mirariftMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
I couldn't get past the "Greed" part of the post....since when is "greed" a selfish option? That rogue didn't "Need" and for some strange reason received the item over a "need" roll. There is nothing wrong with greed rolls on any items, it's the most fair roll. However, I see 3 social problems here....
1. Your wife had no business rolling need when she did not need that item for herself.
2. When you politely (I'm assuming) requested the item from rogue she had the choice to do the honorable thing and give it to you, and chose not to,
3. I think what the other two members of the group did the best choice for a person like that, and that was leaving the group, which you and you wife should have done instead of fighting with her about it, cause we all know she knows how she behaved.
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platinumtemplarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
Chances are the OP probably picked GREED as well. Either way, in any other MMO, this system works the same. NEED will always win GREED.
Also, the entire point of rolling GREED is to sell/trade the item. There is a reason why it is called "GREED" in the first place! So i don't see why anyone can moan about others rolling greed on everything. If you want to make money from a dungeon run, then that's what you do. NEED is there if you -really- want something, so there is no reason to feel offended by people rolling GREED the whole time. Now people rolling NEED the whole time, yes, that is a different story.
Players are already complaining about all the trash mobs they need to wade through, without any real reward, to get to the boss. And now people expect everyone to PASS on all items? What happens when everyone PASS?
The only reason i pass on alot of stuff is because i simply don't have inventory space for all the belts and amulets that constantly drop (i always seem to notice a distinct lack of weapons and specific armor pieces dropping , but a flood of belts and amulets). Usually they're also identical after you have one.
The fact that almost 99% of all items that drop is not identified, hence you can't see any STATS is also making this a big hassle. Now everyone is going to roll at minimum greed and even need on everything, even though they already have 5 identical belts in their inventories (they just don't know it yet).
Anyhow, i think the OP's letter is unfortunately starting off with a very controversial and most likely erroneous statement about Greed/Need rolling (which is a standard MMO mechanic ) and thus the rest of the letter is not getting any attention. The sooner the OP corrects this, or at least not try to assume everyone here is idiots for disagreeing, the better the odds the rest of the letter will get attention.
Also maybe just to illustrate how this NEED/GREED/PASS works:
If 4 people roll GREED, 1 person roll NEED. The 1 person rolling NEED will always win,the 4 GREED rollers are ignored (no matter what they roll!)
If 2 people roll GREED, 2 people roll NEED . The 2 GREED rollers are ignored, highest NEED roll win.
If everyone rolls NEED, the highest roller gets item
If everyone rolls GREED, the highest roller gets item
If 3 people rolls GREED, 1 person PASS , the highest GREED roller gets the item.
If 1 person rolls GREED, 4 people rolls NEED. The GREED roller is ignored, highest NEED roller wins.
So in short, GREED and NEED is never mixed. If there's any NEED rollers, all other GREED/PASS rollers are IGNORED, always. NEED > GREED > PASS
Usually if everyone PASS, then the person who initially picked up the item will get it (not sure what NW does, but that's what other MMOs do).
If Cryptic somehow messed this rather global standard accepted format up, then i would be VERY surprised, since this is how STO and Champions Online also works.
I'm confused by the last post. If I rolled greed 99 and you rolled need 1. I should win because I have the higher number.
No, that's exactly the entire point. Your GREED will always lose. The NEED person will win, no matter what. So if you see someone rolling NEED on everything, the only way to counter that is to also roll NEED. Rolling GREED when you're in a group with a loot ninja (someone who rolls NEED on anything) is pointless, you will never win anything.
So knowing this, this is why it is really frowned upon when people roll NEED on items they don't actually need, because you , the nice person, rolled GREED and thus will never win anything.
In other MMOs they tend to restrict who can roll NEED, usually based on your class (so the NEED button is disabled on items you can't use). More recent MMOs went a simpler, less aggravating route and just give everyone their own personal loot , so no rolling on each other's loot.
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praematuraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited June 2013
The OP cares. That's the point, he is a paying customer that sees all the potential but is voicing his concerns to avoid further collapse of the games goodwill. The people that post concerns like the OP paid money, so they want it to continue. Flaming him discourages others from offering constructive criticism.
If you look at the Star Trek MMO Cryptic runs you will see identical frustrations years ago that remain unaddressed. Now those same bugs, like the auction house exploit was around since 2010 in that other MMO. All Perfect Worlds MMOs use the identical same software, which is actually the leading edge in China. Cryptic is a private company but do a search about either investing in PW stock and you will see a lot of info on Cryptic (their US subsidiary) in terms of how they address these issues.
Actually I consider the rogue class an assassin rather than a typical thief like character. As for the game balance issues, yes this is an issue...not nearly as much as in DDO which is blatantly and disturbingly flawed. Other issues are traps and uninvolved trapping system, this is very unDnD like.
I personally have mixed reactions to the encounter difficulties that warrant concern. I cannot believe how insanely difficult the dungeons are for supposed adequate level ranges. Yet other areas are primarily easy or mid-grade difficulty experiences.
Class progression; no matter who disagrees is wrong IT IS WAY TOO FAST!!
The NWO community is generic and for the most part tossable.....not all mind you are flawed in the sense that they don't respect others and greed this and that, but the general populace is not interested in partying, working together in a friendly manner in order to enjoy the company and make it more appealing by being fun and cooperative. This is the core mechanics of DnD and any that don't like that pinnacled structure of Dungeons and dragons should play other games as there are plenty.
Being a DM/player for 30+years I know the guidelines, the policies and how every angle is/has been incorporated and implemented in the one of the greatest games created for us to enjoy. I don't idolize D&D; I just enjoy it for what it is.
The OP cares. That's the point, he is a paying customer that sees all the potential but is voicing his concerns to avoid further collapse of the games goodwill. The people that post concerns like the OP paid money, so they want it to continue. Flaming him discourages others from offering constructive criticism.
If you look at the Star Trek MMO Cryptic runs you will see identical frustrations years ago that remain unaddressed. Now those same bugs, like the auction house exploit was around since 2010 in that other MMO. All Perfect Worlds MMOs use the identical same software, which is actually the leading edge in China. Cryptic is a private company but do a search about either investing in PW stock and you will see a lot of info on Cryptic (their US subsidiary) in terms of how they address these issues.
Great point on the paying customer and the fact he actually tried to make his post constructive. It is the kind of post the devs SHOULD read as opposed to the bulk that usually say something like "you suck" lol.
He may or may not be right about losing the NEED roll to the GREED roll but who are you to say hes wrong?? I mean after all yes the code is written so that is not supposed to happen but in case you haven't noticed some of the code is flawed at times.
Comments
1. Your wife had no business rolling need when she did not need that item for herself.
2. When you politely (I'm assuming) requested the item from rogue she had the choice to do the honorable thing and give it to you, and chose not to,
3. I think what the other two members of the group did the best choice for a person like that, and that was leaving the group, which you and you wife should have done instead of fighting with her about it, cause we all know she knows how she behaved.
Also, the entire point of rolling GREED is to sell/trade the item. There is a reason why it is called "GREED" in the first place! So i don't see why anyone can moan about others rolling greed on everything. If you want to make money from a dungeon run, then that's what you do. NEED is there if you -really- want something, so there is no reason to feel offended by people rolling GREED the whole time. Now people rolling NEED the whole time, yes, that is a different story.
Players are already complaining about all the trash mobs they need to wade through, without any real reward, to get to the boss. And now people expect everyone to PASS on all items? What happens when everyone PASS?
The only reason i pass on alot of stuff is because i simply don't have inventory space for all the belts and amulets that constantly drop (i always seem to notice a distinct lack of weapons and specific armor pieces dropping , but a flood of belts and amulets). Usually they're also identical after you have one.
The fact that almost 99% of all items that drop is not identified, hence you can't see any STATS is also making this a big hassle. Now everyone is going to roll at minimum greed and even need on everything, even though they already have 5 identical belts in their inventories (they just don't know it yet).
Anyhow, i think the OP's letter is unfortunately starting off with a very controversial and most likely erroneous statement about Greed/Need rolling (which is a standard MMO mechanic ) and thus the rest of the letter is not getting any attention. The sooner the OP corrects this, or at least not try to assume everyone here is idiots for disagreeing, the better the odds the rest of the letter will get attention.
Also maybe just to illustrate how this NEED/GREED/PASS works:
If 4 people roll GREED, 1 person roll NEED. The 1 person rolling NEED will always win,the 4 GREED rollers are ignored (no matter what they roll!)
If 2 people roll GREED, 2 people roll NEED . The 2 GREED rollers are ignored, highest NEED roll win.
If everyone rolls NEED, the highest roller gets item
If everyone rolls GREED, the highest roller gets item
If 3 people rolls GREED, 1 person PASS , the highest GREED roller gets the item.
If 1 person rolls GREED, 4 people rolls NEED. The GREED roller is ignored, highest NEED roller wins.
So in short, GREED and NEED is never mixed. If there's any NEED rollers, all other GREED/PASS rollers are IGNORED, always. NEED > GREED > PASS
Usually if everyone PASS, then the person who initially picked up the item will get it (not sure what NW does, but that's what other MMOs do).
If Cryptic somehow messed this rather global standard accepted format up, then i would be VERY surprised, since this is how STO and Champions Online also works.
No, that's exactly the entire point. Your GREED will always lose. The NEED person will win, no matter what. So if you see someone rolling NEED on everything, the only way to counter that is to also roll NEED. Rolling GREED when you're in a group with a loot ninja (someone who rolls NEED on anything) is pointless, you will never win anything.
So knowing this, this is why it is really frowned upon when people roll NEED on items they don't actually need, because you , the nice person, rolled GREED and thus will never win anything.
In other MMOs they tend to restrict who can roll NEED, usually based on your class (so the NEED button is disabled on items you can't use). More recent MMOs went a simpler, less aggravating route and just give everyone their own personal loot , so no rolling on each other's loot.
If you look at the Star Trek MMO Cryptic runs you will see identical frustrations years ago that remain unaddressed. Now those same bugs, like the auction house exploit was around since 2010 in that other MMO. All Perfect Worlds MMOs use the identical same software, which is actually the leading edge in China. Cryptic is a private company but do a search about either investing in PW stock and you will see a lot of info on Cryptic (their US subsidiary) in terms of how they address these issues.
I personally have mixed reactions to the encounter difficulties that warrant concern. I cannot believe how insanely difficult the dungeons are for supposed adequate level ranges. Yet other areas are primarily easy or mid-grade difficulty experiences.
Class progression; no matter who disagrees is wrong IT IS WAY TOO FAST!!
The NWO community is generic and for the most part tossable.....not all mind you are flawed in the sense that they don't respect others and greed this and that, but the general populace is not interested in partying, working together in a friendly manner in order to enjoy the company and make it more appealing by being fun and cooperative. This is the core mechanics of DnD and any that don't like that pinnacled structure of Dungeons and dragons should play other games as there are plenty.
Being a DM/player for 30+years I know the guidelines, the policies and how every angle is/has been incorporated and implemented in the one of the greatest games created for us to enjoy. I don't idolize D&D; I just enjoy it for what it is.
Great point on the paying customer and the fact he actually tried to make his post constructive. It is the kind of post the devs SHOULD read as opposed to the bulk that usually say something like "you suck" lol.
He may or may not be right about losing the NEED roll to the GREED roll but who are you to say hes wrong?? I mean after all yes the code is written so that is not supposed to happen but in case you haven't noticed some of the code is flawed at times.