Epic dungeons don't feel epic!

casekuk · June 2013

This is not a post about the Epic Dungeons being too easy.. No... In fact the end boss difficulty compared to the rest of the dungeon is a joke and the only epic part is the amount of time it takes to kill the end boss!

This post however is about EPIC dungeons dropping BLUE gear!

How is this correct?

My guild and I did 4 EPIC dungeons today, and 2.. yes 2!! of them dropped BLUE gear from the end boss!

Throne of Idris was the last one we did, and it took us a few attempts to kill the end boss. In all the dungeons, it probably cost us 10 various potions Crit, Recovery, defence, deflect and the like, EACH! Considering there's no way to get these other than drops its an expensive day!

20+ injury kits each.

And of course many hours figuring out how to kill the end bosses who are (as previously mentioned) SO much more difficult than the rest of the dungeons it boggles my mind.

and then after ALL your effort... BLUE gear! The end boss in Idris dropped a ring that all of us laughed at stat wise!

I ask again.. HOW is this EPIC?

Dungeon Delves box at the end... BLUE gear! and pointless blue gear at that!

How is this EPIC?

Sorry I don't often rant and rave on forums, but this is ridiculous!

EPIC should mean EPIC!! We put in the time, we want the reward! please look at this!

Thanks

Art.

satorusenpai · June 2013

I got blue during a couple, at least the 'sword' I got looks alright.

casekuk · June 2013

Well at least it not just me

xanos900 · June 2013

no you put too much effort in it and want good stuff.

idris is a low dungeon, if you realy need 20injury kits and a huge amout of time then your grp/guild whatever just simply SUCKS.
usually you wont even need a healer lol. pug grps just rush through it so fast as they can, kill the endboss that is freeloot and take the DD chest.
in wich by the way to 90% always a t1 set item is, or a blue lvl 58 shirt

dekno · June 2013

its not epic.

casekuk · June 2013

Wow, I'm glad your so good at the game!

It's so easy to come on here and tell everyone how they suck! How YOU can do it with your hands tied behind your back. I am very pleased for you!

Now back with the grown ups... and to answer your barrage of insults.

If Idris is an easy dungeon on EPIC level, then why call it an epic dungeon in the first place?

If you want to label something as 'epic' then it needs to have rewards that reflect the difficulty. For US (and I dont care about you and your school friends) its hard, and when we need to work at something we expect a reward.

Incidentally, that's how the real world works outside your bedroom.. We work hard and get rewarded, its called being paid, and earning but you'll learn about that in a few years when you go out into the big world.

jipatsu · June 2013

It's the amount of adds which makes the dungeons so epic.

ostliek · June 2013

RNG is RNG. Seriously, stop crying about not getting epics handed out.

dekno · June 2013

casekuk wrote: »

Wow, I'm glad your so good at the game!

It's so easy to come on here and tell everyone how they suck! How YOU can do it with your hands tied behind your back. I am very pleased for you!

Now back with the grown ups... and to answer your barrage of insults.

If Idris is an easy dungeon on EPIC level, then why call it an epic dungeon in the first place?

If you want to label something as 'epic' then it needs to have rewards that reflect the difficulty. For US (and I dont care about you and your school friends) its hard, and when we need to work at something we expect a reward.

Incidentally, that's how the real world works outside your bedroom.. We work hard and get rewarded, its called being paid, and earning but you'll learn about that in a few years when you go out into the big world.

cmon bro, idris is ez.

satorusenpai · June 2013

casekuk wrote: »

Wow, I'm glad your so good at the game!

It's so easy to come on here and tell everyone how they suck! How YOU can do it with your hands tied behind your back. I am very pleased for you!

Now back with the grown ups... and to answer your barrage of insults.

If Idris is an easy dungeon on EPIC level, then why call it an epic dungeon in the first place?

If you want to label something as 'epic' then it needs to have rewards that reflect the difficulty. For US (and I dont care about you and your school friends) its hard, and when we need to work at something we expect a reward.

Incidentally, that's how the real world works outside your bedroom.. We work hard and get rewarded, its called being paid, and earning but you'll learn about that in a few years when you go out into the big world.

By the way at boss, have a GF use mark skill to pull 1 wave at a time, when you finish the 1st 'floor' and 2nd 'floor' at boss, don't walk up to 3, have the GF press tab on boss from 2nd, lure it to 1st. Kill the adds that came with the boss except the hulk, have the GF take aggro of 1st hulk, and the 2nd that spawns, and have him run around in squares with the 2 hulks away from the boss, while the other 4 focuses boss.

Another blue dropped for me.

rustedheartz · June 2013

jipatsu wrote: »

It's the amount of adds which makes the dungeons so epic.

With CWs you'd be punting them off edges, so EPIC because trash mobs don't drop anything worth the effort. Epic, just Epic. ;-)

jaksgfcbfh · June 2013

Idris would be if it wasnt for cloak tower would be the easiest dungeon even on epic its a joke how easy it is when i first did it i just thought how simple and basic it was wait till your doing the higher ones they are 100x worse but not better. Its just waves and waves of adds that turn threat generation into a game of kids hunting candy. they seriously need to rethink most of these dungeons becasue they arnt enjoyable only the loot is. i find myself playing this game like a casual and thats a 1st for me

just adding. the only way to win is glitching

ganjaman1 · June 2013

rustedheartz wrote: »

With CWs you'd be punting them off edges, so EPIC because trash mobs don't drop anything worth the effort. Epic, just Epic. ;-)

epek epicness for the big wins right there ^

trevien29 · June 2013

jaksgfcbfh wrote: »

Idris would be if it wasnt for cloak tower would be the easiest dungeon even on epic its a joke how easy it is when i first did it i just thought how simple and basic it was wait till your doing the higher ones they are 100x worse but not better. Its just waves and waves of adds that turn threat generation into a game of kids hunting candy. they seriously need to rethink most of these dungeons becasue they arnt enjoyable only the loot is. i find myself playing this game like a casual and thats a 1st for me

just adding. the only way to win is glitching

It is epic how unreadable this is.

llfritzll · June 2013

i am just wondering who thought waves of enemies was in any way fun, or for that matter plausible.

i mean does every boss in the ad&d world have a barracks right next to their throne room fully stocked with minions?? lol.

last boss fight with my GF it was just permanent red circles under my feet.
my guard meter was constantly broken.
i could barely use my encounters because i had to have block up whenever it was not broken.
i was getting knocked around like a rag doll.
i was mashing potions on cooldown to survive.

sure we won, but it wasn't fun.
in fact i had a pretty bad headache afterwords.

i dunno, i am going to go play rift for a while right now. it has worse combat, worse graphics, and i have no desire to have a second job in a video game so i can participate in end game activities. however, when i am done i wont have a headache.
doesnt mean i am quitting, ill probably be back tomorrow, but they seriously need to think about this.
i shouldnt feel like this after a dungeon run.

trevien29 · June 2013

llfritzll wrote: »

i am just wondering who thought waves of enemies was in any way fun, or for that matter plausible.

i mean does every boss in the ad&d world have a barracks right next to their throne room fully stocked with minions?? lol.

last boss fight with my GF it was just permanent red circles under my feet.
my guard meter was constantly broken.
i could barely use my encounters because i had to have block up whenever it was not broken.
i was getting knocked around like a rag doll.
i was mashing potions on cooldown to survive.

sure we won, but it wasn't fun.
in fact i had a pretty bad headache afterwords.

i dunno, i am going to go play rift for a while right now. it has worse combat, worse graphics, and i have no desire to have a second job in a video game so i can participate in end game activities. however, when i am done i wont have a headache.
doesnt mean i am quitting, ill probably be back tomorrow, but they seriously need to think about this.
i shouldnt feel like this after a dungeon run.

I agree on the constant adds, not a fun mechanic. Rift is a good game, though end game was buggy beyond belief during my year there. I disagree on the graphics though, Rift on max setting is incredible. The graphics in Neverwinter get the job done, though they are on a cartoonish level.

nikitaoz · June 2013

I agree with OP here. There should be a clear tier bracket for epic mode dungeons. These items can be blue in color but they should be an upgrade to players. That's how it works in others games.
On the other hand, why calling dungeons "epic" if they drop blue gear?
Players are used to the term "epic" in conjunction with "purple". So it is a bad misinformation.
The worst thing a seller can do is to build expectations of a buyer and then not deliver.
This seller most certainly will lose their clientele.

casekuk · June 2013

Maybe it was my fault for wording it badly in the first place, and I conceed that, that was the case.

HOWEVER:

No one understood my original post! Please re-read and note that I say:

IN ALL - we used... And then listed the potions etc

and then I said... spend hours working out the BOSSE(S) Plural.

Now, as I said I conceeded, I could have been clearer! However I was talking about using that many potions etc over the course of an entire day...

And as for people saying.. C'mon Idris is EASY... Yes to 'YOU' it's easy, can you not understand that there are differing levels of players in this game? I can program 3D Studio Max to throw particles around in real time using real physics, and I think that's EASY! Do you!??

My original post was to emphasize the fact that THE DEVELOPERS have called the dungeon EPIC, which means it has had its difficulty rated above that of the other dungeons.

And because of that, the reward should fit the difficulty and the name otherwise there is no point in this system full stop!

I am sick of people coming onto forums and slating people for being no good at something just because THEY can do it!

Wake up, stop criticizing, and realize that my original post had a point!

If Idris and Cloak Tower are THAT easy, and the reward from them is SUPPOSED to be blue, then how are people like me and my guild friends supposed to progress beyond them with and gain better gear?
Sure we can grind out the unicorn tokens and buy it? And this is probably what we will end up doing...

However, this does not change what I said initially.

Epic = purple (or at least upgraded loot!!) NOT blue that you can get from a normal dungeon. - thanks Nikitaoz for your support!.

casekuk · June 2013

I'd like to add to this post...

My guild and I are currently IN the The Lair of the Mad Dragon... We just killed Baelrath the vile...

Anyone who tells me that THIS is an easy fight is on some kind of medication that makes them imagine things! lol..

It took us 12 attempts, but he is now dead.. and he dropped

BLUE GEAR!!! A Signet of unending pain!

Now I'm sorry, but if ever there was proof that the dungeon loot is wrong then surely, this is it no??

EPIC = Purple.. If it absolutely HAS to be blue.. then make it decent!

I will come back after we are done... Who knows what we have in store!

The continuing saga, of EPIC dungeons simply do not drop EPIC loot drops!

Art.

casekuk · June 2013

Well, we couldn't kill the dragon, and honestly don't think we ever will :P

Take it easy all!

huevit0 · June 2013

Lair of the Mad dragon is harder than Karrundax with noobs

xanos900 · June 2013

epic idris is even under the skill level of a casual player .. you should be able to run it blind with no healer, no tank, no powers in the bar while using only autoattacks rank1

casekuk · June 2013

Good to see you back with yet another blindingly intelligent reply Xanos900! Looks like you bought a school friend with you too, Huevit0. Nice to meet you!

diogene0 · June 2013

Only T1 dungeons bosses drop blue. And if you needed like 20 kits for T1, well... :rolleyes:

diogene0 · June 2013

llfritzll wrote: »

i am just wondering who thought waves of enemies was in any way fun, or for that matter plausible.

i mean does every boss in the ad&d world have a barracks right next to their throne room fully stocked with minions?? lol.

last boss fight with my GF it was just permanent red circles under my feet.
my guard meter was constantly broken.
i could barely use my encounters because i had to have block up whenever it was not broken.
i was getting knocked around like a rag doll.
i was mashing potions on cooldown to survive.

sure we won, but it wasn't fun.
in fact i had a pretty bad headache afterwords.

i dunno, i am going to go play rift for a while right now. it has worse combat, worse graphics, and i have no desire to have a second job in a video game so i can participate in end game activities. however, when i am done i wont have a headache.
doesnt mean i am quitting, ill probably be back tomorrow, but they seriously need to think about this.
i shouldnt feel like this after a dungeon run.

The role of the GF is to be a punching bag. You don't really have to hit anything, you get the aggro and sit somewhere. Might not be fun for you but then i suggest a reroll.

casekuk · June 2013

Diogene, you make a good point!

Only T1 bosses drop blue... Ok, cool, that I can live with.

What I can't get my head around, is why the blue drops in the 'EPIC' labelled dungeons are no better than those in the normal dungeons?

My argument being why call them EPIC in the first place, because they are simply NOT. The only epic thing about them is how many more HP the last boss has to everything else in the SAME dungeon! Oh and the amount of adds he has!

This is my original point and a point that is becoming so incredibly skewed by everyone reading this post.

The dungeons dont feel EPIC, because they dont 'reward' like EPIC. Surely even the preschoolers like Xanos900 can see what I'm trying to say!

griz024 · June 2013

Epic end bosses are not all that hard. Annoying is a better word, imo. From a tr perspective, its more dodging the boss's attacks than attacking the boss yourself. Idk how the other classes handle as my tr is my only lvl 60, but i imagine its they run in a similar manner- more bobbing and weaving than stabbing and blasting.

The issue with pugs is everyone seems to want to focus the boss only, not the adds. Cws and gwf should, imo, focus the adds as the adds overwhelming the party is normally how pugs fail. Dcs should split their focus between heals and add management as well. What tanks should do is where i am unsure. I assume it depends on the fight. Sometimes tanks control adds and sometimes they tank the boss?

frarii · June 2013

Well, despite the "Idris is really easy" that has been already noted, some people just play the game a few hours each week and dont have the previous "teaming" experience, anyway, T1 bosses can drop blues, but also T1 parts, and some of those parts (stalwart pieces for example) and half of the Mad Dragon helms are really pricey.

Mad Dragon is another issue, ever after nerfing its harder than some t2 instances, and also, due to the low GS requirements, most PUGs try it going on green gear, without knowing how to play in team work, and obviously that ends in frustration, because that instance is hard, hard for any PUG, hard for casual guilds/teammates, my best advice to those is: learn how to play well with eachother, try to make your GF not only tank and spam into the fray, but to set the monsters in a good formation for the group to kill them easier, train your CWs to control the crowds not to try to kill them(not throwing the mobs on the DC is a tech) also, make your DPS try to be as much time steaalthed as possible, to always attack bosses with combat advantage, but also to DODGE when there is a red area... DCs work is harder to learn, learning curve is slightly more tough, but mu best advice is to try to be proactive instead of reactive, get used to teammates and when and where put the AS, when and where using Forgemaster and to prevent tank to die when AS is in cooldown.
Once your group does that well (best training is IDRIS,CC and CT) you can go to the "hard" t1s like Mad Dragon and GWD, you'll discover than suddenly, they are not only impossible, but doable... and after that, you'll probably have a full t1 set, and you're ready for t2 instances.

winddancer42 · June 2013

I would like to give the OP some support here. To often i hear elites saying how easy thing are for them, but as he says there are different levels of players who may not have an easy time. The elites need to support and advise instead of criticizing, to help the casual player improve there game.

I also agree that Epic should = purple gear not blue. It also be great to see the trash drop more then just greens all the time. These days my guild doesn't bother picking them up, its just not worth it.

casekuk · June 2013

And then as if by magic two... yes TWO shining examples of decency come along!

Frarrii and Windancer, thank you both so much for giving the kind of responses I was looking for! Not just because you agree with me, but because you had the common decency to stay civil about it! Be decent, something that is so, so sadly lacking in this awful forum world of children and the just plain rude!

I have to confess Ferarri & Windancer though, that my 'team' are just a few and we HAVE experience with all the 'other' MMO's.. It seems maybe we do just suck! :P

To give a taste of us and our experience, we have recently played Star Wars and Guild Wars...(before this EQ2, Secret World among others) I can honestly say that we completed every zone on hard level (or the specific games name for them) in all of those! (except Arah in GW2, as it was CONSTANTLY broken - but that's for another forum) Some of us, even 'solo'd' epic instances in EQ2. So we are no strangers to game mechanics. Don't get me wrong, we had a hard time in these too! Eventually we worked it out though, and ended up with the best gear the each game could offer us.

We know each other inside out, we know how each other will react, and we consider ourselves fairly good players. HOWEVER, we are having trouble with this games 3 rules... Avoid Avoid Avoid. As a game mechanic, it just plain sucks really, and it feels like a lot of completing the zones is down to luck, rather than judgement.

Yet despite all this... we actually are 'casual' players. We have done this little repertoire of games over 'years' and we only ever play evenings, as we all work. And even then only for 3 hours tops.

Occasionally we will get a weekend like the one we just had. Where we try out several 'epic' dungeons, only to find that they were pretty **** difficult.

For the record.. and to state yet again what I originally posted. Idris, is NOT our problem. The other dungeons we tried that day (which included mad dragon) were the ones responsible for us using so many potions and injury kits. please listen carefuly when I say... IDRIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM... IT ALSO WASN'T THE 'POINT' OF MY ORIGINAL POST!

And just for clarity.. WE DID IDRIS THAT DAY - AND WE COMPLETED IT WITH NO MORE THAN A FEW WIPES!

Hopefully that will sink in now.

As for this game, we WILL succeed, as we always do.. It will just take us longer.

Thanks again guys, for the voice of reason!

Art.

testicol0 · June 2013

Every dungeon i did drops purple item... only T1 dungeons drop blu items...

Epic dungeons don't feel epic!

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