So let me get this straight, the basic argument is that "bosses are doable" if you have a "decent group" and you have to build said group. Otherwise you're up ****screek?
Pretty much so; at least in the currently most advanced dungeons.
Remember that this game was originally designed to be a co-op, where it is assumed from the start that it would be regular teams assaulting the dungeon delves.
Normally, what will happen is T2.5, or T3 will be introduced, and T2 will be made less demanding.
Pretty much though, always expect the highest tier to require the best gears, with co ordinated 5 player teams; at which point they might seem impossible for more casually oriented players with random grouping to clear. It really comes down to teamwork being the most important aspect; even if all 5 players are very good, but don't work together, they will probably fail.
Think of it this way. Suppose a mid boss fight encounter requires all 5 players to do specific tasks to beat. 1 player is trailing behind, and the lead initiates the battle before the 5th man catches up. The party wipes. It was a teamwork failure, even if all 5 players are perfectly well geared and know class/encounter mechanics very well.
This made me lol pretty hard. Why you ask? Because my guild clears Castle Never all the time with 1 cleric and either a GWF or a GF. Sometimes both.
I heard if you wanted access to all of the endgame regardless of skill the games on OMGPOP are right up your alley.
Thank you for your helpful reply, please explain how you do this without knocking the mobs off the edge, with the group with one of every class? Post a video, something I would like to see it, and I am sure a lot of other people would too.
Sigh I just got trolled and took hook line and sinker.
Thank you for your helpful reply, please explain how you do this without knocking the mobs off the edge, with the group with one of every class? Post a video, something I would like to see it, and I am sure a lot of other people would too.
Sigh I just got trolled and took hook line and sinker.
First show me where does it say knocking the mobs off the edge is an exploit.
Class stacking was always there. For example, if an encounter requires highest dps possible (rage, infinite adds etc) ppl will take top dps classes/ppl in the guild to that raid. Or if it's a movement heavy fight, healers must be mobile, so we don't need long-casting-bomb-heals. We need a running HoTer.
The point is - there's an optimal group composion and unless a GWF/GF is your friend - there's no point taking them with you. Don't blame people, blame Cryptic.
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swedishtrexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
First show me where does it say knocking the mobs off the edge is an exploit.
How about the fact they are patching the fricking instance everytime to try avoiding you people doing it ?
so yes all you double cw singularity lift push groups are exploiting cheezing cheaters.
so yes all you double as cleric cheeze groups are exploiting an obvious <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> code, you are infact ruining the game for everyone else.
stop making out like any of the two occurences above is the normal, how the game should be played or the devs intentions they are simply players abusing the living <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of everything they can as usual due to the mmo population being more degenerate than even shooters. It will be fixed given enough time but the question is if there is enough legitimate non cheeze, non creep players left by then because the people abusing it now wont stick around for it.
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kaltxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
My group can clear every content now except Dracolich in CN which we honestly didn't try yet. We run all 5 diff classes. We don't need to push mobs over edges. We started out with pvp gear and went into t2 immediately. So I don't know why is this thread even here.
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chewy067Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Okay, so I've now played in three dungeon delves where the final boss is so overpowered and broken that the party can't defeat it. Not only is it set up that if the party is killed off and has to respawn the boss gets all of it's health back (which is BS), but an already overpowered boss gets dozens of mobs. This isn't acceptable. It is making part of the game pointless and unplayable. Where is the scaling?
Second problem: why aren't any of the previous missions from lower levels that aren't completed unavailable to be completed at later levels? What's the point of leveling if we can't finish the quest's we've started?
Its easy ive beat ever epic. My tip is find a guild and build a start. Thats how professional plowers did it
I surely hope they fix these boss fights... having a boss that is impossible to kill without a very specific group composition is just lazy coding in my opinion.
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swedishtrexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
My group can clear every content now except Dracolich in CN which we honestly didn't try yet. We run all 5 diff classes. We don't need to push mobs over edges. We started out with pvp gear and went into t2 immediately. So I don't know why is this thread even here.
it is for the fact that cn dracolich especially but even some other bosses are extremly hard (like last spider one unless your overgeared) unless you run special parties. Yes we beaten the fights with a one of each class group to (excluding dracolich) but it is alot harder, frustrating and feels extremly unbalanced compared to the lame 2as cleric groups or double cw groups.
Try doing spider with 2 gwf's..
Try doing troll with 2 gf's..
there is such a hug discrepency in the games classes atm its not even funny, it shows through the SLOPPY encounter design, horrible class balance and OBVIOUS bugs and exploits (stacking as..realy ?)
I am thinking the game is borderline saveable still but most people who left wont come back even if it turns all good and class balance is so extremly important its not even funny.
how is knocking enemies off the edge an exploit i mean really? it's not like they can't do the same to you, or that if you were an actual person in this world that you would do that anyway. That's not an exploit that's just smart stradegy. Now i'm totally not saying that stacking AS isn't completely broken, i went in with a group today against karrundax with 3 clerics from the random que and we could have beaten him with kittens as our DPS, but i again do not find this as being an exploit for this reason. Again were you to be actual adventurers in this world and you had to clerics concentrating on the same spell in the same spot would it not be a stronger spell? OF COURSE IT WOULD! so quit calling it an exploit when it's an actual plausible stradegy. If you don't think **** is possible to beat look it up vids on youtube there are groups beating these dungeons all the time. yes teh queing system makes for random *** parties that sometimes don't work, but thats why u make friend on here and learn how to coordinate with them so u can beat these dungeons and have fun doing it.
As usual, when the team fails, it's a crowd control failure. Healing isn't hard once this is done, but you need a very good CW not focusing on his dps score (which is extremely rare).
Invisible walls placed there for a reason, forget your cheesy-2DC-unskilled-key smashing-non-dodge mind and learn how to play your class right. I have seen so many unskilled people that farmed foundary to 60 and 2Dc all the way and have no idea how to play their class and deal with Boss fight. I'm a GF and my regular party contains 2CW, 1DC and 1TR we cleared everything expect CN last boss. I never had any problem holding arrgo. Come to Dragon I will show you how it's done without 2DC. GG
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jvilnisaustMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
I am a casual player that came over from the MMO that shouldn't be named and I had no where near the same problems with dungeon runs in it compared to this game's bosses.
Final bosses should be challenging but the higher level bosses in the dungeons have been almost impossible to defeat without overgeared players.
After wiping 4 times on Mad Dragon I have decided to forgo dungeon delves as I was not having fun with them.
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aenamyenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Drow boss is downright ridiculous. You either need to roll 2DC and 3TR or 2DC and 3 CW to even stand a chance.
Thats not true. 2 CW, 1 Cleric, 1 rogue and 1 GF beat her last night. Also beat her with same set up the night before but with a rogue instead of the second CW. Also the second CW died before drider phase and we still won. Your rogue has to get the big dot rolling on her, stop using knockbacks on the blademasters because the charge they do will kill you. Its a tough fight but once you get in the door, and the spiders dead , its not that bad to find and keep your rhythm. My only problem was getting t1 gloves from the chest when we killed her =(
haha this is an MMO, my friend. Since when is spending hours to acquire the gear necessary to defeat the content anything but expected? And try tweaking your strategies, contrary to popular belief, not every boss fight can be beaten the exact same way.
Unfortunately if they dont nerf the content they will lose players. Because the hardcore will be gone shortly because theres nothing to do at 60 after your geared, and casuals wont bother if they feel the dungeons are too hard to take advantage of the delves. Skirmishes are a joke they dont give decent loot, foundries while fun again arent worthwhile because they dont have a chance for chests, prof nodes and the end chest is just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> most of the time. They need to add mechanics to a boss fight not spam adds because we are too brain dead to think of anything truely original. But it is PWE we are talking about so I wouldnt expect them to actually read anything about the creatures they are using as a boss or do anything that doesnt involve players spending money.
So many noobs here...
All dungeons are doable, you need to KNOW your classes, you need at least 1 rogue, 1 cleric and 1 control wizard, remaining slots replace at will, but these 3 are mandatory. Rest is about coordination and specifically to the OP:
NO you will NOT go beyond 80% of any boss if you don't cc and kill adds, your cleric is a cleric, not another boss that heals you, you need to take care of him, if you want to zerg boss, stay at level 19 and below and play cloak tower.
First of all i agree with you on the grouping and making sure you have the classes needed to control adds and what not, but the lack of actual strategy in boss fights is ridiculous. Every dungeon i have ran whether it be t1 or t2 is just a boss with tons of health and to many adds to even deal with. For those of you who know what I'm talking about you have probably sat there killing adds for 10 minutes after the boss is downed... its sad and downright aggravating to where i don't want to pve which is the reason i am playing the game in the first place.
Probably need better gear. I was in a group yesterday that killed spider last boss in around 3 minutes. All the dungeons in this game are easy... Yes including castle never last boss, in terms of difficulty that one is like one of those pvp bosses in wow.
Okay so I'm going to break this down.
1) You need a tested group that you know how to work with to defeat the dungeon delves.
2) You need the best gear possible to do so.
3) So many people have beaten all of the dungeons (supposedly) but offer no actual tips on how to do this other than crowd control and healing (which is done anyways and still fails miserably for most of us).
4) If we can't beat the bosses then either a) we don't know how to play our characters (BS), b) we don't have good enough team work (also BS), or c) we don't have good enough gear to beat the guys (also BS).
Essentially the only argument given is to protect the game rather than acknowledging that there could be a very big problem in game design here.
Most people who play this game don't WANT a group play, they want to do this on their own. Mainly because people in games like this are flakey and dungeon delves take forever to get into if you don't have a good guild with good members to work with. Secondly, the really good drops are never for your class so you have to waste more time getting astral diamonds using a poorly constructed system to either buy them from vendors or on the exchange which is overly inflated (again, same problem in STO). Fact is, the game is problem riddled and doesn't cater its self to the average player. Every boss I've ever played against in this game drops blues and purples for guardian fighter or cleric never my rogue class. Every blue or purple I have for my rogue right now I've purchased. The game has failed scaling and needs to be redone to fit the general player. Dungeon delves, in my opinion, need to be aimed towards the individual player with a scaling per group size. Not set to a given scale for five players only and then over powered to the extent that it's nearly impossible if not holy impossible to complete.
3) So many people have beaten all of the dungeons (supposedly) but offer no actual tips on how to do this other than crowd control and healing (which is done anyways and still fails miserably for most of us).
There have been at least 4 replyes with DETAILED INFORMATIONS about how to kill the boss. It is not our fault if you purposedly ignore them. This alone would be enough to point out how full of "BS" you are.
I think the T2 bosses summon waaaaaaay too many adds. I play games to have fun, not to be swearing at the screen so much that I'd make a sailor blush. If there was at least a freaking SHORT break even between adds it wouldn't be so bad but the way it currently is, is ridiculous.
I have only been playing this game for a few days ... i have beat every dungeon i have played so far ... save for one ... we needed more multi-target damage ... the mobs for the boss spawned way to fast ... and one player quit the dungeon right after it started ...
the bosses should be a challenge ... it should be noted that i have only died in a couple of dungeons ...
as it was previously stated ... your problem must be a gear thing ...
also ... i do not spend money on free to play games ...
We have multi-target damage in the form of a well specced GWF. Problem is, groups keep on kicking the class as soon as they come on board.
No other class has the multi-target dps output of a properly specced GWF. Stop kicking them until you see what they can (or cannot) do folks!!
How about the fact they are patching the fricking instance everytime to try avoiding you people doing it ?
so yes all you double cw singularity lift push groups are exploiting cheezing cheaters.
so yes all you double as cleric cheeze groups are exploiting an obvious <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> code, you are infact ruining the game for everyone else.
stop making out like any of the two occurences above is the normal, how the game should be played or the devs intentions they are simply players abusing the living <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of everything they can as usual due to the mmo population being more degenerate than even shooters. It will be fixed given enough time but the question is if there is enough legitimate non cheeze, non creep players left by then because the people abusing it now wont stick around for it.
I agree on the fact that Cleric astral shield is not intended, however i disagree on the KB still. You say they are patching everytime to fix that, i say, when? they have never done that beside spider boss, and the only reason they did that on spider was due to 1 shotting the boss by suiciding, not due to knocking the mobs off.
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rama07Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
I think the T2 bosses summon waaaaaaay too many adds. I play games to have fun, not to be swearing at the screen so much that I'd make a sailor blush. If there was at least a freaking SHORT break even between adds it wouldn't be so bad but the way it currently is, is ridiculous.
Again, I would point to the comment I made above. I think the GWF class is underused in groups (from my admittedly limited experience and from what I've been reading up on). I don't think their multi-target dps capabilities are fully actualized and realized by the majority who do play them either. Game's still in its infancy stage though. I expect tweaks aplenty, along with class guides, that are sure to help.
Comments
Remember that this game was originally designed to be a co-op, where it is assumed from the start that it would be regular teams assaulting the dungeon delves.
Normally, what will happen is T2.5, or T3 will be introduced, and T2 will be made less demanding.
Pretty much though, always expect the highest tier to require the best gears, with co ordinated 5 player teams; at which point they might seem impossible for more casually oriented players with random grouping to clear. It really comes down to teamwork being the most important aspect; even if all 5 players are very good, but don't work together, they will probably fail.
Think of it this way. Suppose a mid boss fight encounter requires all 5 players to do specific tasks to beat. 1 player is trailing behind, and the lead initiates the battle before the 5th man catches up. The party wipes. It was a teamwork failure, even if all 5 players are perfectly well geared and know class/encounter mechanics very well.
Thank you for your helpful reply, please explain how you do this without knocking the mobs off the edge, with the group with one of every class? Post a video, something I would like to see it, and I am sure a lot of other people would too.
Sigh I just got trolled and took hook line and sinker.
First show me where does it say knocking the mobs off the edge is an exploit.
The point is - there's an optimal group composion and unless a GWF/GF is your friend - there's no point taking them with you. Don't blame people, blame Cryptic.
How about the fact they are patching the fricking instance everytime to try avoiding you people doing it ?
so yes all you double cw singularity lift push groups are exploiting cheezing cheaters.
so yes all you double as cleric cheeze groups are exploiting an obvious <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> code, you are infact ruining the game for everyone else.
stop making out like any of the two occurences above is the normal, how the game should be played or the devs intentions they are simply players abusing the living <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of everything they can as usual due to the mmo population being more degenerate than even shooters. It will be fixed given enough time but the question is if there is enough legitimate non cheeze, non creep players left by then because the people abusing it now wont stick around for it.
Its easy ive beat ever epic. My tip is find a guild and build a start. Thats how professional plowers did it
it is for the fact that cn dracolich especially but even some other bosses are extremly hard (like last spider one unless your overgeared) unless you run special parties. Yes we beaten the fights with a one of each class group to (excluding dracolich) but it is alot harder, frustrating and feels extremly unbalanced compared to the lame 2as cleric groups or double cw groups.
Try doing spider with 2 gwf's..
Try doing troll with 2 gf's..
there is such a hug discrepency in the games classes atm its not even funny, it shows through the SLOPPY encounter design, horrible class balance and OBVIOUS bugs and exploits (stacking as..realy ?)
I am thinking the game is borderline saveable still but most people who left wont come back even if it turns all good and class balance is so extremly important its not even funny.
Final bosses should be challenging but the higher level bosses in the dungeons have been almost impossible to defeat without overgeared players.
After wiping 4 times on Mad Dragon I have decided to forgo dungeon delves as I was not having fun with them.
Thats not true. 2 CW, 1 Cleric, 1 rogue and 1 GF beat her last night. Also beat her with same set up the night before but with a rogue instead of the second CW. Also the second CW died before drider phase and we still won. Your rogue has to get the big dot rolling on her, stop using knockbacks on the blademasters because the charge they do will kill you. Its a tough fight but once you get in the door, and the spiders dead , its not that bad to find and keep your rhythm. My only problem was getting t1 gloves from the chest when we killed her =(
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
Unfortunately if they dont nerf the content they will lose players. Because the hardcore will be gone shortly because theres nothing to do at 60 after your geared, and casuals wont bother if they feel the dungeons are too hard to take advantage of the delves. Skirmishes are a joke they dont give decent loot, foundries while fun again arent worthwhile because they dont have a chance for chests, prof nodes and the end chest is just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> most of the time. They need to add mechanics to a boss fight not spam adds because we are too brain dead to think of anything truely original. But it is PWE we are talking about so I wouldnt expect them to actually read anything about the creatures they are using as a boss or do anything that doesnt involve players spending money.
First of all i agree with you on the grouping and making sure you have the classes needed to control adds and what not, but the lack of actual strategy in boss fights is ridiculous. Every dungeon i have ran whether it be t1 or t2 is just a boss with tons of health and to many adds to even deal with. For those of you who know what I'm talking about you have probably sat there killing adds for 10 minutes after the boss is downed... its sad and downright aggravating to where i don't want to pve which is the reason i am playing the game in the first place.
1) You need a tested group that you know how to work with to defeat the dungeon delves.
2) You need the best gear possible to do so.
3) So many people have beaten all of the dungeons (supposedly) but offer no actual tips on how to do this other than crowd control and healing (which is done anyways and still fails miserably for most of us).
4) If we can't beat the bosses then either a) we don't know how to play our characters (BS), b) we don't have good enough team work (also BS), or c) we don't have good enough gear to beat the guys (also BS).
Essentially the only argument given is to protect the game rather than acknowledging that there could be a very big problem in game design here.
Most people who play this game don't WANT a group play, they want to do this on their own. Mainly because people in games like this are flakey and dungeon delves take forever to get into if you don't have a good guild with good members to work with. Secondly, the really good drops are never for your class so you have to waste more time getting astral diamonds using a poorly constructed system to either buy them from vendors or on the exchange which is overly inflated (again, same problem in STO). Fact is, the game is problem riddled and doesn't cater its self to the average player. Every boss I've ever played against in this game drops blues and purples for guardian fighter or cleric never my rogue class. Every blue or purple I have for my rogue right now I've purchased. The game has failed scaling and needs to be redone to fit the general player. Dungeon delves, in my opinion, need to be aimed towards the individual player with a scaling per group size. Not set to a given scale for five players only and then over powered to the extent that it's nearly impossible if not holy impossible to complete.
There have been at least 4 replyes with DETAILED INFORMATIONS about how to kill the boss. It is not our fault if you purposedly ignore them. This alone would be enough to point out how full of "BS" you are.
We have multi-target damage in the form of a well specced GWF. Problem is, groups keep on kicking the class as soon as they come on board.
No other class has the multi-target dps output of a properly specced GWF. Stop kicking them until you see what they can (or cannot) do folks!!
I agree on the fact that Cleric astral shield is not intended, however i disagree on the KB still. You say they are patching everytime to fix that, i say, when? they have never done that beside spider boss, and the only reason they did that on spider was due to 1 shotting the boss by suiciding, not due to knocking the mobs off.
Again, I would point to the comment I made above. I think the GWF class is underused in groups (from my admittedly limited experience and from what I've been reading up on). I don't think their multi-target dps capabilities are fully actualized and realized by the majority who do play them either. Game's still in its infancy stage though. I expect tweaks aplenty, along with class guides, that are sure to help.