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What is wrong with this game and how to fix it
yesbrasilyes
Member Posts: 39
Let me start by saying this is going to be a decent sized post with the intention of pointing out flaws in the design of content that I think most players would agree with. Feel free to add on with things you agree / disagree with.
Now, lets get a few things straight.
- I understand Cryptic does not have the budget of a huge company like Blizzard and developing new content and balancing new content is sure to be difficult.
- Let me just say congrats on releasing a fun new game. It has a good and stable engine, combat is fun, and I enjoy the feel of the game overall.
Now, the problems that everyone has been complaining about, as well as problems I have personally experienced, and my suggested solutions. To anyone adding their input, including myself, keep in mind we have no inside information on Cryptic's staff or development team, we don't know their budget, so rather than say something like "design and balance 5 new classes immediately", lets try to keep it feasible.
That said, here we go...
(1) End game content is not fun. As it stands, Castle Never is the "Endgame" dungeon / raid in the game. For those that haven't done it, Castle Never involves 4 bosses, a bunch of trash, and a bunch of exploits. This dungeon does not feel how endgame content should feel. It is not challenging, rather just a way to kill time and earn AD. Most groups in fact use an exploit to skip to the last boss and spam farm Dracolich, therefore flooding the AH with the most powerful equipment for cheap prices.
The first thing that needs to be done to fix these problems is to rework Castle Never itself. I understand Cryptic wants to keep this game small scale for now. This is understandable, 10-20 man raids would require a lot of balance that they probably don't have the manpower for at this point.
Keeping this in mind, here are my proposed changes for Castle Never as well as reasons behind them.
(a) Make the dungeon more challenging, easiest change would be to buff the adds for the first 3 bosses, and add a big add that spawns during Dracolich at 20% intervals that is immune to CC (this would also promote the use of tanks)
(b) Make the dungeon have a 2-3 day reset. None of us want to endlessly grind the same instance over and over. However, running a more challenging instance with a specific group of friends every few days can keep people interested in the game for a longer period of time. This would also discourage people from exploiting, if you can only do the instance once every 3 days, might as well kill all the bosses.
(c) Increase the rank of enchantments dropped within the dungeon, and add a vendor for ashes of the past that sells enchants. This would make the trash less mind numbing and discourage people from knocking everything off ledges, therefore rewarding groups that take the time to clear trash. Obviously effort has been put into preventing skips and shortcuts, think outside the box here, a 3 day reset would fix most of these problems.
(d) Fix the ancient belts necks and rings. As it stands, the armor pen / crit / power ring has a defense slot. Regardless of whether or not this was intended, fix it. Also, change a few of the belts to have an offense slot, people should not be using blues over ancient equipment. These changes would also encourage groups to kill all the bosses within the instance.
- Remember, at the end of the day, you shouldn't be trying to stop players from skipping content; you should be trying to fix your content so that players want to experience it. I'm telling you, the current reason is the reward is not worth the time invested.
(2) Now that we have fixed Castle Never (using easy fixes) we have stopped the bleeding, but still need new content.
Castle Never has been farmed to oblivion by everyone up until now, and even the changes proposed won't change the fact that the market is flooded with Dracolich gear. However, if there were 3 day raid resets, new content could be released with a similar lockout and give players the endgame PvE to satisfy for a much more extended period of time.
I know the new content being released with Module 1 is expected to have the next tier of equipment. But please, heed my advice and release the content with a lockout. If the new content turns out to be too easy, then you can scale it up before the market is flooded with equipment and players lose reason to participate in the module.
(3) Now, the next problem area, organized PvP, both small and large scale.
Gauntlygrym, to put it nicely, is extremely niche. You will have people on these forums praising the originality of the event and the fundamental idea behind it, but as a whole, the content is lacking. Gauntlygrym, for those who played WoW, is wintergrasp. It is a cute place to go play when you are bored and want to do some siege style PvP and then go kill a boss to get T2 gear.
However, wintergrasp was a faster and more efficient way to get PvP gear, PvE gear, and other cool equipment, such as PvP enchants, mounts, etc...
Don't try to fix Gauntlygrym, just make it what it is, a wintergrasp. Make it so you can only do the PvE content once every 3 days, on a lockout, and ensure a T2 drop per person for the dungeon. Otherwise, there is no point to experience the content, it has to have at least equivalent efficiency of regular dungeons, or why bother running it.
Make the Gauntlygrym tokens redeemable for whatever you want, mounts, fashion items, enchants, etc...thereby increasing participation even when players have completed the PvE portion. Gauntlygrym can be a nice a fun break from competitive PvP, but a 20v20 where you can't choose your team will never be competitive. AKA it is not the foundation of good competitive PvP.
This is my next suggestion for content development, a real 5v5 arena. 3v3, 2v2, whatever bracket you want to add. It doesn't matter if the game is perfectly balanced, get a good arena system going where the objective is to actually fight and kill another team rather than capture points or nodes or fire elemental essence or whatever. Add arena, and add a ladder system for it. I understand this content may be difficult to design, but it is a never ending source of satisfaction for competitive PvP players. This should be priority #1 for PvP development, and honestly I feel like it should have been released prior to Gauntlygrym.
(4) Lastly, I want to point out that I did not overlook the addition of more classes, however I feel they are currently already working on those, having heard the cries from players. My suggestions involve the endgame longevity of the game. My character has done everything there is to do endgame wise, and am disappointed with the ease at which I did so, as well as the lack of new content coming our way. If Module 1 is anything like Castle Never, I will be moving on to another game.
I'm sure my advice will fall on deaf ears...but Cryptic, if you are interested in increasing your player base and giving said players a reason to stick around, you will listen to the things I have to say.
You are welcome for the free advice.
Now, lets get a few things straight.
- I understand Cryptic does not have the budget of a huge company like Blizzard and developing new content and balancing new content is sure to be difficult.
- Let me just say congrats on releasing a fun new game. It has a good and stable engine, combat is fun, and I enjoy the feel of the game overall.
Now, the problems that everyone has been complaining about, as well as problems I have personally experienced, and my suggested solutions. To anyone adding their input, including myself, keep in mind we have no inside information on Cryptic's staff or development team, we don't know their budget, so rather than say something like "design and balance 5 new classes immediately", lets try to keep it feasible.
That said, here we go...
(1) End game content is not fun. As it stands, Castle Never is the "Endgame" dungeon / raid in the game. For those that haven't done it, Castle Never involves 4 bosses, a bunch of trash, and a bunch of exploits. This dungeon does not feel how endgame content should feel. It is not challenging, rather just a way to kill time and earn AD. Most groups in fact use an exploit to skip to the last boss and spam farm Dracolich, therefore flooding the AH with the most powerful equipment for cheap prices.
The first thing that needs to be done to fix these problems is to rework Castle Never itself. I understand Cryptic wants to keep this game small scale for now. This is understandable, 10-20 man raids would require a lot of balance that they probably don't have the manpower for at this point.
Keeping this in mind, here are my proposed changes for Castle Never as well as reasons behind them.
(a) Make the dungeon more challenging, easiest change would be to buff the adds for the first 3 bosses, and add a big add that spawns during Dracolich at 20% intervals that is immune to CC (this would also promote the use of tanks)
(b) Make the dungeon have a 2-3 day reset. None of us want to endlessly grind the same instance over and over. However, running a more challenging instance with a specific group of friends every few days can keep people interested in the game for a longer period of time. This would also discourage people from exploiting, if you can only do the instance once every 3 days, might as well kill all the bosses.
(c) Increase the rank of enchantments dropped within the dungeon, and add a vendor for ashes of the past that sells enchants. This would make the trash less mind numbing and discourage people from knocking everything off ledges, therefore rewarding groups that take the time to clear trash. Obviously effort has been put into preventing skips and shortcuts, think outside the box here, a 3 day reset would fix most of these problems.
(d) Fix the ancient belts necks and rings. As it stands, the armor pen / crit / power ring has a defense slot. Regardless of whether or not this was intended, fix it. Also, change a few of the belts to have an offense slot, people should not be using blues over ancient equipment. These changes would also encourage groups to kill all the bosses within the instance.
- Remember, at the end of the day, you shouldn't be trying to stop players from skipping content; you should be trying to fix your content so that players want to experience it. I'm telling you, the current reason is the reward is not worth the time invested.
(2) Now that we have fixed Castle Never (using easy fixes) we have stopped the bleeding, but still need new content.
Castle Never has been farmed to oblivion by everyone up until now, and even the changes proposed won't change the fact that the market is flooded with Dracolich gear. However, if there were 3 day raid resets, new content could be released with a similar lockout and give players the endgame PvE to satisfy for a much more extended period of time.
I know the new content being released with Module 1 is expected to have the next tier of equipment. But please, heed my advice and release the content with a lockout. If the new content turns out to be too easy, then you can scale it up before the market is flooded with equipment and players lose reason to participate in the module.
(3) Now, the next problem area, organized PvP, both small and large scale.
Gauntlygrym, to put it nicely, is extremely niche. You will have people on these forums praising the originality of the event and the fundamental idea behind it, but as a whole, the content is lacking. Gauntlygrym, for those who played WoW, is wintergrasp. It is a cute place to go play when you are bored and want to do some siege style PvP and then go kill a boss to get T2 gear.
However, wintergrasp was a faster and more efficient way to get PvP gear, PvE gear, and other cool equipment, such as PvP enchants, mounts, etc...
Don't try to fix Gauntlygrym, just make it what it is, a wintergrasp. Make it so you can only do the PvE content once every 3 days, on a lockout, and ensure a T2 drop per person for the dungeon. Otherwise, there is no point to experience the content, it has to have at least equivalent efficiency of regular dungeons, or why bother running it.
Make the Gauntlygrym tokens redeemable for whatever you want, mounts, fashion items, enchants, etc...thereby increasing participation even when players have completed the PvE portion. Gauntlygrym can be a nice a fun break from competitive PvP, but a 20v20 where you can't choose your team will never be competitive. AKA it is not the foundation of good competitive PvP.
This is my next suggestion for content development, a real 5v5 arena. 3v3, 2v2, whatever bracket you want to add. It doesn't matter if the game is perfectly balanced, get a good arena system going where the objective is to actually fight and kill another team rather than capture points or nodes or fire elemental essence or whatever. Add arena, and add a ladder system for it. I understand this content may be difficult to design, but it is a never ending source of satisfaction for competitive PvP players. This should be priority #1 for PvP development, and honestly I feel like it should have been released prior to Gauntlygrym.
(4) Lastly, I want to point out that I did not overlook the addition of more classes, however I feel they are currently already working on those, having heard the cries from players. My suggestions involve the endgame longevity of the game. My character has done everything there is to do endgame wise, and am disappointed with the ease at which I did so, as well as the lack of new content coming our way. If Module 1 is anything like Castle Never, I will be moving on to another game.
I'm sure my advice will fall on deaf ears...but Cryptic, if you are interested in increasing your player base and giving said players a reason to stick around, you will listen to the things I have to say.
You are welcome for the free advice.
Post edited by yesbrasilyes on
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Comments
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?901-Bugs-Reports
^FIX THESE
I disagree, who cares if a game nobody wants to play has bugs in it? Endgame content that will maintain the player base for me please.
I like things pretty much the way they are. A little more end content in my opinion would be fun. But can live with it or not. Or I can leave if I do not like it.
Everyone has their own perfect version of what an MMO should be. My thoughts and opinions are based on what will keep a player base around for the long-haul. If you are content dicking around in foundries and role playing I won't tell you that you're wrong, but you sir are in the minority.
So instead of trying to help or create ideas for something you invest time in, you would rather just sit around and watch it crumble?
As this game stands, it will be less successful than anything else they have done. The grind to end game content doesn't exist. It's a quick jog to max level and a quick job to get pretty geared up. And then what? And this isn't because people rush.
Yes, and I explained my reasons behind it in above post if you read it. Calling it endgame is almost a joke considering it was being spam farmed before the actual "release" of this game.
Buff the bosses and add a timer please =D
Sorry, no factual information. You add a timer to CN, you effectively kill endgame. Won't happen. And yes, I did rad the poorly thought wall of text in its entirety. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt but I suspect you have your gear. Hilarious
What about fewer people wanting to spend money on a game full of bugs. Your opinion =/= only opinion. I'd rather have bugfixes than new content full of exploits that mess up the game further. Gauntlgrym is proof that new content is not always better.
Until then what you are saying is a guess based on your opinion!
Well rad through it again, because you clearly did not comprehend it
I do have all my gear, and the lockout was not the only suggested solution. Note I also suggested increasing the difficulty of the bosses.
As with any new content, players will eventually get it on farm status, and an instance lockout would slow down the rate at which players received their gear, without increasing time invested. Its only a 5 man "raid" and there are only 10 possible drops. With a 3 day lockout, if you ran a group of 1 of each class, you could have everyone full geared in 10 runs, or 30 days. Lets say you get unlucky, bad drops, and it takes you twice as long. Extra loot can be sold for a larger profit seeing as the market wont be flooded, and everyone in your team would be geared within at least a month and a half.
The developers don't have the manpower to release new content any faster than that. I stand by my comments and reasoning, thanks for bringing trollololol hate to this thread though, wouldn't be the internet without people like you.
My opinion is based on experience. I am not here to take a dump on what you enjoy within a game or how you spend your time. However, in all the MMOs I have played, progression based content keeps people playing and feeling productive about the development and customization of their characters.
There is nothing wrong with being in the minority, but blindly defending a game that you happen to love won't make people stick around, and unfortunately, however satisfied you may be, the game will be scrapped if you are the only one playing it.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?362081-About-the-game-going-live-Are-you-disappointed-or-not-and-why
Over 70% disapproval rate of the release, and that number likely does not include the 80% of my guild that already quit logging in due to the direction this game was headed.
You are right, bugs are also a problem that needs to be fixed. By all means new content is not always better, but we disagree as to why Gauntlygrym is fundamentally flawed. You believe it is too buggy to be played / enjoyed properly, I believe that it is niche content that does not add any progression for players be it PvE or PvP, and I would not enjoy it half as much as a new raid or arena system even if it ran flawlessly.
I don't understand what you necessarily disagree with. Do you feel that my proposed solutions would not fix the economy and slow down progression, therefore giving players reason to stick around?
Are you already level 60? If not what will you do when you have farmed all of your equipment in 2 weeks, sit on your hands until module 1? Or happily grind menial content until you have your rank 10 enchantments?
I am fairly open minded, if you present a sound reason as to why my idea will not work and presented a better solutions I will be the first to hop on board.
-Make it more challenging
-Slow progression down
-Add PvP ladders to retain competitive PvP'rs (would also increase streaming and game popularity)
P.S I don't use a blue belt on myself i actually value the hit points and some defense
Are you even close to being smart enough to realise that people don't want to play the game because of the bugs?
No, probably not.
All The Best
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Or, say, Castle Never where you can just instakill all the add's. Sure you can do it right, or you can do it right now.
Worst dungeon mechanic ever. It's fun and interesting the first time, until you realize it's in the end game dungeon too. That made me laugh when I found out about it.
The best part is i'm not even sure if Cryptic intended it or if it's considered an exploit. I guess I'll just need to wait and see if the topic gets locked down and my account banned eh?
Jesus...
Obviously I'm not in favor of bugs. Please...fix them. I'm sure for some people bugs are the biggest deterrent to them playing this game. For me, it is the lack of having anything to do.
It is my opinion that fixing the bugs and adding / fixing content both must happen before this game is truly enjoyable.
If all you got from reading this thread was that I am somehow pro-bug then there was a massive failure in communication.
I thought of this also when thinking how to make the dungeon more challenging, here was the reasoning for me coming to the conclusion I did.
I am not a game developer. I do not write code. I do not know how complicated it is to add invisible walls, but it must not be the easiest thing in the world, because the invisible walls added to Castle Never with the intentions of preventing a certain skip is not functioning.
If they were to attempt to write the code to completely encircle the rails of the Dracolich area, there were surely be a gap that people would find and thus would just be knocking the mobs off in a particular spot. Players will find bugs and exploits just as water will find its way through cracks in your roof.
Adding a big mob that spawned at 20% intervals, say a super wight or something, I assumed would be easier.
-They already have the model for it, would basically just need to set the spawn point.
-They already have the code written for mobs to be immune to control (see spellplague last boss)
-They already have the code for health % triggers (see Dracolich hands)
-This change would also promote the use of GFs and GWFs to tank said big add (group variety is a good thing in my opinion)
For these reasons I chose the idea of adding the big mob spawn. However in the future, I agree that new fight mechanics that do not involve 1 particular class using 2 particular skills to control huge waves of adds would be recommended.
As stated in my original post (and the guy in this thread complaining about bugs in general), I am sure Cryptic has a lot on their plate, and my solutions are intended to not only solve problems but in the easiest manner possible.
About skipping the bosses, I was trying to think of a good solution for that too. Perhaps in future dungeons, make different requirements (example gather tomes in spellplague) that need to be met before an immunity buff is removed from the corresponding boss.
This would be an easy way to prevent players from using ridiculous skips to rush to the last boss.
Also, make the bosses other than final boss drop things that aren't completely worthless. Like I said in my original post, rather than forcing players to grind content, make the content fun and rewarding so that players choose to grind it.
How else do you balance the end game enchants other than making people actually kill the monsters in a given dungeon? Making everything take forever isn't an option at this point. As the OP pointed out the market is flooded, if you close the gates it's going to result in a really interesting looking graph on player wealth disparity.
YOU do not speak for me or anyone else in the game....you only speak for yourself.
And personally I feel you are wrong.... bug fixes first imho
And have you been blind to all the posts about bosses being "too hard" already? To appeal to everyone (which, in my opinion, is a bad idea), the company needs to try and please the lowest common denominator first. If casual players can't beat end game, what will make them come back to play the next day? Loss of customers means loss of money, you know.
They can open their wallet and buy the gear to run the content, which is completely backwards in every way possible but also highly profitable. For a while. Both to certain members of the community and the developers themselves. One of the currencies has value, one of them really does not.
Thats fine, this isn't a thread about content vs. bug fixes.
If Cryptic released a statement saying "this is what we are working on and this is our priority" and the order was:
(1) Fix bugs
(2) Do all the stuff I said =P
I would be completely fine with that. However, there has been no indication that PvE or PvP is headed in any other direction than a nose dive. I'm sure there are people out there still leveling who aren't even 60 yet or have not explored T2 / Castle Never content and have yet to experience the same frustrations as me.
I don't expect Cryptic to magically pull a new raid out of a hat, but when given no information on the direction of the game I have to assume that they intend to keep it as it is.
-Castle Never: No lockout, grindy repeatable, gets boring fast
-Gauntlygrym: No lockout, grindy repeatable, will get boring fast
-Module 1: ???
This means no challenging content, no competitive PvP. No reason to play for many people, if you don't fall into this category, congrats. When all the people who quit because they are not satisfied with meaningless PvP / foundries after they have speed farmed best in slot equipment, you can hope Cryptic's income does not suffer to the point where a scrap date is announced.