I'll lower myself to your level so you can comprehend my words:
Enchants aren't free, can you guess where they come from? Sure you can't, let me tell you then: Dungeons! Now you can have a candy if you can repeat that with understanding.
You run dungeons to farm enchants? Oh boy sounds like a lot of fun! I believe you are the idiot. No one farms dungeons for enchants BoP ruins the entire game. Also, enchants are farmed elsewhere besides dungeons.
I only just started playing, but I think this is a wonderful change... It means people will run those high level dungeons for longer amounts of time to get their items. That adds longevity to the game. It's fun running for items (and frustrating when X item doesn't drop in four weeks) but not fun running for currency to play the AH game. Look at what happened to D3.
What?! You get your item and you are done running the dungeon. In fact, if an item drops that specific character will NOT run the dungeon again. What's the point running the dungeon again? Oh to stack up on those Ancient Spymasters dagger that are BoP right? LMAO
This question is to everyone who thinks BoP is a good idea. Once you got your item do you really think you are going to run the same dungeon again for the same item?
Also, if BoP gets implemented they are going to make the drop rates 100x worst. Why? See above for obvious logic.
BoP fully geared = do nothing....nope actually theres tons of stuff to do, but the player has issues with the way 9/10th of the game works and only wants to play this one really narrow aspect of the game. So yeah, do nothing.
BoE fully geared = run quests and NEED on all gear, yanking it out of the hands of those who could be upgrading their gear just so you can sell it back to them on the AH, merely on the grounds that the game itself assigned someone who cant actually use the gear a higher random number than the person who can actually upgrade their gear with said loot.
What?! You get your item and you are done running the dungeon. In fact, if an item drops that specific character will NOT run the dungeon again. What's the point running the dungeon again? Oh to stack up on those Ancient Spymasters dagger that are BoP right? LMAO
This question is to everyone who thinks BoP is a good idea. Once you got your item do you really think you are going to run the same dungeon again for the same item?
Also, if BoP gets implemented they are going to make the drop rates 100x worst. Why? See above for obvious logic.
Most players play the game because its fun to play the game. The loud minority that keeps carrying on that theres absolutely no reason to run a dungeon after they are fully equipped will be gone soon anyhow regardless of the change or not, and the rest of the players who actually play the game for entertainment, rather than loot drops, can continue playing it for that very purpose.
I see a lot of crying about BoP, but at least there are some people who acknowledge that this is how almost all MMO's are.
The mistake is that they didn't include BoP from start. However, considering that it is still technically in open beta...get over it! QQ more. New players will never get the benefit we've all had for a couple of months.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
BoE fully geared = run quests and NEED on all gear, yanking it out of the hands of those who could be upgrading their gear just so you can sell it back to them on the AH, merely on the grounds that the game itself assigned someone who cant actually use the gear a higher random number than the person who can actually upgrade their gear with said loot.
Umm ... you know you can't need on gear you can't equip anymore, right?
Also, I agree with you that people play for fun, but running the same dungeon over and over again for a very small chance at getting the item you want is absolutely boring.
Edit: I wouldn't mine BoP on some new, rare, and powerful gear, but I don't think standard end game gear should be BoP.
I see a lot of crying about BoP, but at least there are some people who acknowledge that this is how almost all MMO's are.
The mistake is that they didn't include BoP from start. However, considering that it is still technically in open beta...get over it! QQ more. New players will never get the benefit we've all had for a couple of months.
Pretty much but those new players won't be victim of an epic item cartel hold by the player who amassed insanely high amount of AD already preparing their way to the new items so they can farm again, excluding the ones who didn't pay for their Best in slot gear, because it would reduce their profit.
Pretty much but those new players won't be victim of an epic item cartel hold by the player who amassed insanely high amount of AD already preparing their way to the new items so they can farm again, excluding the ones who didn't pay for their Best in slot gear, because it would reduce their profit.
I have an idea!
Why don't we just give all of the new players a max level fully geared character and just make it an FPS.
Curious of one thing.
How on earth do all the other mmo's that have bop for end game gear survive?
Because its been around for years, and hasn't affected others.
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kristingraveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Sit around and twiddle your thumbs in game.
That's all we will be able to do soon.
Lift me up.. Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
Why don't we just give all of the new players a max level fully geared character and just make it an FPS.
That should even things out alright.
Neverduty joins rank against the hordes of zombies invading Nevercity like neverbefore. Use powerful weapon to kill your opponents or versus players in a deathmatch in the Rivenscar Ruin.
I have "stopped" playing the game after the AH AD exploit, loging 2-4 times a day only to farm RAD in my alts. After the "balance" pacth I returned and saw that the GWF buffs are a complete joke. Resolved to up a TR and use she to get gear to my GWF, but now nearly at lvl 30 I see it is totally pointless, I will not be able to farm CN gear to my GWF, because the gear are going to be binded in my TR even if the item as been got by Greed roll, and I'm not going to get that gear with my GWF because no one wants she in the party, because GWF are useless to do the window-fast-run, AND I'm not going to get the gear in AH too, because the best dungeon gear is going to be binded to your char even if it dont use the item.
OP has it pretty spot on. However, making things BoP create a steadier climb, its far too easy to reach the peak at the moment (not counting the enchant game)
However UNLESS the non-tier items go up in value (which will to some extent). the incentive for a full geared individual (like myself) will find little incentive to go into dungeons, which i quite enjoy but doing it for nothing kinda defeats the purpose of dungeon crawling, when this patch goes live, why would i want to set foot in CN again, or do dungeons for that matter?
Right now theres always a reason, enchants go up to crazy prices (6mill or so). So there is always something to reach for, however with these new changes, such a thing would be out of reach from "playing" the game, only from "paying" the game, and what then when we fork out cash for it? twiddle our thumbs? i see no reason to continue playing if such a change goes live. Sure i can buy zen, but i want the option to play the game.
This all depends on what the value of the current "trash epics" will turn into.
It doesn't matter how much time or effort you put into the foundry when everything that comes out of it is garbage. You guys have a truly epic chance to make player made content a huge addition to the game; instead it's just mediocre at best and a huge time-sink. Yes, the current loot system just makes the game P2W in every aspect. Don't argue it isn't when you can easily buy zen, trade it to AD, then buy whatever you please and completely max everything out. That isn't fun in any way unless you're rich, have nothing better to use real world currency for, and don't like working for anything in-game. Yes it's personal choice to do that. Is it a good system to promote longevity in game software? No. All that will accomplish is a very short lived game where people get what they want because they are impatient and then get bored and leave because again they are impatient.
Yes you get tons of cash front loaded under the guise of entertainment (and it was entertaining for a while there don't get me wrong) but real entertainment is progressive not instant. Could you imagine if they released every episode of your favorite tv show in one night; and the episodes weren't even different (just the same episode over and over with the cast in different costumes). That is what dungeons feel like to me. The wait combined with variety is what makes the payoff worth it. The variety makes the wait not too tedious. Without the variety the wait is exponentially worse and vice versa. If you remove the wait the payoff just doesn't exist. It's all instant and then what? Like most things in the world; rewards are more rewarding when they are worked for.
Lacking an open world is also kind of boring but I do get that it's DDO essentially which was a lot of the same waiting around. This doesn't bug me outside of the fact that there is literally no real incentive to buy mounts. Why? to run around protectors enclave in circles faster flaunting your epeen? ok....Yes you have a surplus of cash. That is great for you and, even better, good for cryptic; as it fits into their business model perfectworldly. I could see that once you bought any mount all characters had access to it on that account. Pets follow the same path here in my opinion. I don't want to have to farm up the same pet x times so all of my charactes have access. That is just monotonous.
My other issue is more adds do not make content harder. They make it tedious as &%^$. There are too many effects that knock you around like a bean-bag. I can't count the times I have been killed in mid air during a knockback. Yea dodge is your argument I know. Don't even bother responding. Two dodges hardly account for the amount of ground effects floating around from literally everything and everyone. Some fights (FH for example) feel like you have just pulled all of the instance into the boss area. Sure there are ways to do it. Most people just want to glitch it though which is less about being skilled and more about bugging something on a ledge somewhere, pulling it to a fire to avoid add spawns, stacking a class mechanic,getting it to fall off a cliff and the list goes on ad nauseaum. This in itself screams that hardly anything has been completely tested internally.
When you can only beat content with 3x CW bugged on a crystal something is really wrong (not that it's the only way just an easy way) Stick a leash on bosses, tone down damage on ground effects an amount, update your bosses regular melee so they feel like bosses all of the time (not just when this big circle is down) and do something unique with fight additions(not just the swarm bs ever x%...literally every fight I swear...it's unimaginative and lazy) ...fixed... Yes you fixed aggro being able to be pulled off on people but you did not fix 20 adds spawning at once making it pretty useless to have classes with a limit of threat gen on targets. Now, additions have seemed to decreased in number but every fight is the same rinse/repeat <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with a different skin on it. There is not enough dynamic emphasis in encounters. Not enough to do outside of the normal tank, spank, avoid and kite ad nauseam.
The loot "fix" that is coming down the road is just....bad. You let this game's economy be dictated by the ability of players to sell everything for too long before implementing this fix. Why items weren't bop from start is completely puzzling. You have players leveling to 60 in a week or less (or more depending of course) and able to fully gear BiS in less than a day with a heavy wallet. I know you want money. What do you want more of? A lot of money over a few months or a markedly higher amount of money over a longer period of time? That is the real question. Do you want a larger player-base that spends averagely the same amount or a smaller one that pays a ridiculous amount. The former is far more lucrative I promise and why certain unnamed games have been so successful.
Stop catering to sweeping comments from the community. Most people do not understand the game outside of their own class mechanics. How do you fix this. HAVE EVERY developer that you utilize test all content on all characters. YES. Have them PLAY the game that they develop. A novel idea I know. It's obvious when certain things are so sweepingly unbalanced that your team never put an effort into t1-2 dungeons and pvp (atral stacking and shocking exec being the most obvious((seriously how you missed those two alone is beyond me)). As is the game is utterly broke. I have played far too many to not see this. I'm not comparing your game to others. I'm comparing it's stability to others on the other hand. Content is hardly a point of argument except when the content is all the same; otherwise it being different is fine and your own interpretation of an MMO (but again it isn't different really) It is widely unstable and I am tired of typing. I think i made my point. Take it however you wish. Flame away trolls. Disagree fanboys. etc etc etc. I don't care. I'm just putting in my two cents. The game is missing something. I don't know what. Maybe it's more complex content. Maybe it's a less cash-grabby nature. I don't know and I find myself caring less and less as time goes by.
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bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I do not want BOP. I do not want to run dungeons until I break down crying because my pieces won't drop... and some random person comes in "this is my first time here!" and gets their nice fancy piece.
I really do not like luck, if I work hard I should be rewarded.
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raggnaxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 14Arc User
It's only a non-constructive opinion about one of the possible outcome for the game whether this change goes live or not. The current and the proposed system both have flaws, we can endlessly argue which one is the worst, it all come down to perception, preference or opinion. *FACT*
the fun thing is, currently the normal AD for a lvl60 is:
50k-200k = poor but has a bit
200k-800k = normal amount to have
800k-2kkk+=rich
the zen shop prices are okay i think. 150k ad (current 300ad/z on Mindflayer) for more character slots.
stuff like character slots are the basics. and easy to obtain with current AD amounts.
now if you make everything BoP you'll push the whole AD down in the abyss:
maybe:
5k-30k = poor but has a bit
30k-80k = normal amount to have
80k-200k+=rich
what i want to say is, should'nt you lower the prices of your beloved cashshop at minimum 60% fulltime, the.game.will.end. PAY2WIN. nobody will have 150k left for character slots, or better said, WHY THE **** WOULD HE WASTE it? its like you pay 2million AD so you get character slots to todays AD time.
nobody will use the shop anymore except people that are willings to pay their real money for it
only rich people or ppl that pay real money will get the higher enchantments etc.
what a confirmed P2W system does to a f2p game should everybody know.
cryptic you're about to drive your game against a wall, with no airbags, and no possible survivors.
I do not want BOP. I do not want to run dungeons until I break down crying because my pieces won't drop... and some random person comes in "this is my first time here!" and gets their nice fancy piece.
I really do not like luck, if I work hard I should be rewarded.
i totally agree, its fun to farm dungs to get a chance at loot to sell so one day you can get geared. rather then ^ and repair bills
BOP will not kill this game if items bind to a user after them rolling need. It's been widely suggested. And, in my opinion, it is a very nice alternative.
if T2 and CN will be BoP. then the only thing to farm would be T1s for AD.
sounds kinda boring to me. but i could imagien T1 prices going up if this had an effect. the problem is with the epics that are non-set which is effectively trash. those pieces need to be upped to be made valuable. perhaps different sets of stats that make it desirable, like + AC or strange things that you wont see on T2 that would be an asset to use.
At the moment the incentive of having BoE prolongs the game, that is a fact (lol). However, having T2 able to sell so freely, defies the progression curve, when i hit 60 i could easily buy a whole set of T2 with 100k (not the most sort after) but non-theless, it was T2 and i had no reason to go near T1. So making it BoP is a good move in that regard. However you need to add extra loot to these T2 things that would be valuable still. like chance for blue companions, or unique cosmetics, green/blue mounts.
Anything that would be of some value and have demand of.
This is all hard to estimate, but if such a change goes live as it is. we will see an increase farm on T1, however because of its difficulty, it will become worthless, and eventually people will start to find the game going stale. the real improvement isnt from T2 but from the enchants which are far more costly.
My GWF has everything he will ever need. I can't be bothered to run the same old content anymore. Now I just PVP and listen to the "buy to play" QQ'ers in pvp matches.
Comments
You run dungeons to farm enchants? Oh boy sounds like a lot of fun! I believe you are the idiot. No one farms dungeons for enchants BoP ruins the entire game. Also, enchants are farmed elsewhere besides dungeons.
What?! You get your item and you are done running the dungeon. In fact, if an item drops that specific character will NOT run the dungeon again. What's the point running the dungeon again? Oh to stack up on those Ancient Spymasters dagger that are BoP right? LMAO
This question is to everyone who thinks BoP is a good idea. Once you got your item do you really think you are going to run the same dungeon again for the same item?
Also, if BoP gets implemented they are going to make the drop rates 100x worst. Why? See above for obvious logic.
BoE fully geared = run quests and NEED on all gear, yanking it out of the hands of those who could be upgrading their gear just so you can sell it back to them on the AH, merely on the grounds that the game itself assigned someone who cant actually use the gear a higher random number than the person who can actually upgrade their gear with said loot.
Most players play the game because its fun to play the game. The loud minority that keeps carrying on that theres absolutely no reason to run a dungeon after they are fully equipped will be gone soon anyhow regardless of the change or not, and the rest of the players who actually play the game for entertainment, rather than loot drops, can continue playing it for that very purpose.
The mistake is that they didn't include BoP from start. However, considering that it is still technically in open beta...get over it! QQ more. New players will never get the benefit we've all had for a couple of months.
- JailBreak (in development)
Umm ... you know you can't need on gear you can't equip anymore, right?
Also, I agree with you that people play for fun, but running the same dungeon over and over again for a very small chance at getting the item you want is absolutely boring.
Edit: I wouldn't mine BoP on some new, rare, and powerful gear, but I don't think standard end game gear should be BoP.
Pretty much but those new players won't be victim of an epic item cartel hold by the player who amassed insanely high amount of AD already preparing their way to the new items so they can farm again, excluding the ones who didn't pay for their Best in slot gear, because it would reduce their profit.
I have an idea!
Why don't we just give all of the new players a max level fully geared character and just make it an FPS.
That should even things out alright.
How on earth do all the other mmo's that have bop for end game gear survive?
Because its been around for years, and hasn't affected others.
That's all we will be able to do soon.
Lift me up..
Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
Neverduty joins rank against the hordes of zombies invading Nevercity like neverbefore. Use powerful weapon to kill your opponents or versus players in a deathmatch in the Rivenscar Ruin.
However UNLESS the non-tier items go up in value (which will to some extent). the incentive for a full geared individual (like myself) will find little incentive to go into dungeons, which i quite enjoy but doing it for nothing kinda defeats the purpose of dungeon crawling, when this patch goes live, why would i want to set foot in CN again, or do dungeons for that matter?
Right now theres always a reason, enchants go up to crazy prices (6mill or so). So there is always something to reach for, however with these new changes, such a thing would be out of reach from "playing" the game, only from "paying" the game, and what then when we fork out cash for it? twiddle our thumbs? i see no reason to continue playing if such a change goes live. Sure i can buy zen, but i want the option to play the game.
This all depends on what the value of the current "trash epics" will turn into.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Yes you get tons of cash front loaded under the guise of entertainment (and it was entertaining for a while there don't get me wrong) but real entertainment is progressive not instant. Could you imagine if they released every episode of your favorite tv show in one night; and the episodes weren't even different (just the same episode over and over with the cast in different costumes). That is what dungeons feel like to me. The wait combined with variety is what makes the payoff worth it. The variety makes the wait not too tedious. Without the variety the wait is exponentially worse and vice versa. If you remove the wait the payoff just doesn't exist. It's all instant and then what? Like most things in the world; rewards are more rewarding when they are worked for.
Lacking an open world is also kind of boring but I do get that it's DDO essentially which was a lot of the same waiting around. This doesn't bug me outside of the fact that there is literally no real incentive to buy mounts. Why? to run around protectors enclave in circles faster flaunting your epeen? ok....Yes you have a surplus of cash. That is great for you and, even better, good for cryptic; as it fits into their business model perfectworldly. I could see that once you bought any mount all characters had access to it on that account. Pets follow the same path here in my opinion. I don't want to have to farm up the same pet x times so all of my charactes have access. That is just monotonous.
My other issue is more adds do not make content harder. They make it tedious as &%^$. There are too many effects that knock you around like a bean-bag. I can't count the times I have been killed in mid air during a knockback. Yea dodge is your argument I know. Don't even bother responding. Two dodges hardly account for the amount of ground effects floating around from literally everything and everyone. Some fights (FH for example) feel like you have just pulled all of the instance into the boss area. Sure there are ways to do it. Most people just want to glitch it though which is less about being skilled and more about bugging something on a ledge somewhere, pulling it to a fire to avoid add spawns, stacking a class mechanic,getting it to fall off a cliff and the list goes on ad nauseaum. This in itself screams that hardly anything has been completely tested internally.
When you can only beat content with 3x CW bugged on a crystal something is really wrong (not that it's the only way just an easy way) Stick a leash on bosses, tone down damage on ground effects an amount, update your bosses regular melee so they feel like bosses all of the time (not just when this big circle is down) and do something unique with fight additions(not just the swarm bs ever x%...literally every fight I swear...it's unimaginative and lazy) ...fixed... Yes you fixed aggro being able to be pulled off on people but you did not fix 20 adds spawning at once making it pretty useless to have classes with a limit of threat gen on targets. Now, additions have seemed to decreased in number but every fight is the same rinse/repeat <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with a different skin on it. There is not enough dynamic emphasis in encounters. Not enough to do outside of the normal tank, spank, avoid and kite ad nauseam.
The loot "fix" that is coming down the road is just....bad. You let this game's economy be dictated by the ability of players to sell everything for too long before implementing this fix. Why items weren't bop from start is completely puzzling. You have players leveling to 60 in a week or less (or more depending of course) and able to fully gear BiS in less than a day with a heavy wallet. I know you want money. What do you want more of? A lot of money over a few months or a markedly higher amount of money over a longer period of time? That is the real question. Do you want a larger player-base that spends averagely the same amount or a smaller one that pays a ridiculous amount. The former is far more lucrative I promise and why certain unnamed games have been so successful.
Stop catering to sweeping comments from the community. Most people do not understand the game outside of their own class mechanics. How do you fix this. HAVE EVERY developer that you utilize test all content on all characters. YES. Have them PLAY the game that they develop. A novel idea I know. It's obvious when certain things are so sweepingly unbalanced that your team never put an effort into t1-2 dungeons and pvp (atral stacking and shocking exec being the most obvious((seriously how you missed those two alone is beyond me)). As is the game is utterly broke. I have played far too many to not see this. I'm not comparing your game to others. I'm comparing it's stability to others on the other hand. Content is hardly a point of argument except when the content is all the same; otherwise it being different is fine and your own interpretation of an MMO (but again it isn't different really) It is widely unstable and I am tired of typing. I think i made my point. Take it however you wish. Flame away trolls. Disagree fanboys. etc etc etc. I don't care. I'm just putting in my two cents. The game is missing something. I don't know what. Maybe it's more complex content. Maybe it's a less cash-grabby nature. I don't know and I find myself caring less and less as time goes by.
I really do not like luck, if I work hard I should be rewarded.
If you have max gear you do what you do in any game. Wait until the next expansion comes out and/or play an alt.
? Most games let you farm and grind out some form of wealth once you hit best in slot gear.
Apparently Cryptic intends to cap us at the pointless 24k refining cap...yay...
BOP will kill this game. *FACT*
It's only a non-constructive opinion about one of the possible outcome for the game whether this change goes live or not. The current and the proposed system both have flaws, we can endlessly argue which one is the worst, it all come down to perception, preference or opinion. *FACT*
50k-200k = poor but has a bit
200k-800k = normal amount to have
800k-2kkk+=rich
the zen shop prices are okay i think. 150k ad (current 300ad/z on Mindflayer) for more character slots.
stuff like character slots are the basics. and easy to obtain with current AD amounts.
now if you make everything BoP you'll push the whole AD down in the abyss:
maybe:
5k-30k = poor but has a bit
30k-80k = normal amount to have
80k-200k+=rich
what i want to say is, should'nt you lower the prices of your beloved cashshop at minimum 60% fulltime, the.game.will.end. PAY2WIN. nobody will have 150k left for character slots, or better said, WHY THE **** WOULD HE WASTE it? its like you pay 2million AD so you get character slots to todays AD time.
nobody will use the shop anymore except people that are willings to pay their real money for it
only rich people or ppl that pay real money will get the higher enchantments etc.
what a confirmed P2W system does to a f2p game should everybody know.
cryptic you're about to drive your game against a wall, with no airbags, and no possible survivors.
i totally agree, its fun to farm dungs to get a chance at loot to sell so one day you can get geared. rather then ^ and repair bills
Feedback is, please NO!!! No BoP.
sounds kinda boring to me. but i could imagien T1 prices going up if this had an effect. the problem is with the epics that are non-set which is effectively trash. those pieces need to be upped to be made valuable. perhaps different sets of stats that make it desirable, like + AC or strange things that you wont see on T2 that would be an asset to use.
At the moment the incentive of having BoE prolongs the game, that is a fact (lol). However, having T2 able to sell so freely, defies the progression curve, when i hit 60 i could easily buy a whole set of T2 with 100k (not the most sort after) but non-theless, it was T2 and i had no reason to go near T1. So making it BoP is a good move in that regard. However you need to add extra loot to these T2 things that would be valuable still. like chance for blue companions, or unique cosmetics, green/blue mounts.
Anything that would be of some value and have demand of.
This is all hard to estimate, but if such a change goes live as it is. we will see an increase farm on T1, however because of its difficulty, it will become worthless, and eventually people will start to find the game going stale. the real improvement isnt from T2 but from the enchants which are far more costly.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
This game is going places.