these tests were done with the WMS buff up
i tested for 10mins each and took the avg for the duration
also this is not for dps, i chose to do it for dmg per 3 secs (WMS + mirror is 1.5 secs/full SS is 3 secs/RS full channel + swing is 2.5 secs)
did not use <tab> at any point
did not have student of the sword feat
did not have destroyer equipted
used weapon master for the tests on the crits only
i added WMS swings and mirrors together and counted them as 1 then divided by the number of swings (due to no swing = no mirror)
SS totals were divided by 4 then calculated (due to the 4th hit doing more dmg then 1st 3)
RS calcs were more difficult due to having to take out any that i jumped the gun on and didnt get full charge and the ones that i waited too long and didnt hit while the WMS buff was up
both norm hits and crits follow this pattern
explanation:
st:
SS did more dmg than WMS but the difference was miniscule.
RS did more than WMS by about 10%
RS w/ feat did more than WMS by about 35%
aoe: (tested 3 targets)
RS did more than WMS by about 20%
these tests were on the dummies in the room with only 3 (right side as u walk in)
and while yes i know using dummies doesnt factor in defence, it gives a controlled baseline
dummies also negate armor pen, which can skew results, if you hit mobs with diff defence values
(yes, it has been stated that most mobs have a defence value of 22%, but it is just a rounded calculation. without knowing the exact %, the results will be skewed, even if just slightly)
well, time to get back on NW
edit: about the concern for lack of mobility when using RS, i personally use punishing charge to move out of the higher dmg zones. when hit, it immediately moves you, no wait for attack animation due to it breaking attack animation base. also a tip, if i know what the quality of player my dc is, i will stand in ground zones than continuously do dmg as the low constant dmg does generate determination and when combined with the passive increase to determination while charging RS, the determionation gain per dmg taken is actually higher than any other combination. (just standing in it while keeping RS charging and not letting it go, i went from empty to full determination in about 15 secs which = about 1/3 my hp pool(while taking a 20k hit with RS up nets u still only about 50% of the bar which is the max value for 1 source of dmg) usually by doing this i am able to pop <tab> within 3-4 secs of it dropping, which nets less dmg taken overall.
(by playing this way, ive been told that dungeon are alot easier to heal, due to less healing required per fight (also was told that CN's difficulty dropped by quite a bit when i ran it with the same guildy dc)
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daradalMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
No one like reaping strike huh? If I'm reading my numbers right I do about 40 or 50 percent more damage with it. ar 42 it seems the 4 hits from SS and WS do nearly the same, around 600 or so and crit for over a thousand.
RS will do 1500 on average and crit for over 3k....
So my basic play is this I run up tap WMS to debuff, start charging reaping strike, let it go, tap WMS again. I'm at the pirates, what doesn't die after the first RS dies with the next WMS usually. If RS crits everythings dead....Obviously some of the midlevels take more, trappers, mages, those big things cant remember the name....
Also when I do that my unstoppable bar fills up in about 3 seconds.....
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mandragore139Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Well I do, at least on paper, got to respec and test it more in the field. WMS + RS might be a killer combo - aleast for pve.
on a side note, I'm wondering about constitution focus - does it only buff hp or does it give armor pen as well?..
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mandragore139Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited May 2013
Well, just got screwed in the frozen heart, T2 yay -.-.
I was trying out my WMS + RS build which preformed okay i guess. Not overwhelming since I was basically toe to toe with the GF, who had in my defense the better gear. (I'm running around with pvp gear...)
In short, I wouldn't say that RS was particular good or bad, just that i might need a bit more practice with it and don't force my self to rotate it.
The dungeon itself is a masterpiece of pain for melees - especially if you got no real evade and log casting times - yay. Since the boss itself and every 3rd add casts a knock-back attack not to mention the almost one-hit attack from the boss.
So in a nutshell, I realized again that live as a melee is fun...
... so when was the eta for the ranger class again
fallow this rottation wms, ws,ws wms, ws, ws.... you can ws when your wms is doing its mirror attack
Correct me if I'm wrong, I tried this to see, but doesn't switching from WMS to WS after one strike reduce the stacks you were building up? Has to, because aside from feeling like I was doing something cool when the rhythm was down, I noticed a decrese in damage output.
At least for PVE I'm still considering reaping strike. I realize that this one won't be very popular, but from the numbers I see it has the potential to be viable.
I would like to see what you say after you try it some more. I'm sorry, but the charge time reduces the amount of enemies you're striking. In two epic runs today my team needed me to be slaughtering adds, and reaping kind of slows down the process, like significantly. Waste of time.
these tests were done with the WMS buff up
i tested for 10mins each and took the avg for the duration
also this is not for dps, i chose to do it for dmg per 3 secs (WMS + mirror is 1.5 secs/full SS is 3 secs/RS full channel + swing is 2.5 secs)
did not use <tab> at any point
did not have student of the sword feat
did not have destroyer equipted
used weapon master for the tests on the crits only
i added WMS swings and mirrors together and counted them as 1 then divided by the number of swings (due to no swing = no mirror)
SS totals were divided by 4 then calculated (due to the 4th hit doing more dmg then 1st 3)
RS calcs were more difficult due to having to take out any that i jumped the gun on and didnt get full charge and the ones that i waited too long and didnt hit while the WMS buff was up
both norm hits and crits follow this pattern
explanation:
st:
SS did more dmg than WMS but the difference was miniscule.
RS did more than WMS by about 10%
RS w/ feat did more than WMS by about 35%
aoe: (tested 3 targets)
RS did more than WMS by about 20%
these tests were on the dummies in the room with only 3 (right side as u walk in)
and while yes i know using dummies doesnt factor in defence, it gives a controlled baseline
dummies also negate armor pen, which can skew results, if you hit mobs with diff defence values
(yes, it has been stated that most mobs have a defence value of 22%, but it is just a rounded calculation. without knowing the exact %, the results will be skewed, even if just slightly)
well, time to get back on NW
edit: about the concern for lack of mobility when using RS, i personally use punishing charge to move out of the higher dmg zones. when hit, it immediately moves you, no wait for attack animation due to it breaking attack animation base. also a tip, if i know what the quality of player my dc is, i will stand in ground zones than continuously do dmg as the low constant dmg does generate determination and when combined with the passive increase to determination while charging RS, the determionation gain per dmg taken is actually higher than any other combination. (just standing in it while keeping RS charging and not letting it go, i went from empty to full determination in about 15 secs which = about 1/3 my hp pool(while taking a 20k hit with RS up nets u still only about 50% of the bar which is the max value for 1 source of dmg) usually by doing this i am able to pop <tab> within 3-4 secs of it dropping, which nets less dmg taken overall.
(by playing this way, ive been told that dungeon are alot easier to heal, due to less healing required per fight (also was told that CN's difficulty dropped by quite a bit when i ran it with the same guildy dc)
I'm going to transplant my post from another thread and add some more detail
"I did some quick tests, 60 GWF, Destroyer, 9200 gs
spamming WMS was far more beneficial on three targets than sure strike (duh) and even reaping strike (with and without WMS weaved in). The only thing that compared was Wicked Strike with WMS weaved in (WMS spam edging it out so very slightly). WMS spam and Wicked Strike with WMS weaved in were very close.
Interestingly, spamming WMS vs spamming Sure Strike with WMS weaved in, on a single target, was very close(with WMS not weaved in being less than WMS spam).
So, to reiterate:
Single target: Sure Strike with WMS weaved in
Multi-target(2+): WMS spam.
edit: no usage of unstoppable, not sure if that changes anything "
I have rank 1 lightning enchant on my sword (procs off both WMS swings), Steel Blitz and Steadfast Determination. I also have Student of the Sword. The numbers I was getting were from a DPS meter, rather than trying to calculate it myself. I didn't spend long enough or do them enough to consider these end-all answers, but WMS over WMS+RS seemed pretty clear cut. I'm curious as to if you have lightning enchant and steel blitz in the test, which could add for quite a bit on WMS over RS.
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mandragore139Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
I would like to see what you say after you try it some more. I'm sorry, but the charge time reduces the amount of enemies you're striking. In two epic runs today my team needed me to be slaughtering adds, and reaping kind of slows down the process, like significantly. Waste of time.
Well RS, seems to benefit greatly from unstoppable -> in therms of casting time. Its still not what I would call valid, but it might be dmg wise. (note that if you start rs 0,5 secs before unstoppable runs out, the quick cast stays until you unleash your rs.)
However if you can't cast your RS you won't do dmg, which is still the killer argument.
BTW, talking about lag and casting times, since all server are located in the US the latency for non US players are not exactly perfect. Especially for an action focused game like this one. This becomes very clear when you try to cast 2x rs in a row. But it also has a negative effect on GWF evading skill, especially if you consider our long casting times and that we don't have a "real" doge skill.
Its very noticeable if I compare it to my CW, your basically untouchable vs melees with your doge. In boss-fights its the same deal...
On this matter SS has a huge advantage, since its casting times gives you more reaction time for evasive maneuvers, which is a must for us GWF due to our handicap "doge"skill.
However, as you could read from my "whine" post (does someone have cheese for me?) above all this become irrelevant when you encounter boss fights that not made for melees...
edit: Concering WMS + RS rotation, at least with my ping only WMS RS WMS RS... makes sense, because if I try to cast WMS RS RS, the debuff runs out by the time the 2end RS hits.
edit2: I have to say, WMS + RS is pretty awesome if you practice it a bit and skill the 25% dmg to single-target. As stated above, you can't do WS RS RS, just WS RS, if the situation allows it. RS is a lot easier to cast while being unstoppable, and the overall dmg gain is definitely noticeable. In dungeons my RS can hit single targets for up to 16k - debuffed mobs not dummys.
So far my setup is Punishing Charge (mostly for mobility), Flourish, and IBS, mostly for additional single-target dmg. (IBS can hit more then one target though, and i'm still considering to switch Flourish for something more useful). My GS is now 9,7 the dmg is more competitive then before. However RS needs practice, as does T2.
Comments
(i am destroyer spec right now)
aoe= WMS<RS
st= WMS<SS<RS<RS w/ executioner's style feat
these tests were done with the WMS buff up
i tested for 10mins each and took the avg for the duration
also this is not for dps, i chose to do it for dmg per 3 secs (WMS + mirror is 1.5 secs/full SS is 3 secs/RS full channel + swing is 2.5 secs)
did not use <tab> at any point
did not have student of the sword feat
did not have destroyer equipted
used weapon master for the tests on the crits only
i added WMS swings and mirrors together and counted them as 1 then divided by the number of swings (due to no swing = no mirror)
SS totals were divided by 4 then calculated (due to the 4th hit doing more dmg then 1st 3)
RS calcs were more difficult due to having to take out any that i jumped the gun on and didnt get full charge and the ones that i waited too long and didnt hit while the WMS buff was up
both norm hits and crits follow this pattern
explanation:
st:
SS did more dmg than WMS but the difference was miniscule.
RS did more than WMS by about 10%
RS w/ feat did more than WMS by about 35%
aoe: (tested 3 targets)
RS did more than WMS by about 20%
these tests were on the dummies in the room with only 3 (right side as u walk in)
and while yes i know using dummies doesnt factor in defence, it gives a controlled baseline
dummies also negate armor pen, which can skew results, if you hit mobs with diff defence values
(yes, it has been stated that most mobs have a defence value of 22%, but it is just a rounded calculation. without knowing the exact %, the results will be skewed, even if just slightly)
well, time to get back on NW
edit: about the concern for lack of mobility when using RS, i personally use punishing charge to move out of the higher dmg zones. when hit, it immediately moves you, no wait for attack animation due to it breaking attack animation base. also a tip, if i know what the quality of player my dc is, i will stand in ground zones than continuously do dmg as the low constant dmg does generate determination and when combined with the passive increase to determination while charging RS, the determionation gain per dmg taken is actually higher than any other combination. (just standing in it while keeping RS charging and not letting it go, i went from empty to full determination in about 15 secs which = about 1/3 my hp pool(while taking a 20k hit with RS up nets u still only about 50% of the bar which is the max value for 1 source of dmg) usually by doing this i am able to pop <tab> within 3-4 secs of it dropping, which nets less dmg taken overall.
(by playing this way, ive been told that dungeon are alot easier to heal, due to less healing required per fight (also was told that CN's difficulty dropped by quite a bit when i ran it with the same guildy dc)
RS will do 1500 on average and crit for over 3k....
So my basic play is this I run up tap WMS to debuff, start charging reaping strike, let it go, tap WMS again. I'm at the pirates, what doesn't die after the first RS dies with the next WMS usually. If RS crits everythings dead....Obviously some of the midlevels take more, trappers, mages, those big things cant remember the name....
Also when I do that my unstoppable bar fills up in about 3 seconds.....
Well I do, at least on paper, got to respec and test it more in the field. WMS + RS might be a killer combo - aleast for pve.
on a side note, I'm wondering about constitution focus - does it only buff hp or does it give armor pen as well?..
I was trying out my WMS + RS build which preformed okay i guess. Not overwhelming since I was basically toe to toe with the GF, who had in my defense the better gear. (I'm running around with pvp gear...)
In short, I wouldn't say that RS was particular good or bad, just that i might need a bit more practice with it and don't force my self to rotate it.
The dungeon itself is a masterpiece of pain for melees - especially if you got no real evade and log casting times - yay. Since the boss itself and every 3rd add casts a knock-back attack not to mention the almost one-hit attack from the boss.
So in a nutshell, I realized again that live as a melee is fun...
... so when was the eta for the ranger class again
Correct me if I'm wrong, I tried this to see, but doesn't switching from WMS to WS after one strike reduce the stacks you were building up? Has to, because aside from feeling like I was doing something cool when the rhythm was down, I noticed a decrese in damage output.
Try it in 60 epics or PvP, then come back to me.
I would like to see what you say after you try it some more. I'm sorry, but the charge time reduces the amount of enemies you're striking. In two epic runs today my team needed me to be slaughtering adds, and reaping kind of slows down the process, like significantly. Waste of time.
I'm going to transplant my post from another thread and add some more detail
"I did some quick tests, 60 GWF, Destroyer, 9200 gs
spamming WMS was far more beneficial on three targets than sure strike (duh) and even reaping strike (with and without WMS weaved in). The only thing that compared was Wicked Strike with WMS weaved in (WMS spam edging it out so very slightly). WMS spam and Wicked Strike with WMS weaved in were very close.
Interestingly, spamming WMS vs spamming Sure Strike with WMS weaved in, on a single target, was very close(with WMS not weaved in being less than WMS spam).
So, to reiterate:
Single target: Sure Strike with WMS weaved in
Multi-target(2+): WMS spam.
edit: no usage of unstoppable, not sure if that changes anything "
I have rank 1 lightning enchant on my sword (procs off both WMS swings), Steel Blitz and Steadfast Determination. I also have Student of the Sword. The numbers I was getting were from a DPS meter, rather than trying to calculate it myself. I didn't spend long enough or do them enough to consider these end-all answers, but WMS over WMS+RS seemed pretty clear cut. I'm curious as to if you have lightning enchant and steel blitz in the test, which could add for quite a bit on WMS over RS.
Well RS, seems to benefit greatly from unstoppable -> in therms of casting time. Its still not what I would call valid, but it might be dmg wise. (note that if you start rs 0,5 secs before unstoppable runs out, the quick cast stays until you unleash your rs.)
However if you can't cast your RS you won't do dmg, which is still the killer argument.
BTW, talking about lag and casting times, since all server are located in the US the latency for non US players are not exactly perfect. Especially for an action focused game like this one. This becomes very clear when you try to cast 2x rs in a row. But it also has a negative effect on GWF evading skill, especially if you consider our long casting times and that we don't have a "real" doge skill.
Its very noticeable if I compare it to my CW, your basically untouchable vs melees with your doge. In boss-fights its the same deal...
On this matter SS has a huge advantage, since its casting times gives you more reaction time for evasive maneuvers, which is a must for us GWF due to our handicap "doge"skill.
However, as you could read from my "whine" post (does someone have cheese for me?) above all this become irrelevant when you encounter boss fights that not made for melees...
edit: Concering WMS + RS rotation, at least with my ping only WMS RS WMS RS... makes sense, because if I try to cast WMS RS RS, the debuff runs out by the time the 2end RS hits.
edit2: I have to say, WMS + RS is pretty awesome if you practice it a bit and skill the 25% dmg to single-target. As stated above, you can't do WS RS RS, just WS RS, if the situation allows it. RS is a lot easier to cast while being unstoppable, and the overall dmg gain is definitely noticeable. In dungeons my RS can hit single targets for up to 16k - debuffed mobs not dummys.
So far my setup is Punishing Charge (mostly for mobility), Flourish, and IBS, mostly for additional single-target dmg. (IBS can hit more then one target though, and i'm still considering to switch Flourish for something more useful). My GS is now 9,7 the dmg is more competitive then before. However RS needs practice, as does T2.