For the 10 millionth time, I wish they'd just drop Astral Shield to a much lower level. 25 or less, so that people don't feel so shafted in the first 49 levels. lol
I agree with those sentiments. While I do think it's possible to get through to 50 with the abilities we have 1-50, I don't think that they have done a good job at designing the progression of abilities. In my opinion, a good design would be to introduce the abilities which Devoted Clerics use the most at the earliest possible level so that they will have the longest possible time to learn the best way to use those abilities before they reach level cap. Then, along the way to 60, introduce other various abilities that are used less often but are very useful in some situations.
Astral Shield is the most notable case. It is not an exaggeration to call it a game changing ability or a class defining ability: it is used by literally every cleric in literally every dungeon/skirmish as soon as they have access to it. And yet clerics do not receive this ability until level 50. Some have said they wish we received Astral Shield at level 25, 20, 15, even 10. I think we should receive it at level 4: I think we should receive it as soon as the tutorial is over. I think Astral Shield is such an essential part of what a Devoted Cleric is in Neverwinter that they just aren't a Devoted Cleric until they receive it. As many have stated, I think it's just a very bad design to force players to play through 50 levels before they receive it.
Should just remove those crappy divine at wills, and make one Astral Shield and the other Astral Seal lol.
I hate mandatory abilities in slots that are supposed to be customizable. So just make them mandatory in that fashion.
I agree with those sentiments. While I do think it's possible to get through to 50 with the abilities we have 1-50, I don't think that they have done a good job at designing the progression of abilities. In my opinion, a good design would be to introduce the abilities which Devoted Clerics use the most at the earliest possible level so that they will have the longest possible time to learn the best way to use those abilities before they reach level cap. Then, along the way to 60, introduce other various abilities that are used less often but are very useful in some situations.
Astral Shield is the most notable case. It is not an exaggeration to call it a game changing ability or a class defining ability: it is used by literally every cleric in literally every dungeon/skirmish as soon as they have access to it. And yet clerics do not receive this ability until level 50. Some have said they wish we received Astral Shield at level 25, 20, 15, even 10. I think we should receive it at level 4: I think we should receive it as soon as the tutorial is over. I think Astral Shield is such an essential part of what a Devoted Cleric is in Neverwinter that they just aren't a Devoted Cleric until they receive it. As many have stated, I think it's just a very bad design to force players to play through 50 levels before they receive it.
Thank you cwiyk13 and I agree that this power needs to be much lower on the tree. I know I was nerd raging but it kills me that I have played a cleric since pen and paper and come to this game and feel that I am a mini-mage with healing like abilities. I am sure things will get balance in the wash. It just feels like a slap in the face for those of us that love the healer class.
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ulotolhadoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm just curious, for the folks that think Cleric's healing is so poor, could you describe how your group plays?
I've noticed that when groups just stand there trying to tank'n'spank and get chewed up by easy to dodge attacks, it can be hard to keep up with the heals. I also see a lot of folks that only use the high dps skills and then complain the situation got out of hand.
Any wizard or rogue complaining about your heals isn't doing a good job moving his butt out of the way of attacks. Don't give me that aggro non-sense. We know they don't have aggro cause the cleric picks that up asap. Not to mention they have plenty of control spells if they bother to equip and use them.
The aggro situation does need some sort of tweaking. All in all though, I quite like the action based mechanics. If they turn this into another trinity-based game, I'll likely stop playing. There are already plenty of those. We don't need yet another one.
I'm just curious, for the folks that think Cleric's healing is so poor, could you describe how your group plays?
I actually feel like our healing is incredible (my group plays amazingly!). However, I still feel like clerics need to get access to the MAIN cleric skill (Astral Shield) way before 50. Just my 2c.
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mlownzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
I actually feel like our healing is incredible (my group plays amazingly!). However, I still feel like clerics need to get access to the MAIN cleric skill (Astral Shield) way before 50. Just my 2c.
Agreed! Need to have our main heal way before 10 levels before we max out
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weeatdimsumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm a cleric and I have to disagree with getting Astral Shield earlier than 50. 45 maaayyyyyybe, but that's still pushing it some imo. Pre-Astral Shield, I didn't have any problems healing my party. Then again, I generally played with friends, so maybe that's why? I actually never touched Forgemaster's Flame until I was 60 (haha i know...) but Healing Word and Astral Seal always did the trick for us. We were able to tackle all the content on level and in less than optimal gear.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
They could switch Astral shield around with Bastion of health, most people would not notice it and be fairly happy with it.
However without knowing what they plan to do with new paragon paths and class balance changes, things may change drastically, as we do not have our healing paragon path yet, and its not much of a stretch of the imagination to assume that it will focus on bastion of health and healing word.
If the new paragon class adds a passive that reduces cooldowns on healing skills by say 15/20/25% flat before recovery effects it would be a huge game changer. of course this is all assumptions and guesses! Bastion of health on base value of 15s and healing word on 11.2s cooldown would be rather interesting. If they then fix healing word to be effected by cooldown reduction our healing would increase dramatically and would change a lot of things in game.
Can't wait for a pure healing Paragon path either, Mewbrey
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jobistoneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
33 cleric here, did mad Dragon twice last night and had no issue keeping other group members alive. The main problem for me was the adds getting through and killing me.
Is it just a case of kiting and waiting for cw to burn them down?
33 cleric here, did mad Dragon twice last night and had no issue keeping other group members alive. The main problem for me was the adds getting through and killing me.
Is it just a case of kiting and waiting for cw to burn them down?
More or less. Keeping the rest of the group alive is rarely hard, as they don't get a 40% nerf to heals on them- the problem is keeping yourself alive, as none of the threat reduction talents seem to work. Any mob that isn't actually being whaled upon in a serious manner goes right for the cleric.
A dps spamming AoE does help quite a lot, though. If you have AoE-happy DPS, kiting mobs over them seems to help.
lvl 34 cleric here... did Mad Dragon 3 times so far. 1st two times was a fail because no one bothered to keep the adds off me. 3rd time, with ppl pulling the adds off it was a cakewalk. I actually really like the class. Its totally different than any other heal class I have had, but that's what makes it fun. There are definitely some issues that need to be worked out, but overall I am happy so far at 35.
The aggro is fine, the boses just need to hit for more so actual a tank would be needed to keep away the big bad guy from doing nasty things to the group. Its the controllers job to keep away adds off your cleric. And this is from a cleric perspective, please dont reduce my job to only stay in the back and heal.
big fan of Shaman in Warhammer Online, also enjoyed healing in Rift
in those 2 mmos I could actually be useful as a healer in PvE and PvP even at level 10
I could instant heal, heal over time, group heal and cast protective shields
here I am level 17 and I have the worst healing skills ever
no protective shields
and my damage is laughable (which would be fine if I could heal - because that's what I want to do anyway)
it's basically Astral Seal every enemy in range (which seems totally useless), Lance them (laughable damage), try to get enough points to cast Guardian of Faith or Hallowed Ground (which I can do so rarely that I fell like I'm not contributing)
I'm constantly dazed, stunned, frozen or flailing around suspended in the air
why call a class Cleric - "Devoted Healer" when that is the farthest thing from what it is ?
might as well call it the "Cleric - <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> healing skills, and can't do what when dazed" class
the random PvP teams I've been on have done really well,
won 4 out of 5 today, 5 out of 8 yesterday
but I don't feel like a healer, I feel like a very, very weak mage
probably reroll a Control Wizard
or more likely probably go back and do the free trial of War
really have no interest in doing this till level 30 and hoping it gets better
but from all the forum posts I've read, it doesn't
So you're lvl 17 and you're not feeling powerfull enough mhm ok then .
i enjoy playing the cleric class in this game..... i just hate how other people think about healers.... or know what a healer in neverwinter is. usually a partymate only dies if he's not a tank and soloing far from my heal range or a squishee class that loves to tank the boss power-attacks
I've read Deistik's Critical Cleric build post before looking at this one, and he puts it plain and simple. Clerics are not built for burst healing. They are here to give you the extra hit points you need to survive long enough to dodge and/or use a potion.
This actually is the new wave of MMO healing.
Since the addition of the dodge and full blocks, players shouldn't need burst healing anymore. Also, you get plenty of healing potions (which you can use your game currency to buy instead of AD or zen), and they are on a 15 second CD vice 1 minute like other games.
I see the devoted cleric as a buff class with a little healing to help others to the next potion or dodge. Astral Seal on enemies, toss a Bastion of Health every now and then, and if things get hairy you can always throw up Divine Shield (the daily that increases defense and gives temp hit points).
Also, you get plenty of healing potions (which you can use your game currency to buy instead of AD or zen), and they are on a 15 second CD vice 1 minute like other games.
In other games, healing classes don't need pots.
And what other games exactly? 1 minute CD? I know of a game that has pots with 1s CD, I know of another game that has pots with 3m CD, another one that has opts with 30s CD. So well, our pots are fine except that a healing class shouldn't be the one using them the most.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I want this class in NW.
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codewizardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I've read Deistik's Critical Cleric build post before looking at this one, and he puts it plain and simple. Clerics are not built for burst healing. They are here to give you the extra hit points you need to survive long enough to dodge and/or use a potion.
This actually is the new wave of MMO healing.
Since the addition of the dodge and full blocks, players shouldn't need burst healing anymore. Also, you get plenty of healing potions (which you can use your game currency to buy instead of AD or zen), and they are on a 15 second CD vice 1 minute like other games.
I see the devoted cleric as a buff class with a little healing to help others to the next potion or dodge. Astral Seal on enemies, toss a Bastion of Health every now and then, and if things get hairy you can always throw up Divine Shield (the daily that increases defense and gives temp hit points).
I agree completely with this gent. YouTube UnspecifiedHealer. He too has taken inspiration from Deistic's build, and his take on it inspired my build which is a kind of hybrid of the two. Works really well for me. UnspecifiedHealer (user UnspecifiedError on these forums) explains all of his reasoning so you can draw your own conclusions. I found his videos very helpful. I did struggle with the having to use pots a bit thing, but the only time I need to pop them now is in epic dungeons.
Personally, I don't mind helping out lower level players get through, because I know it's tough alone. If you see a Cleric named Tyric, hit him up - he'll (I'll) come and help you guys out :-)
Cleric doesn't have that strong heals cause they don't need it. First of all, you shouldn't be judging a class when you're lvl 17. And second, healers work diffrent here. You basicly cast heals to get aggro, then you kite the adds of bosses while maintaining a good healing on your group. It's not like WoW where you can heal someone from 5 % up to 100% in a second.
Comments
Should just remove those crappy divine at wills, and make one Astral Shield and the other Astral Seal lol.
I hate mandatory abilities in slots that are supposed to be customizable. So just make them mandatory in that fashion.
Thank you cwiyk13 and I agree that this power needs to be much lower on the tree. I know I was nerd raging but it kills me that I have played a cleric since pen and paper and come to this game and feel that I am a mini-mage with healing like abilities. I am sure things will get balance in the wash. It just feels like a slap in the face for those of us that love the healer class.
I've noticed that when groups just stand there trying to tank'n'spank and get chewed up by easy to dodge attacks, it can be hard to keep up with the heals. I also see a lot of folks that only use the high dps skills and then complain the situation got out of hand.
Any wizard or rogue complaining about your heals isn't doing a good job moving his butt out of the way of attacks. Don't give me that aggro non-sense. We know they don't have aggro cause the cleric picks that up asap. Not to mention they have plenty of control spells if they bother to equip and use them.
The aggro situation does need some sort of tweaking. All in all though, I quite like the action based mechanics. If they turn this into another trinity-based game, I'll likely stop playing. There are already plenty of those. We don't need yet another one.
I actually feel like our healing is incredible (my group plays amazingly!). However, I still feel like clerics need to get access to the MAIN cleric skill (Astral Shield) way before 50. Just my 2c.
However without knowing what they plan to do with new paragon paths and class balance changes, things may change drastically, as we do not have our healing paragon path yet, and its not much of a stretch of the imagination to assume that it will focus on bastion of health and healing word.
If the new paragon class adds a passive that reduces cooldowns on healing skills by say 15/20/25% flat before recovery effects it would be a huge game changer. of course this is all assumptions and guesses! Bastion of health on base value of 15s and healing word on 11.2s cooldown would be rather interesting. If they then fix healing word to be effected by cooldown reduction our healing would increase dramatically and would change a lot of things in game.
Is it just a case of kiting and waiting for cw to burn them down?
More or less. Keeping the rest of the group alive is rarely hard, as they don't get a 40% nerf to heals on them- the problem is keeping yourself alive, as none of the threat reduction talents seem to work. Any mob that isn't actually being whaled upon in a serious manner goes right for the cleric.
A dps spamming AoE does help quite a lot, though. If you have AoE-happy DPS, kiting mobs over them seems to help.
So you're lvl 17 and you're not feeling powerfull enough mhm ok then .
This actually is the new wave of MMO healing.
Since the addition of the dodge and full blocks, players shouldn't need burst healing anymore. Also, you get plenty of healing potions (which you can use your game currency to buy instead of AD or zen), and they are on a 15 second CD vice 1 minute like other games.
I see the devoted cleric as a buff class with a little healing to help others to the next potion or dodge. Astral Seal on enemies, toss a Bastion of Health every now and then, and if things get hairy you can always throw up Divine Shield (the daily that increases defense and gives temp hit points).
In other games, healing classes don't need pots.
And what other games exactly? 1 minute CD? I know of a game that has pots with 1s CD, I know of another game that has pots with 3m CD, another one that has opts with 30s CD. So well, our pots are fine except that a healing class shouldn't be the one using them the most.
I want this class in NW.
I agree completely with this gent. YouTube UnspecifiedHealer. He too has taken inspiration from Deistic's build, and his take on it inspired my build which is a kind of hybrid of the two. Works really well for me. UnspecifiedHealer (user UnspecifiedError on these forums) explains all of his reasoning so you can draw your own conclusions. I found his videos very helpful. I did struggle with the having to use pots a bit thing, but the only time I need to pop them now is in epic dungeons.
Personally, I don't mind helping out lower level players get through, because I know it's tough alone. If you see a Cleric named Tyric, hit him up - he'll (I'll) come and help you guys out :-)