This falls under the same basic category of race changes.
You're free to ask for it but such a system shouldn't be added in my opinion. Some choices you should have to live with.
In any case it likely won't be changed before the 20th even if they add such a system in the future.
I don't think you are reading carefully what he said though.
It is a known fact, that the RECOMMENDED primary stats...are not nearly as good as the secondary stats. The game (Cryptic) misled players into believing that the primary stats were the most important...when clearly...they were not.
Cryptic was supposed to be the authority on the matter. They were supposed to be operating with both knowledge and good intent. It turns out however, that they did not have at least 1 of the two (knowledge of best attribute).
What sense does it make to say:
"Well, you listened to who should have known best...and now you have to pay the penalty"?
That doesn't seem like a reasonable response or even philosophy at all...and that is precisely what you are saying here.
Your response would make sense IF it were the case that truly, the the recommended stat was the best for that class. But it simply is not. Players should absolutely NOT follow the recommend stats (at least for some of the classes). The benefits received from them are quantifiably less than that which they would receive from focusing on a secondary attribute.
I don't see why making any decisions made at character creation permanent for all time can possibly be good. In what way does punishing new players for making mistakes in their earliest moments of playing the game (and potentially anyone when the game changes on us) improve the game in any way?
Agreed. The problem with that mentality (that no changes ought to be allowed, such as the mod there and probably many in Cryptic), is that they are either refusing to understand (or for some reason, simply incapable of understanding) that paper format =/= digital mmo format. And NW =/= DnD. NW is inspired by paper DnD...it is not synonymous with it. So to apply the mindset of a paper game to that of a digital MMO, well, it's just an exercise in very poor reasoning IMO as it fails to take into account all the relevant differences that set the 2 apart. Just because 2 entities share a few similarities does not mean that the similarities are relevant for for any and all decisions made about one...to apply to the other.
It's an odd "dogma" IMO. Times, players, genres, format...all change...so to use antiquated, misapplied reasoning to that changed system...is to abandon reason and apply "tradition." And of course...the 'appeal to tradition' is fallacious. It's a mistake in reasoning, and has its consequences.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I admit I rerolled because of this. I originally did the 20/8 thing thinking that was best but apparently it is not. I didn't do it to min/max, rather to have a more well-rounded character in case I want to switch paragons.
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sarezarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited June 2013
A paid option would suffice, either included in the full respec or as a separate option.
Just the fact that the descriptions at character creation are not telling you anything is more than enough reason. The fact that they will be making money from the rerolls is an extra reason. The fact that people will be happy and be playing the game more is another reason.
Believe me, if I have to choose between rerolling a character with full gear, expensive mounts and companions, etc and not playing the game anymore, I will choose the latter. It's not a threat, just a fact. I'm quite OCD when it comes to my characters, and if I feel that they are "not as I want them to be", I just go and play another game.
Just add a paid option: done.
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carrotpakMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is slightly off topic of the OP, but I have to ask.
When I got on, I only saw a respec button for the powers. The feat respec was not highlighted. Did we not get a feat respec with this as well?
Yes. The power respec does the feats. It resets powers, feats, and even ability points that you chose after the initial character creation 'roll'. They just have the button under the powers tab for some reason.
This falls under the same basic category of race changes.
You're free to ask for it but such a system shouldn't be added in my opinion. Some choices you should have to live with.
In any case it likely won't be changed before the 20th even if they add such a system in the future.
I think ordinarily I would agree with you. However with the VAST changes made in the patch I do not. Many of my stat decisions as a CW were made based on a DPS build. I think now that I am an under-powered and under-controllng toon I would likely choose my stats differently. If I chose to stay a CW I would likely max my stats around those that granted survivability and recovery
I believe the changes were so drastic you should even allow for a complete role change with respec.
A paid option would suffice, either included in the full respec or as a separate option.
Just the fact that the descriptions at character creation are not telling you anything is more than enough reason. The fact that they will be making money from the rerolls is an extra reason. The fact that people will be happy and be playing the game more is another reason.
Believe me, if I have to choose between rerolling a character with full gear, expensive mounts and companions, etc and not playing the game anymore, I will choose the latter. It's not a threat, just a fact. I'm quite OCD when it comes to my characters, and if I feel that they are "not as I want them to be", I just go and play another game.
Is there any way (Zen, Astral Diamonds, etc) to change your initial Ability Score point die rolls selections?
No. Despite the original attribute descriptions being flawed and downright misleading or wrong. And no Race Change.
But it's on their radar now, let's just hope they get the glaringly obvious need for these features.
I would like to have this option as well or even better a race change option.
While I am hopeful that Cryptic will change Respecs to allow alteration of initial ability rolls, I am guessing that a racial change would most likely be a separate paid option as in many other games. Still good to have of course.
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fablernMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Here's hoping that this topic gets noticed by the devs and we get to change the initial attribute roll when the next module launches... would hate to abandon a character who survived caturday and fought off Valindra's invasion.
This falls under the same basic category of race changes.
You're free to ask for it but such a system shouldn't be added in my opinion. Some choices you should have to live with.
In any case it likely won't be changed before the 20th even if they add such a system in the future.
why do we have to live with a choice given to us that had info lacking in determining our choices. This is not about race change this about the initial ability score reroll. Part of a characters build is not just decided at the beginning since you dont know how the end game gear is going to be like and what play style that works with such end game sets.
why do we have to live with a choice given to us that had info lacking in determining our choices. This is not about race change this about the initial ability score reroll. Part of a characters build is not just decided at the beginning since you dont know how the end game gear is going to be like and what play style that works with such end game sets.
Actually it is worse than that since the info given is totally misleading. right now for DCs STR and possibly CHR (the so-called 'secondary 'stats) are better than WIS, and for TRs STR and CHR (maybe) are better than DEX......
The very least Cryptic should do to fix this is to allow a starting attribute change in the respec token.
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darkbladessMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 57
edited July 2013
Totally agree they need to add respec to include starting stats,I have a fully geared lvl 60 TR i would love to be able to change my starting ability points.
As far as the moderators (opinion) thats his opinion,and i know it is a (minority) opinion at that.I agree the starting stats they recommend arent allways the stats that each player may want for his or her character.
Also and most importantly the min/max of stats and gear makes a big difference to many players,the ability to completely redo your character from any decision from creation to end game is a huge demand from most other online games.
If PW likes money this seems a great way to get some quick. Seems from reading this thread many many people would love this and it fits in with the lore.
It is very encouraging that we will be getting a free respec on the 20th However I think it would also be really helpful if these launch repecs enabled you to change our starting attribute rolls.
The reason for this is that for several classes the recommended primary stats at character creation are actually worse than the secondary stats, and there is no way to know this until you have played the game a lot and read up a lot on the forums, and certainly not at character creation.
For instance, I made a TR with DEX focus and a Cleric with WIS focus since those were the recommended primary stats, but it turns out that these are for some reason overshadowed by STR and quite possibly CHR for both classes. I am sure that there are many other players in this situation and for whom allowing us to change the initial rolls would be a great help.
+1, I'd like to see it in game too
plus cheaper respec tokens for powers only or talents only (100-150 zen max)
Comments
It is a known fact, that the RECOMMENDED primary stats...are not nearly as good as the secondary stats. The game (Cryptic) misled players into believing that the primary stats were the most important...when clearly...they were not.
Cryptic was supposed to be the authority on the matter. They were supposed to be operating with both knowledge and good intent. It turns out however, that they did not have at least 1 of the two (knowledge of best attribute).
What sense does it make to say:
"Well, you listened to who should have known best...and now you have to pay the penalty"?
That doesn't seem like a reasonable response or even philosophy at all...and that is precisely what you are saying here.
Your response would make sense IF it were the case that truly, the the recommended stat was the best for that class. But it simply is not. Players should absolutely NOT follow the recommend stats (at least for some of the classes). The benefits received from them are quantifiably less than that which they would receive from focusing on a secondary attribute.
It's an odd "dogma" IMO. Times, players, genres, format...all change...so to use antiquated, misapplied reasoning to that changed system...is to abandon reason and apply "tradition." And of course...the 'appeal to tradition' is fallacious. It's a mistake in reasoning, and has its consequences.
His word on the subject has no more weight behind it than any other random forum user. The forum mods are not PWE/Cryptic employees.
Just the fact that the descriptions at character creation are not telling you anything is more than enough reason. The fact that they will be making money from the rerolls is an extra reason. The fact that people will be happy and be playing the game more is another reason.
Believe me, if I have to choose between rerolling a character with full gear, expensive mounts and companions, etc and not playing the game anymore, I will choose the latter. It's not a threat, just a fact. I'm quite OCD when it comes to my characters, and if I feel that they are "not as I want them to be", I just go and play another game.
Just add a paid option: done.
Yes. The power respec does the feats. It resets powers, feats, and even ability points that you chose after the initial character creation 'roll'. They just have the button under the powers tab for some reason.
I think ordinarily I would agree with you. However with the VAST changes made in the patch I do not. Many of my stat decisions as a CW were made based on a DPS build. I think now that I am an under-powered and under-controllng toon I would likely choose my stats differently. If I chose to stay a CW I would likely max my stats around those that granted survivability and recovery
I believe the changes were so drastic you should even allow for a complete role change with respec.
^ Completely 100% how i feel on the matter.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?247612-Race-changes-and-why-they-re-needed
No. Despite the original attribute descriptions being flawed and downright misleading or wrong. And no Race Change.
But it's on their radar now, let's just hope they get the glaringly obvious need for these features.
While I am hopeful that Cryptic will change Respecs to allow alteration of initial ability rolls, I am guessing that a racial change would most likely be a separate paid option as in many other games. Still good to have of course.
why do we have to live with a choice given to us that had info lacking in determining our choices. This is not about race change this about the initial ability score reroll. Part of a characters build is not just decided at the beginning since you dont know how the end game gear is going to be like and what play style that works with such end game sets.
Actually it is worse than that since the info given is totally misleading. right now for DCs STR and possibly CHR (the so-called 'secondary 'stats) are better than WIS, and for TRs STR and CHR (maybe) are better than DEX......
The very least Cryptic should do to fix this is to allow a starting attribute change in the respec token.
As far as the moderators (opinion) thats his opinion,and i know it is a (minority) opinion at that.I agree the starting stats they recommend arent allways the stats that each player may want for his or her character.
Also and most importantly the min/max of stats and gear makes a big difference to many players,the ability to completely redo your character from any decision from creation to end game is a huge demand from most other online games.
If PW likes money this seems a great way to get some quick. Seems from reading this thread many many people would love this and it fits in with the lore.
NO BRAINER!!!
Play: PILLAGER* of the DEAD! By: Hempy NW-DNV3R9B4J
~HEMPY'S CRIT-GEN GUARDIAN FIGHTER BUILD~
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
+1, I'd like to see it in game too
plus cheaper respec tokens for powers only or talents only (100-150 zen max)