Now you see, that just makes you look ignorant. Control is the keyword, but then how come CWs can be an optimal dps choice aswell? And how come they deal massive damage in PvP while still retaining most of their CC?
I would expect a class labeled as a controller to deal OK damage while doing wonderful CC, I dont except the class to have wonderful CC and the ability to take their enemy from 100-0% during that CC.
Just compare Icy Dagger with Shocking Execution. On has no prerequirement to be good but the other gets better the lower the health of the enemy it is. Still the one without a prerequirement sits on the CC class... hmm. Shouldnt it be the otherway around?
Right now the CW is a bit over the top. The other classes are mostly fine or in need of a buff, but CW could use a slight nerf. We'll just have to wait and see if they get balanced in the patch on the 20th.
They got canned hard and the gwf got a buff across the board.
Another case of melee tank classes whining about ranged casters.
They got canned hard and the gwf got a buff across the board.
Another case of melee tank classes whining about ranged casters.
Yup, cw is the last class that needs nerfing, there are seriously gf's running around with twice my health doing twice my damage, and i'm the one they smack in the face with the nerf stick. it's sad.
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loptopMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Would you cry if you were against 3 TRs, when they can 1 shot you?
Anyway l2p your class role and your class. Also look a little at CWs before you post ignorant facts like "They can do this 4 or 5 times. They evade nearly everything while getting away from all melee fighters.".
Good GF can stunlock CW to death.
Pro tip: Dont run solo in group of 3 CWs!!!!!
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danxbxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Lunging Strike -> Dodge 1
Threatening rush to get closer for Bull Charge. Bull charge -> Dodge 2.
Threatening rush to get closer for Frontline Surge. Frontline surge -> Dodge 3.
The fourth dodge will be ready very soon. My encounters not. Before lunging strike is ready again, the fourth charge will be available.
Now the CWs got control skills (well, i think you didnt expect this X_X). Even if they cant oneshot me, they get enough time so that they are able to dodge again.
This way 4-5 dodges of a CW during a 1on1 situation are NORMAL.
most CC? well thats the main problem.
3 Attacks Lunging Strike, Bull Charge and Frontline Surge. These three Attacks are not able to oneshot a CW in case that the CW and the GF are equipped similar.
Believe whatever you want to believe.
Why are you chasing the CW? Make him chase you and have the TR on your team take him in out in two hits.
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danxbxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Clerics are free kills for any competent player, well except other DC players. Knock the cleric out of AS and they die way too easily. A TR or CW can currently kill a cleric inside of a AS pretty easily as well. The only time clerics are annoying are when they AS stack and that's getting nerfed...although the same rules still apply. Knock a DC out of AS and they die. CC them and they can't lay AS down, dead.
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The fact that you think CW's get 4-5 dodges is enough to lead me to believe you know very little about PvP or are just trolling.
Let me put it into perspective, as to why CW's get 3 dodges out right as well as why we need them.
GF are able to block most CC. If you're a good GF, you'll recognize the animations for these common skills and/or be prepared to block them. On top of that, once close, if a CW fails to dodge just one of a GF's cc, they're dead (assuming the GF is good, and believe me, I've fought a couple terror GF's.).
TR also have an ability that negates CC apparently or at the very least dodges them, on top of their 2 shifts.
DC's also get 2 shifts and are naturally tankier due mitigation's and heals.
As for GWF, I'm pretty sure they are able to run (roughly) the same distance as a CW while also being able to keep you prone. On top of that, they also have a skill that allows them to ignore CC.
3 of 5 classes have abilities that let them ignore CC completely, while 1 has sustain through heals and mitigation. CW gets no mitigation outside of shield (which is not very good in PvP imo or at the very least, extremely situational), no CC ignoring skills and, afaik, has the lowest base defense and health of all 5 classes. A CW's CC durations are actually rather low, when compared to the prone/silences of GF/GWF and TR's, with the only 2 exceptions being a single target used Ice Ray (which roots for somewhere around 2-3 seconds) and a 5 arcane stacked/tabbed Entangling Force.
But I'm willing to believe you're just a troll or just bad at PvP, since you seem to think CW's get 4-5 dodges.
we GF's also have Villains Menace which gives dmg and anti CC
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jpnoleMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm not a level 60 yet, but at level 40, CW's are really, really squishy in PvP. With my GF I can block their ranged attacks until I'm in range to rush them then stun them so they can't dodge and at that point they might as well be pressing Shift+2. However, as I said, I haven't experienced Level 60 PvP gameplay so you may take my experiences with a jar of salt.
On the other hand, CW in PvE, **** if some of the dungeons aren't horrible if you don't get a decent one in the party.
Bah... when I encounter a GF spamming their block skill I just back off until a melee teammate engages... then I burn the GF's HP into the ground. Works every time.
they get 3 dodges.... you open up with rush he dodges, if you are moving forward right after you rush because you KNOW they will dodge you will be in range to rush again he dodges, repeat one last time for the last dodge. Rush again now ur in melee range he has no dodges...front line, bull rush, lunging= dead.
^This. I'd say, as a wizard, i hate GFs in 1v1 combat the most. Harder than rest 4 classes. U can dodge things, u can CC - and all of it works good, but if u fighting against decent GF and fail dodge just once (lag spike or smth) or out of stamina, you f**ked.
Bah... when I encounter a GF spamming their block skill I just back off until a melee teammate engages... then I burn the GF's HP into the ground. Works every time.
^This. I'd say, as a wizard, i hate GFs in 1v1 combat the most. Harder than rest 4 classes. U can dodge things, u can CC - and all of it works good, but if u fighting against decent GF and fail dodge just once (lag spike or smth) or out of stamina, you f**ked.
That's how it should work. The PvP isn't a 1v1 game, it's a 5v5 team battle. If a GF is taking a point and you want to force him off you need to coordinate an attack. I can't block in two directions, so a stealthed rogue distracting me from behind gives a CW a opportunity to take me down. That's what makes PvP fun imo.
i love PvP, but im very often playing vs. 3 or more Control Wizards in the other team. No class is able get close to them except the TR. GF and GWF are killed before they are close enough to the CWs. And: if i try to charge towards them, they'll port away. They can do this 4 or 5 times. They evade nearly everything while getting away from all melee fighters.
what the f***?!
5 CWs=Godlike!
5 TRs?
5 Clerics?
5 GF or GWF? pff LOL
Its annoying and stupid. Every time i see more than 2 or 3 CWs in the other team, we loose instantly and very hard if they got more CWs than my team.
The TR is very fair in comparison to the CW in PvP.
Not even 60 + worthless criticism = too dumb, didnt read
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
CWs have been nerfed which sucks considering there are many builds from the other classes that can 2 shot you. Force a CW to use all 3 dodges and get close to them = dead CW. The dmg on test shard due to RoE nerf seems pretty low. Don't get me wrong I'm saying the dmg is low compared to the many builds that 3 shot in PvP. CW dmg will still be good but right now with how easy it is to be 3 shot, if you can't 3 shot in PvP then you gonna die a lot.
Don't worry after the patch once CWs realize that most of the other classes are capable of 2 or 3 shotting them and they can't anymore you will not see too many CWs. You should be happy all these nerfed CWs will probably roll the perma invis rogue build...you gonna love teams of 3 or 4 perma invis rogues...its gonna be a blast. lol
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bellringer01Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Don't worry after the patch once CWs realize that most of the other classes are capable of 2 or 3 shotting them and they can't anymore you will not see too many CWs. You should be happy all these nerfed CWs will probably roll the perma invis rogue build...you gonna love teams of 3 or 4 perma invis rogues...its gonna be a blast. lol
CW's will just be easy kills for the other classes (for folks who know how to play anyway) in pvp after the nerf goes live, I'm already working on my trolling rogue just in retalliation so the ability to stealth in pvp is removed ;P
Cheers
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How to kill a CW as GF? Only if he doesnt know that you are coming...
You could try playing intelligently. All of the examples you gave were perfectly telegraphed and the exact right moments the CW should dodge and attack. Attacking a decent CW? How about you charge them, then feint with a normal attack. He'll probably dodge again. Oh hey, now who has the advantage?
Once you knock them down they basically have no way out of it and you can kill them in 3 hits. GFs hit absurdly hard and there's no quick way out of a knockdown.
In other words: l2pvp before you cry about other classes.
Tsk. yeh ryt we use stealth then atak the cw and teleport away then what???? TR also have a hard time on getting close to them in fact a good GWF always kills a CW. TR needs to be a range rogue and well geared with good enchantments to kill a CW oh plsss try to reach lvl 60 with TR and lets see if u have a chance to kill a CW without being a range rogue build. Anyways CW will get nerf pretty big so everything will change now in pvp.
Tsk. yeh ryt we use stealth then atak the cw and teleport away then what???? TR also have a hard time on getting close to them in fact a good GWF always kills a CW. TR needs to be a range rogue and well geared with good enchantments to kill a CW oh plsss try to reach lvl 60 with TR and lets see if u have a chance to kill a CW without being a range rogue build. Anyways CW will get nerf pretty big so everything will change now in pvp.
i dont know how you play TR, but seriously man TR has lots of skills that can get easily close to CW.
Hah, TR have so good strikes, and they do LOT OF DMG. Everyday i see couple rogues and they kill me 1-3hits. Allmost every strikes does 8-25k dmg, and sometimes they onehit me.. Im lvl 60 +12k CW. And there is couple fun things to. TR have so op stealth, immune and allmost all rogue have soulforge stone
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited October 2013
This thread is from way back in Open Beta. So many things have changed that I doubt there's much within this thread which is still relevant.
Thread closed for necromancy.
As always remember if a thread has not been posted on in over thirty days old it's usually best to let it rest in peace. If you would like to continue the discussion more often than not it's better to simply create a new thread.
Comments
They got canned hard and the gwf got a buff across the board.
Another case of melee tank classes whining about ranged casters.
Yup, cw is the last class that needs nerfing, there are seriously gf's running around with twice my health doing twice my damage, and i'm the one they smack in the face with the nerf stick. it's sad.
Anyway l2p your class role and your class. Also look a little at CWs before you post ignorant facts like "They can do this 4 or 5 times. They evade nearly everything while getting away from all melee fighters.".
Good GF can stunlock CW to death.
Pro tip: Dont run solo in group of 3 CWs!!!!!
Why are you chasing the CW? Make him chase you and have the TR on your team take him in out in two hits.
This is it. No amount of code will make people better PvP'ers
All other things are only whine.
You could not be more wrong, a 3 cleric party has few chances against a non cleric party, they would lack the dps
Clerics are free kills for any competent player, well except other DC players. Knock the cleric out of AS and they die way too easily. A TR or CW can currently kill a cleric inside of a AS pretty easily as well. The only time clerics are annoying are when they AS stack and that's getting nerfed...although the same rules still apply. Knock a DC out of AS and they die. CC them and they can't lay AS down, dead.
A well played GF is about the only class I don't feel my CW has a good chance against right now.
we GF's also have Villains Menace which gives dmg and anti CC
Bah... when I encounter a GF spamming their block skill I just back off until a melee teammate engages... then I burn the GF's HP into the ground. Works every time.
^This. I'd say, as a wizard, i hate GFs in 1v1 combat the most. Harder than rest 4 classes. U can dodge things, u can CC - and all of it works good, but if u fighting against decent GF and fail dodge just once (lag spike or smth) or out of stamina, you f**ked.
My videos
That's how it should work. The PvP isn't a 1v1 game, it's a 5v5 team battle. If a GF is taking a point and you want to force him off you need to coordinate an attack. I can't block in two directions, so a stealthed rogue distracting me from behind gives a CW a opportunity to take me down. That's what makes PvP fun imo.
Not even 60 + worthless criticism = too dumb, didnt read
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Don't worry after the patch once CWs realize that most of the other classes are capable of 2 or 3 shotting them and they can't anymore you will not see too many CWs. You should be happy all these nerfed CWs will probably roll the perma invis rogue build...you gonna love teams of 3 or 4 perma invis rogues...its gonna be a blast. lol
CW's will just be easy kills for the other classes (for folks who know how to play anyway) in pvp after the nerf goes live, I'm already working on my trolling rogue just in retalliation so the ability to stealth in pvp is removed ;P
Cheers
You could try playing intelligently. All of the examples you gave were perfectly telegraphed and the exact right moments the CW should dodge and attack. Attacking a decent CW? How about you charge them, then feint with a normal attack. He'll probably dodge again. Oh hey, now who has the advantage?
Once you knock them down they basically have no way out of it and you can kill them in 3 hits. GFs hit absurdly hard and there's no quick way out of a knockdown.
In other words: l2pvp before you cry about other classes.
i dont know how you play TR, but seriously man TR has lots of skills that can get easily close to CW.
Thread closed for necromancy.
As always remember if a thread has not been posted on in over thirty days old it's usually best to let it rest in peace. If you would like to continue the discussion more often than not it's better to simply create a new thread.