I think the balance patch just exposed the existing problems to the game.
astral shield was a giant crutch that was covering up the issues with the GF and DC, and since it has been removed the issues are becoming obvious to everyone.
in the long run it is actually a good thing. just sucks right now.
if you want me to be more specific, DC has mediocre to poor healing abilities without AS and needs many of their skills adjusted so they can perform their role. GF is not designed properly to tank the masses of adds that spawn along with a boss. having red circles under your feet permanently and getting knocked around like a rag doll is not fun.
i just switched to playing a control wizard for now. i dont have to worry about tanking or healing and i can just dps and control things while the majority of everything and everyone ignores me. its quite relaxing after playing a DC and GF.
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coolarsonistMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited June 2013
Well I'm happy that some people acknowledge the fact that these problems are huge.
Great job on countering all the points put up by everyone.
you mean all the points that disagree with you that were put up by everyone? or the 4 or 5 that you agree with?
you seem to mistakenly believe that I care enough to do such a thing.
"countering all the points put up by everyone(that you specifically agree with)" serves no purpose. why? because the standard response that any of you will provide is "blahblahblah fanboy blahblahblah white knight blahblahblah".
Sure, the game is dead. the patch killed the game. all the Clerics quit. every single one of them. Nobody has or will ever complete ANY dungeon ever, because of this patch.
I mean it was a massive failure. Next patch is just putting the final nail in the coffin. Normal parties cannot clear dungeons. DC is a broken class for non hardcore, CW is bugged, bosses and adds need to be toned down if it stays like this.
The bosses and adds always needed to be toned down. If you have a game with a random grouping feature (such as this game) then the #1 thing you need to keep in mind when designing content is that the typical random group needs to be able to beat the content they are grouping for. At least 90% of randomly formed groups should successfully complete the content they grouped for or people will stop using the random grouping feature and you may as well not even have one (which is sad because a random grouping feature is a big draw since it lets everyone play dungeon content). You can tell that this game's content is too difficult because people are constantly shouting for groups rather than joining the queue because randomly formed groups tend to fail a lot.
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coolarsonistMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
The bosses and adds always needed to be toned down. If you have a game with a random grouping feature (such as this game) then the #1 thing you need to keep in mind when designing content is that the typical random group needs to be able to beat the content they are grouping for. At least 90% of randomly formed groups should successfully complete the content they grouped for or people will stop using the random grouping feature and you may as well not even have one (which is sad because a random grouping feature is a big draw since it lets everyone play dungeon content). You can tell that this game's content is too difficult because people are constantly shouting for groups rather than joining the queue because randomly formed groups tend to fail a lot.
Thank god for the intelligence people have. I'm convinced the game can be saved now, thank you sir. I have no problem with the balance patch, if they balanced the game completely, not just a portion of it. All I see are super hardcore players saying things are easy, they fail to realize that the player base is far larger than just them.
Lets not forget that CW is not even working correctly at the moment.
Didn't kill it, but forced it into a smaller niche of player type.
Game needs difficulty selection to appeal to broader player base.
Some people want a casual game. Some people want a hardcore game. Some people want both, at different times; or something in between. No reason one game can't have difficulty levels to appeal to all sorts of players. Not like that is anything new in gaming...
you mean all the points that disagree with you that were put up by everyone? or the 4 or 5 that you agree with?
You can't really take the ratio of agree vs. disagree in a typical post because people on message boards love to argue. You get people that normally group with their guild and usually succeed at dungeons saying the game is fine. These same people refuse to use the random group finder because those groups usually fail, but they still claim the game is fine because they found a workaround. If the game were actually fine then people that used the grouping feature provided in the game (the random one that is supposed to be a useful feature or else they would not have bothered putting it in) would usually succeed at the content they queued for. If you are not willing to use the random grouping feature because you know you are probably going to fail, then you know the difficulty is not actually fine, but since you found a way around it you are arguing simply because that is what people on message boards do.
For a real world example, the economy can be "bad" but anyone that has a great job they are happy with tends not to feel like the economy is really that bad because it is not hurting them directly. The moment they lose their job the economy instantly becomes terrible in their eyes even though the economy was just as terrible the day before they lost their job. People in games are the same way. If your guild suddenly vanished and you had to form random groups the game would instantly become too hard because it was too hard all along. You were just successfully avoiding the real challenge up to that point. The real challenge in any MMO is defeating content with a random group of strangers. A well-oiled group of people that know how to work together can easily beat any content in any game. Pick-up groups are where challenge is found and where the true difficulty of a game is measured.
You can't really take the ratio of agree vs. disagree in a typical post because people on message boards love to argue. You get people that normally group with their guild and usually succeed at dungeons saying the game is fine. These same people refuse to use the random group finder because those groups usually fail, but they still claim the game is fine because they found a workaround. If the game were actually fine then people that used the grouping feature provided in the game (the random one that is supposed to be a useful feature or else they would not have bothered putting it in) would usually succeed at the content they queued for. If you are not willing to use the random grouping feature because you know you are probably going to fail, then you know the difficulty is not actually fine, but since you found a way around it you are arguing simply because that is what people on message boards do.
For a real world example, the economy can be "bad" but anyone that has a great job they are happy with tends not to feel like the economy is really that bad because it is not hurting them directly. The moment they lose their job the economy instantly becomes terrible in their eyes even though the economy was just as terrible the day before they lost their job. People in games are the same way. If your guild suddenly vanished and you had to form random groups the game would instantly become too hard because it was too hard all along. You were just successfully avoiding the real challenge up to that point. The real challenge in any MMO is defeating content with a random group of strangers. A well-oiled group of people that know how to work together can easily beat any content in any game. Pick-up groups are where challenge is found and where the true difficulty of a game is measured.
I see what you are saying.
as far as difficulty goes...so what if it is hard? why does everything need to be faceroll easy? I'm not a hardcore pro player by any means. I'm gonna wipe on these dungeons hard in a pick-up group. and I'm fine with that. eventually, I'll get through it.
I'm not gonna sit here and demand that the Devs make the game any easier.
Why do you even still play? All I see are posts from you about how bad the game is. Go away if you're not enjoying it.
I can't answer for the OP but I will for me. I have complained lately about the TON of CW bugs from the patch. Between the spells, feats and gear not working properly in so many cases 3 days from launch it is not acceptable. I post in hopes that someone actually monitors the boards and values the customer feedback.
Specifically to your question as to why I don't leave if I complain:
1) I have spent about $100 between founders pack and various zen purchases
2) I enjoyed the game at first and recognize a lot of potential in it. I am hoping it improves.
In fairness to you the poster you responded to I suppose was pretty negative but I can understand the frustration.
Seriously, if you run a dungeon with one DC you better make sure they know wtf they're doing. AS barely brings my health up now and by the time I get to it..it goes down..my potion consumption has doubled...so..I guess its working as intended.(meaning they want us to spend our gold on pots and be out of money so we will buy more)
Seriously, if you run a dungeon with one DC you better make sure they know wtf they're doing. AS barely brings my health up now and by the time I get to it..it goes down..my potion consumption has doubled...so..I guess its working as intended.(meaning they want us to spend our gold on pots and be out of money so we will buy more)
What about... getting out of the freaking RED AREAS?... i PUG a lot, even having a nice guild, im not always in the mood for teamspeak guild runs, so i play 4-5 quick runs with the guild and about the same with pugs, T1s and T2s... some pugs are horrible, people who refuse to talk, to even read what people is telling them, people who are simply fail, people who are serious ******s... still , half of the runs, even the hardest ones, are doable with PUGs, as long as you are willing to TALK and work as a group.
The patch is AWESOME, not perfect, but really really good, DCs now can focus on thinking and healing like its meant too, not in running amok pursued by gazillion mobs, GFs can be GFs, DPS specced are still the best spec, but you can succeed with tanky tanks!
GWFs are now nice to play and balanced, TRs are still the best class, not only because they combine huge DPS and too high survivality, but because also theyre helluva fun to play, CWs are a little messy, still the most needed class behind DC in t2s and with the second single feature that the groups are most dependant, singularity, ok, they got nerfed hard because they were really OP, but they're still balanced and powerful at CC, less at DPS.
Game still have great flaws, like lag spikes, being unable to play outleveled content (not being able to play skirmishes at 60 is huge), really small TTK in PvP (what about giving PvP players 3x health? ) and give them rankings, premade vs premade entrys, and gear score grouping, all features that will calm them and allow us, PvE players be more free of new "class balances"
But right now... is FUN and sometimes GREAT to play, a good, smooth run in a t2 instance where the difficulty is high but the group manages to work together to beat it... is a great feeling, the farming aint really obnoxious, the economy is playable for those who like playing economies... if you dont have fun playing this game... DON'T.
Now as players level up they might just start gearing up appropriately for their level and using some enchants,buying better companions and stop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out the power stat for big damage numbers.I mean I'm not into the whole gear score thing,but when I see players around level 48 to 50 with gear scores barely scratching the 3500 mark....well ****.
And it still amazes me the number of players still face tanking the red circles and Boss special hits,all standing bunched up ready to be reaped.Fun days still playing as a DC. lol
Comments
astral shield was a giant crutch that was covering up the issues with the GF and DC, and since it has been removed the issues are becoming obvious to everyone.
in the long run it is actually a good thing. just sucks right now.
if you want me to be more specific, DC has mediocre to poor healing abilities without AS and needs many of their skills adjusted so they can perform their role. GF is not designed properly to tank the masses of adds that spawn along with a boss. having red circles under your feet permanently and getting knocked around like a rag doll is not fun.
i just switched to playing a control wizard for now. i dont have to worry about tanking or healing and i can just dps and control things while the majority of everything and everyone ignores me. its quite relaxing after playing a DC and GF.
you mean all the points that disagree with you that were put up by everyone? or the 4 or 5 that you agree with?
you seem to mistakenly believe that I care enough to do such a thing.
"countering all the points put up by everyone(that you specifically agree with)" serves no purpose. why? because the standard response that any of you will provide is "blahblahblah fanboy blahblahblah white knight blahblahblah".
Sure, the game is dead. the patch killed the game. all the Clerics quit. every single one of them. Nobody has or will ever complete ANY dungeon ever, because of this patch.
on the forums.
in the actual game, I'm not so sure.
The bosses and adds always needed to be toned down. If you have a game with a random grouping feature (such as this game) then the #1 thing you need to keep in mind when designing content is that the typical random group needs to be able to beat the content they are grouping for. At least 90% of randomly formed groups should successfully complete the content they grouped for or people will stop using the random grouping feature and you may as well not even have one (which is sad because a random grouping feature is a big draw since it lets everyone play dungeon content). You can tell that this game's content is too difficult because people are constantly shouting for groups rather than joining the queue because randomly formed groups tend to fail a lot.
Lets not forget that CW is not even working correctly at the moment.
Game needs difficulty selection to appeal to broader player base.
Some people want a casual game. Some people want a hardcore game. Some people want both, at different times; or something in between. No reason one game can't have difficulty levels to appeal to all sorts of players. Not like that is anything new in gaming...
You can't really take the ratio of agree vs. disagree in a typical post because people on message boards love to argue. You get people that normally group with their guild and usually succeed at dungeons saying the game is fine. These same people refuse to use the random group finder because those groups usually fail, but they still claim the game is fine because they found a workaround. If the game were actually fine then people that used the grouping feature provided in the game (the random one that is supposed to be a useful feature or else they would not have bothered putting it in) would usually succeed at the content they queued for. If you are not willing to use the random grouping feature because you know you are probably going to fail, then you know the difficulty is not actually fine, but since you found a way around it you are arguing simply because that is what people on message boards do.
For a real world example, the economy can be "bad" but anyone that has a great job they are happy with tends not to feel like the economy is really that bad because it is not hurting them directly. The moment they lose their job the economy instantly becomes terrible in their eyes even though the economy was just as terrible the day before they lost their job. People in games are the same way. If your guild suddenly vanished and you had to form random groups the game would instantly become too hard because it was too hard all along. You were just successfully avoiding the real challenge up to that point. The real challenge in any MMO is defeating content with a random group of strangers. A well-oiled group of people that know how to work together can easily beat any content in any game. Pick-up groups are where challenge is found and where the true difficulty of a game is measured.
I see what you are saying.
as far as difficulty goes...so what if it is hard? why does everything need to be faceroll easy? I'm not a hardcore pro player by any means. I'm gonna wipe on these dungeons hard in a pick-up group. and I'm fine with that. eventually, I'll get through it.
I'm not gonna sit here and demand that the Devs make the game any easier.
I can't answer for the OP but I will for me. I have complained lately about the TON of CW bugs from the patch. Between the spells, feats and gear not working properly in so many cases 3 days from launch it is not acceptable. I post in hopes that someone actually monitors the boards and values the customer feedback.
Specifically to your question as to why I don't leave if I complain:
1) I have spent about $100 between founders pack and various zen purchases
2) I enjoyed the game at first and recognize a lot of potential in it. I am hoping it improves.
In fairness to you the poster you responded to I suppose was pretty negative but I can understand the frustration.
What about... getting out of the freaking RED AREAS?... i PUG a lot, even having a nice guild, im not always in the mood for teamspeak guild runs, so i play 4-5 quick runs with the guild and about the same with pugs, T1s and T2s... some pugs are horrible, people who refuse to talk, to even read what people is telling them, people who are simply fail, people who are serious ******s... still , half of the runs, even the hardest ones, are doable with PUGs, as long as you are willing to TALK and work as a group.
The patch is AWESOME, not perfect, but really really good, DCs now can focus on thinking and healing like its meant too, not in running amok pursued by gazillion mobs, GFs can be GFs, DPS specced are still the best spec, but you can succeed with tanky tanks!
GWFs are now nice to play and balanced, TRs are still the best class, not only because they combine huge DPS and too high survivality, but because also theyre helluva fun to play, CWs are a little messy, still the most needed class behind DC in t2s and with the second single feature that the groups are most dependant, singularity, ok, they got nerfed hard because they were really OP, but they're still balanced and powerful at CC, less at DPS.
Game still have great flaws, like lag spikes, being unable to play outleveled content (not being able to play skirmishes at 60 is huge), really small TTK in PvP (what about giving PvP players 3x health? ) and give them rankings, premade vs premade entrys, and gear score grouping, all features that will calm them and allow us, PvE players be more free of new "class balances"
But right now... is FUN and sometimes GREAT to play, a good, smooth run in a t2 instance where the difficulty is high but the group manages to work together to beat it... is a great feeling, the farming aint really obnoxious, the economy is playable for those who like playing economies... if you dont have fun playing this game... DON'T.
pvp seems pretty normal to me as a rogue only those shield toting warriors seem a bit over buffed...
the new bop patch in my mind will kill the game but many say otherwise so just wait and see if its too unbearable to farm and make ad through the ah.
Now as players level up they might just start gearing up appropriately for their level and using some enchants,buying better companions and stop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out the power stat for big damage numbers.I mean I'm not into the whole gear score thing,but when I see players around level 48 to 50 with gear scores barely scratching the 3500 mark....well ****.
And it still amazes me the number of players still face tanking the red circles and Boss special hits,all standing bunched up ready to be reaped.Fun days still playing as a DC. lol