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Don't let poor writing bring down your quest!
aggropotato
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 114 Bounty Hunter
It pains me to see otherwise well-designed quests and smart plots not achieve their full potential because of poor writing.
Here are some friendly pointers:
1. The reader has neither the time nor patience for long rambling essays in the context of a computer game. Especially in the context of a computer game.
2. Keep your paragraphs and sentences short. Two to three sentences per paragraph is the max you could go before knocking your players unconscious with the dreaded Wall of Text.
3. If you must have long info dumps, break it up into more manageable chunks with simple player responses such as "Go on", [You nod], etc.
4. Keep it simple. 'Get' instead of 'retrieve'; 'happy' instead of 'ecstatic', 'help' instead of 'assist'. Unless of course you intentionally want your character to sound formal and/or pompous.
5. Read what you've written aloud. If it sounds stilted and unnatural, it probably is.
6. Nothing smacks of sloppiness more than typos and grammatical errors. Proofread, proofread, proofread.
Let's make better quests!
Here are some friendly pointers:
1. The reader has neither the time nor patience for long rambling essays in the context of a computer game. Especially in the context of a computer game.
2. Keep your paragraphs and sentences short. Two to three sentences per paragraph is the max you could go before knocking your players unconscious with the dreaded Wall of Text.
3. If you must have long info dumps, break it up into more manageable chunks with simple player responses such as "Go on", [You nod], etc.
4. Keep it simple. 'Get' instead of 'retrieve'; 'happy' instead of 'ecstatic', 'help' instead of 'assist'. Unless of course you intentionally want your character to sound formal and/or pompous.
5. Read what you've written aloud. If it sounds stilted and unnatural, it probably is.
6. Nothing smacks of sloppiness more than typos and grammatical errors. Proofread, proofread, proofread.
Let's make better quests!
Post edited by aggropotato on
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I totally agree with you. I hate it when NPCs sound formal and pompous. Telling me how to do things, as if they are somehow better than me. Nothing turns me off more.
NW-DMIME87F5
Awaiting a serious response from the developers on the abuse of the review system by other authors.
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One other thing... if you are trying to give your characters an accent, dialect, or other quirk, don't overdo it. A hint of colloquial text here and there is enough to imply an accent or affectation. Our brains will fill in the rest as we read. You don't need to recreate every literal sound of an accent or affectation in every single word; that just becomes incredibly annoying to read.
Aye, that is true. I've toned down the goblin-speak in The Goblin King in response to feedback
Rules are made to be broken, with more experienced writers
Whenever I got a wall of text to write, I tend to make it optional. I want my quest line to be quick. Some players just want to know what to do and where to go. Some others care about the story. So I just make a quick depop/pop and create another "info" NPC to be the one who will give optional background to the player (with escape options everytime).
Interactible objects such as books, statues, ... are a good way to give lore options to the player.
The idea is to give the player the option to get into the story, but not forcing him.
Maybe a little bit off topic... Do you know a good software to check for english? Not being a native speaker, I know I sometimes use sentences that, even if grammaticaly correct, feel a little bit unnatural... But maybe the best would be to find a native speaker friend to check for it...
Thx,
PS: not a native speaker, so sorry for mistakes...
You are expressing yourself perfectly well! Unfortunately, don't think any software can replace a human proof-reader and editor, especially when it comes to tone and 'natural-ness'.
One way to get better at it is to read more and write more!
Another trick is to read it out loud. Not in your head, but aloud. Listen to how it sounds and make changes accordingly.
This.
Thanks for the tips about writing, will give it a try!
I don't expect perfect grammar when I walk into a Foundry quest. Sure, I'd be pleasantly surprised, but there are definitely more important things on the priority list. I believe it's all about choice. This is an RPG after all. The more choice you give your players, the better they feel. Now, we're not exactly given many options with the Foundry to expand on that. It's designed for more linear quests, but we can add the illusion of choices. If you add correct spelling and punctuation, NPCs that don't seem like cardboard cutouts, and try to think outside the box, there's not much chance of going wrong.
A Friendly Reminder (NW-DAQN7H5GO) - Short, solo, story-driven quest.
I also don't use DM text because personally I think reading DM text is kind of boring. It's awesome hearing a DM explain scenery during a real Pen and Paper session but text just doesn't do it for me. I feel like I should be able to capture that feeling from text alone and let the player use their imagination, instead of just telling them exactly what to visualize.
In the end though I've learned a lot. In my next quest I'll be spending more time on dialogue and even optional objects to identify that contribute to the story. People seem to like that stuff. Might even throw in a bit of DM text if I think it will help.
By @Stebss
Short Code: NW-DM900IFHK
Although I see where your coming from here, and clearly for the majority of people this is true, however for me the opposite is true. I hate simplistic dialogue with little to no depth, unless the story really hooks me, or the character itself has demanded this, I tend to find I quickly loose interest and either then skip dialogue or loose interest altogether. I admit I am almost certainly in the minority, however for myself personally when I want a story or a role-play quest a part of me wishes, perhaps a very unrealistic part of me, for an approaching level of quality of dialogue I would find in most published novels. This is partly because although I do play games, I spend more time reading than I do playing (again something I know which makes me different to a vast majority of players).
You are probably right most of the time, and consequently I am not expecting a huge amount of plays, or people who like my Foundry campaign (which I am currently working on), but I am mostly creating this for my own enjoyment and the few others who want to play it as well so I don't really mind.
I have not played your quest yet, but it is on my list to play (sadly I do not always have much time to play at the moment) and I am looking forward to playing it
@delthanin I shall play your quest, when I have the time. I am sure it is fine, I also love to have as many choices to pick from, if nothing else it definitely adds re-play value and any chance to actually role play my character is a definite big plus in my books (finding a good Foundry quest with many choices is quite hard I have found).
Interestingly, most of the greatest modern literature out there is written in a simple way. Good writers know that fancy language gets in the way of the message you're trying to tell. In fact, this is something that keeps being repeated in writing guides I've come across. The last thing you want as an author is for the reader to notice you. The reader should be so absorbed in your story that he never notices the author standing behind it. Once the reader runs into an unusual word that is unexpected or he has to consider in some way, he starts noticing the illusion you've created.
To drastically oversimplify the issue, I find that the quality of writing is often inversely proportional to how fancy the grammar is. Once words like "crimson" and "loins" start popping up with any regularity, you know you're dealing with a hack author.
Edit: Forgot to mention a good example of the whole "simple writing" thing. A very typical thing when writing dialogue is to use all kinds of descriptive word for how something is being said, when simply writing "he/she said" is what you really should do. Examples:
"I'd rather not," he replied. <- This is fine.
"I'd rather not," he elucidated. <- This is horrible. The reader will stumble and wonder what the heck is going on.
"I'd rather not," he said. <- This is perfect.
"I'd rather not," he eja.culated. (ignore the dot. Had to use it to avoid the filter) <- You'll see this very often in the Sherlock Holmes novels. Try reading it without conjuring up dirty images in your head. I dare you! This particular example illustrates one of the risks of being too fancy.
This is all in my opinion however, and thanks for the nice discussion
WIP
Only if it's worth reading, in my opinion. If your quest doesn't really focus on story, writing dialogue for dialogue's sake probably isn't a good idea. A basic dungeon crawl, for example, doesn't need fancy dialogue.
"So, nice weather we're having today."
"Yup."
"I heard they're having sales on swords down by the market today."
"I guess. Mine works just fine."
"I was about to ask if you wanted to play some dice, but I think I left them at home."
"Too bad. I really wanted to play dice."
"I hate dice! Now you must DIE!"
That works for me.
WIP
No worries, the Goblin King will wait. However, if you're looking for depth or story, my quest might not meet your expectations.
It's just a light and breezy dungeon romp
Every response in my quest leads to a reaction, and a difference in the quest. NPC's who are insulted don't offer the same help as those who are treated kindly, etc. In the end that is the part that has bothered me the most in some of the UGC I've run. You choose a dialog options and it simply ends the interaction and forces you to start over with that same NPC and pick the other option. Authors really need to consider how that may be a standard in RPGs but it is completely immersion breaking and very hamfisted because you basically FORCE the player to play a part not to role-play their character. If your dialog feels like a script with a few bad lines that make the player start the scene over then it is poorly written. And that my friends is from a self admitted poor writer.
However, in general I find giving the player even a few different options and ways of playing it makes a quest much more enjoyable, and repeatable.
Do you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with cheese in Amn?
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7