I'm on the fence with you but still, if you're dieing within 5 minutes of entering a boss fight there's a bigger problem. You should be able to survive at least five minutes. If you can't kelomena has a decent list of possibilities.
You're taking the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> here.
OP is absolutely right with all of his arguments.
This res sickness has absolutely no use other than wasting time.
It interests me, that Neverwinter is marketed as an "MMO Action RPG", and yet there are so many mechanics in place, that lead to a lot of standing around waiting for things to happen, or unhappen.
From a game design perspective Cryptic, do you really think it is a good idea to stick your players in one spot doing nothing? I understand the idea of time sink but a time sink usually involve engaging the players in doing something that takes some time. Here you are engaging the player in doing nothing at all.
And also notice that I am not talking about taking time to gather, travel time, merchant time or even rooting around in your inventory time. This is time that you designed in which the players are staring at their screen doing nothing at all.
In an age where attention spans have dwindled to the width of a powdered saffron stamen, do you really think this is a good plan?
From a game design perspective Cryptic, do you really think it is a good idea to stick your players in one spot doing nothing? I understand the idea of time sink but a time sink usually involve engaging the players in doing something that takes some time. Here you are engaging the player in doing nothing at all.
And also notice that I am not talking about taking time to gather, travel time, merchant time or even rooting around in your inventory time. This is time that you designed in which the players are staring at their screen doing nothing at all.
In an age where attention spans have dwindled to the width of a powdered saffron stamen, do you really think this is a good plan?
I'd just like to point out that MMOs are not for people with attention span of ADD sick cat.
I'd just like to point out that MMOs are not for people with attention span of ADD sick cat.
Sorry, but for some reason I just don't believe that dying and ressing all the fight should be a viable strategy.
I think you'r misunderstanding the point.
Res sickness is there to prevent players to keep ressurecting teammates during the actual fight.
We'r talking about being back at the campfire, once your team fully died.
There is absolutely no point in having the resurrection sickness still be there, while you are ready to give the (boss fight) another go.
If you did understand this though and actually think res sickness should be in the state it is now, you are not giving any valid argument for it to be this way.
So please provide some instead, other than just attacking people for no reason.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
I think you'r misunderstanding the point.
Res sickness is there to prevent players to keep ressurecting teammates during the actual fight.
We'r talking about being back at the campfire, once your team fully died.
There is absolutely no point in having the resurrection sickness still be there, while you are ready to give the (boss fight) another go.
If you did understand this though and actually think res sickness should be in the state it is now, you are not giving any valid argument for it to be this way.
So please provide some instead, other than just attacking people for no reason.
Must've misread ops intent then. In this case there is indeed no need for ress sickens to persist true death.
I don't have an issue with it, but then I try to use the time constructively. While revive sickness is up, encourage the party to take a breather - make a cup of tea or something - and then go over tactics again once everyone is back. I find if you do that it really makes a difference to the next attempt which is generally successful/progressive.
0
aienkoyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
I've seen people complain there's no penalty for dying, it's to easy to res and run back, whatever. When a game makes you sit for 5min people throw up their arms in revolt? LOL Imagine if these people played a real MMORPG back in the day where you lost your equipment and all you had was laying on the ground where you had to run back to get it. 5min wait? pffts that's not even a penalty.
If you sit in campfires or just stand in Protector's Enclave for 5 minutes injuries will go away. Otherwise you can use injury kits for faster progress.
Clerics were never intended to remove the effect.
Thread isn't about Injuries, it's about Rez Sickness. That thing that puts a damper on progression because of a wipe.
IMO Rez sickness needs to be removed as soon as combat ends and you release. It serves no purpose except to be annoying for annoyance's sake.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
I actually miss old EQ with its stat-reducing resurrection sickness. Being battle-resurrected and jumping back into the fray with 1/4 your normal stats and damage was actually exciting. I don't mind the 5 minutes because of my gaming experience in EQ, but it does seem pointless to just wait it out. I'd rather just get back into the fight with reduced stats, and would support such a change.
When out of combat campfires should:
1. heal
2. remove injuries (with time)
3. remove res sickness (immediately)
4. build up resources (divinity, etc)
Right now they do 1 and 2, but not 3 and 4, leading to a lot of downtime that doesn't serve a purpose..
I agree. They should, I dont see why not.
And the people talking about injuries are not reading correctly. This is not about injuries. Resurrection sickness and injuries are not the same thing. He is talking about the purple skull debuff you get after you are die and are resurrected.
0
shelendilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm on the fence with you but still, if you're dieing within 5 minutes of entering a boss fight there's a bigger problem. You should be able to survive at least five minutes. If you can't kelomena has a decent list of possibilities.
Really? Where I encounter this problem the most is teaching new players fights. Particularly on difficult content, like Castle Never. We had a new CW last night, and their role is completely key to making the last fight go smoothly. It rests on their shoulders. He had a learning curve, and of course we would die less than five minutes into the fight as he learned the nuances of when and how to manage the mobs. Then we must wait five minutes even if there is only one res sickness debuff among the group because we want these learning attempts not to be cut short by being unable to rez. (Btw, we did eventually kill it, but it was a more frustrating process than it needs to be.)
The penalty of using dozens of injury kits is enough to stop groups that are totally in over their head. The only thing this debuff is currently doing is discouraging experienced groups from taking new players. This is not good for the health of the game.
I've seen people complain there's no penalty for dying, it's to easy to res and run back, whatever. When a game makes you sit for 5min people throw up their arms in revolt? LOL Imagine if these people played a real MMORPG back in the day where you lost your equipment and all you had was laying on the ground where you had to run back to get it. 5min wait? pffts that's not even a penalty.
Take a <Word> guess why MMOs with those penalties arent created anymore.
0
snowballoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
We aint talking about the old mmo days.
Not only have the mmo's evolved, so did the players.
This game once you fail a boss attempt, puts you right outside the boss room, yet because you rezzed your cleric in your fail attempt, you'r sitting there waiting for his revive debuff to go away to not decrease your chances of success.
You all know the strategy, you have killed the boss 20000x before, yet your healer is having lag issues and gets unlucky with red circles.
Your whole team is doomed to wait for his revive debuff.
It's not like you'r not penalized already by the wasted time on the fail attempt, why should there be a useless wait on top of it?
The fight took you like 10~15 min and the boss was at 5% health, when the team ended up wiping while trying to ressurect the healer.
Now you'r back at the campfire and have to wait for the healers res sickness, even though you already wasted 15 minutes in the attempt.
The people defending the res sickness are talking about the old days, yet no sensible argument for the revive sickness is being made.
We are not living back in pre 2000 anymore and the games back then had an actual ressurect spell most of the time and a proper healer+tank, so if you go and compare things, you ll have to bring up the whole picture.
In fact those games were easier where Only the Tank and Healer needed to have any sort of skill 90% of the time and the rest could just go pew pew.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
Yes it is stupid on true death/wipe for the sickness to be a hindrance.
I can also see it as a built in breather for some folks who get a bit worked up during an encounter both in game and in forum. :rolleyes:
Pretty sure you don't need an artificial breather for that, especially not from a mechanic that wasn't introduced for that purpose to begin with.
In fact for the more impatient ones, this just makes it worse, as they end up running in with the revive sickness and have an even higher chance to fail.
The fact that you wipe on a boss gives plenty of room to go do whatever, pee, drink, chill out, anything.
You don't need to have a timer enforced on you for that, once you'r down completely it already creates the needed time.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
0
starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I never understood the whole idea behind forced death penalties. If your team is having trouble with a boss, then making the boss harder to kill makes no sense.
0
jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
well, for all who always badmouthing "exploiters" now you know, like it or not you are exploiters too ...
usually it take 1 hour give or take to finish 1 dungeon (at your level) but now I believe it take more. for those who build cleric under "reduce damage" change it or solo will be not worth it.
oh yea, cleanse never intended to clear "just died" also not intended to clear entire debuff ... BUT .. it is not intended do clear debuff 1 per 20 sec. so it is nerf not a fix
Guess they shouldn't put 45 minutes to complete on the dungeon then under the queue, since it takes over an hour.
As has been said, if you're in the campfire, you're dead. There is no reason whatsoever not to remove the revive sickness. The fight is more than likely starting over. It should be started over where you have two chances to die, not one because of the sickness. This isn't about injuries.
TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
0
jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've seen people complain there's no penalty for dying, it's to easy to res and run back, whatever. When a game makes you sit for 5min people throw up their arms in revolt? LOL Imagine if these people played a real MMORPG back in the day where you lost your equipment and all you had was laying on the ground where you had to run back to get it. 5min wait? pffts that's not even a penalty.
See, that's a real death penalty. If the game was designed around that, to let you have a chance NOT to die, then it would be alright. Here, you die constantly. Sitting in a fire and waiting for the sickness to go away, is a serious annoyance. I don't play games to be constantly annoyed.
TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
0
jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm on the fence with you but still, if you're dieing within 5 minutes of entering a boss fight there's a bigger problem. You should be able to survive at least five minutes. If you can't kelomena has a decent list of possibilities.
In a perfect game, yes. But, when you get one-shotted from an aoe that you were a mile out of, then the bigger problem is the game. The player shouldn't have to have that extra annoyance on top of the bugs.
TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
0
snowballoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Hope the devs think about this.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
about keeping res sickness after you die the 2nd time in a boss fight:
it has a good chance of happening when you release before combat ends
if you release after combat ends (i.e. the boss resets), you will never have it when you respawn
i agree campfires should remove it after a short time (1 min at most)
the current "fix" for res sickness after a boss, is to not release until after the boss resets
hopefully there will be a change for this problem in the near future
0
iwrestlebearzMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2013
You guys should really just change Cleanse so that it can't remove sickness during combat. Removing it outside of combat isn't too much to ask for.
Comments
You're taking the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> here.
OP is absolutely right with all of his arguments.
This res sickness has absolutely no use other than wasting time.
And here is the prime example of players who relies on bugs, dies often and QQs when things get fixed and he actually have to LEARN to survive.
From a game design perspective Cryptic, do you really think it is a good idea to stick your players in one spot doing nothing? I understand the idea of time sink but a time sink usually involve engaging the players in doing something that takes some time. Here you are engaging the player in doing nothing at all.
And also notice that I am not talking about taking time to gather, travel time, merchant time or even rooting around in your inventory time. This is time that you designed in which the players are staring at their screen doing nothing at all.
In an age where attention spans have dwindled to the width of a powdered saffron stamen, do you really think this is a good plan?
Nice ad hominem. No sane person defends resurrection sickness in its current state.
I'd just like to point out that MMOs are not for people with attention span of ADD sick cat. Sorry, but for some reason I just don't believe that dying and ressing all the fight should be a viable strategy.
I think you'r misunderstanding the point.
Res sickness is there to prevent players to keep ressurecting teammates during the actual fight.
We'r talking about being back at the campfire, once your team fully died.
There is absolutely no point in having the resurrection sickness still be there, while you are ready to give the (boss fight) another go.
If you did understand this though and actually think res sickness should be in the state it is now, you are not giving any valid argument for it to be this way.
So please provide some instead, other than just attacking people for no reason.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
Oh my god, you know so much about me, it's almost as if you've known me for my entire life. I think we should get married.
It's just a smaller one.
Point is, it doesn't serve any purpose. It's literally "take 5, for...no reason. Try not to suck so much next time, k?"
Thread isn't about Injuries, it's about Rez Sickness. That thing that puts a damper on progression because of a wipe.
IMO Rez sickness needs to be removed as soon as combat ends and you release. It serves no purpose except to be annoying for annoyance's sake.
Character is what a man is in the dark
What I do not miss is the XP loss.
I agree. They should, I dont see why not.
And the people talking about injuries are not reading correctly. This is not about injuries. Resurrection sickness and injuries are not the same thing. He is talking about the purple skull debuff you get after you are die and are resurrected.
Really? Where I encounter this problem the most is teaching new players fights. Particularly on difficult content, like Castle Never. We had a new CW last night, and their role is completely key to making the last fight go smoothly. It rests on their shoulders. He had a learning curve, and of course we would die less than five minutes into the fight as he learned the nuances of when and how to manage the mobs. Then we must wait five minutes even if there is only one res sickness debuff among the group because we want these learning attempts not to be cut short by being unable to rez. (Btw, we did eventually kill it, but it was a more frustrating process than it needs to be.)
The penalty of using dozens of injury kits is enough to stop groups that are totally in over their head. The only thing this debuff is currently doing is discouraging experienced groups from taking new players. This is not good for the health of the game.
You guys defending sickness are so <Words>.
Take a <Word> guess why MMOs with those penalties arent created anymore.
Not only have the mmo's evolved, so did the players.
This game once you fail a boss attempt, puts you right outside the boss room, yet because you rezzed your cleric in your fail attempt, you'r sitting there waiting for his revive debuff to go away to not decrease your chances of success.
You all know the strategy, you have killed the boss 20000x before, yet your healer is having lag issues and gets unlucky with red circles.
Your whole team is doomed to wait for his revive debuff.
It's not like you'r not penalized already by the wasted time on the fail attempt, why should there be a useless wait on top of it?
The fight took you like 10~15 min and the boss was at 5% health, when the team ended up wiping while trying to ressurect the healer.
Now you'r back at the campfire and have to wait for the healers res sickness, even though you already wasted 15 minutes in the attempt.
The people defending the res sickness are talking about the old days, yet no sensible argument for the revive sickness is being made.
We are not living back in pre 2000 anymore and the games back then had an actual ressurect spell most of the time and a proper healer+tank, so if you go and compare things, you ll have to bring up the whole picture.
In fact those games were easier where Only the Tank and Healer needed to have any sort of skill 90% of the time and the rest could just go pew pew.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
Yes it is stupid on true death/wipe for the sickness to be a hindrance.
I can also see it as a built in breather for some folks who get a bit worked up during an encounter both in game and in forum. :rolleyes:
Pretty sure you don't need an artificial breather for that, especially not from a mechanic that wasn't introduced for that purpose to begin with.
In fact for the more impatient ones, this just makes it worse, as they end up running in with the revive sickness and have an even higher chance to fail.
The fact that you wipe on a boss gives plenty of room to go do whatever, pee, drink, chill out, anything.
You don't need to have a timer enforced on you for that, once you'r down completely it already creates the needed time.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
Guess they shouldn't put 45 minutes to complete on the dungeon then under the queue, since it takes over an hour.
As has been said, if you're in the campfire, you're dead. There is no reason whatsoever not to remove the revive sickness. The fight is more than likely starting over. It should be started over where you have two chances to die, not one because of the sickness. This isn't about injuries.
See, that's a real death penalty. If the game was designed around that, to let you have a chance NOT to die, then it would be alright. Here, you die constantly. Sitting in a fire and waiting for the sickness to go away, is a serious annoyance. I don't play games to be constantly annoyed.
In a perfect game, yes. But, when you get one-shotted from an aoe that you were a mile out of, then the bigger problem is the game. The player shouldn't have to have that extra annoyance on top of the bugs.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
it has a good chance of happening when you release before combat ends
if you release after combat ends (i.e. the boss resets), you will never have it when you respawn
i agree campfires should remove it after a short time (1 min at most)
the current "fix" for res sickness after a boss, is to not release until after the boss resets
hopefully there will be a change for this problem in the near future
that would probably be the best-case scenario