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Guide to supportive tank (GF)
juguer1
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 15 Arc User
I would like to share with you the build I'm using since last patch, I don't know if this is the best build but indeed it's a solid build for PvE and PvP (when I say PvP I'm talking about winning matches, but you won't kill many ppl like you would with Envy's or Rokuthy's build).
Following this build you'll be able to:
PvE: Protect your party (holding aggro) and maximize their abilities to dps and survive possible harasses.
PvP: Hold the enemy's 'flag' alone against 2~3 guys time enough for your team get the other 2 flags. (Always works, check video below).
1. Picking a race and status
I recommend starting as a Dwarf or Human, they are both strong options for tanks. Pick the one you like most.
When rolling your base status you should focus on getting your CON as high as possible, however I think you can tank with any combination of status, at least have CON as your highest status.
Spend your points on CON and STR when leveling.
In my case I'm Human with 26 CON and 19 STR (at level 60, without camp buff)
2. Powers
With this you'll have the best at-wills (Cleave and Threatening Rush)
The best PvE supportive skills (Into the Fray and Knight's Valor)
A good skill to get AoE Aggro (Enforced Threat)
Most powerful tanking buff for PvP (Iron Warrior)
Good disables on PvP (Frontline Surge, Bull Charge, Indomitable Strenght)
And the funniest source of harass in PvP (Supremacy of Steel)
3. Feats
OMG! You don't get the ultimate feat from any tree, you are stupid!
Well, I don't think getting a 2% attack debuff on each hit (up to 10%) is a big deal, I think getting the feat that makes Into the Fray increase your allies damage by 5% much more consistent. Then you'll be with 1 point left, I've put it on Armor of Bahamut 'cause it has the biggest number among the other choices.
With these feats you'll have a better Into the Fray, a better aggro with Enforced Threat and a better resist with Knight's Valor. You only have to spam this 3 skills on PvE and everyone will be happy with you. Plus with AC and Deflect feats you'll be tough as any pure protector tank.
Update: Since Threatening Rush is considered a AoE control power, the feat Crushing Pin can be a better choice then Dauting Challenge. (Both are in the Tactician tree)
Note that I have 3 extra heroic feats because I'm human! If you have only 20 points on heroic feats, I recommend dropping Potent Challenge (Makes you generate 15% more threat, threat won't be a problem for you even without this feat)
4. Rotation
PvE: Threatening Rush, Cleave, Into the Fray, Enforced Threat, Knight's Valor, Villain's Menace, Fighter's Recovery, Shield Talent and Enhanced Mark.
Hint: Keep Knight's Valor to the moment you think your allies will take a big hit, spam Into the fray. Mark every mob all the time, you have a feat that reduces its damage when they are marked.
PvP: Cleave, Threatening Rush, Bull Charge, Frontline Surge, Iron Warrior, Supremacy of Steel, Indomitable Strenght, Shield Talent, Ferocious Reaction.
Hint: Buff Iron Warrior before a fight start and watch your guard meter lasting ridiculously longer. Keep your shield up ALWAYS.
5. Stats
Defense to the ~3500, then
Deflect to the ~2000, then
ArPen to the ~2000, then
Power as much as possible.
You can go for Recovery instead of Power, it'll help you spam your dailies.
Right now I have 5k defense, 3.5k deflect, 1.6k arpen and 2k power. This gives me 50.5% reduced damage and 28.5% deflection chance. I'm testing going over the diminishing returns, you probably don't need to go that far.
6. Gear
You have 2 very solid options here:
- Knight's Captain Set: Whenever you hit you have a chance to raise your allies Power by 60% and Defense by 20%.
Awesome buff!
- Stalwart Bulwark's Set: Every time you get hit you raise your Power by 5% of your max HP (up to 5 times). This set is great to compensate your lack of power, you can keep aggro better and can deal some harass during PvP matches. Getting hit 5 times before you start hitting ain't a problem for you now.
For the main hand and off-hand slots, try to get the Ancient Grand Knight's Longsword and the Ancient Grand Knight's Shield. (Both from Castle Never)
They complete a 2-part bonus set: +450 defense. They also have nice defense and deflection status.
I know these gear from castle never is quite hard to get, you can do well with any other main hand/off-hand until you can farm CN.
7. Enchants
On your chest you can have Negation or Soulforged. Soulforged performs better at PvP while Negation is better on PvE;
Negation: has a chance to give you a dmg resistance buff, procs when you get hit, 60sec cooldown.
Soulforged: makes you invulnerable whenever you get hit and your life is under 25%, 60sec cooldown;
On your wep I think Holy Avenger is the best option.
Holy Avenger: Whenever you hit an enemy, has a chance to give you and your allies a dmg resistance buff, 60sec cooldown.
8. Companions
The best companions at the moment are the Ioun Stone of Allure and the Cat.
They both give you stats of gear they are using and they have 6 slots for equipments, so you can use them to raise your stats. And they won't die in dungeons since they aren't targetable.
9. Links
My gateway profile
How much ArPen do I need?
10. Ending
Don't follow this guide like a blind guy, try to get the good ideas here and design your own build, which fits your play style.
I was able to finish every single dungeon until now using this build.
I'll try to add more things here, making this guide more complete.
To finish, I'll put a short video showing my job during PvP matches.
Tank Guardian Fighter PvP
Thank you for reading this, and sorry for my poor english lol.
Discussions are welcome!
Following this build you'll be able to:
PvE: Protect your party (holding aggro) and maximize their abilities to dps and survive possible harasses.
PvP: Hold the enemy's 'flag' alone against 2~3 guys time enough for your team get the other 2 flags. (Always works, check video below).
1. Picking a race and status
I recommend starting as a Dwarf or Human, they are both strong options for tanks. Pick the one you like most.
When rolling your base status you should focus on getting your CON as high as possible, however I think you can tank with any combination of status, at least have CON as your highest status.
Spend your points on CON and STR when leveling.
In my case I'm Human with 26 CON and 19 STR (at level 60, without camp buff)
2. Powers
With this you'll have the best at-wills (Cleave and Threatening Rush)
The best PvE supportive skills (Into the Fray and Knight's Valor)
A good skill to get AoE Aggro (Enforced Threat)
Most powerful tanking buff for PvP (Iron Warrior)
Good disables on PvP (Frontline Surge, Bull Charge, Indomitable Strenght)
And the funniest source of harass in PvP (Supremacy of Steel)
3. Feats
OMG! You don't get the ultimate feat from any tree, you are stupid!
Well, I don't think getting a 2% attack debuff on each hit (up to 10%) is a big deal, I think getting the feat that makes Into the Fray increase your allies damage by 5% much more consistent. Then you'll be with 1 point left, I've put it on Armor of Bahamut 'cause it has the biggest number among the other choices.
With these feats you'll have a better Into the Fray, a better aggro with Enforced Threat and a better resist with Knight's Valor. You only have to spam this 3 skills on PvE and everyone will be happy with you. Plus with AC and Deflect feats you'll be tough as any pure protector tank.
Update: Since Threatening Rush is considered a AoE control power, the feat Crushing Pin can be a better choice then Dauting Challenge. (Both are in the Tactician tree)
Note that I have 3 extra heroic feats because I'm human! If you have only 20 points on heroic feats, I recommend dropping Potent Challenge (Makes you generate 15% more threat, threat won't be a problem for you even without this feat)
4. Rotation
PvE: Threatening Rush, Cleave, Into the Fray, Enforced Threat, Knight's Valor, Villain's Menace, Fighter's Recovery, Shield Talent and Enhanced Mark.
Hint: Keep Knight's Valor to the moment you think your allies will take a big hit, spam Into the fray. Mark every mob all the time, you have a feat that reduces its damage when they are marked.
PvP: Cleave, Threatening Rush, Bull Charge, Frontline Surge, Iron Warrior, Supremacy of Steel, Indomitable Strenght, Shield Talent, Ferocious Reaction.
Hint: Buff Iron Warrior before a fight start and watch your guard meter lasting ridiculously longer. Keep your shield up ALWAYS.
5. Stats
Defense to the ~3500, then
Deflect to the ~2000, then
ArPen to the ~2000, then
Power as much as possible.
You can go for Recovery instead of Power, it'll help you spam your dailies.
Right now I have 5k defense, 3.5k deflect, 1.6k arpen and 2k power. This gives me 50.5% reduced damage and 28.5% deflection chance. I'm testing going over the diminishing returns, you probably don't need to go that far.
6. Gear
You have 2 very solid options here:
- Knight's Captain Set: Whenever you hit you have a chance to raise your allies Power by 60% and Defense by 20%.
Awesome buff!
- Stalwart Bulwark's Set: Every time you get hit you raise your Power by 5% of your max HP (up to 5 times). This set is great to compensate your lack of power, you can keep aggro better and can deal some harass during PvP matches. Getting hit 5 times before you start hitting ain't a problem for you now.
For the main hand and off-hand slots, try to get the Ancient Grand Knight's Longsword and the Ancient Grand Knight's Shield. (Both from Castle Never)
They complete a 2-part bonus set: +450 defense. They also have nice defense and deflection status.
I know these gear from castle never is quite hard to get, you can do well with any other main hand/off-hand until you can farm CN.
7. Enchants
On your chest you can have Negation or Soulforged. Soulforged performs better at PvP while Negation is better on PvE;
Negation: has a chance to give you a dmg resistance buff, procs when you get hit, 60sec cooldown.
Soulforged: makes you invulnerable whenever you get hit and your life is under 25%, 60sec cooldown;
On your wep I think Holy Avenger is the best option.
Holy Avenger: Whenever you hit an enemy, has a chance to give you and your allies a dmg resistance buff, 60sec cooldown.
8. Companions
The best companions at the moment are the Ioun Stone of Allure and the Cat.
They both give you stats of gear they are using and they have 6 slots for equipments, so you can use them to raise your stats. And they won't die in dungeons since they aren't targetable.
9. Links
My gateway profile
How much ArPen do I need?
10. Ending
Don't follow this guide like a blind guy, try to get the good ideas here and design your own build, which fits your play style.
I was able to finish every single dungeon until now using this build.
I'll try to add more things here, making this guide more complete.
To finish, I'll put a short video showing my job during PvP matches.
Tank Guardian Fighter PvP
Thank you for reading this, and sorry for my poor english lol.
Discussions are welcome!
Post edited by juguer1 on
0
Comments
On a side note, i keep seeing ppl say armor pen doesnt need to be any higher than about 1500. Even though it is widely known that bosses have 24% damage reduction. They usually say armor pen has DRs and i find that really hard to believe. Any idea why ppl claim this?
I didn't know Threatening Rush was considered a control power! Now I think crushing pin is a better choice than Daunting Challenge (marked targets deal 10% less damage to your party). Thanks for the info
Juguer's Gateway Profile (GF PvE)
Juguerz's Gateway Profile (GF PvP)
Dex bonus + ArPen bonus = Total Resists Ignored.
This guy breaks it down perfect.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?358391-Con-(GWF)-and-Dex-(GF)-are-now-addative-to-Armor-Penetration
^ This, sooooo much. I understand some GF builds have nice damage output, but it confuses me so much to see Guardian Fighters going DPS (compared to "Great Weapon Fighter"). The threat generation pre-patch instilled this notion that Guardian Fighters absolutely must do damage (not the case any more). It may sound weird, but I would welcome damage reductions to the Guardian Fighter to eliminate the DPS builds. If/Until we get a multi-specialization system set up (consider World of Warcraft, where you could have two specializations and switch between them easily), I'd rather Guardian Fighter only be able to tank.
you're upset because someone isnt playing the class the way you want them to?
im talking mostly about the boss fights with the ridiculous adds. on most trash pulls its fine.
Just wondering what companion to use? Is the stone of allure the best?
Cheers mates!
Sorry, I completely forgot about companions. Cat or Ion Stone of Allure are the best options (for any class I guess)
Juguer's Gateway Profile (GF PvE)
Juguerz's Gateway Profile (GF PvP)
I have seen Night and Day between dps builds and turtle build for GF and i still lean towards Turtle side.Not in any way bashing Dps tanky builds people use .They just didnt work for me When i said eailer between night and day between the builds is i would see my gear score be at 12,450 as tanky hybird But i took hellish alot of spike damage in long run but i did put out some decent numbers.As for Turtle build i would lose 2000 in GS but could take alot more damage and less spike damage .Dont know if Protector tree is not scoreing correctly but who knows. Anyways makes me really proud others are running builds like this aswell.Thought alot of us would revert back to this type build once cryptic got rid of double circles for clerics.
Into the fray and Knights valor are your $$
Other then not using Cat i use the acolyte of kelemvor for the Shielding Helps every once in while when guard breaks and she timely throws that buff.
This^
but more specifically i have 3 issue with turtle build. And i'm not pro conqueror like tank should be dps, but give us some incentive to play other build, the feats are so badly adapted for instance out of conqueror.
1.The feats are so unbalanced, comparing conqueror and protector it's like double damage vs less than 10% damage reduction. Conqueror is game changing, protector is not.
People don't ignore their role, the benefits from feat are so small in protector it's ridiculous, it's not like you choose speccing tank or not. Actually, It's being an ok tank with pure dps damage and mobility or good tank with... cleric damage that have trouble moving. With a good group, more than 10 points in protector might not be a total waste, but it's far from necessary considering the dungeons mechanics, you rarely tank bosses, you tank/kills adds, in most t2 even up to castle never. And for trash, while 90% of the time they are pushed off cliff, the other 10% it might help to kill them faster while they are controlled.
2. Aggravating strike aka stab. The animation is a complete pain in the ***. Who designed the stupid front step to get me caught in AoE making it harder to block the middle of the red circle or taking years to be able to move after a swing. Being caught in the animation get me kill more often than front tanking and only block big hits.
Comparing it to cleave it's like night and day in efficiency. While you cleave, you don't block, but it's not like you can't. If you are being hit hard, you block, if not you hit, more often i hit, i don't need to turtle i prefer to move around, position the mobs and dodge AoE/big attacks.
3. PvP is really fun as conqueror, considering the price to respec, i prefer a build i can combine both.
Conclusion.
I'll go protector or tactician when the feats strength match the conqueror tree.
I can deal with a less efficient aggravating strike vs cleave, but god, make the animation quicker to resolve and more fluid. But more importantly, remove the stupid front step.
EDIT: Still, i do agree with your build. I do like seeing attempt to break the Conq GF meta, this guide brings many good points and it's a good reading for any GF. I tested many build, and i think this build is probably the best way to go if you refuse to go conqueror. Like someone mentioned, i do suggest too investing in crushing pin over daunting challenge, you might have a better mileage with it considering it will be up as often as into fray buff with a good set of power. Anyway, good job, nice guide.
Agreed. The last feat from conqueror is far better than any other last feat. And the front step on aggravating strike is annoying, takes some time to get used to it.
I've heard that she dies during fights, can anyone confirm this?
Juguer's Gateway Profile (GF PvE)
Juguerz's Gateway Profile (GF PvP)
^^ This right here. Seriously.
I want to switch to a true tank role but not until they make it truly worthwhile to the party and tweak stupid things like the Hoppity Hide Stab.
protector = you will benefit from its feats
tactician = your party benefits from it (more usefull imo for tank that doesnt care about damage)
trample vs combat superiority
ill coose trample 15% damage when enemy is CC (mark = CC so its like perma 15% damage)
combat superiority only has 10% damage inc putting 1 point is enough upgrading it only increases duration
crushing pin is also good to max bec everyone benefits from it just need to mark all mobs for 10% damage
What are you guys talking about? You dont have to "front step"...
You can also cansel some skills/animations by pressing block once if needed, like a red cirkle pops up (need timing).
I am currently 16.4k GS and come no1/2 dps in all dungeons except CN. We are an AOE dps machine that brings control in the form of tankiness. A mage is a range dps with control in the form of sing and TR's are single target dps with smoke for their control. Right now each class is dps with a form of control (Tankiness/smoke/sing).
Disappointing class changes prior to launch. This really needs to change. It's what I run, but I find it honestly boring as hell and the lack of options ridiculous.
To the OP, play how you want. Someday I hope the game goes in this direction, and GFs will no longer simply be DPS with heavy armor. Reminds me of GW2. Everyone specs DPS and the only difference is what "class" their armor is.
rofl. Have you played this game since class balance patch?
I agree that conq spec is easier (take care of yourself vs. take care of your group) and makes you feel like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but it isn't the only viable spec.
Juguer's Gateway Profile (GF PvE)
Juguerz's Gateway Profile (GF PvP)
Its not about feeling like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> its about being useful to your group. As I stated in previous threads and this one NO t2 dung requires a tank at any point. If you want your group to carry you because of your inability to look at what is required then fine by me, keep being dead weight.
The thing with conq is that it allow us to tank and dps and ppl want dps to clear things faster...
^
if you dont spec conq you're deadweight in a party, period
there's no content that needs a tank and by going tanky all you're doing is slowing your party's potential progession
but i give my party utility and all these buffs and lessen damage
noone cares, because as soon as you stop outputting respectable damage, you're immediately replaceable, just like any other dps. there is nothing special about a guardian fighter
if you think x2 power gives high damage think again and compute your stats
support buffer build is a lot better than conqueror path
reduce mobs damage and increase your party damage up to 20%+
compared to your conqueror path only increases your damage without OP equips youre useless
I'm just saying that I don't understand why people want to hop on Neverwinter and say to themselves "I want to do damage, let's go with the Guardian Fighter. Clearly this class is meant for raw DPS!"
It's not really the way I want them to, it's the way they are meant to be played in traditional sense. If a tank could do as much damage as a damage-dealer role, we would all be playing that tank class. I've seen it done, and it irks me, for sure. Does that make more sense?
EDIT: Hold on, just saw this:
"if you dont spec conq you're deadweight in a party, period
there's no content that needs a tank and by going tanky all you're doing is slowing your party's potential progession"
Is someone not playing Guardian Fighter the way you think is best?
Nom nom, irony.
It's not the way I'd like the game to be but currently it is the way it is. There is also a world of difference between a pug and a set group. In pugs the buff build shines more but if you pick the closer you get to a competent group the more it's utility falls away.
Basically what happens end-game is that people want to do speed runs and which entails pushing out DPS in every possible way (while still surviving). When people reach this point, they stop caring about anything other than the meta build that can provide this. The game becomes a grind, they end up complaining about the repetitiveness, so on and so forth. When people trash talk this build, they forget to mention they are trying to maximize speed run efficiency so that they can become bored of the game faster. *Meanwhile, people like to be diverse in their builds or play their own way.*
At any rate, I do agree that groups can manage without a tank in most instances. This doesn't mean that it should stay this way. It will be up to Cryptic to change mechanics of dungeons and class abilities, among other things, so that the trinity will be the basis for group composition. I'm assuming that is their goal, when observing the descriptions of the Guardian Fighter, Devoted Cleric, Great Weapon Fighter, etc on the Neverwinter Wiki.