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Armor Penetration Vs. Power

agentdarkagentdark Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvE Discussion
Which is better in terms of raw DPS PVE and PVP? Lately I been stacking power on my rogue. I have plenty of crit (50%), so don't tell me I should be stacking that. I find 50% perfect. Currently, I have all rank 5 radiants in every offencive slot and now that I have more money, I been thinking that since power has such little return, like every 25 power for me is 1 extra damage or some sh*t like that, I been looking at other ways to increase my DPS without going ape sh*t on rank 8 enchants everywhere... Armor penetration looks like "on paper" that it would be better since it calculates as a percentage but what I don't know is, how much is too much? Do PVE mobs even have damage resistance? If so how much? Is power still better because nobody knows? lol
Post edited by agentdark on

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    pinkfontpinkfont Member Posts: 563 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I think people suggest around 2200 armor penetration for rogues. You should probably have posted this on the rogue forums, although most people seem divided on the issue there.
    A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
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    agentdarkagentdark Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pinkfont wrote: »
    I think people suggest around 2200 armor penetration for rogues.

    Why though? Should that 2.2k penetration come first before power? That seems like it would be a tough number to reach since all the best PVE armor sets don't have penetration stats incorporated.
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    sanctumlolsanctumlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 382 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    22% = how much DR% mobs have.
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    klipstaklipsta Member Posts: 99
    edited June 2013
    It's not certain yet but around 2200. The thing is with a competent party you can get away with less because of debuffs. Stacking power isn't ideal after a certain point, and again the math hasn't been 100% verified yet but around 2000-2500 is ideal
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    sanctumlolsanctumlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 382 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    klipsta wrote: »
    It's not certain yet but around 2200. The thing is with a competent party you can get away with less because of debuffs. Stacking power isn't ideal after a certain point, and again the math hasn't been 100% verified yet but around 2000-2500 is ideal
    Lol. Power is the only stat that doesn't DR. Crit/Recovery/ArP DR which is why you wanna stop stacking, you stack power after you have gotten those stats to their ideal values.
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    cynabal2cynabal2 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Skills that reduce mitigation will go below 0%. NPCs have 22% "mitigation" which with 2200 ARP you reduce to 0.

    ARP per point is the strongest damage dealing stat until 2200. ARP will not reduce mitigation below 0%.
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    erdokanerdokan Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    sanctumlol wrote: »
    Lol. Power is the only stat that doesn't DR. Crit/Recovery/ArP DR which is why you wanna stop stacking, you stack power after you have gotten those stats to their ideal values.

    Out of interest, which number do you consider to be the ideal value for crit % and recovery?
    David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
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    agentdarkagentdark Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    thanks guys
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    modimormodimor Member Posts: 198 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Apearantly ArmPen adds dmg even if it cut's below dmg resistance. 25% ArmPen against 20% Ressist is a 25% dmg buff. I dunno if this is a programming error or if the guy who came up with it is a complete tool or what. They really need to have a look at this especially for pvp. 25% Armor Pen of a 20% Defence should increace dmg by 5%. It's complelty broken in it current state making Mail and Plate classes wear glass armor.
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    agbadehanagbadehan Member Posts: 74
    edited June 2013
    ~3000 crit and recovery
    ~2000 armor pen
    ~Pump up power hella high after that point.

    ^End Game with cats/stones & swashbuckler n ****.
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    damianessdamianess Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 283 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    modimor wrote: »
    Apearantly ArmPen adds dmg even if it cut's below dmg resistance. 25% ArmPen against 20% Ressist is a 25% dmg buff. I dunno if this is a programming error or if the guy who came up with it is a complete tool or what. They really need to have a look at this especially for pvp. 25% Armor Pen of a 20% Defence should increace dmg by 5%. It's complelty broken in it current state making Mail and Plate classes wear glass armor.

    Armor penetration doesn't make DR to negative. Anything past 22% arm pen goes to waste because it stops at 0. Debuffs on the other hand can make it go to negative.
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    sanctumlolsanctumlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 382 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    agbadehan wrote: »
    ~3000 crit and recovery
    ~2000 armor pen
    ~Pump up power hella high after that point.

    ^End Game with cats/stones & swashbuckler n ****.
    No

    It depends on the class but, 22% ArP, recovery 2.5k-3k (it's pretty ****ty), crit to 2k (even ****tier) then power
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    agbadehanagbadehan Member Posts: 74
    edited June 2013
    sanctumlol wrote: »
    No

    It depends on the class but, 22% ArP, recovery 2.5k-3k (it's pretty ****ty), crit to 2k (even ****tier) then power

    He's a rogue. The use of "~" denotes "about" which means he wants around this number +/-. "About" 2000 armor pen will give you 20%, 2200 will give you the 22% you're looking for before DR starts kicking in iirc. Don't see how listing a range of 2.5 to 3k for recovery is different from saying about 3k but w/e. I only say 3000 crit to hit 50% but he's already at 50% so I'm pretty sure he's at or close to 3k. Then I stated pump power up "after that point".

    It's cute that you typed "no" and then reiterated my post though.
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    nukeyoonukeyoo Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    agbadehan wrote: »
    It's cute that you typed "no" and then reiterated my post though.

    I love it when people try to make arguing points by agreeing with your point.
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    sanctumlolsanctumlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 382 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    agbadehan wrote: »
    He's a rogue. The use of "~" denotes "about" which means he wants around this number +/-. "About" 2000 armor pen will give you 20%, 2200 will give you the 22% you're looking for before DR starts kicking in iirc. Don't see how listing a range of 2.5 to 3k for recovery is different from saying about 3k but w/e. I only say 3000 crit to hit 50% but he's already at 50% so I'm pretty sure he's at or close to 3k. Then I stated pump power up "after that point".

    It's cute that you typed "no" and then reiterated my post though.

    2k is very far from 3k

    recovery is closer to 2.5k than 3k

    I only said no because I was too lazy to type "that's not entirely correct".
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