Heh.. I remember when UO tried to go 3D.... it wasn't ready back then
but I digress.
I think I beginning to understand where you are coming from. I think it is also the player base that cause the shift in MMO.
Open world is nice, but it take some serious coding people to make stuff "happen" in the open world.
I notice a lot of game are more into what we called "Railroad" design. you are limited on where to go and how to get there. A lot of games does this to "guide" the players to certain mission, do certain things, and defeat certain boss. They have "gated content" like level base entry, encounters and such.
I notice that a lot of games (mainly multiplayer base) have smaller "land" the exception would be older one like EVE and WoW. (those are pretty big) I remember Asheron's call was pretty big and DAOC. but modern game the land is smaller because it is easier to guide people to do things you want to do.
This and flashy graphic set the "stone" for devs to create from.
I do miss real open world where you can go someplace just cause not because a quest force you to be there.
NOW......... the awesome side of things is Foundry. Player generate content. This actually make the land "bigger" but again still "small" compare to vast open world. We are limited in what we can do, but we can "virtually" open more worlds/maps/places to go with foundry.
Yes the foundry is the one thing in neverwinter that is somewhat "revolutionary". The problem is that they put so many limitations on it that they shot themselves in the foot. No real boss mobs allowed is one of the biggest flaws. I'm not sure what they were afraid of there. And again its still just rooms and hallways.
hahha somebody already gave the answer to this foundry there is a good deep content in foundry and well i iwll probably create some after i'm lv 60 probably based on other old games with a good great history and well once we have the option to include like real bosses into the mix and some decent drops i think people will like them better my conten if i create any probably will be able to be done on party and Solo and party will be more challenging and probably with better rewards is going to be interesting and with a great history and a lot of play hahaha.
however i do agree this game is pretty simple it needs some changes that can be applied probably a more open world feeling maybe who know time will tell
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
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malishanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yea. I do miss that. I think the developers may take the "easy" way out cause it is easier to produce and people accept it. BUT it is also customer base. I notice that players (in general not anyone in particular) don't really like "hard" game. There is a niche of players who LOVE hard stuff and willing to invest time to play, but the general public (where devs want to get their money) doesn't want to spend 3 months getting that "epic bracer of might and awesome sauce" on RNG. People want stuff "now now now" and thus, simpler mind = simpler game
Yes the customer base is partly to blame, because they haven't yet spoken with their wallets as much as they need to. They keep buying the games and in game items just enough that publishers can see a profit by crapping out another generic mmo. People play them for 1-4 months and move on. Those games aren't lasting 15 years like UO has. Even everquest 1 is still running, and I'd venture to guess that if that game had a modern 3d engine with a rebuild of the world it would be better than most current mmos. It's really sad.
You'd think by now there would be a GOOD commercial library if not a open source library for mmo development and that developers could actually spend time on and even focus entirely on content and gameplay. I'm not saying making an mmo is easy, but as long as they've been around I see no good reason why they should have gone backwards.
First of all, it's not open-world, so it will never have the depth I think some people are looking for. By open-world, I mean you walk out of the city without using a map transition, you simply walk outside and keep walking around until you get where you're going. Neverwinter isn't really a world per se -- it's just a (fairly small) collection of (fairly small) maps. So not a lot of depth there.
^ This.
Open-world wins for depth, immersion etc every time.
Second of all, there are no skills, or any other kind of non-combat abilities. So, no depth there.
^ This also. LOTRO has great immersion value because of its non-combat skills. If there is one thing that is totally outstanding, a in a totally different league to any other MMO out there, about LOTRO it is tie Music System. Nothing to do with combat at all, just for "downtime" fun, but it adds so much, I've "RP'd" a wedding between two kin-mates where we had other kinnies as the "band" all playing the same song, in-synch. Not something you want to do every day, or even every week; but it was great fun, we were all on VOIP, all getting very "merry" both in-game and IRL, and it was absolutely brilliant fun. This is what RPGs used to be about when they were all table-top pen and paper games - getting together, having a laugh.
Action MMO's don't allow that, in fact I'd go so far as to say that Neverwinter isn't even real roleplay D&D, its a "3rd person shooter" in a fantasy setting.
The scope for RP of any kind is zero, so the depth is also zero, and that means the immersion is zero; and that (for the bean-counters out there who think they know best) means a short shelf-life.
Third of all, it's an action MMO, that only lets you bind a few powers to keys at a time. So there's not going to be much depth during the combat either.
^ And this. One at least two of my toons I haven't even spent points on powers after I maxed out the "first in slot" powers. There's really no need, like all "shooters" rather than true MMOs the combat isn't complex or difficult enough to really need to swap out to situational skills.
This game is hardly the penultimate MMO, it's a very very specific kind of MMO that I happen to find pretty fun (until around level 30-40) despite it having basically 0 depth. I doubt I'll stick with it long-term
The only thing that will keep me here long term, the only thing keeping me here now, is the Foundry.
In terms of a Fantasy MMO the game barely scores "above average". It is only the Foundry that adds any hope of depth and so game-world immersion.
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
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0
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
I believe the issue is RoI (Return on Investment)
Each gaming company (even large one) have a set amount of money they can spend in development. the trick is trying to get most of it with what you have.
open world is nice, but if you want to make it memorable, you are going to need someone to program the terrain and couple of artist to make it unique and awesome (you don't want generic terrain 105 and then 205 etc) This actually take time to develop especially if they are making from scratch (i.e. new idea)
It is much easier to develop enclose space and fill it with stuff (back to railroading) When using Railroad method (neverwinter does this) it is easier to code specific zone and keep it small.
You can virtually open it up via virtual world (in this case foundry) maybe someday we can go even up a level to be like second life where you can create ANYTHING and put into your area (island/land) but sadly, there will always be people who will put inappropriate stuff because they can and thus we are limited to the tools given. Heck, even with certain option, people abuse it (like ogre hunting for fast exp) it always take a few to ruin for the many. That is why we can't have nice stuff
And you're dead wrong about companies trying over and over again to reinvent the genre because they havent.
Of course they have. Do you really think these companies don't want to put the next WoW on the market? Do you believe there haven't been teams of people sitting around big conference tables for years, and as we speak, brainstorming on how to make the next big breakthrough in MMO's?
Again you are missing my point, or maybe you just disagree with it so strongly that you are choosing to ignore it. We are in total agreement - of course you can change the theme. You can have fantasy, sci-fi, horror, cartoon-land, superheroes, gangsters - any theme of fiction, or reality, can be turned into an MMO, and has been. Of course you can change the weapons, you can change the look, you can upgrade the graphics, you can tweak the mechanics.
But your hero will be an avatar. He will be armed with something. The combat mechanics will be very, very similar. There will be leveling. There will be questing. There will be endgame, which will get stale before new content is delivered. There will be grouping, group combat mechanics, good guys, bad guys, most likely some kind of PVP interwoven with PVE achievements. That is the MMO genre, and that is what no one has been able to upgrade to anything fresh.
F2p model is killing game innovation in ways most people will never understand. Why make millions with a fantastic new innovative game, when you can make billions peddling rehashed garbage? Greed, lack of pride in the product, and the almighty dollar, is what's killing true innovation on the gaming front.
Neverwinter is basically a barebones reskin of STO. It plays like an amateur mod of STO that hasn't yet figured out how to add all the features of its source material. I went from NW to STO instead of the other way around and was shocked. So many missing features and so little content. Despite both games being the same engine and UI. Everything NW is blatantly missing, STO has.
They should have copied over more of STO before they soft launched NW -.-
So what the OP is really asking is, when is someone going to come up with some fresh ideas for MMO's?
This is really a foolish question. Do YOU have any fresh ideas? It's like asking "When is someone going to come up with a better television?" They may very well do so, but you're still gonna be sitting there watching the same old **** on it.
No it's not. It's the format. Let me lay it out plainly:
MMO FORMAT:
*You = Avatar
*Combat and questing for XP's, resulting in advancement of levels
*Player crafting of in-game items
*Grouping for powerful enemies
*In-game economy featuring an auction hall of some kind
*Gear = Prime motivator
*Level cap, ultimate exhausting of content
*Sandbox movement
There you have it - all MMO's.
Take something away from that and players will miss it. Add something to it and players will ignore it.
MMO's are like chess. You can change the way the pieces look, vary the rules ever so slightly, but ultimately, if it's not played by the classic rules, it ends up being <chess.
People like the MMO format. People don't like variations of it. People like to SAY they want something new, but if you actually gave them something new, they wouldn't like it. Reason: MMO's are mini-life, with all the key ingredients - but unlike real life, MMO's feature a clear-cut, easily-accomplished path to success.
0
malishanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Of course they have. Do you really think these companies don't want to put the next WoW on the market? Do you believe there haven't been teams of people sitting around big conference tables for years, and as we speak, brainstorming on how to make the next big breakthrough in MMO's?
Again you are missing my point, or maybe you just disagree with it so strongly that you are choosing to ignore it. We are in total agreement - of course you can change the theme. You can have fantasy, sci-fi, horror, cartoon-land, superheroes, gangsters - any theme of fiction, or reality, can be turned into an MMO, and has been. Of course you can change the weapons, you can change the look, you can upgrade the graphics, you can tweak the mechanics.
But your hero will be an avatar. He will be armed with something. The combat mechanics will be very, very similar. There will be leveling. There will be questing. There will be endgame, which will get stale before new content is delivered. There will be grouping, group combat mechanics, good guys, bad guys, most likely some kind of PVP interwoven with PVE achievements. That is the MMO genre, and that is what no one has been able to upgrade to anything fresh. In a horror movie, anything can happen. In an MMO, only one thing can happen - max level, endgame, and ultimately, boredom.
Apparently you have never played some of the more innovative mmo's out there. In the current batch of generic mmos, which is all alot of people (like you) seem to know, you are 100% right. In the best ones, or at least the ones I've played the longest and the ones that my friends and aquaintances like best and played the most, the leveling and "endgame" as you mean it were the least part of the game. I played UO for 3 years, 2.5 years of which was with the same maxxed level character. Alot of people played much longer and or are still playing, and all in a game with outdated 2d graphics. It wasnt the leveling and grind and hunt for purples that kept the game interesting, it was the interactivity of the world and the variety of things you could do in it.
Another game, shadowbane, I had probably 10 max level characters. Each of them took maybe 2 weeks to max lvl and gear up, and yet I and friends played several years. It's really too hard to explain to someone that only knows whats out there now, which is complete <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Publishers are ripping off hopefull gamers for a quick buck. Thankfully this one is "free", that and the foundry being the only redeeming qualities of the game.
0
malishanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No it's not. It's the format. Let me lay it out plainly:
MMO FORMAT:
*You = Avatar
*Combat and questing for XP's, resulting in advancement of levels
*Player crafting of in-game items
*Grouping for powerful enemies
*In-game economy featuring an auction hall of some kind
*Gear = Prime motivator
*Level cap, ultimate exhausting of content
*Sandbox movement
There you have it - all MMO's.
Take something away from that and players will miss it. Add something to it and players will ignore it.
MMO's are like chess. You can change the way the pieces look, vary the rules ever so slightly, but ultimately, if it's not played by the classic rules, it ends up being <chess.
People like the MMO format. People don't like variations of it. People like to SAY they want something new, but if you actually gave them something new, they wouldn't like it. Reason: MMO's are mini-life, with all the key ingredients - but unlike real life, MMO's feature a clear-cut, easily-accomplished path to success.
lol let me guess, you are an mmo developer or publisher? I'd guess that you are because thats the same lack of imagination or blatant ignorance that 98% of the game companies, or at least the publishers seem to have. People DO like variations and additions to it, if they aren't done half *** and as after the fact poorly designed <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> thrown in to expand a feature list. Like I say your ignorance shows, it shows exactly how far backwards games have come since UO because you don't even know what is missing.
There is virtually nothing to do in this game and most other recent games other than kill mobs. They didn't even give us wow style (pre-bc) world pvp here in neverwinter. Pathetic.
You are missing the point, and I venture to guess that you are some kind of idiot. Are you saying that the gameplay of yesterday just cant work with modern graphics? You could take a beefed up UO server only slightly modified, tack on a modern 3d engine to the client, model a 3d world to go with it and have a game that is vastly superior to most current mmos.
I'm talking about features that seem relatively minor that add immensely to gameplay. The ability to hide a loot bag anywhere in the world. Seems minor, but added nicely to the interactivity of the world. If you never played UO when it first came out I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain more reasons why I feel games have gone backwards as far as gameplay features. Neverwinter's world though which is a whole other issue, is completely laughable. The whole game inside or out is nothing but hallways and rooms, and doesn't feel like a world at all. I'm glad that at least a few upcoming games are at least trying to push the boundaries back a bit and regain lost ground. ArcheAge for one has some decent possibilities.
I think you are missing his point of the other fellow.
If the game play of UO is so intriguing to you, why don't you play it?
You aren't going to get games of the depth of UO with modern graphics, as the market for players that want that kind of depth isn't that large in the world of instant, or at least quick, gratification.
As such, you likely won't find a game like UO but with a modern flair.
So, which matters more to you... the depth of game play in a game like UO, or the glitz of modern MMOs.
If it is the former, then you'd be better off looking at older titles that are still running, rather than hoping that modern products are going to suddenly shift in nature to be like the old ones.
0
beriielkisrin1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2013
/rant
OK so, lol Ultima Online.
People got bored of pretending to be a tavern keeper, or serving pizza,(Pax on Chessy server) or saying aye, or getting married in game (hey I met my real life husband in uo 13 years ago). Most people left, and this is why UO isn't more popular than WoW.
People beg and beg for housing in games, but it hasn't taken off in mmos since uo - due to the fact that most of us were selling the silly things for real life cash (thanks to those who funded my college education!). I can point out EQ2, and Anarchy Online in which we got housing and no one ever really used it.
UO had no depth, that's why we moved to EverQuest. It was <Bleep>-awful boring, especially after the trammel-felucia split.
Star Wars (the original mmo) tried to make a game with serious depth, and I mean SERIOUS depth, and they had to close it down because almost no one played.
AC2 was a stab (OK in the dark) at making an innovative mmo. Closed.
DDO was an attept at making an innovative mmo (it is) but is still not as popular as WoW.
Defiance, a stab (in the dark) at making an innovative mmo.
Elder Scrolls is an attempt, We'll see when it's comes out.
This game here is an attempt to do something different.
People have been grousing for years about "no new innovative mmos," but have yet to even come up with something innovative that we all agree on. A 15 year-old game as an example is not innovative.
If you want to pretend to be a npc, do it and guard the darn holy chick at the prayer center.
*Thats my rant for the day, I feel better.
0
cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
People got bored of pretending to be a tavern keeper, or serving pizza,(Pax on Chessy server) or saying aye, or getting married in game (hey I met my real life husband in uo 13 years ago). Most people left, and this is why UO isn't more popular than WoW.
People beg and beg for housing in games, but it hasn't taken off in mmos since uo - due to the fact that most of us were selling the silly things for real life cash (thanks to those who funded my college education!). I can point out EQ2, and Anarchy Online in which we got housing and no one ever really used it.
UO had no depth, that's why we moved to EverQuest. It was <Bleep>-awful boring, especially after the trammel-felucia split.
Star Wars (the original mmo) tried to make a game with serious depth, and I mean SERIOUS depth, and they had to close it down because almost no one played.
AC2 was a stab (OK in the dark) at making an innovative mmo. Closed.
DDO was an attept at making an innovative mmo (it is) but is still not as popular as WoW.
Defiance, a stab (in the dark) at making an innovative mmo.
Elder Scrolls is an attempt, We'll see when it's comes out.
This game here is an attempt to do something different.
People have been grousing for years about "no new innovative mmos," but have yet to even come up with something innovative that we all agree on. A 15 year-old game as an example is not innovative.
If you want to pretend to be a npc, do it and guard the darn holy chick at the prayer center.
*Thats my rant for the day, I feel better.
SWG wasn't closed down because "almost no one played" since it had "SERIOUS depth". It was closed down after NGE ruined it.
DDO wasn't innovative. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed DDO for a classic dungeon crawl, but it was far too instanced. The only thing innovative about it was when they transformed it into F2P. Turbine's F2P model is still the gold standard in my book.
Defiance was supposed to be innovative, going along with the SyFy show, but it just turned out to be another shooter.
I don't think Elder Scrolls will be innovative at all. Just an MMO with little to no UI and still doing things like every other MMO/RPG. Looks interesting, so I will absolutely check it out. But innovative? No.
And I think you got UO wrong a bit. It has as much depth as you want to give it. Plenty if you role-play and organize your own player-run town (with the help of the green community mods), etc. But as a WoW-like MMO, correct, it has no substance. It's all about player housing and making your own way in what you choose to do.
If you really want innovative, look to titles like Minecraft. Or better yet, look to new indie projects designed to be MMORPGs on the horizon like Pathfinder Online or Camelot Unchained.
And Neverwinter isn't really innovative since the Foundry was already in place with STO. Neverwinter is still a cross between an action RPG and an MMO. Mostly instanced, action combat, light on the quickslot bars.
Comments
Yes the foundry is the one thing in neverwinter that is somewhat "revolutionary". The problem is that they put so many limitations on it that they shot themselves in the foot. No real boss mobs allowed is one of the biggest flaws. I'm not sure what they were afraid of there. And again its still just rooms and hallways.
however i do agree this game is pretty simple it needs some changes that can be applied probably a more open world feeling maybe who know time will tell
Yes the customer base is partly to blame, because they haven't yet spoken with their wallets as much as they need to. They keep buying the games and in game items just enough that publishers can see a profit by crapping out another generic mmo. People play them for 1-4 months and move on. Those games aren't lasting 15 years like UO has. Even everquest 1 is still running, and I'd venture to guess that if that game had a modern 3d engine with a rebuild of the world it would be better than most current mmos. It's really sad.
You'd think by now there would be a GOOD commercial library if not a open source library for mmo development and that developers could actually spend time on and even focus entirely on content and gameplay. I'm not saying making an mmo is easy, but as long as they've been around I see no good reason why they should have gone backwards.
^ This.
Open-world wins for depth, immersion etc every time.
^ This also. LOTRO has great immersion value because of its non-combat skills. If there is one thing that is totally outstanding, a in a totally different league to any other MMO out there, about LOTRO it is tie Music System. Nothing to do with combat at all, just for "downtime" fun, but it adds so much, I've "RP'd" a wedding between two kin-mates where we had other kinnies as the "band" all playing the same song, in-synch. Not something you want to do every day, or even every week; but it was great fun, we were all on VOIP, all getting very "merry" both in-game and IRL, and it was absolutely brilliant fun. This is what RPGs used to be about when they were all table-top pen and paper games - getting together, having a laugh.
Action MMO's don't allow that, in fact I'd go so far as to say that Neverwinter isn't even real roleplay D&D, its a "3rd person shooter" in a fantasy setting.
The scope for RP of any kind is zero, so the depth is also zero, and that means the immersion is zero; and that (for the bean-counters out there who think they know best) means a short shelf-life.
^ And this. One at least two of my toons I haven't even spent points on powers after I maxed out the "first in slot" powers. There's really no need, like all "shooters" rather than true MMOs the combat isn't complex or difficult enough to really need to swap out to situational skills.
The only thing that will keep me here long term, the only thing keeping me here now, is the Foundry.
In terms of a Fantasy MMO the game barely scores "above average". It is only the Foundry that adds any hope of depth and so game-world immersion.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
Each gaming company (even large one) have a set amount of money they can spend in development. the trick is trying to get most of it with what you have.
open world is nice, but if you want to make it memorable, you are going to need someone to program the terrain and couple of artist to make it unique and awesome (you don't want generic terrain 105 and then 205 etc) This actually take time to develop especially if they are making from scratch (i.e. new idea)
It is much easier to develop enclose space and fill it with stuff (back to railroading) When using Railroad method (neverwinter does this) it is easier to code specific zone and keep it small.
You can virtually open it up via virtual world (in this case foundry) maybe someday we can go even up a level to be like second life where you can create ANYTHING and put into your area (island/land) but sadly, there will always be people who will put inappropriate stuff because they can and thus we are limited to the tools given. Heck, even with certain option, people abuse it (like ogre hunting for fast exp) it always take a few to ruin for the many. That is why we can't have nice stuff
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Of course they have. Do you really think these companies don't want to put the next WoW on the market? Do you believe there haven't been teams of people sitting around big conference tables for years, and as we speak, brainstorming on how to make the next big breakthrough in MMO's?
Again you are missing my point, or maybe you just disagree with it so strongly that you are choosing to ignore it. We are in total agreement - of course you can change the theme. You can have fantasy, sci-fi, horror, cartoon-land, superheroes, gangsters - any theme of fiction, or reality, can be turned into an MMO, and has been. Of course you can change the weapons, you can change the look, you can upgrade the graphics, you can tweak the mechanics.
But your hero will be an avatar. He will be armed with something. The combat mechanics will be very, very similar. There will be leveling. There will be questing. There will be endgame, which will get stale before new content is delivered. There will be grouping, group combat mechanics, good guys, bad guys, most likely some kind of PVP interwoven with PVE achievements. That is the MMO genre, and that is what no one has been able to upgrade to anything fresh.
In a horror movie, anything can happen. In an MMO, only one thing can happen - max level, endgame, and ultimately, boredom.
Man you nailed it
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
They should have copied over more of STO before they soft launched NW -.-
No it's not. It's the format. Let me lay it out plainly:
MMO FORMAT:
*You = Avatar
*Combat and questing for XP's, resulting in advancement of levels
*Player crafting of in-game items
*Grouping for powerful enemies
*In-game economy featuring an auction hall of some kind
*Gear = Prime motivator
*Level cap, ultimate exhausting of content
*Sandbox movement
There you have it - all MMO's.
Take something away from that and players will miss it. Add something to it and players will ignore it.
MMO's are like chess. You can change the way the pieces look, vary the rules ever so slightly, but ultimately, if it's not played by the classic rules, it ends up being <chess.
People like the MMO format. People don't like variations of it. People like to SAY they want something new, but if you actually gave them something new, they wouldn't like it. Reason: MMO's are mini-life, with all the key ingredients - but unlike real life, MMO's feature a clear-cut, easily-accomplished path to success.
Apparently you have never played some of the more innovative mmo's out there. In the current batch of generic mmos, which is all alot of people (like you) seem to know, you are 100% right. In the best ones, or at least the ones I've played the longest and the ones that my friends and aquaintances like best and played the most, the leveling and "endgame" as you mean it were the least part of the game. I played UO for 3 years, 2.5 years of which was with the same maxxed level character. Alot of people played much longer and or are still playing, and all in a game with outdated 2d graphics. It wasnt the leveling and grind and hunt for purples that kept the game interesting, it was the interactivity of the world and the variety of things you could do in it.
Another game, shadowbane, I had probably 10 max level characters. Each of them took maybe 2 weeks to max lvl and gear up, and yet I and friends played several years. It's really too hard to explain to someone that only knows whats out there now, which is complete <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Publishers are ripping off hopefull gamers for a quick buck. Thankfully this one is "free", that and the foundry being the only redeeming qualities of the game.
lol let me guess, you are an mmo developer or publisher? I'd guess that you are because thats the same lack of imagination or blatant ignorance that 98% of the game companies, or at least the publishers seem to have. People DO like variations and additions to it, if they aren't done half *** and as after the fact poorly designed <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> thrown in to expand a feature list. Like I say your ignorance shows, it shows exactly how far backwards games have come since UO because you don't even know what is missing.
There is virtually nothing to do in this game and most other recent games other than kill mobs. They didn't even give us wow style (pre-bc) world pvp here in neverwinter. Pathetic.
I think you are missing his point of the other fellow.
If the game play of UO is so intriguing to you, why don't you play it?
You aren't going to get games of the depth of UO with modern graphics, as the market for players that want that kind of depth isn't that large in the world of instant, or at least quick, gratification.
As such, you likely won't find a game like UO but with a modern flair.
So, which matters more to you... the depth of game play in a game like UO, or the glitz of modern MMOs.
If it is the former, then you'd be better off looking at older titles that are still running, rather than hoping that modern products are going to suddenly shift in nature to be like the old ones.
OK so, lol Ultima Online.
People got bored of pretending to be a tavern keeper, or serving pizza,(Pax on Chessy server) or saying aye, or getting married in game (hey I met my real life husband in uo 13 years ago). Most people left, and this is why UO isn't more popular than WoW.
People beg and beg for housing in games, but it hasn't taken off in mmos since uo - due to the fact that most of us were selling the silly things for real life cash (thanks to those who funded my college education!). I can point out EQ2, and Anarchy Online in which we got housing and no one ever really used it.
UO had no depth, that's why we moved to EverQuest. It was <Bleep>-awful boring, especially after the trammel-felucia split.
Star Wars (the original mmo) tried to make a game with serious depth, and I mean SERIOUS depth, and they had to close it down because almost no one played.
AC2 was a stab (OK in the dark) at making an innovative mmo. Closed.
DDO was an attept at making an innovative mmo (it is) but is still not as popular as WoW.
Defiance, a stab (in the dark) at making an innovative mmo.
Elder Scrolls is an attempt, We'll see when it's comes out.
This game here is an attempt to do something different.
People have been grousing for years about "no new innovative mmos," but have yet to even come up with something innovative that we all agree on. A 15 year-old game as an example is not innovative.
If you want to pretend to be a npc, do it and guard the darn holy chick at the prayer center.
*Thats my rant for the day, I feel better.
SWG wasn't closed down because "almost no one played" since it had "SERIOUS depth". It was closed down after NGE ruined it.
DDO wasn't innovative. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed DDO for a classic dungeon crawl, but it was far too instanced. The only thing innovative about it was when they transformed it into F2P. Turbine's F2P model is still the gold standard in my book.
Defiance was supposed to be innovative, going along with the SyFy show, but it just turned out to be another shooter.
I don't think Elder Scrolls will be innovative at all. Just an MMO with little to no UI and still doing things like every other MMO/RPG. Looks interesting, so I will absolutely check it out. But innovative? No.
And I think you got UO wrong a bit. It has as much depth as you want to give it. Plenty if you role-play and organize your own player-run town (with the help of the green community mods), etc. But as a WoW-like MMO, correct, it has no substance. It's all about player housing and making your own way in what you choose to do.
If you really want innovative, look to titles like Minecraft. Or better yet, look to new indie projects designed to be MMORPGs on the horizon like Pathfinder Online or Camelot Unchained.
And Neverwinter isn't really innovative since the Foundry was already in place with STO. Neverwinter is still a cross between an action RPG and an MMO. Mostly instanced, action combat, light on the quickslot bars.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD