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Stalwart Bulwark is heinously overpowered
tarnisrad
Member Posts: 12 Arc User
A Guardian Fighter with focus on constitution and specced Conqueror can break 20k power from the set alone. How is this a thing? Get on the ball Cryptic.
Daint's the name. Pizza's my game.
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Post edited by tarnisrad on
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Then you have to factor in that you need to be going Conquerer and have a full guard to double your power, and have been hit several times in quick succession to proc the armor multiple times, and continue to be hit over and over again to keep the power at that level without using your guard. How is that overpowered?
LMAO
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
On what planet do you live on where a 600+ DPS increase from a tanking set bonus is considered balanced? What other sets come even close to that kind of power? This is a set bonus with a 6000 power budget tacked onto it minimum. Get your head out of the clouds.
GF has a a Conquerer path, aka DPS. They're not just tanks. And when I say we can get 600 dps per hit, its only when the conditions are exactly right, i.e. the GF has been hit 5 times in a very short period of time and has full guard. And even then, that buff is going to last all of a couple of seconds unless the GF keeps getting in which in that case he's probably dead or has no guard left. In PvP that's not likely to happen. In PvE it barely makes a difference against mobs that have hundreds of thousands of health.
Stop looking at big numbers and knee-jerking "NERF" and instead follow through with the mechanics of how the set works.
Not sure what to think of it, as conqueror seems to be in a good spot. If reckless attacked had to be changed, I'd turn it into a damage modifier instead of a power modifier, but that's just me.
It's not like reckless attacker applies to the stalwart set bonus anyways.
Wrath - 60 Great Weapon Fighter - Mindflayer
Envy's Guardian Fighter DPS Conqueror Guide
Youtube Channel
http://www.twitch.tv/supjeremiah
Using timeless hero with a conqueror setup suddenly makes sense.
Timeless hero ?
The CRT you get from the Timeless set is around 10%+ Bonus. That's a flat 7.5%+ Damage Increase.
I currently have Stalwarts and Tene enchants on my offensive slots... I have around 11k-12k power at full proc on the set... I dont have great crit, I dont have great power but have my tene enchants...
If you have great crit and stalwarts youll have lower power. If you have 20k power... you will have NO tene enchants and NO crit chance cause you spent all your offensive slots on power...
ALL this meaning... You will STILL hit like a wet noodle because its either crits or tene that is what gives you damage...
Also, Timeless is very very comparable in damage output with its HUGE crit %. Even then, youll still how lower power than stalwarts but its called a trade off..
Currently Stalwarts/Timeless are BiS although I have seen SOME other good setups... Is this strong? Yes, is it overpowered? Ehh hard to really say... Also in PVE power means NOTHING without armor pen, if you have 20k power youll have NO armor pen...
Also, 20k power is probably with pet stats too, which doesnt play in PVP
Conqureror master is a power boost, so is stalwarts, by itself pwoer is eh, but you can get it to the point it's respectable.
The real power comes in when you realize if a GF optimizes for it, he can sit at almost 65-95% damage increase constantly, which multiplies the benefit from that power.
10% powerful attack, 15% combat superiority, 15% cruel cut style (cleave only) 20% villians menace, 15% Trample the Fallen (For anything short of a boss, a good CW will have SOME sort of CC up at all times) 15% wrathful warrior (provided the cleric is using sacred flame, you'll have temporary hp often.
That's 65% for everything with a good CW and and decent AP gain. 80% on cleave (your main source of damage); 80-95% in spikes when you can get temp HP.
and that'snot even counting high AOE situations where you can stack villains menace..
GF's have high damage because they outright have MORE sources of flat damage increase (GWF's have destroyer, which is 12% in destroyer (which is bugged and actually 29%, +10% from weapon master. 39% total; Wizards have reapers touch for 30% in melee range, and 9%, 6%, and 15% for "Aoe" spells which, due to improper tagging is all of 4 abilities, two of which see little use. so 30% in melee range,60% inmelee range with one of the few AOE's. -- Rogues have Lurker's assault, flat 60%, and that's it.) and overall bigger bonuses per,this, stacking with their HUGE power and powerful set bonuses, with moderately high base damage nmbers is what makes GF's hit like trucks.
That's actually bull****. It's only gonna give 7k-8k power based on health. Which is gonna end up being 12.5k-15k power depending on gear. Even then, it's the highest dps gain possible in pve (except for some bosses), anyone telling you otherwise is an idiot.
Anyone that posts opinion without mathematically facts should be ignored.
I would love to see the math, but from what I have seen from Rokuthy stalwarts > Timeless for PVE damage (slightly) where timeless shines is PVP (crit) while also being almost if not on par with stalwarts PVE.
Basically stalwarts > timeless PVE (slightly) but Timeless > Stalwarts in PVP..
By the way you could start arguing that GFs can get insanely high crit with timeless too I mean 1350 crit additional?! If you ignore tene enchants, you could EASILY push 3500+ crit which is an INSANE crit % add a greater vorpal on there and you can 1 shot people...
18-25k CRTS.
Once you start adding gear to a GF, you just make it easier to 1-shot.
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Also you are correct about Vorpal as that would carry more weight for a high CRT GF than a GPF.
7500 power > 7500 crit.
Therefore
7500 power > 1350 crit.
I've done the math, *****.
Your numbers are exagerated, but the reasoning is correct.
Stalwart doesn't increase dps by the amount you want it to increase doesn't mean that Stalwart is worse than Timeless. Timeless is gonna increase dps by an even lower amount.
Also, Stalwart buff is closer to 300-400 dps per hit and the difference between Timeless and Stalwart is 150-250.
Lastly, no one is denying that Stalwart is suboptimal for PvP. Funnily enough Shadow Wolf, Armor of Insanity, Icefall Gauntlets and Piercing Valiant boots > Timeless for PvP.
Your right, as soon as I hit 60 I went and got PVP gear and scimmy basic crit/power/pen epics... I was able (under the right conditions) and with knights challenge to start dominating. The catch is that the better people you play the harder that set up will be. If you get a cleric to throw shield down, there goes your big numbers. If your using knights challenge, you have two encounters that DO and can and often deal massive damage, but thats only 2 versus 3 encounters... If you blow them trying for the cheese and dont get a crit, or they dodge (which good CWs will time well often) or If you knights challenge a rogue but then get CCd guess what a GOOD rogue will do... Execute you... It goes BOTH ways and I have been the giver and recipient of that.
Not to say it doesnt work but good gear doesnt make it even better, it makes it happen in more possible situations... For instance a soulforged enchant has saved my bacon on several occasions and allowed me to 2v1 SOMETIMES. Better gear will give those overpowered moments more often.
Currently I have 4 greater tene and 2 regular ones, I feel like my greater plague fire + tenes MELT through armor and with just a few swings (like 2) ill have some1 at 50-60% hp (even with no crits) If I lunge or rush, they are gone... With stalwarts if they attack me first, I get 11k+ power and literally will 1 shot 33k+ someone assuming I knights challenge right and dont have interference.
And for the 7500 power versus 1350 crit, you have to consider the CONDITIONS you get those...
1v1 - stalwarts will win. 1vmultiple - stalwarts. However there is a TON of times that I cant build up my stal set bonus in pVP because i wont get attacked for being a GF... This is where I rely on my tene enchants to do the damage. Timeless YOU get to apply the buff, Stalwarts someone has to hit you and it takes more procs to get the full benefit...
All in All, I agree (which is why I use is) Stalwarts is the better armor, however, I am speculating for PVP with stacking crit severity, I wonder if the crit would be better..
Think about standard conditions, Stalwarts must get attacked first to be OP. If I am rushing in and attacked first against two competent players, I will die. If I can rush in and attack 1 fast enough with timeless there is a HIGH chance they will die... If some stupid cleric or CW thinks they can "dink" away at my HP, then they almost immediately die as a consequence of stacking my stalwarts bonus.
However again, I get CCd by a CW, a rogue can 100 to 0 really quickly (even without tene procs).
I wasn't saying Stalwart was worse than Timeless. My point was to refute the OP's statement. I agree with you that in PvE Stalwart is probably better, but still nowhere near "heinously overpowered" (what the OP said).
I've been trying to test another build running both 2-piece armor bonus sets on the test server that give 400 and 450 ArPen and then crit/arpen jewelry while still using Tenbrous in all slots. Both that and the Shadow Wolf setup you mentioned will put out more DPS but at the cost of lower defensive stats. Timeless has great stats and makes for a nicely rounded build which is why I opted for that instead. It gets expensive switching builds so I'm waiting until the 20th to see what new gear makes it into the game.
Where do you get these #'s please show the DPS meter logs. I would love to see your data.
300-400 more damage on a 2-3k range. Which is a huge range BTW that's a whole 1k damage difference with a 100 damage per hit different. Show math.
Timeless is easy to calculate as it's a CRT Bonus as there are math tables out for that stat. It's going to give you 10%+ CRT Chance on a base of 75% (without Vorpal) you are looking at 7.5+% Damage bonus overall.
How much is the 60% Bonus from Stal raising damage? over 7.5%?
If cleave is really getting a 15% damage increase from the bonus as you suggest that's amazing a 15% damage increase from a bonus. But lets see the real values from a data log.
Mixing up bonuses; Stalwart is 5% of your maximum hp as power when hit, up to 5 stacks; so around 6k power minmum, more if you have high con.
That said the REAL power of that comes from the massive number of % based damage bonuses guardians have which multiply the effect of power, as noted earlier
Cleave = 1dmg:1wepdmg 7500power/25powerperwepdmg = 300 wepdmg = 300 dmg
Enforced Theat has a 1,78 ratio and Frontslide Surge has a 2,94. I forgot Villain's Menace ratio.
Enforced is roughly 15% of your dps, same with Frontslide. Cleave is like 45%.