-1 Re-roll doesn't take long, its not like gear took you 6 month's to get and its not wasted time, you gained valuable experience and now you get to play the mission's over.
On this issue I agree that for each and every class, the attributes page at character creation should be changed before the upcoming "launch" to reflect what the values really do in the game. I remade a couple characters because I thought rolling 20 on the main stat would be the bomb. That bomb blew up in my face and I rerolled. It's absurd to have to make a character and get in the game to see how attributes actually affect a class.
you said it yourself, the char creation ability definitions are vague and more like dictionary descriptions rather than actual bonuses. Under such circumstances, no one can make informed decisions about what their abilities should be. It's more like the game is trying to mislead people into going to a single ability build/choosing abilities that are inferior to another when it comes to a specific build that they're trying to focus on.
Ok, so the creation screen descriptions aren't useful. Fine. The very *instant* you zone into the tutorial, you can see the actual effects. Any time invested in that character past that point is the responsibility of the player.
So no, character screen descriptions are not a valid reason to request this feature.
Ok, so the creation screen descriptions aren't useful. Fine. The very *instant* you zone into the tutorial, you can see the actual effects. Any time invested in that character past that point is the responsibility of the player.
So no, character screen descriptions are not a valid reason to request this feature.
Is this argument really meant to be taken seriously? I very much doubt that you can at level 1 tell exactly how the recommended choices at character creation are going to (seriously negatively) affect your character at level 60. If you can do this then I am in awe of you - but do please feel refer us to where you posted the perfect builds for all classes on day 1 of Open Beta,
Otherwise I am afraid no-one will take you seriously......
Alright great. How about fixing the character selection to not lie to you and tell you the wrong thing is your primary stat?
Pointless to go into a debate with Ambisinisterr - who should probably create a separate private forum account instead of making the company he represents here look even worse with his own personal, partial and often archaic and fixed views.
I still hope the real Devs read the forums as they've stated and maybe countless players can enjoy the options of Race Changes and Attribute Rerolls, to further enhance the longevity of the game - lord knows enough solid reasons have been brought forth in several threads.
I'm just slightly confused because if he truly believes that we should have to stick to our choices despite sweeping balance changes, then why isn't he against respeccing powers and feats? How is that any different from ability scores?
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I'm just slightly confused because if he truly believes that we should have to stick to our choices despite sweeping balance changes, then why isn't he against respeccing powers and feats? How is that any different from ability scores?
And that's the way it should be , if someone wants to reroll stats - feel free to reroll a new character it's a free game after all
That's not the way it is. They already let you re-roll all your stats except the ones at the very start. When the only info you have about what the stats is wrong.
Personally I am totally against repeccing all the time. Reducing its cost. Or allowing stuff like race changes. But I still support giving players the ability to fix mistakes without making a new character.
And that's the way it should be , if someone wants to reroll stats - feel free to reroll a new character it's a free game after all
Except they are giving us the free respec. Shouldn't they, according to you, just say "screw you!" to the players and tell us to reroll if we want to change our feets and powers. Why is that any different from ability score?
If you're going to be silly, at least be consistent.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
And that's the way it should be , if someone wants to reroll stats - feel free to reroll a new character it's a free game after all
That is a completely different point and really has nothing to do with this argument. WTS a clue.
(Feel free to read the several threads full of reasons if this confuses you.)
This falls under the same basic category of race changes.
You're free to ask for it but such a system shouldn't be added in my opinion. Some choices you should have to live with.
In any case it likely won't be changed before the 20th even if they add such a system in the future.
Until they properly define what ability score do upon character creation (which they currently do not), initial ability score re-rolls are a necessity, especially with the sweeping class changes being introduced today.
Have you not yet noticed the magnificence, the impartial and reasonable nature, of our old Ambi?
I have to agree moderators are impartial in every forum I have used, I have done so myself and the problem lies with the fact that people see mods as part of the main team and players feel they can sway decisions.
Perhaps use a pseudonym to post, this would perhaps help with the negative posts against moderators, yes you have an opinion and nobody should ever deny anyone doing so, but it would perhaps best be suited as another handle
Will there be a possibility to change startstats after this so called balance patch? As i logged in i only got a normal respec token. complete useless if cant cahnge my starting stats after this patch.
I would really appreciate a developer to answer. So i do not waste more time on my charcter...
Will there be a possibility to change startstats after this so called balance patch? As i logged in i only got a normal respec token. complete useless if cant cahnge my starting stats after this patch.
I would really appreciate a developer to answer. So i do not waste more time on my charcter...
I would imagine a complete and total respec will be something available for purchase one day, but if you think your character is completely boned based on his starting stats it's probably time to re-roll. However, I've yet to see the stat breakdown that completely ruins a player except in min/max settings - hell, even a starting 12 WIS on my Cleric probably would have been doable.
Actually given that WIS is overshadowed by STR and possibly CHR for Clerics, then a 12 starting WIS would (currently) be ideal.
I run 22/20/18 right now, so yeah I could easily make a 12 Wis work. Was just saying though that I think you pretty much have to go out of your way to wreck your stats to have them so bad the char is toast.
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najjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited June 2013
Please explain the logic of "some choices you just need to live with" outside of real life choices? That's one of the most appealing things about games, you aren't stuck with your choices, you can always go back and try something different. Would it be right to start a FPS game with having players choose their Primary and Secondary weapons, which have vague and inaccurate descriptions, and then not let them ever change out of those two weapons?
Secondly, if they are going to allow re-specialization of any kind why allow players to change everything with the exception of one area, an area where they were most likely knowingly deceptive about? I doubt this deception was malicious, as already stated it was most likely done to give the game a pnp feel.
I run 22/20/18 right now, so yeah I could easily make a 12 Wis work. Was just saying though that I think you pretty much have to go out of your way to wreck your stats to have them so bad the char is toast.
It is true that it is hard to make an unplayable character, but considering how much people are prepared to grind to get an extra 0.1% on their character, being behind by around 5% just because the 'primary' attribute choice at character creation is so much worse choice then the secondary ones is rather painful....
CAN'T BELIEVE PPL TALKING ABOUT THIS... and some say a choice to live with... and some stupid things like that
You also think its right if you vote for a party ... next year they absolutely change their program into killing ppl ... you have to stick with it only the partyprogram was good before?
changing classes so radical and dont offering a respec is just fail.....
This falls under the same basic category of race changes.
You're free to ask for it but such a system shouldn't be added in my opinion. Some choices you should have to live with.
In any case it likely won't be changed before the 20th even if they add such a system in the future.
the developers seem pretty overwhelmed but keep pushing out new stuff before old stuff is finished. this game is dead before new content goes live! CU
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sutekhoneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 30Arc User
edited June 2013
It is ridiculous that some people claim 'just live with it' and are so set against changing the initial stats when respecs are currently available to change everything after that initial stat choice. Do you think there should be no respecs at all? Even when the "rulebook" changes with a new patch. Would you be running a tabletop game and penalize players because a new edition of rules came out and you made them all convert to it with the original character rolls, even if many of the reason for selecting those stats no longer applied?
"It's a free game just reroll." It is only free for players who don't support Perfect World with Zen purchases. Those of us that do will lose money on a character. Those of us that actually buy Zen to keep the staff employed would prefer a way to change our initial stats, since they were misrepresented to us. Only those who have no monetary contribution will say it is easy to just reroll. Which player do you think Perfect World has a greater interest in satisfying and keeping around? Probably the players that actually spend money on the game.
Also, many claim is it a 'purity' issue and it breaks with the virtues of D&D. Again, this is an MMO and not the pen and paper game. In real D&D you have a human GM who can nudge rolls and encounters based on roleplaying. Even if the GM helped you make your character and told you misleading information (put all your points into Wisdom!) that GM can make necessary changes while playing to keep game balanced. It is OK to have a broken character as long as you roleplay well. Not so for an MMO. The computer runs this game. Roleplaying does not keep your group alive in epic dungeons when your heals are subpar and you realize STR and CHA would have been a better attribute over a focused WIS. A moderator isn't going to sweep in and let your group live against the Mad Dragon because you made a quirky balanced character and roleplayed it well. This is not tabletop DnD - but a video game that uses its mythology. Remember that!
Besides, in a magical world like D&D, the characters/heroes can change themselves with wishes, reincarnation, divine intervention, etc....
This is slightly off topic of the OP, but I have to ask.
When I got on, I only saw a respec button for the powers. The feat respec was not highlighted. Did we not get a feat respec with this as well?
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shelendilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I would also like the ability to change my initial roll, as rerolling my character entirely would lose much progress in gearing, companions, and professions. I incorrectly assumed the description of wisdom as a primary stat for cleric was correct, when it turns out the base recovery (cha) and crit (str) are far more important. An argument can be made that even int is more important than wisdom.
Comments
/NO-race/ability token's at any price
Ok, so the creation screen descriptions aren't useful. Fine. The very *instant* you zone into the tutorial, you can see the actual effects. Any time invested in that character past that point is the responsibility of the player.
So no, character screen descriptions are not a valid reason to request this feature.
Is this argument really meant to be taken seriously? I very much doubt that you can at level 1 tell exactly how the recommended choices at character creation are going to (seriously negatively) affect your character at level 60. If you can do this then I am in awe of you - but do please feel refer us to where you posted the perfect builds for all classes on day 1 of Open Beta,
Otherwise I am afraid no-one will take you seriously......
Alright great. How about fixing the character selection to not lie to you and tell you the wrong thing is your primary stat?
Pointless to go into a debate with Ambisinisterr - who should probably create a separate private forum account instead of making the company he represents here look even worse with his own personal, partial and often archaic and fixed views.
I still hope the real Devs read the forums as they've stated and maybe countless players can enjoy the options of Race Changes and Attribute Rerolls, to further enhance the longevity of the game - lord knows enough solid reasons have been brought forth in several threads.
And that's the way it should be , if someone wants to reroll stats - feel free to reroll a new character it's a free game after all
It isn't........
That's not the way it is. They already let you re-roll all your stats except the ones at the very start. When the only info you have about what the stats is wrong.
Personally I am totally against repeccing all the time. Reducing its cost. Or allowing stuff like race changes. But I still support giving players the ability to fix mistakes without making a new character.
Except they are giving us the free respec. Shouldn't they, according to you, just say "screw you!" to the players and tell us to reroll if we want to change our feets and powers. Why is that any different from ability score?
If you're going to be silly, at least be consistent.
If you look at the quoted post in my sig you will note that he is probably the most consistent poster here......
That is a completely different point and really has nothing to do with this argument. WTS a clue.
(Feel free to read the several threads full of reasons if this confuses you.)
Until they properly define what ability score do upon character creation (which they currently do not), initial ability score re-rolls are a necessity, especially with the sweeping class changes being introduced today.
I have to agree moderators are impartial in every forum I have used, I have done so myself and the problem lies with the fact that people see mods as part of the main team and players feel they can sway decisions.
Perhaps use a pseudonym to post, this would perhaps help with the negative posts against moderators, yes you have an opinion and nobody should ever deny anyone doing so, but it would perhaps best be suited as another handle
Sounds like a plan :cool:
Will there be a possibility to change startstats after this so called balance patch? As i logged in i only got a normal respec token. complete useless if cant cahnge my starting stats after this patch.
I would really appreciate a developer to answer. So i do not waste more time on my charcter...
I would imagine a complete and total respec will be something available for purchase one day, but if you think your character is completely boned based on his starting stats it's probably time to re-roll. However, I've yet to see the stat breakdown that completely ruins a player except in min/max settings - hell, even a starting 12 WIS on my Cleric probably would have been doable.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?342741-Launch-Respec-Allow-us-to-change-intial-Attribute-rolls-please-%29
Actually given that WIS is overshadowed by STR and possibly CHR for Clerics, then a 12 starting WIS would (currently) be ideal.
I run 22/20/18 right now, so yeah I could easily make a 12 Wis work. Was just saying though that I think you pretty much have to go out of your way to wreck your stats to have them so bad the char is toast.
Secondly, if they are going to allow re-specialization of any kind why allow players to change everything with the exception of one area, an area where they were most likely knowingly deceptive about? I doubt this deception was malicious, as already stated it was most likely done to give the game a pnp feel.
It is true that it is hard to make an unplayable character, but considering how much people are prepared to grind to get an extra 0.1% on their character, being behind by around 5% just because the 'primary' attribute choice at character creation is so much worse choice then the secondary ones is rather painful....
You also think its right if you vote for a party ... next year they absolutely change their program into killing ppl ... you have to stick with it only the partyprogram was good before?
changing classes so radical and dont offering a respec is just fail.....
the developers seem pretty overwhelmed but keep pushing out new stuff before old stuff is finished. this game is dead before new content goes live! CU
"It's a free game just reroll." It is only free for players who don't support Perfect World with Zen purchases. Those of us that do will lose money on a character. Those of us that actually buy Zen to keep the staff employed would prefer a way to change our initial stats, since they were misrepresented to us. Only those who have no monetary contribution will say it is easy to just reroll. Which player do you think Perfect World has a greater interest in satisfying and keeping around? Probably the players that actually spend money on the game.
Also, many claim is it a 'purity' issue and it breaks with the virtues of D&D. Again, this is an MMO and not the pen and paper game. In real D&D you have a human GM who can nudge rolls and encounters based on roleplaying. Even if the GM helped you make your character and told you misleading information (put all your points into Wisdom!) that GM can make necessary changes while playing to keep game balanced. It is OK to have a broken character as long as you roleplay well. Not so for an MMO. The computer runs this game. Roleplaying does not keep your group alive in epic dungeons when your heals are subpar and you realize STR and CHA would have been a better attribute over a focused WIS. A moderator isn't going to sweep in and let your group live against the Mad Dragon because you made a quirky balanced character and roleplayed it well. This is not tabletop DnD - but a video game that uses its mythology. Remember that!
Besides, in a magical world like D&D, the characters/heroes can change themselves with wishes, reincarnation, divine intervention, etc....
When I got on, I only saw a respec button for the powers. The feat respec was not highlighted. Did we not get a feat respec with this as well?