Knight's Captain set (vs Stalwart)

marwoodandi · June 2013

For someone that can't afford the Stalwarts Helm, I started looking at cheaper alternatives for PvE. The stats are comparable of course - Defense and Regen are similar, and Knight's has more Power and Recovery vs Deflection on the Stalwart. The main difference obviously is in the set bonuses. Knight's gets the sexy Armor Pen (Defense on Stal), but 4-pc is the main point of my post.

Stalwart's is God-like for PvP and PvE damage, but how much does KC actually improve the group DPS? 60% power and 25% defense (for those adds that get away) to the group seems amazing, but I've no idea if there is an internal cooldown or something. For someone that doesn't care about topping the damage charts, wouldn't KC result in an overall faster run?

hadran1 · June 2013

if your group is good, yes knight captain is nice, every time you cast a enconter or daily it buffs the party, 100% buff uptime, if your pugging with bad group, like CWs that keep throwing mobs miles away while grouping with the highest AOE melee class, better wear stal and deal with everything yourself.

mhblis1 · June 2013

There is also still some questions about the set but from the look of it Knights adds far more to the group.
I was trying to get answers here http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?363421-Knights-Captain-Set-Bonus-Questions-GFT1

abombination247 · June 2013

High Generals set I feel is the best GF set. More stats, more def, regen and a 10% crit buff to party. I love the set. With that being said. I mix High general and 2pc Knights capt. for PvP. Why 450arm pen buff from high general and 400 from capt. Ill mix and match for 850 free Arm pen. Not only that your gear score actually goes up considerably this way cause of how many stats you get from both sets. Cheaper and better in my opinion.

dkcandy · June 2013

<----I run a 4/4 Knight Cap set and it works great for both PvP & PvE.

Knight Cap is the T1 version of Timeless T2.

Timeless is still the best PvP Set but Stal is best PvE set (till it's nerfed).

I went with the Knight Cap set and sold my Stal set.

Also keep in mind that new content is coming in a few months and expect new sets maybe even T3. I recommend banking as much AD as possible and get the cheaper Knight Cap set and basic enchants. Save that AD till new content.

testopump1 · June 2013

abombination247 wrote: »

High Generals set I feel is the best GF set. More stats, more def, regen and a 10% crit buff to party. I love the set. With that being said. I mix High general and 2pc Knights capt. for PvP. Why 450arm pen buff from high general and 400 from capt. Ill mix and match for 850 free Arm pen. Not only that your gear score actually goes up considerably this way cause of how many stats you get from both sets. Cheaper and better in my opinion.

But the set bonus only procs when you crit, right? So doesn't that actually thwart the usefulness of the set since you would have to stack crit rating instead of defensive stats/ArP?

I have actually also been thinking about the general usefulness of other sets too; so far only Grand Regent, Stalwart, Timeless and Knight Captain's seem useful/even remotely useful. (This is talking about PvE). What is the standing of Indomitable Warrior or Valiant Warrior sets, for example? Utter **** or maybe of some use? Since I bought the Guardian founder's pack (unfortunately), I have almost 700k AD sitting idly and since I don't know jack **** of this game and it's mechanics, I am just browsing through AH and wondering what to get. How would you guys rate the current GF sets in numerical order PvE-wise?

dkcandy · June 2013

PvE "Selfish" GFs

1. Stal 7k+ Power Bonus
2. Timeless + CRT Chance Bonus

PvE "Group Buff" GFs
1. Knights Cap + 60% Bonus Power & 25% Bonus Defense to group members (not self)
Note: The 25% Defense bonus is = to Cleric AS (blue ring of life)

This is why I chose this set of all three sets because it benefits your team more than any other set. GF's are not there to DPS Boss or Trash, they are their to be a utility class and this set fits that category.

I wouldn't use any other set besides those 3 sets.

mhblis1 · June 2013

I'll ask this again here since no one is testing this. What is the range on the Knights Captain set. The RNG hates me and I've only 2 pieces so far. I would love someone who has the set to go find this out. It's not hard to test in places like Rothe valley tunnel or even in PVP training dummies.

I keep asking this since the only place this buff matters to a geared group is on final bosses and usually end up fairly spread out.

dkcandy · June 2013

I've never checked the range as it says "party" if it's like other buffs maybe 50 yards. I'll have to check later tonight.

rumpleforesk1n · June 2013

A little off-topic here...

But is anyone mixing the old level 42 pieces with the new level 60 pieces of the T1 sets and not getting credit for having all 4?

desjardinii · June 2013

We have done some ruff testing with the captain set and it seem to equate 60% power to a rough 20% damage increase, depending on where everyone was at. One thing that we ahve done quite a few times is run 2 tanks when we are tank heavy with members online. One in KC, the other in Stalwarts. With that setup, I've managed to hit 16K power in my stalwarts when both proc. As far as teh question about the generals set and crit, I havent had an issue, and I dont stone for crit, I run armorpen stones mainly. With my gear I am at 21% Crit. Even without the rogue buff, I still seem to crit enough to keep it up a decent amount of time. I would 100% agree with DKCandy that the KC set is best for a group, as it provides better group support.

In the end it comes down to someone wanting to have their own DPS numbers high, or give that away a bit to increase everyone elses.

desjardinii · June 2013

rumpleforesk1n wrote: »

A little off-topic here...

But is anyone mixing the old level 42 pieces with the new level 60 pieces of the T1 sets and not getting credit for having all 4?

Currently that is broke. Old lower and new 60 do not mix properly.

rumpleforesk1n · June 2013

That's... annoying.

Thanks

vidfinnx · June 2013

how to slot with this gearing?
knights set

desjardinii · June 2013

vidfinnx wrote: »

how to slot with this gearing?
knights set

Personally, based on my other gear I have, I stacked Dark for Offense and Utility, and at the time I went with radiant for Defense. Looking at things now, Id possibly swap out the defense for something else. I havent ran this set lately, as I've been playing with Stalwarts and lifesteal gear.

dkcandy · June 2013

vidfinnx wrote: »

how to slot with this gearing?
knights set

I'm working on T-10 Radiant for all offensive for max power because of Conqueror Feat, just amazing for PvE. Max HP for Defense or Deflect & Movement for Utility.

My Pet (Stone) Gives me softcap for ArP (24%) & Lots of CRT.

dkcandy · June 2013

desjardinii wrote: »

We have done some ruff testing with the captain set and it seem to equate 60% power to a rough 20% damage increase, depending on where everyone was at. One thing that we ahve done quite a few times is run 2 tanks when we are tank heavy with members online. One in KC, the other in Stalwarts. With that setup, I've managed to hit 16K power in my stalwarts when both proc. As far as teh question about the generals set and crit, I havent had an issue, and I dont stone for crit, I run armorpen stones mainly. With my gear I am at 21% Crit. Even without the rogue buff, I still seem to crit enough to keep it up a decent amount of time. I would 100% agree with DKCandy that the KC set is best for a group, as it provides better group support.

In the end it comes down to someone wanting to have their own DPS numbers high, or give that away a bit to increase everyone elses.

If you want speed runs have a guildmate build a KC Set. When you are doing 10MIL+ a run that boost is so noticeable as trash melts so fast and everyone is more tanky. Last night was a great example: My bud runs Timeless with 10.5k Power & Perfect Vorpal and has around 17k Power 100% of the run because of the buff. With Perfect Plaguefire & Other debuffs bosses/trash melt.

desjardinii · June 2013

dkcandy wrote: »

I'm working on T-10 Radiant for all offensive for max power because of Conqueror Feat, just amazing for PvE. Max HP for Defense or Deflect & Movement for Utility.

My Pet (Stone) Gives me softcap for ArP (24%) & Lots of CRT.

Hmmm...Havent thought of it that way. But im currently at level 7 for most of my stones. Id suppose as I level some up higher Id be able to swap over.

desjardinii · June 2013

Also the beauty of the KC set is that you can get a complete set right now in Mindlfayer for about 100K AD. Thats more AD you can put into Stones or other gear.

vidfinnx · June 2013

dkcandy wrote: »

I'm working on T-10 Radiant for all offensive for max power because of Conqueror Feat, just amazing for PvE. Max HP for Defense or Deflect & Movement for Utility.

My Pet (Stone) Gives me softcap for ArP (24%) & Lots of CRT.

does this work out good for pvp? power instead of crit? i tried it in pvp lol i was squishy as all hell in it

masu84 · June 2013

DONT use full sets. Normal items with good stats are much better then EVERY T2 set! GF sets are providing Recovery, little power and defense (and useless deflection). No Crit, no ArPen = no damage.

etherealj · June 2013

masu84 wrote: »

DONT use full sets. Normal items with good stats are much better then EVERY T2 set! GF sets are providing Recovery, little power and defense (and useless deflection). No Crit, no ArPen = no damage.

Stalwart and Timeless provide tons of power and it doesn't take a lot of work past a stone to get capped arp.

What a strange post.

vidfinnx · June 2013

What would be a good way to gem knights captain set for pvpve
Unfortunately i have discovered in pugs that a little extra defense seems to help
Because you either get A. A cleric that under heals B. No CC at all or CW that blow stuff all over
C. Dps that takes longer to kill. This set is squishier than my stalwart set but the bonus
It provides is pretty awesome to a group. Which is why im trying to main using this set instead of my stalwart.

vidfinnx · June 2013

Currently i have the fight on (recharge reduction) and crushing pin feats
Im wondering whether i should drop one or both for the deflection and ac feats

desjardinii · June 2013

vidfinnx wrote: »

What would be a good way to gem knights captain set for pvpve
Unfortunately i have discovered in pugs that a little extra defense seems to help
Because you either get A. A cleric that under heals B. No CC at all or CW that blow stuff all over
C. Dps that takes longer to kill. This set is squishier than my stalwart set but the bonus
It provides is pretty awesome to a group. Which is why im trying to main using this set instead of my stalwart.

As far as squishier...not sure how much so. While it lacks the deflection of the stalwarts, I dont notice a huge difference in the amount of damage I take when using the KC vs. stalwarts vs High general. The T2 gives you +1 AC which is .5% of damage reduction. Also with the power boost for your group, you are inproving your heals. I went with Dark for utility for the movement bonus. I find that helps when the mobs surround you and they get combat advantage on you. As far as defense slots, kinda depends on your build and where your shortfalls are. What to enchant with can vary also depending on the level of stones as well.

eternal256 · June 2013

etherealj wrote: »

Stalwart and Timeless provide tons of power and it doesn't take a lot of work past a stone to get capped arp.

What a strange post.

Except that power scales so horridly with your stats thats its not even funny. An extra 8k "barely" increases your damage sadly.. TBH, I would rather take sets that gives any other primary stat than power for a gf since power seems to barely increase your dmg whatsoever. Its pathetic.

Of course, you could just use another tier set...albeit one that ACTUALLY helps your party....and does what a tank should be doing..

etherealj · June 2013

eternal256 wrote: »

Except that power scales so horridly with your stats thats its not even funny. An extra 8k "barely" increases your damage sadly.. TBH, I would rather take sets that gives any other primary stat than power for a gf since power seems to barely increase your dmg whatsoever. Its pathetic.

Of course, you could just use another tier set...albeit one that ACTUALLY helps your party....and does what a tank should be doing..

Once you soft cap your armor pen and recovery, power is perfectly fine. When stalwart is stacked my cleave tooltip increases by 30%.

My damage increasing dramatically does help my party. What a tank should be doing? Please.

Edit: the 4pc stalwart bonus alone makes prot and tact potentially worth using since you basically keep Conq's agro gen but get the other capstones.

dkcandy · June 2013

eternal256 wrote: »

Except that power scales so horridly with your stats thats its not even funny. An extra 8k "barely" increases your damage sadly.. TBH, I would rather take sets that gives any other primary stat than power for a gf since power seems to barely increase your dmg whatsoever. Its pathetic.

Of course, you could just use another tier set...albeit one that ACTUALLY helps your party....and does what a tank should be doing..

Knight Cap 4/4 Set
PvE - Pet ArP SoftCap & CRT
PvE - Self - Radiant T9/10 in all Offensive
PvE - Conqueror Build - Win/Win
PvE - Perfect Plague Fire

Timeless 4/4 Set
PvE - Pet ArP SoftCap & Recovery/CRT
PvE - Self - Radiant T9/10 in all Offensive
PvE - Conqueror Build - Win/Win
PvE - Perfect Vorpal

Stal 4/4 Set
PvE - Pet ArP Softcap & CRT
PvE - Self - CRT or Power
PvE - Tank or Conqueror
PvE - Perfect Plague Fire or Vorpal (If you stack CRT then Vorpal / If you stack Power than Plague Fire)

Conqueror reckless does not increase Power from Buffs. (This means Stal 4pc Bonus & Pet Power does not double from Reckless)

Knight Cap & Timeless sets are perfect for Conqueror while STAL allows flexibility in feats.

willsommers · June 2013

I like the Knight set. It seems something a tank should be doing, helping the party. I still generally end up in the top 3 with damage and that's with regular enchants on my gear. It seems like a good compromise and I picked mine up (at the time) for like 1/4 or less the cost of stalwart. It's certainly a better "value" in equipment especially for someone like me that plays 3-4 char at one time.

if I need a little more defense I switch out crusher shield/lizard sword with the ancient set, but it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference above the soft cap because it scales so poorly.

trollgre · June 2013

knight captain is the best for support tank, the only bad thing about it is it doesnt apply to yourself

inc party power and def
clerics heal will also increase

try troll warhammer it is also good for a tank has high def deflect and arpen

vidfinnx · June 2013

deflection is very noticeable especially when spamming enforced threat, i wish i could feel that tanky using knights set, i would use it full time, i even slotted deflection stones

Knight's Captain set (vs Stalwart)

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