That pretty much sums it up for me. The GWF archetype is the only class I play in every MMO. Give me a big 2hander and take me to Cleaveland and I'm one happy camper. I will play the GWF when it's the underpowered wet noodle that it is now. I will play it when it's the next Flavor of the Month class. Nerfed or buffed, it's the only class that will ever be my main.
Will I stop advocating for improvements? No. I want to see my favorite class brought up to the same level as the other classes. I want to see my fellow players not sigh every time I join their group. I want to see zone chat no longer trolling GWF's looking for groups. Every class should have its equal place in a well balanced group. If GWF's were fine and everyone was crapping on TR's, I'd want TR's to get buffed too. It's not just about our favorite classes but the meta game as a whole. One class sucking this much compared to the others is not good for the game, regardless of what class it is.
Will I stop advocating for improvements? No. I want to see my favorite class brought up to the same level as the other classes. I want to see my fellow players not sigh every time I join their group. I want to see zone chat no longer trolling GWF's looking for groups. Every class should have its equal place in a well balanced group. If GWF's were fine and everyone was crapping on TR's, I'd want TR's to get buffed too. It's not just about our favorite classes but the meta game as a whole. One class sucking this much compared to the others is not good for the game, regardless of what class it is.
I'm just going to answer the question posed in the title.
What is the point of playing a GWF?
Erm.....I thought the point of doing anything in a video game was to have fun. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned and don't understand this newfangled elitism amongst people playing a freaking video game.
People who go to a lot of effort to figure out how to spend the least amount of time possible actually playing the game, have (in my opinion at least) completely missed the point of playing the game in the first place.
Oh, having a GWF along slows things down? My bad, I didn't realize getting through things as quickly as possible was the goal of playing a game meant for entertainment. It's not a freaking job, people.
It is fun and that is exactly why I picked the class in the first place and why I play the game. The question has a deeper more complex meaning than that. Those who play a GWF know exactly what I am talking about.
I can't think of anything more enjoyable than making something widely considered 'garbage' work, both in PvE and PvP content. The class truly feels like it scales more from the players experience and tact than from items and skills... You need thick skin to play one, especially in group settings. Hopefully these class balances help to make people realize just because it's a GWF, doesn't mean it has no place in the game.. That's the only thing I don't like about GWF, the amount of people who prejudge the player due to the class.
1. GWF have the slowest activation skill times (any class is faster when it comes to using the skills and who hits who first).
2. Any class does more damage than the GWF if played well.
3. GWF have no skills whatsoever that could be useful in a Dungeon.
4. CW do much more damage than a GWF. (CW = Control Wizard...yes a CC class has more damage than a pure melee class).
5. GWF is an "AoE" class...than why does a CC class do more damage?
6. GWF has higher defense than the TR/CW... then why does your HP deplete so much faster?
7. GWF has no chance to dodge a daily.
1. For optimal builds that is just a side note. If you are still able to do the damage (From a PvE persepctive) who cares if it took .2sec longer? You still top damage.
2. Wrong. This is why people kick GWFs; Because kids like you use this as a fact...when it just a lie. I consistently top damage using a build like this: http://guidescroll.com/2013/05/neverwinter-gwf-dps-pve-build-guide/ ; IF played right, a GWF can top damage (And assuming a TR is there and plays well, it will be close in terms of damage). The problem is a GWF is very hard to play right (Obviously too hard for people like you).
3. This is true and needs to be fixed. We bring nothing to the table. Even when we beat TRs and top damage...a TR can still do more than us in utility. A CW is easily beaten in damage, but we can't compete with 20 knockback kills, etc..
4. Lie. Assuming the CW and GWF are both good players, the GWF will win every time in damage done. What we will fail at is being able to knockback-kill mobs when bosses spawn them near ledges. Again, this is a utility loss against us; but we can easily top damage over a CW.
5. They do not do more damage. And we only an AOE class in some aspects. Once you stack your debuff (using the optimal build), you can switch to single-target and do more damage. Keep in mind my build is not exactly like the build I linked.
6. Because we have less defensive stats to begin with / our gear gives less. We were said by developers to be more of an off-tank...and their failure to make it so is not our fault. But the fact that you moved away from dps in this question tells me you just want to rant. Moving on.
7. Heroic Leap out of it during PvP fights. Works every time. And then I LoL when I kill the CW.
TLDR: If played right, you can top damage; If played right, you can kick *** at PvP; If played right, a GWF is #1 or #2 in terms of "must have" for a dungeon; We have no utility at all right now;
If your group wants to not be lazy and not skip half the dungeon trash, the CW is useless; You may also have to actually do bosses correctly (as in you can't nuke them and have the adds knocked off, you have to control your damage). If they want a cleric, fine; but get pots and dodge melee swings from big guys and you are fine.
GWF have the best tanking ability - I have lvl60 gf,gwf and rouge.
Gwf has some feats+passive+unstopable which will apply 92% DR:
here calculations:
deflect for gwf armour is 50%, so if deflect successfull we will have 50% dr.
The feats+passive (Bravery) on gwf gives you 15+15+5 = 35% deflect base + your deflect stat = cca 45% to have 50%dr.
Unstopable = 50dr, shout power if full stacks = 50dr
so in total DR, under these conditions (base dr (mine is 37%), unstoppable, shout full stacks, full stacks of feated weapon master+feat(which gives you 5%deflect), bravery(15% deflect)):
0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 * (1-0.37) = 0.083 % Damage taken or 92.7% Damage Reduction.
With shout + roar I can maintain unstopable most of the time.
In dungeons I tank much more than GF, and get killed ALLWAYS LAST.
Pretty fun when you almost immortal .
Great so you can survive better than most and I am not sure about that but who cares? Can you take aggro from a healer? From a CW? NO NO NO. So you survive while everyone dies. Nice. Good luck with that strat.
I'm just going to answer the question posed in the title.
What is the point of playing a GWF?
Erm.....I thought the point of doing anything in a video game was to have fun. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned and don't understand this newfangled elitism amongst people playing a freaking video game.
People who go to a lot of effort to figure out how to spend the least amount of time possible actually playing the game, have (in my opinion at least) completely missed the point of playing the game in the first place.
Oh, having a GWF along slows things down? My bad, I didn't realize getting through things as quickly as possible was the goal of playing a game meant for entertainment. It's not a freaking job, people.
I love this post. I am sorry to be harsh here but you ...
1. Criticize a guy because he wants to play a certain style (alphamode)
2. Then tell the guy your way is wrong my way is right.
Why is your way more "right" than his way? The blatant hypocrisy is glaring.
Everyone has their own play style right? And you are right, older people just want to relax and not worried about min-maxing but some people live for that. Don't lecture them on how they should play. You play it your way and let them play it theirs.
1. For optimal builds that is just a side note. If you are still able to do the damage (From a PvE persepctive) who cares if it took .2sec longer? You still top damage.
2. Wrong. This is why people kick GWFs; Because kids like you use this as a fact...when it just a lie. I consistently top damage using a build like this: http://guidescroll.com/2013/05/neverwinter-gwf-dps-pve-build-guide/ ; IF played right, a GWF can top damage (And assuming a TR is there and plays well, it will be close in terms of damage). The problem is a GWF is very hard to play right (Obviously too hard for people like you).
3. This is true and needs to be fixed. We bring nothing to the table. Even when we beat TRs and top damage...a TR can still do more than us in utility. A CW is easily beaten in damage, but we can't compete with 20 knockback kills, etc..
4. Lie. Assuming the CW and GWF are both good players, the GWF will win every time in damage done. What we will fail at is being able to knockback-kill mobs when bosses spawn them near ledges. Again, this is a utility loss against us; but we can easily top damage over a CW.
5. They do not do more damage. And we only an AOE class in some aspects. Once you stack your debuff (using the optimal build), you can switch to single-target and do more damage. Keep in mind my build is not exactly like the build I linked.
6. Because we have less defensive stats to begin with / our gear gives less. We were said by developers to be more of an off-tank...and their failure to make it so is not our fault. But the fact that you moved away from dps in this question tells me you just want to rant. Moving on.
7. Heroic Leap out of it during PvP fights. Works every time. And then I LoL when I kill the CW.
TLDR: If played right, you can top damage; If played right, you can kick *** at PvP; If played right, a GWF is #1 or #2 in terms of "must have" for a dungeon; We have no utility at all right now;
If your group wants to not be lazy and not skip half the dungeon trash, the CW is useless; You may also have to actually do bosses correctly (as in you can't nuke them and have the adds knocked off, you have to control your damage). If they want a cleric, fine; but get pots and dodge melee swings from big guys and you are fine.
It goes on and on....
Most of this other then him agreeing on point #3 is garbage.
Read point #3 and then tell me WHAT IS THE POINT OF DAMAGE IF ALL THEY DO IS KNOCK MOBS OFF BRIDGES? No way a GWF out dps a TR (all things being equal).
That sums up and answers most of the posts in here. I replied to a few that were annoying.
Just read the posts in here and think about the language in a macro sense. It is never "GWF" is awesome you guys don't know what you are takling about. At best it is, if played perfectly GWF can compete.
Something I did not address in my post; the "fun" factor.
If like one of the posters said, he likes a challenge then sure play it. I think it is by far the most complex and challenging class. So many builds for it so many ways to play it. CW one way. TR one way. DC one way. Well maybe a couple of ways for the GF. And if that is your bag you hit the mother lode.
For all you peeps who look at that damage box at the end of the dungeon... please stop. It is absolute garbage info. Play spellplague where 80% of the combat is on a bridge. Play any T2 dungeon where most of the fighting is on a bridge. Then, when you get to a boss the adds are so crazy if you don't have a TR zerging the boss you will eventually all die. And if you don't have a CW stalling the adds so the TR can zerg the boss you will all die.
It is like everyone that defends the GWF never played a T2 dungeon and all their info is off of T1 dungeons. I rarely got kicked in a T1. I was 2nd or 3rd all the time in T1 dungeons, in damage dealt. I thought GWF was great and had no clue what people were crying about. Then I played Pirates and I was like, how did that TR lap me three times in damage? Even if I suck, how is that possible? Because he kills me in single dps and all the other mobs to a boss are knocked off bridges.
And anyone... anyone who can say they can go one on one with a CW and win in PVP is either another CW or just flat out telling lies. I am not talking about coming in during mass fight and plastering him with your daily. I am talking about you just took a shrine and here on his horse comes a CW or vice versa. 1 on 1 anything dies against a CW. Don't lie. It just makes your post worthless as no one will believe you.
Great so you can survive better than most and I am not sure about that but who cares? Can you take aggro from a healer? From a CW? NO NO NO. So you survive while everyone dies. Nice. Good luck with that strat.
Seems like you don't have much clue in threat mechanics.
You realize with a decent amount of life steal you will in fact pull a lot of aggro?
I have no issue with threat. I also have no issue with pushing mobs off of someone with roar. The damage added with heal threat makes the mob think twice about ignoring me and trying to tunnel the DC or CW.
Seems like you don't have much clue in threat mechanics.
You realize with a decent amount of life steal you will in fact pull a lot of aggro?
I have no issue with threat. I also have no issue with pushing mobs off of someone with roar. The damage added with heal threat makes the mob think twice about ignoring me and trying to tunnel the DC or CW.
What are you talking about? Reaping strike in a T2 dungeon to take threat? Are you kidding me? In a T2 dungeon there is so much red on the floor everything is threatened. The only time you need to take threat is during a boss fight where all the adds flock to the DC due to his healing circle. That circle heals usually 4 party members continously. Your reaping strike heals one toon for like 500 points per strike. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? You are not taking away threat from the DC. It is impossible except for one encounter that a GF has. You are why I get so annoyed. I don't know if you are just being argumentative or if you have limited experience in T2 dungeons or if you just hate me. I don't know. But dude, reaping strike to take threat from a DC? Seriously?
So if you are using reaping strike and roar as your encounters then you are left with IBS as your third encounter? No flourish?
OK, maybe in a sentinel build you don't need flourish but I just can't see anyone not using flourish.
What are you talking about? Reaping strike in a T2 dungeon to take threat? Are you kidding me? In a T2 dungeon there is so much red on the floor everything is threatened. The only time you need to take threat is during a boss fight where all the adds flock to the DC due to his healing circle. That circle heals usually 4 party members continously. Your reaping strike heals one toon for like 500 points per strike. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? You are not taking away threat from the DC. It is impossible except for one encounter that a GF has. You are why I get so annoyed. I don't know if you are just being argumentative or if you have limited experience in T2 dungeons or if you just hate me. I don't know. But dude, reaping strike to take threat from a DC? Seriously?
So if you are using reaping strike and roar as your encounters then you are left with IBS as your third encounter? No flourish?
OK, maybe in a sentinel build you don't need flourish but I just can't see anyone not using flourish.
Back off. I never mentioned RS. I would not use RS.
What are you talking about? Reaping strike in a T2 dungeon to take threat? Are you kidding me? In a T2 dungeon there is so much red on the floor everything is threatened. The only time you need to take threat is during a boss fight where all the adds flock to the DC due to his healing circle. That circle heals usually 4 party members continously. Your reaping strike heals one toon for like 500 points per strike. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? You are not taking away threat from the DC. It is impossible except for one encounter that a GF has. You are why I get so annoyed. I don't know if you are just being argumentative or if you have limited experience in T2 dungeons or if you just hate me. I don't know. But dude, reaping strike to take threat from a DC? Seriously?
So if you are using reaping strike and roar as your encounters then you are left with IBS as your third encounter? No flourish?
OK, maybe in a sentinel build you don't need flourish but I just can't see anyone not using flourish.
I think that you are becoming a little confused. Reaping Strike is an at-will that GWFs get at around level 2. At high level, when charged up, it deals a lot more than 500 damage, to everything within quite a large radius of the GWF.
If you were mistakenly referring to Restoring Strike, that is an encounter ability, but still not really relevant to what he said, unless you are a little sketchy on game mechanics.
Life Steal is a stat that can be found on items of equipment, that returns a portion of damage dealt by that character as healing. As with many stats, the more that you have, the more effective it is. A GWF AoEing into a pile of mobs will be gaining a significant portion of health back, and the threat caused by that, as well as the damage being dealt could be considerable, particularly since they will be taking damage, and thus getting healed rather than overhealed.
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craftymangMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited June 2013
I shelved my GWF until it receives a buff, standing in mindflayer zone chat spamming to get into a T1 group at 9.3k GS and getting zero replies for hours on end is not my idea of fun.
At this point GWF NEEDS a buff even if it was supposedly balanced (it's not) just to get rid of the stigma of taking one in a group.
I am very happy this post is still very much alive. The information here is very valuable and our opinions matter. I hope some positive changes are made to our bad *** GWF soon. =] Keep it up guys!!!
I have wondered this myself. I play all the classes and they fill a specific role nicely. I feel like when playing my GWF I am not really contributing to the group. The weird thing is, I enjoy the GWF the most, so I am sticking with it and hoping they get better.
When ever anyone tries to pump up the GWF as a useful class they say I do almost as much damage as the rogue on the end dungeon damage meter. Some claim t out DPS even the best rogues. But this is besides the point. Think of it like this.
The GWF spends Most of his time in a dungeon beating on 3-5 mobs all at the same time. The rogue only targets one mob at a time yet he is still out damaging the GWF. Meaning he does 3-5 times or more single target damage than a GWF can do per hit in Aoe Damage. a GWF's single target damage is not that much high than his base AOE damage. Menaing that when it comes to a boss fight where adds often get scattered the GWF becomes a liability to the group. Sure they are fine all the way up t othe boss and shine killing trash.. But any Class can kill trash well. the DC, CW and GF all have respectable aoe attacks. The GF having more at will and encounter damage than the GWF and the cleric having vastly superior encounter and daily aoe damage. Plus they help mitigate the parties damage when the GWF can't do anything other than put up some high numbers on trash mobs.
If there AOE damage was respectable enough for them to really be the masters of AOE they would be #1 Damage dealt at the end of every dungeon (because they hit 3-5 mobs all the time) and they could do this and the rogue could still have twice the Single target DPS than the GWF and the rogue would still be favored in the boss fights.
But yeah right now it is sad. just look at the base numbers of all the GWF powers without stacking a ton of damage gear they can't DPS well at all while tank classes and healing classes can still do plenty of damage without the DPS gear.
Serious right? I mean everyone gets kicked but DCs.
It's just one of those "guys" that comes to the forums and then claims one of the following:
-Never lost a PvP match
-Always top scores in DPS
-Never gets kicked out of parties
-Get recruited (consistently) on zone chat
Does it matter now? Playing GWF now is suboptimal even if it's your favorite class. Access to loot and t2 drops is vastly dwarfed by CW/TR/DCs. Great you DD'd a t2 helm? Grats on your 50k AD Titans/Vigilant. Any other class, due to popularity, strength, and resulting market-base has much better value when it comes to AD on the auction house. Unless you're lucky rolling for offclass epics, you're not going to see the same income as a equable CW/TR/DC. It's a doubled effect from a class being weak and unwelcome in dungeons that it gets relegated to a lower class, scrubbing t1s or flipping AH for AD. Alternatively you could camp pvp for blue belts, but the way those rankings work you're lucky to score above the TRs/CWs on your team.
When, and if, the balance wave hits GWFs and they become flavor of the month. The first people on the wagon will be those who have the resources to gear up a GWF instantly, the same holy (class) trinity that dominated the game this iteration. We wouldn't have this problem if epics were BoP. We wouldn't have this problem if the next patch introduces enough new gear/content to equalize playing fields across the board. We wouldn't have this problem if classes were balanced in the first place. But all that is behind us now, I'm looking forward to seeing Cryptic/PWE's solution this coming balance patch.
Comments
Thank you.
It is a very fun class to play...just like any other. So?
Genius. I shed a tear.
It is fun and that is exactly why I picked the class in the first place and why I play the game. The question has a deeper more complex meaning than that. Those who play a GWF know exactly what I am talking about.
1. For optimal builds that is just a side note. If you are still able to do the damage (From a PvE persepctive) who cares if it took .2sec longer? You still top damage.
2. Wrong. This is why people kick GWFs; Because kids like you use this as a fact...when it just a lie. I consistently top damage using a build like this: http://guidescroll.com/2013/05/neverwinter-gwf-dps-pve-build-guide/ ; IF played right, a GWF can top damage (And assuming a TR is there and plays well, it will be close in terms of damage). The problem is a GWF is very hard to play right (Obviously too hard for people like you).
3. This is true and needs to be fixed. We bring nothing to the table. Even when we beat TRs and top damage...a TR can still do more than us in utility. A CW is easily beaten in damage, but we can't compete with 20 knockback kills, etc..
4. Lie. Assuming the CW and GWF are both good players, the GWF will win every time in damage done. What we will fail at is being able to knockback-kill mobs when bosses spawn them near ledges. Again, this is a utility loss against us; but we can easily top damage over a CW.
5. They do not do more damage. And we only an AOE class in some aspects. Once you stack your debuff (using the optimal build), you can switch to single-target and do more damage. Keep in mind my build is not exactly like the build I linked.
6. Because we have less defensive stats to begin with / our gear gives less. We were said by developers to be more of an off-tank...and their failure to make it so is not our fault. But the fact that you moved away from dps in this question tells me you just want to rant. Moving on.
7. Heroic Leap out of it during PvP fights. Works every time. And then I LoL when I kill the CW.
TLDR: If played right, you can top damage; If played right, you can kick *** at PvP; If played right, a GWF is #1 or #2 in terms of "must have" for a dungeon; We have no utility at all right now;
If your group wants to not be lazy and not skip half the dungeon trash, the CW is useless; You may also have to actually do bosses correctly (as in you can't nuke them and have the adds knocked off, you have to control your damage). If they want a cleric, fine; but get pots and dodge melee swings from big guys and you are fine.
It goes on and on....
Serious right? I mean everyone gets kicked but DCs.
Great so you can survive better than most and I am not sure about that but who cares? Can you take aggro from a healer? From a CW? NO NO NO. So you survive while everyone dies. Nice. Good luck with that strat.
I love this post. I am sorry to be harsh here but you ...
1. Criticize a guy because he wants to play a certain style (alphamode)
2. Then tell the guy your way is wrong my way is right.
Why is your way more "right" than his way? The blatant hypocrisy is glaring.
Everyone has their own play style right? And you are right, older people just want to relax and not worried about min-maxing but some people live for that. Don't lecture them on how they should play. You play it your way and let them play it theirs.
Most of this other then him agreeing on point #3 is garbage.
Read point #3 and then tell me WHAT IS THE POINT OF DAMAGE IF ALL THEY DO IS KNOCK MOBS OFF BRIDGES? No way a GWF out dps a TR (all things being equal).
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?322931-Best-single-target-at-will/page3
That sums up and answers most of the posts in here. I replied to a few that were annoying.
Just read the posts in here and think about the language in a macro sense. It is never "GWF" is awesome you guys don't know what you are takling about. At best it is, if played perfectly GWF can compete.
Something I did not address in my post; the "fun" factor.
If like one of the posters said, he likes a challenge then sure play it. I think it is by far the most complex and challenging class. So many builds for it so many ways to play it. CW one way. TR one way. DC one way. Well maybe a couple of ways for the GF. And if that is your bag you hit the mother lode.
For all you peeps who look at that damage box at the end of the dungeon... please stop. It is absolute garbage info. Play spellplague where 80% of the combat is on a bridge. Play any T2 dungeon where most of the fighting is on a bridge. Then, when you get to a boss the adds are so crazy if you don't have a TR zerging the boss you will eventually all die. And if you don't have a CW stalling the adds so the TR can zerg the boss you will all die.
It is like everyone that defends the GWF never played a T2 dungeon and all their info is off of T1 dungeons. I rarely got kicked in a T1. I was 2nd or 3rd all the time in T1 dungeons, in damage dealt. I thought GWF was great and had no clue what people were crying about. Then I played Pirates and I was like, how did that TR lap me three times in damage? Even if I suck, how is that possible? Because he kills me in single dps and all the other mobs to a boss are knocked off bridges.
And anyone... anyone who can say they can go one on one with a CW and win in PVP is either another CW or just flat out telling lies. I am not talking about coming in during mass fight and plastering him with your daily. I am talking about you just took a shrine and here on his horse comes a CW or vice versa. 1 on 1 anything dies against a CW. Don't lie. It just makes your post worthless as no one will believe you.
Seems like you don't have much clue in threat mechanics.
You realize with a decent amount of life steal you will in fact pull a lot of aggro?
I have no issue with threat. I also have no issue with pushing mobs off of someone with roar. The damage added with heal threat makes the mob think twice about ignoring me and trying to tunnel the DC or CW.
What are you talking about? Reaping strike in a T2 dungeon to take threat? Are you kidding me? In a T2 dungeon there is so much red on the floor everything is threatened. The only time you need to take threat is during a boss fight where all the adds flock to the DC due to his healing circle. That circle heals usually 4 party members continously. Your reaping strike heals one toon for like 500 points per strike. WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? You are not taking away threat from the DC. It is impossible except for one encounter that a GF has. You are why I get so annoyed. I don't know if you are just being argumentative or if you have limited experience in T2 dungeons or if you just hate me. I don't know. But dude, reaping strike to take threat from a DC? Seriously?
So if you are using reaping strike and roar as your encounters then you are left with IBS as your third encounter? No flourish?
OK, maybe in a sentinel build you don't need flourish but I just can't see anyone not using flourish.
Back off. I never mentioned RS. I would not use RS.
If you were mistakenly referring to Restoring Strike, that is an encounter ability, but still not really relevant to what he said, unless you are a little sketchy on game mechanics.
Life Steal is a stat that can be found on items of equipment, that returns a portion of damage dealt by that character as healing. As with many stats, the more that you have, the more effective it is. A GWF AoEing into a pile of mobs will be gaining a significant portion of health back, and the threat caused by that, as well as the damage being dealt could be considerable, particularly since they will be taking damage, and thus getting healed rather than overhealed.
At this point GWF NEEDS a buff even if it was supposedly balanced (it's not) just to get rid of the stigma of taking one in a group.
The GWF spends Most of his time in a dungeon beating on 3-5 mobs all at the same time. The rogue only targets one mob at a time yet he is still out damaging the GWF. Meaning he does 3-5 times or more single target damage than a GWF can do per hit in Aoe Damage. a GWF's single target damage is not that much high than his base AOE damage. Menaing that when it comes to a boss fight where adds often get scattered the GWF becomes a liability to the group. Sure they are fine all the way up t othe boss and shine killing trash.. But any Class can kill trash well. the DC, CW and GF all have respectable aoe attacks. The GF having more at will and encounter damage than the GWF and the cleric having vastly superior encounter and daily aoe damage. Plus they help mitigate the parties damage when the GWF can't do anything other than put up some high numbers on trash mobs.
If there AOE damage was respectable enough for them to really be the masters of AOE they would be #1 Damage dealt at the end of every dungeon (because they hit 3-5 mobs all the time) and they could do this and the rogue could still have twice the Single target DPS than the GWF and the rogue would still be favored in the boss fights.
But yeah right now it is sad. just look at the base numbers of all the GWF powers without stacking a ton of damage gear they can't DPS well at all while tank classes and healing classes can still do plenty of damage without the DPS gear.
It's just one of those "guys" that comes to the forums and then claims one of the following:
-Never lost a PvP match
-Always top scores in DPS
-Never gets kicked out of parties
-Get recruited (consistently) on zone chat
All that being a gwf.
When, and if, the balance wave hits GWFs and they become flavor of the month. The first people on the wagon will be those who have the resources to gear up a GWF instantly, the same holy (class) trinity that dominated the game this iteration. We wouldn't have this problem if epics were BoP. We wouldn't have this problem if the next patch introduces enough new gear/content to equalize playing fields across the board. We wouldn't have this problem if classes were balanced in the first place. But all that is behind us now, I'm looking forward to seeing Cryptic/PWE's solution this coming balance patch.