People are testing this wrong. 1450 defense is not going to save you. Gaining defense is a tiny portion of this set. This set is about LOWERING the defense of your enemies. Has anyone done specific testing there?
1350 defense gives me 12% DR. Considering double cleric is gone that isn't something you should just sweep under the rug.
Yes the debuff stacks 3 times, yes it reduces defense by 1350. If we consider monsters have 22% DR at 60, and 28% at 65, then this debuff is going to contribute a to a parties overall damage by a hefty bit.
1350 defense gives me 12% DR. Considering double cleric is gone that isn't something you should just sweep under the rug.
Yes the debuff stacks 3 times, yes it reduces defense by 1350. If we consider monsters have 22% DR at 60, and 28% at 65, then this debuff is going to contribute a to a parties overall damage by a hefty bit.
The question is, how do you get to apply 3 debuffs to a boss?
You going to need Entangling, Chill Strike rotations at least.
The question is, how do you get to apply 3 debuffs to a boss?
You going to need Entangling, Chill Strike rotations at least.
Chill strike untabbed applies 2 debuffs, with my recovery the debuff falls off 2 seconds before chill strike is off cooldown again. Neither COI or ROE apply the debuff so keeping a 3 stack of this effect will be unreasonable on some fights where EF is needed to generate AP on large add clusters. (Dracolich for example)
Chill strike untabbed applies 2 debuffs, with my recovery the debuff falls off 2 seconds before chill strike is off cooldown again. Neither COI or ROE apply the debuff so keeping a 3 stack of this effect will be unreasonable on some fights where EF is needed to generate AP on large add clusters. (Dracolich for example)
2 ? Hmm i guess that is not intended. And what you just said was my concern. This means that this set might be just good for PvP.
Looking at the Shadow/Vizier 4 set bonus stacking problems the new pvp gear will be the way for me, if it works right. A lot of cooldown and a bit of dmg, with high recovery and arp, and with the DC nerf that +2k HP can help a lot. My first job is to get the new pvp set, coz for me (controll wizard, not dps) it looks very good.
Looking at the Shadow/Vizier 4 set bonus stacking problems the new pvp gear will be the way for me, if it works right. A lot of cooldown and a bit of dmg, with high recovery and arp, and with the DC nerf that +2k HP can help a lot. My first job is to get the new pvp set, coz for me (controll wizard, not dps) it looks very good.
The new pvp set looks very attractive indeed. Very good stats, max hp, and a pretty snazzy 4 set.
it seems that keeping up the debuff cant be problematic on a single target. unless you use repel within your rotation.
the defense buff too, however in situations where you need the defense buff it will always be there. from entangling force, shield, repel.
It is a real shame however, that icy terrain does not give you the defense buff, nor does ice rays apply the debuff. if such was true, the set would be almost perfect (apart from the deflection lol)
seems like shadow weaver is alot easier to keep up, high vizier is possible to keep up 100% if you use pvp set, and chill strike on tab (gives 3 stacks debuff), pretty much a ray of enfeeble replacement.
ray does hardly any damage increase (my calculations around 10%) compared to before, with no difference with it tabbed, so with high vizier i would deffo put chill strike in tab slot. ray, conduit, ice ray. thats still 45-50% extra damage with this build, (thaum for conduit), all debuffs lasting 6 seconds each (i believe).
(ice ray tooltip still bugged, it does about double the damage it says on it.)
okay i think thats all i got.
Also. steal time grants 3 debuffs but 1 stack of defense.
seems like shadow weaver is alot easier to keep up, high vizier is possible to keep up 100% if you use pvp set, and chill strike on tab (gives 3 stacks debuff), pretty much a ray of enfeeble replacement.
ray does hardly any damage increase (my calculations around 10%) compared to before, with no difference with it tabbed, so with high vizier i would deffo put chill strike in tab slot. ray, conduit, ice ray. thats still 45-50% extra damage with this build, (thaum for conduit), all debuffs lasting 6 seconds each (i believe).
(ice ray tooltip still bugged, it does about double the damage it says on it.)
okay i think thats all i got.
Also. steal time grants 3 debuffs but 1 stack of defense.
Your Chill Strike gives you a 3x buff. It hits more targets. But it debuffs each target that is hit only once.
High Vizier's set- Chill Strike gives 3 stacks of debuff to the main targed, and 1 stack of debuff to secondary targets.
It does not increase your defense at all (does not proceed on yourself like Entangling Force)
0
mahabodhiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited June 2013
Disappointed about the lack of chill strike buff, I put repel in the mastery tab and am really enjoying it. It doesn't do as much damage of course but it applies the full buff, has the same range, and is on a shorter timer. Combined with icy terrain and steal time, any mobs in short range get the full debuff as well. Also, reaper's touch and chaos magic make it worthwhile to get up close and personal!
1350 defense gives me 12% DR. Considering double cleric is gone that isn't something you should just sweep under the rug.
Yes the debuff stacks 3 times, yes it reduces defense by 1350. If we consider monsters have 22% DR at 60, and 28% at 65, then this debuff is going to contribute a to a parties overall damage by a hefty bit.
Didn't see this mentioned.
Shadow weaver set has more than double the defense stats of the vizier. Might have to take that into account.
HV set: 521 Defense
SW set: 1095 Defense
574 deference so three stacks of HV buff would effectively be 776 compared to SW set.
(HV has 450 more recovery)
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
0
snowballoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
The new best set is the T2 PvP set from Gauntlygrym.
/discussion.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
0 crit.
RoE tabbed not affected by recovery, nor by 4 piece bonus.
Plenty of useless power and not-so-useful-above-2k-mark recovery.
You sir should know your place, unless you'r not talking pve here, which still doesn't make any of the other 2 sets really better.
You'r a black hole machine, anything else is a bonus.
This means Entangled on tab, and spam it on cooldown.
Less cooldown, more black holes.
More recovery, more black holes.
Your crit will be high enough with good pet anyway and your party doesn't care about those crits, you'r there for the black holes.
Please cast more black holes.
Thank you.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
0
schulz87Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited June 2013
and now icy terrain doesnt proc high vizier set >< well at least vizier became useful with some research but still I'd go with weaver, since most class loves stacking crit, your debuff will boost all party members attack
You sir should know your place, unless you'r not talking pve here, which still doesn't make any of the other 2 sets really better.
You'r a black hole machine, anything else is a bonus.
This means Entangled on tab, and spam it on cooldown.
Less cooldown, more black holes.
More recovery, more black holes.
Your crit will be high enough with good pet anyway and your party doesn't care about those crits, you'r there for the black holes.
Please cast more black holes.
Thank you.
I'm talking both PvP and PvE. I can cast the same amount of "Black holes" (Arcane Singularity) with low recovery, and if you have EF tabbed insteas of CS or RoE (on bosses), you shouldn't play a CW in the first place.
0.2 seconds cd decrease doesn't worth completely murdering your dps.
0
snowballoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm talking both PvP and PvE. I can cast the same amount of "Black holes" (Arcane Singularity) with low recovery, and if you have EF tabbed insteas of CS or RoE (on bosses), you shouldn't play a CW in the first place.
0.2 seconds cd decrease doesn't worth completely murdering your dps.
If you have CS/RoE on tab over Entangle in any add heavy or multiple target T2 situations, you'r the one that is missing out and shouldn't be giving advice, but do as you please, ignore the best tab ability out there.
Just keep in mind that no T2 party out there could care less where you stick your RoE and all they want to see is the mobs being sucked in with no cooldown, anything else you do no one gives a rats behind about, unless you run with more than one CW.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
If you have CS/RoE on tab over Entangle in any add heavy or multiple target T2 situations, you'r the one that is missing out and shouldn't be giving advice, but do as you please, ignore the best tab ability out there.
Just keep in mind that no T2 party out there could care less where you stick your RoE and all they want to see is the mobs being sucked in with no cooldown, anything else you do no one gives a rats behind about, unless you run with more than one CW.
I'm just fine running t2, CN, whatever else, and in case you can't read RoE is used on bosses, which increases DPS by alot to say the least, CS simply helps to kill adds faster, and unless you have a GWF + a really sh1tty cleric in your group there is no reason to use EF in PvE at all.
In fact, you're the one who should know your place. And if you need to save your cleric in some add heavy situations - shield+arcane singularity works just fine, much better then 1 second entangle.
0
snowballoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm just fine running t2, CN, whatever else, and in case you can't read RoE is used on bosses, which increases DPS by alot to say the least, CS simply helps to kill adds faster, and unless you have a GWF + a really sh1tty cleric in your group there is no reason to use EF in PvE at all.
In fact, you're the one who should know your place. And if you need to save your cleric in some add heavy situations - shield+arcane singularity works just fine, much better then 1 second entangle.
If only you knew what you'r missing out on.
Sadly enough your reply tells me enough about how bad of a player you are to bother to explain any further.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
You sir should know your place, unless you'r not talking pve here, which still doesn't make any of the other 2 sets really better.
You'r a black hole machine, anything else is a bonus.
This means Entangled on tab, and spam it on cooldown.
Less cooldown, more black holes.
More recovery, more black holes.
Your crit will be high enough with good pet anyway and your party doesn't care about those crits, you'r there for the black holes.
Please cast more black holes.
Thank you.
Honestly, your advice is really wrong. If you can knock stuff off cliffs and keep up multiple mitigation debuffs on a boss you are going to be significantly more useful to the party. The fact that you recommend recovery as a stat is even more ridiculous - the difference between 2.5k and 4.5k recovery is something like 3% actual cooldown reduction?
The fact that people can get through content as black hole machines is incidental and dependent on the last boss in CN being poorly designed. If you expect this kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> attitude to be sufficient in Gauntlgrym (hint: timed PvE) and the subsequent PvE dungeons (hint: most likely no ledges on last boss) then you are in for a surprise when you realize all of your gearing is bad. This is all completely aside from the fact PvE in this game is a joke and black hole builds aren't very useful in PvP.
On topic, High Vizier will be better if you actually need to kill adds at some point in future content, otherwise Shadow Weaver. I've seen people stating that you can apply 3 stacks of High Vizier to a target with Chill Strike, is this really the case? If it is then it might be viable to use the set even when you don't need to kill adds (as Chill Strike would literally be applying a stronger mitigation debuff than Ray). If you can't easily maintain 3 stacks on a boss then there is of course no point.
and now icy terrain doesnt proc high vizier set >< well at least vizier became useful with some research but still I'd go with weaver, since most class loves stacking crit, your debuff will boost all party members attack
it does proc, but only the debuff. at 1 stack each
Comments
1350 defense gives me 12% DR. Considering double cleric is gone that isn't something you should just sweep under the rug.
Yes the debuff stacks 3 times, yes it reduces defense by 1350. If we consider monsters have 22% DR at 60, and 28% at 65, then this debuff is going to contribute a to a parties overall damage by a hefty bit.
The question is, how do you get to apply 3 debuffs to a boss?
You going to need Entangling, Chill Strike rotations at least.
Chill strike untabbed applies 2 debuffs, with my recovery the debuff falls off 2 seconds before chill strike is off cooldown again. Neither COI or ROE apply the debuff so keeping a 3 stack of this effect will be unreasonable on some fights where EF is needed to generate AP on large add clusters. (Dracolich for example)
2 ? Hmm i guess that is not intended. And what you just said was my concern. This means that this set might be just good for PvP.
Arguably still outdoes weaver. Will need more playtesting before I come to a conclusion
The new pvp set looks very attractive indeed. Very good stats, max hp, and a pretty snazzy 4 set.
it seems that keeping up the debuff cant be problematic on a single target. unless you use repel within your rotation.
the defense buff too, however in situations where you need the defense buff it will always be there. from entangling force, shield, repel.
It is a real shame however, that icy terrain does not give you the defense buff, nor does ice rays apply the debuff. if such was true, the set would be almost perfect (apart from the deflection lol)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
EDIT: If certain control powers debuff but not buff, then it's a bug based on the item description that will hopefully be fixed.
ray does hardly any damage increase (my calculations around 10%) compared to before, with no difference with it tabbed, so with high vizier i would deffo put chill strike in tab slot. ray, conduit, ice ray. thats still 45-50% extra damage with this build, (thaum for conduit), all debuffs lasting 6 seconds each (i believe).
(ice ray tooltip still bugged, it does about double the damage it says on it.)
okay i think thats all i got.
Also. steal time grants 3 debuffs but 1 stack of defense.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Your Chill Strike gives you a 3x buff. It hits more targets. But it debuffs each target that is hit only once.
High Vizier's set- Chill Strike gives 3 stacks of debuff to the main targed, and 1 stack of debuff to secondary targets.
It does not increase your defense at all (does not proceed on yourself like Entangling Force)
Didn't see this mentioned.
Shadow weaver set has more than double the defense stats of the vizier. Might have to take that into account.
HV set: 521 Defense
SW set: 1095 Defense
574 deference so three stacks of HV buff would effectively be 776 compared to SW set.
(HV has 450 more recovery)
/discussion.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
0 crit.
RoE tabbed not affected by recovery, nor by 4 piece bonus.
Plenty of useless power and not-so-useful-above-2k-mark recovery.
You sir should know your place, unless you'r not talking pve here, which still doesn't make any of the other 2 sets really better.
You'r a black hole machine, anything else is a bonus.
This means Entangled on tab, and spam it on cooldown.
Less cooldown, more black holes.
More recovery, more black holes.
Your crit will be high enough with good pet anyway and your party doesn't care about those crits, you'r there for the black holes.
Please cast more black holes.
Thank you.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
I'm talking both PvP and PvE. I can cast the same amount of "Black holes" (Arcane Singularity) with low recovery, and if you have EF tabbed insteas of CS or RoE (on bosses), you shouldn't play a CW in the first place.
0.2 seconds cd decrease doesn't worth completely murdering your dps.
If you have CS/RoE on tab over Entangle in any add heavy or multiple target T2 situations, you'r the one that is missing out and shouldn't be giving advice, but do as you please, ignore the best tab ability out there.
Just keep in mind that no T2 party out there could care less where you stick your RoE and all they want to see is the mobs being sucked in with no cooldown, anything else you do no one gives a rats behind about, unless you run with more than one CW.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
I'm just fine running t2, CN, whatever else, and in case you can't read RoE is used on bosses, which increases DPS by alot to say the least, CS simply helps to kill adds faster, and unless you have a GWF + a really sh1tty cleric in your group there is no reason to use EF in PvE at all.
In fact, you're the one who should know your place. And if you need to save your cleric in some add heavy situations - shield+arcane singularity works just fine, much better then 1 second entangle.
If only you knew what you'r missing out on.
Sadly enough your reply tells me enough about how bad of a player you are to bother to explain any further.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
Honestly, your advice is really wrong. If you can knock stuff off cliffs and keep up multiple mitigation debuffs on a boss you are going to be significantly more useful to the party. The fact that you recommend recovery as a stat is even more ridiculous - the difference between 2.5k and 4.5k recovery is something like 3% actual cooldown reduction?
The fact that people can get through content as black hole machines is incidental and dependent on the last boss in CN being poorly designed. If you expect this kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> attitude to be sufficient in Gauntlgrym (hint: timed PvE) and the subsequent PvE dungeons (hint: most likely no ledges on last boss) then you are in for a surprise when you realize all of your gearing is bad. This is all completely aside from the fact PvE in this game is a joke and black hole builds aren't very useful in PvP.
On topic, High Vizier will be better if you actually need to kill adds at some point in future content, otherwise Shadow Weaver. I've seen people stating that you can apply 3 stacks of High Vizier to a target with Chill Strike, is this really the case? If it is then it might be viable to use the set even when you don't need to kill adds (as Chill Strike would literally be applying a stronger mitigation debuff than Ray). If you can't easily maintain 3 stacks on a boss then there is of course no point.
it does proc, but only the debuff. at 1 stack each
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".