Seen a lot of exploiting in a lot of games but this has to be the first game I have ever seen exploiters trying to claim that those who don't exploit are somehow in the wrong lol.
QFT
Also, I am not any kind of white knight or anything, I just want to enjoy the game, not speedrun through everything by doing some silly jumps out of map or through walls to get more rewards.
mrz1mmersMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
In D&D RP terms.
Would a D&D character attempt to cleave a monster in two with a single swing of his powerful blade? Sure, in-fact I think it's a requirement in the adventurers job application.
Would a D&D character use powerful spells to fling hoards of monsters to their screaming deaths off a cliff? Absolutely!
Would a D&D character try to position his skinny/flimsy armored spellcasting party members in a location to try to minimize damage to them so that they can keep healing, and raining death on the monsters out in the battlefield? Sure, what group in their right mind wouldn't try to protect their casters?
Would a D&D character jump off a cliff or through a wall, wait till the appropriate moment and then type "/killme" before hitting the ground? WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?!??!
You're absolutely right. Everything in the game is virtual, and it's value is completely determined by how much time and effort is put into gaining it.
For me, the value is entirely determined by how much fun I'm having.
For me, the value is entirely determined by how much fun I'm having.
Yes, and I agree with you. In fact like I suspect you put less importance to virtual 'productivity' and more in what activity is fun to engage in, I do to. Personally I like a healthy balance between the two.
However, virtual value of something in a game has everything to do with the reward system it employs. Mmorpg games have a tendency to put a whole lot of emphasis on this, to the point some players will engage in activities they don't really enjoy anyway but to 'progress'.
Not a big fan, myself, and sure you can ignore the reward system and it won't spoil your fun as you weren't deriving any from it to begin with. But it's still an integral part of the game many do enjoy and there is no reason it shouldn't be fixed.
Exactly. Also, only D bags bring up religion on a videogame forum lol.
Dude. Expecting people to have integrity has nothing to do with religion. I know the education system is HAMSTER poor but really.
On the other hand, expecting todays pampered little snots to have integrity is like wishing the sky were yellow. Isn't going to happen.
So we need game mechanics to keep people in line.
If your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you.
I don't think the issue is really a Cryptic or a cheaters one. When has clearing the trash in ANY MMO been fun? Never? Then why oh why do developers insist on the making the players do unfun things?
You want to get people to clear the trash? Have them drop worthwhile stuff! Simple as that. People skip the trash because there's no good reason not to. "Because you shouldn't" doesn't cut it.
Skipping trash alone isn't a big problem. Skipping most of a dungeon and 3 bosses is. No game should allow this.
If the banhammer came down harder on exploiters the people who want to play the game legit would no longer have to deal with exploiters in game, as well as listen to them justify exploiting on the forums.
You want to get people to clear the trash? Have them drop worthwhile stuff! Simple as that. People skip the trash because there's no good reason not to. "Because you shouldn't" doesn't cut it.
Exactly, the occasional instance appropriate non-set gear of reasonable quality. Also, rare crafting mats and the odd higher level enchant would help, too.
I will enjoy the game just fine with you not playing it thankyou, I will enjoy the game with you playing it, couldn't care less either way, but if you play with me, you'll play right.
Exactly how I feel. Well said. If you're not playing for the thrill of combat, the satisfaction of doing a solid job in your role, the joy of final victory, but are just trying to accumulate large amounts of digital wealth, then you will never enjoy playing with me.
I love kicking all these white knights from dungeon's, that refuse to use any short cuts. this is an MMO, it's about min-maxing time played, Any decent mmo/rpg player will tell you that they would rather do 5 runs of a dungeon over 1-2. It's not our fault that the closed beta tester's were useless and couldn't find any of this stuff (or that cryptic were too lazy to fix it).
So you just admitted to using exploits on the forum.
GG
What have we got? 1.5 GB patch with future content.
And fixes for some of your complaints. And more fixes in the works based on that code branch (5/29) instead of the current code branch (4/16 with patches).
- I don't want to jump through walls
- I don't want to type /killme
- I don't want to run through mobs to die at certain point or mob
- I don't want to suicide bosses
- I don't want to exploit broken mechanics even for my economical advantage
Yet, EVERYONE now does it. Getting into a group of legit players to do a dungeon together is close to impossible.
Last CN boss dropping BiS stuff can be farmed 2 times per hour and this haven't been fixed yet!
Numbers:
500 +/- guildmates
three weeks ago: 100 +/- online same time
since last week: 10-15 +/- online same time (most of them being fresh lvl 60s haven't experienced broken end-game yet, older players are gone)
What have we got? 1.5 GB patch with future content. ARE YOU FKIN KIDDING ME?
(I'm not into creating ranting/whining threads but you Cryptic guys had it coming. Either you don't care or you are just unable to fix your own game. You need a month to fix an invisible hole in the wall? I have never seen any content so broken as this game)
w/ new content it would make these items people are farming w/ exploits useless..
FearITsSelf#1 GF From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
0
daowaceMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Numbers:
500 +/- guildmates
three weeks ago: 100 +/- online same time
since last week: 10-15 +/- online same time (most of them being fresh lvl 60s haven't experienced broken end-game yet, older players are gone)
What have we got? 1.5 GB patch with future content. ARE YOU FKIN KIDDING ME?
(I'm not into creating ranting/whining threads but you Cryptic guys had it coming. Either you don't care or you are just unable to fix your own game. You need a month to fix an invisible hole in the wall? I have never seen any content so broken as this game)
This, all of this.
I've seen the exact same thing in my guild, albeit smaller since ours is smaller. 460 total members; used to have 60 on at any given time; now it's rare to even see more than 10 on at once. Everyone's quitting.
I've been saying for the last week or two that the patch with the fixes NEEDS TO COME OUT NOW and not be delayed until the content update. Cryptic is acting like they've never made an MMORPG before; YOU DO NOT DELAY CRITICAL FIXES, EVER.
I am glad I am not yet 60 (well, not so much, as I don't get to experience 'easy' stuff before it all changes, also lol guardian set level 38) so I still have at least something to play for, but.. ugh. The amount of bots I'm seeing now, the complete lack of the fixes for another 8 days and the amount of people who've disappeared in my guild.. there's less and less reason to play every passing day. Maybe 8 days is enough to keep me from quitting entirely, but boy it sure is pushing it..
I love all the asshats in here calling someone with any morals a 'White Knight', like it's some kind of insult. Hmm, prefer to do good things for others, not be a spoiled little punk that thinks the world owes him something, and earn everything I have? Sure. Call me a white knight. Everyday of the **** week.
Better than being a product of the ignorant criminal mentality...
the thing is people dont want to spend 1-3 hours on a dungeon :l
Step 1. install game
Step 2. hit play on launcher
Step 3. takes more then 30 min to reach lvl 60?
Step 4. uninstal game since it is not enjoyable.
Step 5. convince other people the game isent enjoyable.
Step 6. Go outside and watch the clouds flow.
Since when did gaming become a job? and not a waste of time, preferebly u pick a waste of time u enjoy, else i feel sorry for u ?
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Just because you can cheat or exploit doesn't mean you should.
I mean seriously, just because you are the banker and you think Monopoly is taking too long, doesn't mean you should skim money because no one is looking and you are in a hurry.
Please tell me people are not that stupid and that much of an idiot that they can't tell how the game was MEANT to be played.
Wrong analogy.
Imagine there's a line of people standing on a long, winding path to a vending machine which sells I dunno, snacks, or carbonated drinks everyone seems to want. And there's another ten machines, giving out the same, behind a 20-centimeter fence and a lawn.
No "don't step on grass" signs are to be seen, no policemen around. Basically, nothing (except for a firm belief that climbing over a fence and walking on the lawn is bad) prohibits you from forgetting about the line (which moves painfully slowly) and just grabbing what you need.
Yet, all you feel is that *your* world view is somehow better, and you start whining out loud, that those that choose to forego the "stand in line" routine are bad, bad people for not willing to throw their time into the junk bin.
So the only thing of value in the equation is the posibility of desired loot at the end? And everything else, including playing the game is just semantics - then it sounds like his work -vs- robbery analogy is absolutely correct under these conditions.
If actually playing the game is not fun, and people turn it into work simply to get the desired loot at the end, time to find something else to do.
Wrong analogy.
Imagine there's a line of people standing on a long, winding path to a vending machine which sells I dunno, snacks, or carbonated drinks everyone seems to want. And there's another ten machines, giving out the same, behind a 20-centimeter fence and a lawn.
No "don't step on grass" signs are to be seen, no policemen around. Basically, nothing (except for a firm belief that climbing over a fence and walking on the lawn is bad) prohibits you from forgetting about the line (which moves painfully slowly) and just grabbing what you need.
Yet, all you feel is that *your* world view is somehow better, and you start whining out loud, that those that choose to forego the "stand in line" routine are bad, bad people for not willing to throw their time into the junk bin.
Additions and clarifications to make your analogy more on target.
The, "vending machines," beyond the fence and lawn are not actually vending machines. They are an overturned truck owned by same the individual who owns the actual vending machines. The loss of this product to theft will harm the business.
The business owner does not charge for the content of the vending machines. Those carbonated drinks you mention are actually free ! He pays to produce them but instead of charging for them relies entirely on the opportunity provided by having people in his line to sell other services. Bypassing the line deprives the business owner of his chosen means of generating revenue from his product.
That fence and lawn you mention are known to be prohibited territory. No sign is posted because it is common knowledge within the community where the lawn exists that trespassing is prohibited, that the lawn is private property, that the existence of a fence symbolizes that fact. This point is further demonstrated by the fact that the very people crossing the lawn to steal from the overturned truck readily acknowledge that they are doing wrong but claim that its the business owner's fault for not having a tall enough fence, or perhaps for not being able to avoid getting into the accident in the first place.
So the only thing of value in the equation is the posibility of desired loot at the end? And everything else, including playing the game is just semantics - then it sounds like his work -vs- robbery analogy is absolutely correct under these conditions.
If actually playing the game is not fun, and people turn it into work simply to get the desired loot at the end, time to find something else to do.
People, denied what they may consider to be appropriate reward, may start to tunnel vision on that delve chest. I'm still enjoying myself, but I can't be the only person who has done 4 delves in a row before with nothing but terrible soulbound rings and worthless t1 pieces.
Time vs. reward is a touchy subject. I can't be the only person amused by the fact that most working people could buy any drop in game after 1-3 hours of work. Through the company that makes the game no less. That same drop could evade you for 30 mind numbing hours of the same content.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I dont believe so, because everyone who doesnt have fun playing the game, and is thinking of it as a means simply to attain the desired loot would be gone in a matter of weeks, and those of us who actually enjoy playing the game would be able to do so.
I can respect that view point without sharing it. I do continue to wonder though, why does NW dungeon trash have to be so completely unrewarding for the average player?
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
People, denied what they may consider to be appropriate reward, may start to tunnel vision on that delve chest. I'm still enjoying myself, but I can't be the only person who has done 4 delves in a row before with nothing but terrible soulbound rings and worthless t1 pieces.
Time vs. reward is a touchy subject. I can't be the only person amused by the fact that most working people could buy any drop in game after 1-3 hours of work. Through the company that makes the game no less. That same drop could evade you for 30 mind numbing hours of the same content.
That repetition, or grind, is part of the issue. Im fine with them making the game less grindy at the end, but in a fashion that still requires playing the game, rather than circumventing it through exploiting.
I can respect that view point without sharing it. I do continue to wonder though, why does NW dungeon trash have to be so completely unrewarding for the average player?
Yeah, one thing EQ1 did right in its early days was have valuable loot drop off trash mobs. I remember sitting in OS killing froglocks until the RBG dropped, which was one of the best haste items in the game in its era. NW could do something similar, where either good loot could have a small chance to drop from trash.
They already have a hand in system they can expand on, where bosses drop seals which can be traded for items. If this was expanded on to include some decent loot, and those seals dropped from trash, everyone who is concerned about obtaining loot would be rewarded for actually playing the game.
Comments
QFT
Also, I am not any kind of white knight or anything, I just want to enjoy the game, not speedrun through everything by doing some silly jumps out of map or through walls to get more rewards.
Would a D&D character attempt to cleave a monster in two with a single swing of his powerful blade? Sure, in-fact I think it's a requirement in the adventurers job application.
Would a D&D character use powerful spells to fling hoards of monsters to their screaming deaths off a cliff? Absolutely!
Would a D&D character try to position his skinny/flimsy armored spellcasting party members in a location to try to minimize damage to them so that they can keep healing, and raining death on the monsters out in the battlefield? Sure, what group in their right mind wouldn't try to protect their casters?
Would a D&D character jump off a cliff or through a wall, wait till the appropriate moment and then type "/killme" before hitting the ground? WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?!??!
For me, the value is entirely determined by how much fun I'm having.
Yes, and I agree with you. In fact like I suspect you put less importance to virtual 'productivity' and more in what activity is fun to engage in, I do to. Personally I like a healthy balance between the two.
However, virtual value of something in a game has everything to do with the reward system it employs. Mmorpg games have a tendency to put a whole lot of emphasis on this, to the point some players will engage in activities they don't really enjoy anyway but to 'progress'.
Not a big fan, myself, and sure you can ignore the reward system and it won't spoil your fun as you weren't deriving any from it to begin with. But it's still an integral part of the game many do enjoy and there is no reason it shouldn't be fixed.
Dude. Expecting people to have integrity has nothing to do with religion. I know the education system is HAMSTER poor but really.
On the other hand, expecting todays pampered little snots to have integrity is like wishing the sky were yellow. Isn't going to happen.
So we need game mechanics to keep people in line.
Skipping trash alone isn't a big problem. Skipping most of a dungeon and 3 bosses is. No game should allow this.
Exactly, the occasional instance appropriate non-set gear of reasonable quality. Also, rare crafting mats and the odd higher level enchant would help, too.
Exactly how I feel. Well said. If you're not playing for the thrill of combat, the satisfaction of doing a solid job in your role, the joy of final victory, but are just trying to accumulate large amounts of digital wealth, then you will never enjoy playing with me.
Glad you did. Your point should be obvious, but is somehow lost on some folks. Kind of sad.
GG
And fixes for some of your complaints. And more fixes in the works based on that code branch (5/29) instead of the current code branch (4/16 with patches).
w/ new content it would make these items people are farming w/ exploits useless..
From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
I've seen the exact same thing in my guild, albeit smaller since ours is smaller. 460 total members; used to have 60 on at any given time; now it's rare to even see more than 10 on at once. Everyone's quitting.
I've been saying for the last week or two that the patch with the fixes NEEDS TO COME OUT NOW and not be delayed until the content update. Cryptic is acting like they've never made an MMORPG before; YOU DO NOT DELAY CRITICAL FIXES, EVER.
I am glad I am not yet 60 (well, not so much, as I don't get to experience 'easy' stuff before it all changes, also lol guardian set level 38) so I still have at least something to play for, but.. ugh. The amount of bots I'm seeing now, the complete lack of the fixes for another 8 days and the amount of people who've disappeared in my guild.. there's less and less reason to play every passing day. Maybe 8 days is enough to keep me from quitting entirely, but boy it sure is pushing it..
PC specs: http://forum.daow.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4#p99
Better than being a product of the ignorant criminal mentality...
Quoted for truth.
Since when did the name white knight in a ROLE PLAYING GAME become an insult?
Honor before glorry.
tl;dr Lazy, entitled people want everything handed to them now, with zero effort expended.
Step 1. install game
Step 2. hit play on launcher
Step 3. takes more then 30 min to reach lvl 60?
Step 4. uninstal game since it is not enjoyable.
Step 5. convince other people the game isent enjoyable.
Step 6. Go outside and watch the clouds flow.
Since when did gaming become a job? and not a waste of time, preferebly u pick a waste of time u enjoy, else i feel sorry for u
I mean seriously, just because you are the banker and you think Monopoly is taking too long, doesn't mean you should skim money because no one is looking and you are in a hurry.
Please tell me people are not that stupid and that much of an idiot that they can't tell how the game was MEANT to be played.
So the only thing of value in the equation is the posibility of desired loot at the end? And everything else, including playing the game is just semantics - then it sounds like his work -vs- robbery analogy is absolutely correct under these conditions.
If actually playing the game is not fun, and people turn it into work simply to get the desired loot at the end, time to find something else to do.
Additions and clarifications to make your analogy more on target.
The, "vending machines," beyond the fence and lawn are not actually vending machines. They are an overturned truck owned by same the individual who owns the actual vending machines. The loss of this product to theft will harm the business.
The business owner does not charge for the content of the vending machines. Those carbonated drinks you mention are actually free ! He pays to produce them but instead of charging for them relies entirely on the opportunity provided by having people in his line to sell other services. Bypassing the line deprives the business owner of his chosen means of generating revenue from his product.
That fence and lawn you mention are known to be prohibited territory. No sign is posted because it is common knowledge within the community where the lawn exists that trespassing is prohibited, that the lawn is private property, that the existence of a fence symbolizes that fact. This point is further demonstrated by the fact that the very people crossing the lawn to steal from the overturned truck readily acknowledge that they are doing wrong but claim that its the business owner's fault for not having a tall enough fence, or perhaps for not being able to avoid getting into the accident in the first place.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
People, denied what they may consider to be appropriate reward, may start to tunnel vision on that delve chest. I'm still enjoying myself, but I can't be the only person who has done 4 delves in a row before with nothing but terrible soulbound rings and worthless t1 pieces.
Time vs. reward is a touchy subject. I can't be the only person amused by the fact that most working people could buy any drop in game after 1-3 hours of work. Through the company that makes the game no less. That same drop could evade you for 30 mind numbing hours of the same content.
I can respect that view point without sharing it. I do continue to wonder though, why does NW dungeon trash have to be so completely unrewarding for the average player?
That repetition, or grind, is part of the issue. Im fine with them making the game less grindy at the end, but in a fashion that still requires playing the game, rather than circumventing it through exploiting.
Now it's just bleh, and it's all there own fault.
(i dont care im still gonna grind it legit and feel awsome when im done
Yeah, one thing EQ1 did right in its early days was have valuable loot drop off trash mobs. I remember sitting in OS killing froglocks until the RBG dropped, which was one of the best haste items in the game in its era. NW could do something similar, where either good loot could have a small chance to drop from trash.
They already have a hand in system they can expand on, where bosses drop seals which can be traded for items. If this was expanded on to include some decent loot, and those seals dropped from trash, everyone who is concerned about obtaining loot would be rewarded for actually playing the game.