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Guardian Fighter and Mail Armor (Appearance)
rueven
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
TLDR - Give me some kind of ability to make my character look as if they are wearing mail/scale/etc.
I look around town and see town guards wearing mail and using sword and shield. When creating my character, I wanted to use a sword and shield because I wanted to be a foot soldiery kinda guy. Sword and shield combat is very standard stuff. However, I don't want to walk around looking like a refrigerator. I have seen most of the plate armor in this game. Most of it makes my character look fat or stupid. Certain races fair better than others. Dwarves look decent in plate for instance. I don't want to be a Dwarf, though.
My character is human, however. The only time I said, "Hey, my character looks cool" was when first waking from that shipwreck in the beginning of the game. That lasted until I opened the first box along the shore and got my first breast plate. Upon dawning that first breast plate, I was like, "oh, that's kinda silly looking. Oh well. I'm level one, what should I expect?". Every armor piece since has left me thinking, "Man, if only I looked like that guy.".
When my character breathes, his chest plate and shoulders bend to accommodate him breathing?
Really? His diaphragm is strong enough to bend steel armor? It's a game, so I can excuse it. Some people wont even notice this nor care. Either way, I don't like the way the stuff looks. Can I make it look like my character is wearing mail?
There are ample examples of characters that wear mail armor but use sword and shield...
There are no restrictions in D&D that says, "Fighter's must wear plate".
I realize some arguments against my suggestion might be that...
Argument
Rebuttal(s)
GF would then compete with other classes for drops.
PvP would be affected because characters would not be identifiable by their armor.
Ways that this could be implemented...
Thanks
I look around town and see town guards wearing mail and using sword and shield. When creating my character, I wanted to use a sword and shield because I wanted to be a foot soldiery kinda guy. Sword and shield combat is very standard stuff. However, I don't want to walk around looking like a refrigerator. I have seen most of the plate armor in this game. Most of it makes my character look fat or stupid. Certain races fair better than others. Dwarves look decent in plate for instance. I don't want to be a Dwarf, though.
My character is human, however. The only time I said, "Hey, my character looks cool" was when first waking from that shipwreck in the beginning of the game. That lasted until I opened the first box along the shore and got my first breast plate. Upon dawning that first breast plate, I was like, "oh, that's kinda silly looking. Oh well. I'm level one, what should I expect?". Every armor piece since has left me thinking, "Man, if only I looked like that guy.".
When my character breathes, his chest plate and shoulders bend to accommodate him breathing?
Really? His diaphragm is strong enough to bend steel armor? It's a game, so I can excuse it. Some people wont even notice this nor care. Either way, I don't like the way the stuff looks. Can I make it look like my character is wearing mail?
There are ample examples of characters that wear mail armor but use sword and shield...
- Neverwinter Guardsman Hireling (Who looks awesome btw)
- Linkletter Guy from Plague Tower Quest line
- etc
There are no restrictions in D&D that says, "Fighter's must wear plate".
I realize some arguments against my suggestion might be that...
Argument
Rebuttal(s)
GF would then compete with other classes for drops.
- Restrict "need" option for gear you can't directly use for stats. This way, I can still make my guy look less stupid, but you still get dibs on upgrades.
PvP would be affected because characters would not be identifiable by their armor.
- They would still be identifiable by the weapons load out and abilities used.
- Make it so that other players still perceive you as wearing whatever you'r actually wearing.
Ways that this could be implemented...
- The "Change Appearance" button. (my prefered method)
- Put some appearance items in the zen store that look like adventurer gear. I can run around in the open world wearing my town cloths. What I don't like about this solution is that the selection would be limited. How many outfits would you put in the zen store? Using the in-game models for other armor types gives more selection.
- A combination of the first two methods above, a special zen store item that must be purchased (kinda like dye) to allow the ability to "change the appearance" of your gear to another model that would otherwise be restricted. ie: My GF buys one of these items. He then clicks on his plate armor and hits change appearance. He places this purchased item into a new slot, akin to the dye/armor slot that already exists. Then he places chain armor into the normal dye/armor slot. Finally, he hits the apply button.
- When more "Paths" are added one might use mail, but still use sword and shield? Perhaps this roll is more focused on damage or something. This method is less desirable because people who had invested time into their GF and acquired heavy plate gear would have to regrind gear. Also, the kinda of stats put on mail might have to be changed. This would also create the problem of fighters competing against clerics for armor drops.
Thanks
Post edited by rueven on
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HOWEVER this is limited to only gear you class can use. That restriction should be lifted so you can swap a GF Plate armor for a GWF scale armor. If that restriction got lifted I would totally put the firegiant crown on my GF as I hate all the helmtes in this game
Indeed. This was listed as my ideal implementation proposal. ie: Just drop restriction.
There are, however, restrictions in Neverwinter that say Guardian Fighters must wear plate.
We aren't playing a simulation of D&D here. We are playing an MMO with D&D flavouring. Also, when you were making the character, they showed you a mockup of what the character could look like eventually. It was clear the GF was depicted in some fantasy representation of plate armour. So, you got what you created. I doubt they will ever implement what you desire.
As an aside, you never stated your opinion on whether or not you preferred x or y. Instead, you pointed out the current state of the game, and that you thought the devs would or would not act based upon this thread. I would kindly request that you please state you opinion as to whether you like or dislike the idea of having free reign to make your avatar look as please.
Examples of this kind of avatar customization can be shown in Champions Online and Star Trek Online. In CO, one can make their character look however they want. There are some differences in this game that I realize do not apply to a super hero game. For instance, half-orcs don't generally have invulnerability. So in this game, front-line warriors would prefer metal armor covering their bodies (Chain mail, Scale mail, Half Plate, Full Plate, Mixed, etc).
The scale mail and chain mail in the game is not actually purely chain or scale in appearance. The chain armor is actually leather/cloth with chain pulled over it. How much chain can be pulled over leather armor before it becomes chain armor? Most of those armors are actually what would be called, Piece Mail. Piece mail is like wearing mostly chain, but then using plates or metal over you shins, fore-arm, Shoulders, etc. Armor design evolved over a long period of time. Most armors are actually piece mail. The shirt and pants for Guardians is chain mail for instance. The plates are put on top. The quantity and quality of those plates are what make it classified as plate. These differing classes or armor are on a continuum or gradient. Generally speaking, in D&D, these ideas of (chain/heavy/scale/leather/whatever) were created to give guidelines for balance purposes. This is the only reason wizards can not wear anything better than cloth. This is why the are dexterity penalties for wearing certain heavy armors. This is why a swashbuckling character can compete with a plate armored character.
So while you may feel like the concepts of "Armor Types" are concrete, you are wrong. In video games, they are nothing more than classifications of armor that are used to split loot between differing character types in the game. They are also classifications that entail certain statistics. For example, given the items are the same level, what the game calls plate armor will always have high defense and AC than what the game calls chain....regardless of how it looks.
The other example I gave, STO, rather than force the federation to have a uniform that everyone must use, they instead allowed each individual the ability to customize their own uniform. Explaining this in-game was done via some in-game federation policy changes that honestly made no sense. Why would an organization forgo uniforms which allow them to be easily identifiable to other factions in space? Because some players would want to use the TNG uniforms while others would prefer the DS9 uniforms. On other words, the game would be more fun, and people would like their characters more.
Summary
Your statement that the class was designed that way is not an argument that I can accept in a thread where I am trying to make the point that this design decision is a design flaw.
Your arguments are circular. You're basically saying, "It's stupid to say the design is stupid because the ...well....that's how the game was designed"
Please give your opinions. Do you like the idea of making you character wear what you want or no? What restrictions would you put on any system like this? Can wizards look as if they were wearing plate? Would thieves be able to look as if wearing chain? Would a Guardian be able to run around as if wearing cloth?
There could be restrictions placed on it, but they would need to be ironed out.
Thanks
My opinion is that it isn't going to happen, and thus my preference is irrelevant.
This isn't Champions Online or Star Trek online. For CO in particular, extreme appearance customization is needed, due to the genre. For Star Trek, I can only assume it is because every one of the newer television series had to have new uniforms despite being relatively contemporary with each other (which made no sense whatsoever really).
Yes, I know all this. I'm not the one that decided to force Guardian Fighters to look as they do, that was the choice of the developers. However, I recognize that do look as they do due to that design decision.
The idea of non-uniform uniforms was stupid in those three next-genish Star Trek series, and just as stupid in the online game. How anyone thought non-uniform uniforms made sense for an organization such as Star Fleet is depicted to be is beyond me.
Acceptable to you or not, that's the way it is. The guardian fighter is designed to appear as a heavily armoured character. That was the choice of the developers. It's not a design flaw despite your characterization of it being so. It is a design choice that doesn't match your preferences. That your thread hasn't been flooded with posts in support of your idea, it seems your preference isn't one shared by a high number of forum posters.
Have you seen this armor?
The person in the above picture needs boots!
I pulled this from another thread, http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?303401-GF-Unique-Weapon-Apperences-LIST.
Can you explain why this armor exists in the game for guardian fighters? This armor looks to be nothing more than hide armor with tidbits of adornment. By your logic, this armor should not exist.
As to this point, I would almost agree. The only thing that prevents me from accepting this is that there are factors that may make threads like this fall under the radar...
This reduces down to...
You statement : "Well, that's how the game was designed."
My response : "Duh, that's why I've created this thread."
Here's the rub, I don't know which reason(s) are coming into play. In fact, I can think of no reason why ARE posting here. You haven't actually stated an opinion. Instead, you are stating that your opinion is irrelevant. It's not!
This is a thread where a design decision is being critiqued. This is a thread where a request is being made to change that design decision. I am already aware of the current state of the game. That is why the thread exists.
What I am asking is for people to comment on whether they agree, or disagree. If they wish to explain their reasoning as to why, then that is fine. However, if that reasoning is that the current state of the game is 'X', then I do not feel that adds anything to the conversation. 'X' is already known. Instead, they should say, "I like the current state of the game. I do not want it changed."
Games change. Design decisions can be reversed. Pressure and opinions of a customer base can alter decisions and future design decisions. Money speaks.
Thanks
I always thought a better implementation of that would have been a setting that forced your client to dress all federation personnel in the same themed uniform. For instance, a dropdown in the settings menu that made every federation player/npc wear a variation of that family of uniform. So if you chose "TNG Uniform", all federation personnel would wear the "TNG" uniforms. The coloring and rank pertinent changes would change based on their class/rank etc.
The civilian outfits wouldn't be affected by this because the slot could be immune to this restriction. That way, the uniform scenario would make sense, but everyone would see the uniforms they wanted to see.
This implementation has other problems with it, namely, people want their character perceived as they create them (uniform and all). Quite frankly, I couldn't care less about that, but people are free to have their own opinions.
As to your critique of the uniforms changing in the series, i disagree. The changes are explainable. I was in the navy. Our standard issue uniforms changed twice while I was active in the military. The policy was, that you could wear the old bell-bottomed jeans with the utility uniform until the jeans were fell out of the regulation standards that had applied to the jeans. Therefore, you could walk around the ship and see some people wearing the jeans, while others wore the new slacks.
Just before I was getting out (7 years later), they had just changed our camo attire. It went from green marine style pattern (with slightly diff hat), to a digital pattern that was blue themed. Once again, the standard was that as long as the green uniform was in good working order, you could wear it.
This is how they phase out uniforms. Gradual updates with periods of time where both are allowed is the norm.
Fighter.
Fighter.
Fighter.
Fighter.
Funnily, as a counterpart to the existing hide armor for Guardian Fighters, there are plate boots for Rogues. If I remember correctly, those are called Hellfire Boots.
is a very common question. how and why did the devs not think of this?
here's my idea(very similar to how costume potions work in RaiderZ):
open up additional slots in the fashion tab(AFAIK only upper, lower and face are available) things you need to add are belts, bracers ,shirts , pants, neck(capes) and etc.(TL;DR make costume tab have as many slots as general tab)
THEN rework the Transmutation idea so that the equipment that gets transmuted BECOMES a costume.
having this feature would open up so many customization options. thus satisfying everyone.
EDIT: forgot to say that i too, am supporting this thread
The picture withe Greywolf Breastplate.
Has anyone found boots that match that as well?