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How are they going to handle loot with new classes?
cichard
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
My question is how are they going to handle loot when new classes are added to the game? Since all loot is class specific you will have to add a whole new line of loot to every instance to every vendor at all the different level ranges and trash loot that drops off monsters. Thats fine and dandy if you plan on adding 1 or 2 more classes but 4e has 16 classes. If they plan to add half of the missing classes that s a lot of work...
I was thinking instead of having loot class specific they need to make it role specific.
Roles:
Defender: Tanks
Leader: Healers
Striker: Damage Dealers
Controller: Crowd Control
This way no matter how many classes they add to the game loot wont have to be generated for each new class. Now i know what you are all thinking... GWFs where do they fit in.. well with this new buff to them i feel they fill the striker role very well and i would classify them as such.
Another thing you might be saying is what about AC level. The only role this really effects is Striker, Since you can have cloth strikers mail strikers and leather strikers. What i figure is you can have the skin and the AC of the teir of loot to be determined by the class that equips it. So if a T2 Striker chest drops and a warlock(cloth striker) and a rogue (Leather striker) roll on it and the warlock wins then the AC will be set for what t2 cloth AC has, if the rogue wins it then its set for what T2 Leather gear has.
You may ask what about set bonuses. well instead of having the setbonus on the gear it self make it a vendor item for like 200 drake seals that goes in a new equipment slot(similar to what rift has) then when you get 2 pieces of the same teir gear it activates the 2 piece set bonus and when you get the 4th piece it grants you the 4 piece set bonus on the crystal.
I think this is a very simple method for expansion of the game with out having to worry about loot in instances. Could you imagine if all 16 classes are added to the game how much loot would get wasted in instances if the loot remains class specific and how much harder it would be to get the gear for your class.
Tell me your thoughts on this its just an idea i threw together.
I was thinking instead of having loot class specific they need to make it role specific.
Roles:
Defender: Tanks
Leader: Healers
Striker: Damage Dealers
Controller: Crowd Control
This way no matter how many classes they add to the game loot wont have to be generated for each new class. Now i know what you are all thinking... GWFs where do they fit in.. well with this new buff to them i feel they fill the striker role very well and i would classify them as such.
Another thing you might be saying is what about AC level. The only role this really effects is Striker, Since you can have cloth strikers mail strikers and leather strikers. What i figure is you can have the skin and the AC of the teir of loot to be determined by the class that equips it. So if a T2 Striker chest drops and a warlock(cloth striker) and a rogue (Leather striker) roll on it and the warlock wins then the AC will be set for what t2 cloth AC has, if the rogue wins it then its set for what T2 Leather gear has.
You may ask what about set bonuses. well instead of having the setbonus on the gear it self make it a vendor item for like 200 drake seals that goes in a new equipment slot(similar to what rift has) then when you get 2 pieces of the same teir gear it activates the 2 piece set bonus and when you get the 4th piece it grants you the 4 piece set bonus on the crystal.
I think this is a very simple method for expansion of the game with out having to worry about loot in instances. Could you imagine if all 16 classes are added to the game how much loot would get wasted in instances if the loot remains class specific and how much harder it would be to get the gear for your class.
Tell me your thoughts on this its just an idea i threw together.
Post edited by cichard on
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Didn't they say they killed that idea?
as far as i read last its still on the big patch notes for after release
Just checked. It's a sticky at the top of the page. It's dead currently.
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ya i just think with the current system there potentially could be a very long loot table per boss and make it much harder to get loot.
The biggest issue isnt the work for the dev team to add more loot but the fact of adding 16 classes worth of loot to the boss loot table and the impact it will have on 5 man runs. Making it even harder then it already is to get loot for your class.
And you know precisely how it currently works? Please do share that!
Seems awfully presumptive to assume that there isn't any intelligence behind the dropping system to 'encourage' drops for the users' current class. If it was purely random, you'd only be able to use ~20% of what drops while you play. Seems about the other way around to me; ie: you CAN'T use 20% of what you get.
This is what I'm thinking. That is one of the D&D guideline Cryptic decides to throw out (one of many) Personally I wouldn't have gone with class loot. Just go with standard itemization loot with enhancement slot. The enhancement can give "class specific" boost which then can be made into a set. That way ANYONE can use the drop but will "change" according on how you slot it.
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First no need to be rude. second most the time in the dungeon runs i typically see loot for the class not in the group. Typically i see GWF or GF gear drop if their isnt one in the group. So im pretty sure that their is no mechanic in place to make it drop gear for the classes that happen to be in the group.
I know thats anecdotal at best but i do a lot of instances and if such system would be in place i would be sure to of gotten at least 1 drop for my class from a dungeon.
you also have to remember that not only the set gear but non set gear is on the list so you hvae 16 classes of set gear on the loot table and 16 classes of non set gear on hte loot table..... not to mention belts rings necks. You can see how your chances get slim at getting loot you actually want or need.
What exactly are you meaning when you discuss drops anyway? You've switched between "drops" and "boss loot" a couple of times so it's hard to tell. if you're talking about the random greens that get generated by the boatload, then yes, I'd expect some for non-instancing classes. If we're talking boss drops only then I'd still expect some for non-instancing classes (though hopefully not as much); they have to generate some supply for the global economy after all. There's no guarantee that you'll get a class-usable drop from any given dungeon, if that's what you're driving at? Given the number of class-specific and non-class-specific slots * number of classes * the FEW drops per dungeon (of boss loot) I'm not surprised at all to not get a class-usable item on a run. However, I think extrapolating the current system and predicting things to be worse with more diversity is a disservice. One would hope that the usability of boss loot drops would be a significant factor in future coding; I know I'd increase the weight of currently-instanced classes in the formula if I were coding it.
im talking about drops from boss loot tables.... the important stuff. thats exactly what im talking about what are they gonna do when they increase the number of classes the current system will cause issues, more classes more drops have to be on the boss loot table the more loot on the boss loot table the less chance you get what you came for. If they plan on adding lots of classes they need to change something either change how loot binds by the role like i stated in my opening post or like you said give current group composition a weighted value in how loot drops.. because its obvious its not that way currently.
I hope you are right. Such coding should be patch/in-place BEFORE releasing any new class. As class expand, if such a system is not in place, we will have the issue this thread is posting about.
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I'd be surprised if it were purely random currently (perhaps it needs some tweaking too).
Another thing they could do to improve the odds of getting something useable is increase the number of items each boss drops too.
See, this is my problem with your thread: you DON'T KNOW exactly how it works currently. Wild speculation, sir. Wild speculation.
increasing the numbers of items each boss drops would "Lower" your chances of getting loot the more loot added to the table the less chance the 1 item you want will drop. Not a hard concept.
If the number of classes gets that high, they would probably create a token system, like WOW uses, you get a token for a specific piece (head/chest/feet/etc) then you trade to vendor for your class/build version of that piece.
that would cause even more problems it would lead to specific classes not running certain dungeons.. the token system would be a good idea as well. Drop a token that is for defenders or a leader token and so forth... but still adds the point of having to have a vendor with 16 different classes worth of gear.
i wouldnt put it past cryptic to do it the oposit of that the more of 1 class in the group the less the chance for loot to drop for it... after all they make money by people buying zen and trading it for astral dimonds to buy stuff off the ah
The problem is that the current loot table (however it is coded) is NOT dropping loot compare to group composition.
now that is from people posting on loot issues and not getting drop or the group getting drop for another class that is NOT in their group. The current BoE system allows group member to cash in when a drop doesn't go their way.
So unless boss will drop loot, even if it is one piece of loot, according to group composition, then I don't care if it is 8 classes or 100 classes. A group comprise of anything and ONE of the member will come out with something that they can use instead of NO one can use (except an alt or AH)
Personally, I think a token system would be better so the loot table will be smaller.
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Or, maybe they have it set up so that only loot for classes present will drop.
But first off they will most likely not use all 16 classes except if this game would survive +6 years.
secondly they will probably release classes in sets of 2 or just 1 at a time since adding a new class is not a easy task.
Among the task of adding a new class is making the gear and loot tables to represent that so it is not really extra work but a necessary job for adding classes. Also making gear which multiple classes can use would be difficult maybe even more since there is a big chance that different classes need different stats to preform so then they would have to go over all the gear that currently drops and add the stats for the classes to use.
Now a method which could work in my opinion would go along the line like this
Now i am going to make a few assumptions to make the math easier to understand but it would work mather the numbers.
1e lets assume we have 10 classes.
2e lets asume each boss has a loot table of 10 items corresponding to the 10 classes.
3e lets a assume when u make a 5 man group and enter a instance the group is set up with 5 different classes
Now once u enter the instance with that setup there is a 50% chance that a boss drops a item that someone in the group can use. which is pretty low
Now in order to combat that a easy solution could be to add 5% chance for drop for every class who is present in this case it would mean that of the classes present they have a 15% chance of a drop from the boss.
Now this might seem low but remember u are with 5 man so it would even out at 75% chance that someone in the group will get a item he or she can use and a 25% chance that gear drops which nobody in the group can use.
In this scenario the team entering has a very good chance that someone will come out of the boss fight with a item they can use while still having the chance for gear to drop which can be sold boosting the economy.
Now as i said these are assumptions but no mather the amount of classes or group composition the math would just change but the end result would be 75% chance drop for someone in a team and 25% chance that something drops for a non participating class.
Also it could be mixed up by not letting all gear drop for all classes on every boss but leave 2 classes out for every preliminary boss but still have a full loot table for the end boss so that some people don't leave after boss 2 because he knows the final boss drops nothing for him.
And like i sad this is my opinion on a possible solution which i find much better then making the same gear for multiple classes.
Not just for the difeculty in stats but also for the difeculty and armour type leather cloth mail etc. And of course making the gear visual so that 1 class will be able to see the gear with the stats that he would get and making the 2e class see complete different stats that he would need.