Show me please where and how you are forced to do Gauntlgrym?
Once again i will ask you to pay attention to what you read , this patch was described as "release of Gauntlgrym, which adds more end-game content." , how many pver's do you know that will not aspire to reach endgame content ??
Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish. It's a statement of a fact, it would be ad hominem if I labeled anyone, or even any group of people, as children, I didn't.
Wrong, no one is complaining about new content.
The paradigm and ideas implemented in said new content however is a different matter, folks are totally entitled to have an opinion of said paradigms and ideas. And there is nothing childish about that. There is a big difference
One is: "OMG YOU'RE ADDING NEW CONTENT!? HOW STUPID"
The other is: "OH YAY! NEW CONTENT!!! But... I don't like how in order to take part in it and enjoy it I need to pvp"
Please don't straw man me again... thanks.
Show me please where and how you are forced to do Gauntlgrym?
Dead end argument is a dead end. I don't have to log into the game, that doesn't negate my subjective opinion on it from what I have experienced and from drawing conclusions based on what I see. Again, a highly flawed vapid argument.
For the sake of argument, I'll omit the possibility to whip out CC and buy AD and everything off AH that way, here is how it is different:
Can you obtain best gear for PvP without stepping into PvE? No.
Can you obtain best gear for PvE without stepping into Gauntlgrym? Yes.
Any more questions?
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anderson41501Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
It is very interesting.. go from PvE gathering to PVP back to a PvE dungeon. It is very interesting concept that I hope I will enjoy. My only question will be if the party sizes will increase. Instead of having only 5 to a party will they be increased to 20 for this. My guild would be pumped for a 20 man guild run of this
The paradigm and ideas implemented in said new content however is a different matter, folks are totally entitled to have an opinion of said paradigms and ideas. And there is nothing childish about that.
Straw man, I never said there is anything childish about having an opinion. Please go back and read my post and the post I'm quoting in reference to the "normal reaction" that I've called childish, thank you.
Because it's forced. Both types of players more often than not have different builds and experience with PVP and PVE and want different things also. This is pretty obvious as it's been there constantly in communication and feedback in a ton of MMO games now from my experience. The pvp in this game is also considered "nearly unplayable" to most what with all the bugs, so the confidence in them being able to deliver this in a professional manner is at an all time low.
Folks aren't out and out raging against this, because all that will happen is they'll be trolled by folks who blindly defend the game or posture at defending to be more precise, and it only incites more flame. People are taking the other option methinks. Ignoring the news and getting whatever enjoyment from the game they can, while repeating the mantra "At least it's not SWTOR's F2P"
Do not want to do it? Quit the game, its a GREAT idea. Its part of this game, they are not going to drop it because a few people just do not like to loose at pvp. If you are bad at PVP.. get better at it... it will now be a part of this game. When have they ever stated that pvp/pve were going to be separate? I am pretty sure they have hinted MULTIPLE TIMES that pvp was going to be a big part of end-game.. you should read more, and just go back to playing other games that are easy.
To add something, its going to be EPIC when your reward is the access to the dungeon. People will work together, more strategy..
Straw man, I never said there is anything childish about having an opinion. Please go back and read my post and the post I'm quoting in reference to the "normal reaction" that I've called childish, thank you.
edit:
And that is a line of an argument I can sympathise with.
"Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish"
- You.
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bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
My only question will be if the party sizes will increase. Instead of having only 5 to a party will they be increased to 20 for this. My guild would be pumped for a 20 man guild run of this
From what they showed it seemed groups were still 5 player.
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tyr216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Straw man, I never said there is anything childish about having an opinion. Please go back and read my post and the post I'm quoting in reference to the "normal reaction" that I've called childish, thank you.
It's a reasonable reaction, and you're calling it childish, yet you're having the exact same reaction but on the other side of the fence. You complain about having to PvE to get PvP gear. You complain about PvE'ers already having more content to do than PvP'ers. You complain about the PvE'ers complaining about the new zone. Would you complain if the PvE and PvP in Gauntlgrym were entirely separate components? Probably.
Didn't need to read anything after this, pretty much can safely assume your post will be
<personal preference>
<blind defence of decision to implement this way>
<ad hominem>
<suggestion that it's not that game for you and to politely eff off>
"Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish"
- You.
Yes, let me emphasise for your better understanding:
"Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish"
I'll be the first to admit, I suck at PvP, which is why I'm not a fan of it. However, I think including some real end game content for people who do enjoy PvP is a great idea. I'll certainly try it, and if I don't like it, then no big deal, I'll just do something else instead.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
tyr216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes, let me emphasise for your better understanding:
"Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish"
Do not want to do it? Quit the game, its a GREAT idea. Its part of this game, they are not going to drop it because a few people just do not like to loose at pvp. If you are bad at PVP.. get better at it... it will now be a part of this game. When have they ever stated that pvp/pve were going to be separate? I am pretty sure they have hinted MULTIPLE TIMES that pvp was going to be a big part of end-game.. you should read more, and just go back to playing other games that are easy.
You must be a terrible pvp'er m8 , your kind of attitude and lack of respect for others opinions and views is perhaps why so many don't bother to play pvp in the first place !! They got tired of running into people like you who give pvp a bad name!!
Yes, let me emphasise for your better understanding:
"Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish"
I see nothing childish at this point of time in people showing some anger, it's a perfectly rational response, lets look at the bigger picture of just how many things have gone wrong since this game went into closed beta and then got exasperated when it hit open beta shall we?
Or perhaps we should look at the defense that someone took to using when trying to excuse cryptic?
"They're not a big team you guise" (paraphrased)
^ it's stuff like this that makes people angry. The sheer blind naivety
See, if history of game development is anything to go by, if you mix your pvp and pve too much, the result is a horrible mess of those that can and those that can't. let's be honest here, how many time in your history of mmo playing, have you gotten someone in your group who is a total newbie. not a **** or anything derogatory, but a newbie, just inexperienced but otherwise pleasant and worth helping out?
Now in the less competitive sense of PVE that is never as bad, in fact the drama is usually kept to a minimum and with a bit of help and advice things go well. In PVP the stakes are MUCH higher and attitudes are a LOT different and unforgiving, not even taking into account that a lot of pvp players were in fact afk and botting because the system was that flawed to allow it. There is such a emphasis on CC that it will inevitably be crazy as heck in a 20 man match, I "personally" like both PVP and PVE, but only when they're done RIGHT and any time I see a mixing of both It's been the same and rather than creating any sort of beautiful peanut butter and chocolate fusion, has instead has been something from that scene in alien: resurrection, more likely to beg for death than work in general.
Then again, disregarding even all this. I don't see the anger you do, mostly I just get a overwhelming sense of disappointment and some general laughter at the expense of cryptic from most posts.
If you want to see anger, look at the video responses for SWTOR's F2P limitations, that was anger, or the D3 forums when it was at the height of the drama. I just see let down folks here, not childish anger.
The anger passed along with a sizeable chunk of folks a few weeks back. Sure they may return, but right now they're not actively playing or raging.
Many of us who really enjoy the game and are willing to overlook some of the sad events in the last few weeks , where actually looking forward to this new content , something to serve as incentive to the majority of our friends who don't actually bother to log in anymore.
Yes Spyke you are correct , alot of disappointment , but ,lets hope for better days, regardless of how many of us remain , i will not claim this as a fact , but ill warrant that most of the players who are actually DnD fans and actually invested money to play Neverwinter are truly disappointed.
I see nothing childish at this point of time in people showing some anger, it's a perfectly rational response (...)
Anger, by definition, is an emotional response, not a rational one. I'll be able to address to read the rest of your post and maybe address other points later today, cheers.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited June 2013
The main concern I have is that classes in PvP, at least at the present time, are anything but balanced. I know the "big patch" is supposed to address some of that but for now I'm not convinced that will resolve all the problems. More than likely it will introduce new problems around balancing issues.
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kasuhariMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
Question can we que with our 5 man already made friends and Guildmate? I don't like PvP that much but I do want to do the PvE Dungeon with my friends. It kinda dumb we have to PvP to do a PvE Dungeon. Who come up with this stuff? Forcing people to PvP is not good.
Anger, by definition, is an emotional response, not a rational one. I'll be able to address to read the rest of your post and maybe address other points later today, cheers.
thank you spock.
Now back in reality, people get angry from time to time, it's a completely human response driven by many factors. There IS such a thing as irrational anger which I fully agree is childish, but you also justify a certain degree of anger when it has merit, especially when folks continually are made to feel like they're asking for A and being given X, Y and Z.
What was the entire point behind gauntlegryms design paradigms? what did they hope to accomplish? who were they making this for? Cos I certainly didn't ask for it, nor did I see countless threads screaming
"We demand that you create an "endgame" experience which combines your horribly imbalanced and incomplete PVP experience, with your underwhelming PVE experience, to create a "hambeast prime" of bad game design"
So what was the reason for this? where's the logic man?
yay i love it. only thing i DON'T agree with are the rewards.beta or not most of us already lvl 60, well geared with t2 set items. what's the point of rewarding us with more t2's we dont need or aren't going to seLL for much.i suggest make a different special items that drop from this event.only perosn who can say pve and pvp arent fun are mainly clerics so i dont no why other person whom i sure arent that clas are crying.
If your team isn't loaded with players who have top tier mounts,greater plaguefire and greater tenebrous enchants you will rarely see the T2 dungeon. You will be relegated to the t1 dungeon. I'm not whining about it, but that's pretty much the way it's gonna be. Prepare yourselves.
Comments
Once again i will ask you to pay attention to what you read , this patch was described as "release of Gauntlgrym, which adds more end-game content." , how many pver's do you know that will not aspire to reach endgame content ??
Wrong, no one is complaining about new content.
The paradigm and ideas implemented in said new content however is a different matter, folks are totally entitled to have an opinion of said paradigms and ideas. And there is nothing childish about that. There is a big difference
One is: "OMG YOU'RE ADDING NEW CONTENT!? HOW STUPID"
The other is: "OH YAY! NEW CONTENT!!! But... I don't like how in order to take part in it and enjoy it I need to pvp"
Please don't straw man me again... thanks.
Dead end argument is a dead end. I don't have to log into the game, that doesn't negate my subjective opinion on it from what I have experienced and from drawing conclusions based on what I see. Again, a highly flawed vapid argument.
For the sake of argument, I'll omit the possibility to whip out CC and buy AD and everything off AH that way, here is how it is different:
Can you obtain best gear for PvP without stepping into PvE? No.
Can you obtain best gear for PvE without stepping into Gauntlgrym? Yes.
Any more questions?
It's not about gear. It's about seeing the new PVE content.
Can you experience the new PVE content without stepping into Gauntlgrym? No. =Problem.
Straw man, I never said there is anything childish about having an opinion. Please go back and read my post and the post I'm quoting in reference to the "normal reaction" that I've called childish, thank you.
edit:
And that is a line of an argument I can sympathise with.
Do not want to do it? Quit the game, its a GREAT idea. Its part of this game, they are not going to drop it because a few people just do not like to loose at pvp. If you are bad at PVP.. get better at it... it will now be a part of this game. When have they ever stated that pvp/pve were going to be separate? I am pretty sure they have hinted MULTIPLE TIMES that pvp was going to be a big part of end-game.. you should read more, and just go back to playing other games that are easy.
To add something, its going to be EPIC when your reward is the access to the dungeon. People will work together, more strategy..
"Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish"
- You.
Once again this is a great idea. Get over it.
From what they showed it seemed groups were still 5 player.
It's a reasonable reaction, and you're calling it childish, yet you're having the exact same reaction but on the other side of the fence. You complain about having to PvE to get PvP gear. You complain about PvE'ers already having more content to do than PvP'ers. You complain about the PvE'ers complaining about the new zone. Would you complain if the PvE and PvP in Gauntlgrym were entirely separate components? Probably.
Didn't need to read anything after this, pretty much can safely assume your post will be
<personal preference>
<blind defence of decision to implement this way>
<ad hominem>
<suggestion that it's not that game for you and to politely eff off>
Though not necessarily in that order.
Yes, let me emphasise for your better understanding:
"Getting angry over content that's being added to the game that you might not enjoy due to own preferences, despite said content being optional, is childish"
You sound angry over some forum posts lol
You must be a terrible pvp'er m8 , your kind of attitude and lack of respect for others opinions and views is perhaps why so many don't bother to play pvp in the first place !! They got tired of running into people like you who give pvp a bad name!!
I'm perfectly relaxed and sipping some mint tea, but thank you for considering
I see nothing childish at this point of time in people showing some anger, it's a perfectly rational response, lets look at the bigger picture of just how many things have gone wrong since this game went into closed beta and then got exasperated when it hit open beta shall we?
Or perhaps we should look at the defense that someone took to using when trying to excuse cryptic?
"They're not a big team you guise" (paraphrased)
^ it's stuff like this that makes people angry. The sheer blind naivety
See, if history of game development is anything to go by, if you mix your pvp and pve too much, the result is a horrible mess of those that can and those that can't. let's be honest here, how many time in your history of mmo playing, have you gotten someone in your group who is a total newbie. not a **** or anything derogatory, but a newbie, just inexperienced but otherwise pleasant and worth helping out?
Now in the less competitive sense of PVE that is never as bad, in fact the drama is usually kept to a minimum and with a bit of help and advice things go well. In PVP the stakes are MUCH higher and attitudes are a LOT different and unforgiving, not even taking into account that a lot of pvp players were in fact afk and botting because the system was that flawed to allow it. There is such a emphasis on CC that it will inevitably be crazy as heck in a 20 man match, I "personally" like both PVP and PVE, but only when they're done RIGHT and any time I see a mixing of both It's been the same and rather than creating any sort of beautiful peanut butter and chocolate fusion, has instead has been something from that scene in alien: resurrection, more likely to beg for death than work in general.
Then again, disregarding even all this. I don't see the anger you do, mostly I just get a overwhelming sense of disappointment and some general laughter at the expense of cryptic from most posts.
If you want to see anger, look at the video responses for SWTOR's F2P limitations, that was anger, or the D3 forums when it was at the height of the drama. I just see let down folks here, not childish anger.
The anger passed along with a sizeable chunk of folks a few weeks back. Sure they may return, but right now they're not actively playing or raging.
Yes Spyke you are correct , alot of disappointment , but ,lets hope for better days, regardless of how many of us remain , i will not claim this as a fact , but ill warrant that most of the players who are actually DnD fans and actually invested money to play Neverwinter are truly disappointed.
Anger, by definition, is an emotional response, not a rational one. I'll be able to address to read the rest of your post and maybe address other points later today, cheers.
thank you spock.
Now back in reality, people get angry from time to time, it's a completely human response driven by many factors. There IS such a thing as irrational anger which I fully agree is childish, but you also justify a certain degree of anger when it has merit, especially when folks continually are made to feel like they're asking for A and being given X, Y and Z.
What was the entire point behind gauntlegryms design paradigms? what did they hope to accomplish? who were they making this for? Cos I certainly didn't ask for it, nor did I see countless threads screaming
"We demand that you create an "endgame" experience which combines your horribly imbalanced and incomplete PVP experience, with your underwhelming PVE experience, to create a "hambeast prime" of bad game design"
So what was the reason for this?