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Stolly's GwF Sentinel Offtank/Tank PvE build!
stolly76
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 70
Heya people. First of all this should not be taken as a definite build to go with with new patch changes to Sentinel and this is just a personal experiment of mine. Just thought I'd come up with my own thoughts of what I'll make my gwf go with in regards to the Sentinel path and only with PvE. Update: With my powers though I've doubled up to cover both pve and pvp incase I want to try pvp out 
First I'll list the abilities that I will use at lvl 60.
Class: Weapon master (Single and pvp)
Class: Bravery for the awesome 15% deflection (added with gear deflection stats possibly get above 50% deflection) and movement speed bonus (Single target and kiting encounters) **deflect stat doesn't scale well** see Freehugs9 link I provided below
Class: Destroyer (aoe)
Class: Steel blitz (aoe)
Class: Steel defense (very tough boss encounter with heavy adds swap out Steel blitz for this and for pvp also) **Works nicely alongside soulforge armor enchant**
Dailies: Crescendo and Slam combo (thought about Spinning, but I've thought of using it as a get out of jail free if unstoppable isn't ready in pvp plus linked with Steel defense class feature..not tested yet)
At-Wills: Weapon masters strike and Sure strike
Encounters: (NOTE: Hopefully the group you are with allows you to swap out powers for different sitations) **Encounters for sentinel are still a work in progress**
Single target encounter mobs: Restoration strike, Flourish and DARING SHOUT
Group of encounter mobs: IB Strike, Daring Shout and Roar **for my destro build I always use IBS and roar and x for certain situations**
Powers:
Up to 5 points: All x3 except Reaping x2
5 points: Restoringstrike x3 Mightyleap x2
10 points: Slam x3
15 points: Takedown and bravery x3
20 points: Roar and Weapon master x3
30 points: All x3
35 points: WMS x3
40 points: Steel defense x3
45 points: Both x3
50 points: Indomitable and Crescendo x3
Feats:
I would strongly advise Human (bonus 3 heroic feats) but you don't have to play human.
Heroic feats:
Unstoppable action: 5/5
Disciple of strength: 3/3
Endless assault: 3/3
Armor Specialization: 3/3
Steely defense: 5/5 **Possibly will swap out this for 2 more points in Weapon Master and 3 points put into Toughness if power stat isn't great enough to combine with DeepGash** I can get a 500 power bonus if I am 2500 defense, which isn't too bad considering not many offensive slots will be available**
Devastating critical: 3/3
Weapon Mastery: 1/3
Sentinel feats:
Student of the sword: 5/5
Powerful challenge 5/5 **Benefits from roar, daring shout etc**
Grudgestyle: 5/5 **paired with GreatWeapon Focus feats extra 10% surestrike dmg**
Defiance: 5/5 **bonus defence from slam and threat even if it's over 1463 defense still benefit with more power for dps from the Steely Defense heroic feat**
Master of Arms: Skipped for a reason **testing out to see if i can get cap of deflect as the deflect stat doesn't scale well. I believe with my gear and the Armor Specialization feats plus Sentinel Aegis my AC will be at a minimum of 33 therefore ruling out needing anymore ac from Master of Arms. I wanted to get an extra 5 points to put into GreatWeapon Focus for more atwill dmg.**
Sentinel's Aegis: 1/1 **Added with Armor Spec feats for obtaining minimum of 33 AC to pair up with atleast 1463 defense and getting 50% more heal from resto strike plus having 1k minimum of lifesteal may combo nicely.**
Destroyer feats:
Deep Gash 5/5 **would have to have decently high power to get benefit from this and need to keep up with better destro/instigator dps (6k minimum)**
GreatWeapon Focus: 5/5 **10% increased atwill dmg, but mainly to boost surestrike with it's Grudgestyle boosted crit chance and threat**
Gear and Stats: Going to completely change my gear stats and gear testing to consider what Freehugs9 has provided us with his link below in the credits. I am going to focus on near - full dps gear for testing. I will not be limiting dps with using my old combo of Scrappers and Titans. I have full Vigilant set, AoW, Ancient Castle, possibly may buy 2 Duelists items from GG merchant with my coins and also have reaver's edge still in bank collecting dust. Though with Freehugs9's findings I might not need the tanky stats from using Reaver's Edge anymore once I know I have hit caps for certain stats etc. **There is no need to use azure enchantments for defense slots anymore instead use lifesteal**
Edit: defense stats I'm aiming for 1463..daring shout will help with not having to stack defense also (woohoo room for more stats to improve) If I can get about 2500 defense from feats boosting it then I'm happy to keep Steely Defense and Deepgash.
P.s I play on the Dragon server with VanDamme (lvl 60 Human Destro Gwf) and Orca Porka (lvl 60 Half Orc Sentinel Gwf)
Credit to Kyuubill for his Sentinel Theorycrafting Gwf discussion that I provided link below.
Credit to Veleriawhitewolf for stating about the Daring Shout being bit weak with test shard. (I am testing it though just to check)
Credit also to Freehugs9 (a favourite theorycrafter of mine) for his valuable contribution that I have eager plans to take advantage of from his thread--> http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?403041-Great-Weapon-Fighter-mitigation
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?404071-GWF-Constitution-Focus-Feat-improves-Armor-Penetraion
First I'll list the abilities that I will use at lvl 60.
Class: Weapon master (Single and pvp)
Class: Bravery for the awesome 15% deflection (added with gear deflection stats possibly get above 50% deflection) and movement speed bonus (Single target and kiting encounters) **deflect stat doesn't scale well** see Freehugs9 link I provided below
Class: Destroyer (aoe)
Class: Steel blitz (aoe)
Class: Steel defense (very tough boss encounter with heavy adds swap out Steel blitz for this and for pvp also) **Works nicely alongside soulforge armor enchant**
Dailies: Crescendo and Slam combo (thought about Spinning, but I've thought of using it as a get out of jail free if unstoppable isn't ready in pvp plus linked with Steel defense class feature..not tested yet)
At-Wills: Weapon masters strike and Sure strike
Encounters: (NOTE: Hopefully the group you are with allows you to swap out powers for different sitations) **Encounters for sentinel are still a work in progress**
Single target encounter mobs: Restoration strike, Flourish and DARING SHOUT
Group of encounter mobs: IB Strike, Daring Shout and Roar **for my destro build I always use IBS and roar and x for certain situations**
Powers:
Up to 5 points: All x3 except Reaping x2
5 points: Restoringstrike x3 Mightyleap x2
10 points: Slam x3
15 points: Takedown and bravery x3
20 points: Roar and Weapon master x3
30 points: All x3
35 points: WMS x3
40 points: Steel defense x3
45 points: Both x3
50 points: Indomitable and Crescendo x3
Feats:
I would strongly advise Human (bonus 3 heroic feats) but you don't have to play human.
Heroic feats:
Unstoppable action: 5/5
Disciple of strength: 3/3
Endless assault: 3/3
Armor Specialization: 3/3
Steely defense: 5/5 **Possibly will swap out this for 2 more points in Weapon Master and 3 points put into Toughness if power stat isn't great enough to combine with DeepGash** I can get a 500 power bonus if I am 2500 defense, which isn't too bad considering not many offensive slots will be available**
Devastating critical: 3/3
Weapon Mastery: 1/3
Sentinel feats:
Student of the sword: 5/5
Powerful challenge 5/5 **Benefits from roar, daring shout etc**
Grudgestyle: 5/5 **paired with GreatWeapon Focus feats extra 10% surestrike dmg**
Defiance: 5/5 **bonus defence from slam and threat even if it's over 1463 defense still benefit with more power for dps from the Steely Defense heroic feat**
Master of Arms: Skipped for a reason **testing out to see if i can get cap of deflect as the deflect stat doesn't scale well. I believe with my gear and the Armor Specialization feats plus Sentinel Aegis my AC will be at a minimum of 33 therefore ruling out needing anymore ac from Master of Arms. I wanted to get an extra 5 points to put into GreatWeapon Focus for more atwill dmg.**
Sentinel's Aegis: 1/1 **Added with Armor Spec feats for obtaining minimum of 33 AC to pair up with atleast 1463 defense and getting 50% more heal from resto strike plus having 1k minimum of lifesteal may combo nicely.**
Destroyer feats:
Deep Gash 5/5 **would have to have decently high power to get benefit from this and need to keep up with better destro/instigator dps (6k minimum)**
GreatWeapon Focus: 5/5 **10% increased atwill dmg, but mainly to boost surestrike with it's Grudgestyle boosted crit chance and threat**
Gear and Stats: Going to completely change my gear stats and gear testing to consider what Freehugs9 has provided us with his link below in the credits. I am going to focus on near - full dps gear for testing. I will not be limiting dps with using my old combo of Scrappers and Titans. I have full Vigilant set, AoW, Ancient Castle, possibly may buy 2 Duelists items from GG merchant with my coins and also have reaver's edge still in bank collecting dust. Though with Freehugs9's findings I might not need the tanky stats from using Reaver's Edge anymore once I know I have hit caps for certain stats etc. **There is no need to use azure enchantments for defense slots anymore instead use lifesteal**
Edit: defense stats I'm aiming for 1463..daring shout will help with not having to stack defense also (woohoo room for more stats to improve) If I can get about 2500 defense from feats boosting it then I'm happy to keep Steely Defense and Deepgash.
P.s I play on the Dragon server with VanDamme (lvl 60 Human Destro Gwf) and Orca Porka (lvl 60 Half Orc Sentinel Gwf)
Credit to Kyuubill for his Sentinel Theorycrafting Gwf discussion that I provided link below.
Credit to Veleriawhitewolf for stating about the Daring Shout being bit weak with test shard. (I am testing it though just to check)
Credit also to Freehugs9 (a favourite theorycrafter of mine) for his valuable contribution that I have eager plans to take advantage of from his thread--> http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?403041-Great-Weapon-Fighter-mitigation
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?404071-GWF-Constitution-Focus-Feat-improves-Armor-Penetraion
Post edited by stolly76 on
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Comments
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?330641-Sentinel-s-Assemble!-(Sentinel-theorycraft-discussion)
Thanks to Kyuubill!
I'm using 2/4 Titans set and 2/4 Scrappers set on VanDamme will give update about how it goes.
Also going to test both my Sharpening axe with plaguefire in it and enchant my Reaver's edge that is the same dmg with lifedrinker enchant. I want to see how they both go.
EDIT: Also to add, I am just curious, because you explained that you play insta and destro, and will be switching to sentinel? So what do you know to work right now on PTS? I think its a layout for someone to go off of. But Builds in this game are not like others. (6$ ect ect ect respec...)
people want something a little more paramount.
I like your side comments on the ideas you have and those help get the engine going so to speak
@veleriawhitewolf : I agree, it seems like cagi and weapon master strike are more predominant when it comes to snapping threat to yourself. Don't forget a well placed cagi and get your 4th sure strike a massive threat pop on anything under that blade.
Okay back to having some fun
With the changes to healing threat, having enough threat for off-tanking should be pretty easy. Healing threat will be divided amongst the enemies in combat, so if you're attacks are hitting 5 targets you're getting 5 times more threat per point of damage/healing than they are.
Main tanking is a different issue, you're getting about a 25% threat bump from Feats which means you need to be doing at least 80% as much damage is the DPS to hold agro. If you're stacking defensive stats you might not be doing enough. My guess is that the threat boost from Sentinel feats makes up for the DPS lost from not having Instigator or Destroyer feats, but you'll still need primarily DPS gear to hold agro as a main tank.
Even with DPS gear Rogue's will probably pull agro on single targets and while your sustained AoE agro will beat a Control Wizard, they'll likely pull the initial AoE agro front-loading their AoE encounters.
i have all 3 teir 2 sets i have both ancient weapons. i have all the gear and i feel like i almost do nothing compared to a GF tank. i'm 25% sure you can't tank epic castle never as GWF. atm all you really have to run is a GF 2 TRs with smoke a DC and a CW that can solo knock back. the only thing i haven't tried is tanking T2 5mans.
T2 sets:
Titan set: The Titan set lacks damage and focuses way too much on defence. not to mention the amount of life steal/regen it gives is laughable. it also doesn't give any recovery making it even more pointless. who cares about the sets bonuses for it as well.
Avatar of War set: this is honestly a dps set and depending on the group and what your doing it can work but if CN is the goal here. this set isn't enough tankyness to get the job done. especialy when certain skills take too long to cast, leaving you in red circles.
Viligilant warlord set: i found this to be the best set to tank in. alots of power, lots of def and lots of recovery. 4set isn't too bad either.
Other thoughts: Cryptic please look to Tera's Lancer(for GF) to get better ideas for solving the block problem because blocking for GFs need to be more fluid. As a 'tank' you don't want to spend what might seem like forever to "cast" a skill because time is threat. daring/threatening shout for both take way too long to "cast". this is even more apparent when your tanking huge groups of mobs. you become a giant target while you cast theses long skills. however you look at this the tanking aspect of this game is no where near to where it needs to be.
note: i'm really tired at the point of posting so bare with me >.<.
Honestly, and I feel bad since I got a shoutout in OP:
This has been my experience, I tried going 4/4 titan, 2 titan/2 bladestorm (recovery), 4 duelist just.. Nothing seemed to work, party was a DC, 2 wizards, Tr, and me, and I couldn't hold threat off of anyone unless I started the fight with slam and spammed sure strike.. and the group wasn't UBER HIGH DPS, either, TR averaged about 3.2 mil over a CoK run.
I'm immortal, flat out, with 4/4 titan, I've stood in bosses red circles and taken 300 damage, it's silly. But I don't feel like I can hold anything off anyone. =/
This has been my experience with Sentinel as well, absolutely amazing survivable but poor aggro control. I am not nearly as well geared as you are (Only at 8.9k GS) and there was very little that could kill me. The only thing Sentinel seems effective at tanking is bosses and other large mobs. If you are given a few seconds to beat on it you can typically hold hate well enough, but AOE situations are rough. Slam with Defiance talented is basically your only solid form of AOE threat (Daring Shout is extremely underwhelming for threat, though the Damage Resist can be great). I found that the sure strike threat boosting talent to be the most useful thing for threat though its only for a single target.
Honestly it seems like they are trying to make the Sentinel into the Single Target Tank and letting Guardian Fighter be the add tank. I was able to tank the Mad Dragonr while the Guardian fighter grabbed the adds as they ran at the cleric and it worked very well. This being said if the Guardian Fighter attacks your target for any substantial amount of time, he will get aggro and there is nothing you can do about it. I was never able to get a mob off of a Guardian Fighter that was actively attacking it.
Only reason to go Sentinel a the moment for PVE at least is if you want to be extremely survivable and are willing to trade some of your damage for it.
1. GF threat smokes us, if your planning on que'ing randoms this spec is a waste atm and you will almost always get a GF as the system DOES NOT recognize you as a tank. So in other words your only job is picking up stragglers which can be done just as well as dps and bring more to the group. This is a bit disappointing.
2. As stated by others CaGI and Daring Shout are a bit underwhelming on threat production. Issues here that I see are that even with the feat Intimidation CaGI and Daring Shout still do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for damage and 100% threat on <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is still <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I wont even spec into intimidation atm. Daring Shout is good for determination and marking, however mark is a little underwhelming atm being it disappears when target hits you, which in turn makes the feat powerful challenge feel lackluster (for a tank at least, has dps potential).
3. Continuing with threat we only have 3 talents that increase our threat, and all 3 are on specific abilities. Intimidation sucks and is a waste of time IMO. Grudge style is good, especially when combined with greater weapon focus, but is only single target. Defiance is great, but tied to Daily so is limited. So what am I getting at with this? We need to do some DPS with Sentinel to maintain threat on AoE, a full tank set up is out of the question as the dps is way to low. As much as I love the Titan set, I am regretting getting it and instead thinking vigilant or even the PvP set would be better. However I am still trying to work Titan 4 piece into it since I love that, like Ryuu said, you feel invincible.
4. Pvp... well I'm waiting for doing testing at 60, but from level 58-59 I never felt so godly as a GFW, straight up beast mode. However things change at 60 and I didn't get a chance to fully test it out, however I think with a Defense, Crit, ArP setup this spec has a lot of potential as not only a Juggernaut on the field, but having just enough damage to do something with it.
So my initial reactions to this is that for 5 mans, potential is extremely limited. Unless you have a group of friends that just feel sorry for you, you are better of using a GF tank and going DPS. However, this spec may have viability in Gauntletgrym. You definitely need DPS, though whether its through PvP sets land stacking Def, Crit, and ArP, or going with Vigilant and stacking recovery for Slam spam remain to be seen.
Finally, to point out these are all my initial reactions, they are no means a right or wrong answer, just thoughts thrown out to weigh against others. I may be wrong, I may be right, I may change my mind.
With Roar and Daring shout, any fight with 3+ monsters around (Hint all of them) provides me with a maybe 8 second downtime between Slam being up
Reading all comments and having some thoughts and considering everyone with their opinions. I think since i'm lucky I still have the 4 vigilant set already on VanDamme I'm gonna try that out properly. Now for weapon I only have the sharpening axe with plaguefire in it still because i was Destro before patch. I also have a epic sword that does the same damage, but is more of a tanky stats weapon. Deflection defense etc on it.
My main goal for this build was to atleast aim to be an offtank, but if there is somehow a good chance of being a tank to nearly match a gf with most situations then I'll keep testing. With the weapon that's not enchanted I was thinking of putting a Lifedrinker enchant in it. Could it give me a boost with aggro because of the heal and matching it with restoration strike be a good combo? Or is the dps issue the problem where I should try to maintain atleast more dps 85-90% of members in group to keep aggro? Actually since I'm lucky i'll test out both using the Sharpening axe with the plaguefire in it and will enchant the Reaver's edge with lifedrinker.
Thanks for the info guys and please let me know what you think I'm doing wrong with any of the feats etc I'm picking.
Let me know what you think of the selection of my powers. I'm actually hoping that reaping strike gets changed in future so I've made it rank 3 incase.
Slam certainly got attention from me when i moved near other adds to get them on me and when i was using unstoppable it was nice too. Just wish could have the chance of mobs not being knocked around and i think it would be better. Bad news though with my gear that was what I had with destro spec before patch I need to get new gear with empty sockets as my deflect was only 360+ thereabouts and defense 2k.
I need to completely get more deflect and defense boosted soon if i want to run with my guild for Grym. My power was about 4350, Crit 2500-2750 and recovery about 3250 and arp about 1750..was about 1950 with destroyer spec as i had the feat that gave more ARp from recovery. I am trying to get my Reaver's edge enchanted with Lifedrinker just need to get a coalescent ward and i'll be right as i have the shards in bank. Next run I do I"m hoping to see how the Restoration strike, Flourish and Daring Shout goes with single target bosses only.
I loved feeling like a juggernaught though even with my very low deflect I was still tough and had to use some potions, but I really hope I can get the right ratio of losing dps to get this higher. My damage overall was about 8.5 mill and highest was another gwf that was destroyer with just on 10mill followed by a CW with 9.5mill so I did make the 85% goal of being close to highest dps to try and keep aggro. Just hope I can get the ratio right I don't want to fail because of too much dps sacrificed.
I tried my best, but just the aoe aggro isn't good enough..i could solo most times, but a good rogue will out aggro me today and that's just not good enough on my part. If there's anyone out there that wants to keep going with experiments then don't give up keep going. Just wasted my free respec and getting some tank gear but atleast i kept all my dps gear in bank as backup.
Take care all
Before you go, what did you find to be the most viable set of armor 2x set bonus or 4x set bonus, overall?
I had also tried full dps set I had with using Destro and even with good dps wasn't good enough. I went back to Destro last night and did Spiders and I seemed more powerful than prepatch lol. I know that is wierd considering Destro didn't get much love.
In PvP he is a beast, absolute beast. PvE he is a good sub for a GF if the GF isn't available to go to a Dungeon and/or can compliment well in a 1 of Everyone Party as he will kite adds away from Cleric/Wiz while they do their thing. Honestly I have a lot of fun with Sentinel PvP and PvE. He isn't optimal for PvE as Threat generation is still too far behind GFs, but I still have fun and that is what matters.