they want to rush, I'm in a guild and several told me that most T2 are impossible to do with a basic T1 set.

    All T2 should be doable with just a basic T1 set as long as you have the minimum GS required by the tier.

    As it's not the case, then it means that there is a problem of design.

    All those who say the opposite are just overgeared people who want to keep the T2 as elitist as they are right now.
    I'm 100% sure that they'll never accept to do any of them with a group of 5 members with just a T1 tier set and not using any exploit.
  • eriabelleriabell Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 4
    edited June 2013
    I consider myself a casual player...have my Devoted Cleric in lvl 32, and i waaaaaay enjoy dungeons! Last one i did (which was also for the first time so far) was the one with the final boss being a Dragon (can't recall the name of the dungeon atm). It was soooo great and challenging!!! And i like the thing that you can only die 1 time. I died for the second time when the dragon was with 1/3 hp and i was no longer able to access the area. It was great (sad, actually, for me). Because i learned that i have to be better for the next time, which will probably be today when i get back from work.
    Dungeons are meant to be hard. That's the idea of a good challenge!
  • klixanklixan Member Posts: 447 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I agree with you OP. I hate the dungeons! I refuse to have anything to do with them. I ran a couple of them when I first started playing and that was enough for me. Never again!
  • dsolzdsolz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jelleh21 wrote: »
    They are in some dungeons. But that's all they're doing, stopping us from knocking them off ledges. So it'll just take that much longer to complete dungeons that are already monotonous and boring.


    Haha I find knocking adds off ledges exciting.
    I was having problem with clearing the last quest of skyhold area solo. I end up knocking them off with ice storm and shield. A friend using wizard ask me for help in the same quest while he is leveling as well. He told me he never had problem with that boss as a rouge but he has problem when using wizard. Told him to knock them off and sacrifice the boss item drop.

    Anyway jokes aside. Dungeon shld be more innovative instead of boss and a tones of adds.
    Maybe design something that needs coordination between players. Then people would start using he inbuilt voice system. I think I find the quest/dungeons in DDO more interesting.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I agree. The dungeons are seriously hard (for me at least). The amount of adds that spawn with the bosses, I believe, is where the majority of the difficulty is. For the casual player, it will be very difficult to learn the mechanics due to lack of play time available to us. The story that the game follows, the dungeons and what-not for the area quests, are also very difficult.

    Please guys, make the dungeons a bit more simple.. less adds or any thing else you can think of please..
  • fefeenahfefeenah Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    PLEASE don't make dungeons easier. Let's not turn this awesome game into another WoW!
  • axer128axer128 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    No.

    And you guys all saying yes without thnking are extremely inconsiderate of those of us who enjoy a challenge.

    For me and most of my guild, if theres no challenges, theres no fun. If the devs ruin the dungeons and remove the challenge, they will lose us and a huge chunk of the player base.

    So instead of being so callous and saying "Oh memememe make it so I can do it"

    Why not:

    Please developers, could you add a lower difficulty setting to the dungeons so that me and my non-hardcore friends could enjoy them too, while the players that enjoy the current difficulty could retain that choice?

    Many other mmos offer difficulty settings and they work quite well to help make the game appeal to players of multiple skill levels.

    Could have rename the current epics to legendary, and create a new easier epic mode, allowing you to select which ever you like when you click on the dungeons door (or the dreaded queue system).

    And yea put a higher GS req on the legendaries, cuz realistic atm doing say spider with 8300gs chars is essentially near-impossible for any but the best of the best (who never have such low GS's).
    Spider, CN and Epic dread vault should all require 10k, if not 10.5k.
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  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    myst969696 wrote: »
    Except Karrundax, most of the other dungeon are a mess to do with a pug.
    They're too hard compare to the Gear Score required and some bosses have way too much adds.

    It's just a matter of fact, just check how much GS people are asking for Spider or other T2... it's not only because they want to rush, I'm in a guild and several told me that most T2 are impossible to do with a basic T1 set.

    All T2 should be doable with just a basic T1 set as long as you have the minimum GS required by the tier.

    As it's not the case, then it means that there is a problem of design.

    All those who say the opposite are just overgeared people who want to keep the T2 as elitist as they are right now.
    I'm 100% sure that they'll never accept to do any of them with a group of 5 members with just a T1 tier set and not using any exploit.

    Karrundax is way too easy. That dungeon is easier then most of the t1 epics.


    It's not a matter of elitism. It's the positive feeling that comes from overcoming a challenge. There is already a mechanic in place who just want the gear for minimal work. It's called the Auction House.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    axer128 wrote: »

    And yea put a higher GS req on the legendaries, cuz realistic atm doing say spider with 8300gs chars is essentially near-impossible for any but the best of the best (who never have such low GS's).
    Spider, CN and Epic dread vault should all require 10k, if not 10.5k.


    Putting a GS on dungeons that would require you to have gear from those same places before you zone in for the first time is just a little stupid.
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • pilf3rpilf3r Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    axer128 wrote: »
    No.

    And you guys all saying yes without thnking are extremely inconsiderate of those of us who enjoy a challenge.

    For me and most of my guild, if theres no challenges, theres no fun. If the devs ruin the dungeons and remove the challenge, they will lose us and a huge chunk of the player base.

    So instead of being so callous and saying "Oh memememe make it so I can do it"

    Why not:

    Please developers, could you add a lower difficulty setting to the dungeons so that me and my non-hardcore friends could enjoy them too, while the players that enjoy the current difficulty could retain that choice?

    Many other mmos offer difficulty settings and they work quite well to help make the game appeal to players of multiple skill levels.

    Could have rename the current epics to legendary, and create a new easier epic mode, allowing you to select which ever you like when you click on the dungeons door (or the dreaded queue system).

    And yea put a higher GS req on the legendaries, cuz realistic atm doing say spider with 8300gs chars is essentially near-impossible for any but the best of the best (who never have such low GS's).
    Spider, CN and Epic dread vault should all require 10k, if not 10.5k.

    Will you then push for gear being tiered too if this was implemented, like in DDO, Shade? Seeing as people were not doing the higher difficulty unless they had a "reason" too.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Neverwinter Thieves Guild
  • mavalonmavalon Member Posts: 88
    edited June 2013
    The way i imagined dungeons:

    Everyone on the boss with the GF tanking him.
    You have to focus because he does alot of aoe/cone attacks.

    Then if the boss had adds.
    The GWF and CW stop dpssing the boss and take care off the adds.
    At this the time the boss is slightly easyer to avoid.

    Adds down: everyone on boss again.
    With the boss doing his cone/aoe attacks faster then before.

    The massive add spawn has its charm but not for every fight...
  • demonsunderdemonsunder Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    No way, dungeons are way to easy as they are atm, currently there's no challenge in the game nothing is hard.

    WTB Nightmare mode, We need dungeons to be about 30% - 40% harder
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • mavalonmavalon Member Posts: 88
    edited June 2013
    No way, dungeons are way to easy as they are atm, currently there's no challenge in the game nothing is hard.

    WTB Nightmare mode, We need dungeons to be about 30% - 40% harder

    That will be tier 3 probably.
    But i hope its not mass adds for every boss again.
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