I think you may be playing down the power of TR just a little.
First off, THEY GO INVISIBLE, denying anyone any sort of damage while they approach. Every other class suffers at least some damage while they approach an objective, but not TR. Hell, I know that the skill is supposed to be used to flank enemies, but it's never used for that. It's for getting in without taking damage, and for disengaging without taking any damage. TRs take waaay less damage than most GFs, and pretty much any GWFs if they have half a brain.
In addition to just disappearing and becoming more or less untargetable, THEY CAN NINJA ****ING DODGE EVERYTHING WITH JUST A PRESSS OF A BUTTON. Granted, most other classes also have a dodge mechanic (GWFs are so OP they don't get one), but no other class also just ****ing disappears into thin air. Combining these two defensive techniques can make any decent TR pretty much invincible.
Remember what I said about using invisibility to approach cap points? Well, I've noticed that the first skill used is generally A MOTHER****ING LINGERING, DAMAGING, SLOWING AOE DISABLE. **** CWs with their single-target stun-locks, a TR can easily shut down anyone on top of the cap point and then proceed to murder them viciously, all the while remaining relatively safe since their poor opponents cannot fight back, or even sprint out of the slowing effect (remember what I said about GWFs having no dodge? Yeah, they can't sprint out of that slow either [which is supposedly the only real benefit to sprinting {escaping slowing effects}])
Now, on to the actual role of a TR: single-target burst damage. Boy, are they great at bursting down enemy squishies. And tanks. And off-tanks, especially. In most other traditional RPGs (and I use the term "traditional" loosely), the damage-dealing rogue is generally pretty squishy, but has some nice tricks to take down those pesky bosses. Some use a single-target burst skill that deals some nice damage, but there's always a flaw: it tends to take some time to set up, and it won't usually kill the boss outright. Neverwinter saw this problem, and decided the most rational solution was to give TRs a ****ING MASSIVE NUKE THAT DEALS ADDITIONAL DAMAGE DEPENDING ON HOW BADLY YOU JUST ****ED THAT TARGET UP, WHILE BLATANTLY IGNORING ANY DEFENSE THEY BUILT.
Remember our good pal, the GWF? Yeah, well turns out they can get an additional 25-50% damage resistance with their tab skill. Unfortunately for them, the TR just plain doesn't give a ****. He'll just **** the GWF's defense and make sure that 25-50% resistance is all he's got, essentially rendering that tab skill worthless.
Speaking of Unstoppable and control immunities, well, turns out that the TR does it better. Remember that little skill called Courage Breaker? Yeah, it just ignores the GWF's ignoring of control effects. Plus, TRs are actually Impossible to Catch as well. It's essentially the same thing as a GWF's Unstoppable, but better since you get an automatic 50% damage resistance via deflection (which actually works better).
I think you may be playing down the power of TR just a little.
First off, THEY GO INVISIBLE, denying anyone any sort of damage while they approach. Every other class suffers at least some damage while they approach an objective, but not TR. Hell, I know that the skill is supposed to be used to flank enemies, but it's never used for that. It's for getting in without taking damage, and for disengaging without taking any damage. TRs take waaay less damage than most GFs, and pretty much any GWFs if they have half a brain.
In addition to just disappearing and becoming more or less untargetable, THEY CAN NINJA ****ING DODGE EVERYTHING WITH JUST A PRESSS OF A BUTTON. Granted, most other classes also have a dodge mechanic (GWFs are so OP they don't get one), but no other class also just ****ing disappears into thin air. Combining these two defensive techniques can make any decent TR pretty much invincible.
Remember what I said about using invisibility to approach cap points? Well, I've noticed that the first skill used is generally A MOTHER****ING LINGERING, DAMAGING, SLOWING AOE DISABLE. **** CWs with their single-target stun-locks, a TR can easily shut down anyone on top of the cap point and then proceed to murder them viciously, all the while remaining relatively safe since their poor opponents cannot fight back, or even sprint out of the slowing effect (remember what I said about GWFs having no dodge? Yeah, they can't sprint out of that slow either [which is supposedly the only real benefit to sprinting {escaping slowing effects}])
Now, on to the actual role of a TR: single-target burst damage. Boy, are they great at bursting down enemy squishies. And tanks. And off-tanks, especially. In most other traditional RPGs (and I use the term "traditional" loosely), the damage-dealing rogue is generally pretty squishy, but has some nice tricks to take down those pesky bosses. Some use a single-target burst skill that deals some nice damage, but there's always a flaw: it tends to take some time to set up, and it won't usually kill the boss outright. Neverwinter saw this problem, and decided the most rational solution was to give TRs a ****ING MASSIVE NUKE THAT DEALS ADDITIONAL DAMAGE DEPENDING ON HOW BADLY YOU JUST ****ED THAT TARGET UP, WHILE BLATANTLY IGNORING ANY DEFENSE THEY BUILT.
Remember our good pal, the GWF? Yeah, well turns out they can get an additional 25-50% damage resistance with their tab skill. Unfortunately for them, the TR just plain doesn't give a ****. He'll just **** the GWF's defense and make sure that 25-50% resistance is all he's got, essentially rendering that tab skill worthless.
Speaking of Unstoppable and control immunities, well, turns out that the TR does it better. Remember that little skill called Courage Breaker? Yeah, it just ignores the GWF's ignoring of control effects. Plus, TRs are actually Impossible to Catch as well. It's essentially the same thing as a GWF's Unstoppable, but better since you get an automatic 50% damage resistance via deflection (which actually works better).
All I am going to say is boy you must really suck at this game......
So im going to run this real fast okay?
Firstly, You can see a stealth class IN STEALTH AND WE TAKE DAMAGE IN STEALTH. Pay attention to detail it will get you far.
my montage shows excactly how to spot rogues in stealth, there is no excuse to get opened by one if you arnt tunnel visioning spamming your buttons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTuOxmxG_gA
Secondly You are full of it by saying tr's take less damage than gwf's they hit me for 12k crits on my 9400 GS tr, and they can stunlock. I hope you play a GWF so i can tell you how bad you suck at this game. GWF's are in a really good place right now. They are actually one thing IM afraid of when someone knows how to play them. YOu can search a stunlock build on youtube im sure.
Thirdly, every class has a getaway, learn to use it, TR's greatest weakness is their mobility. Learn to keep on the move and you jsut completely **** on a TR.
Fourthly you are referring to smokebomb, and let me tell you something, if you cant use your fingers and walk out of the smokebomb than you have some really big issues and need to stick to PvE, Smokebomb doesnt do damage. It dazes, and if used while out of stealth it applies a slow while IN the smokebomb, all of its effects are while IN the smokebomb. If you walk out, OMG you jsut rendered the TR's Smokebomb useless!!!! Come watch my stream. I DO it ALL the time because it is just THAT easy to do. www.twitch.tv/desololive
fithly We are a damage dealing class, now let me tell you. If you stand still and let a rogue hit you and not try to get him off (Which is very easy, I do it all the time) than you have some issues and pvp is jsut not for you. TR's have to stop and attack to do damage, simply holding Forward for 1.5 seconds jsut countered their damage.
If you are reffering to shocking execution with your huge caps, I completely agree with you, the daily skill is broken which is why I dont use it in PvP and I am prolly the only one who does not use it in pvp.
sixthly did you know TR is the squishiest class in game? even more so than a CW? 1 cc and we are either dead or close to it. literally just 1 cc, no amtter a daze stun or root. Just one and if we cant dodge we are ****ed. So in conclusion, l2 use your cc's and you will HAMSTER on a rogue. I do it all the time, watch my stream. and if your tab skill is what turns you big and red? and immune to cc's? Just letting you know that is what I run away from because the gwf will **** on me if I stay. Courage breaker? Yes I do use it otherwise the gwf will kill me instantly without a chance.
Deflection sucks if it was any good I wouldnt get one shot by cw's 100 - 0 for 26k ice knifes.
In conclusion. PvP doesnt sound right for you. You sound lazy and liek you dont want to try because I have personally met and friended multiple classes including gwf's who took the time to learn to play and learn to counter rogues and completely **** on me sometimes. if you won't put in the effort to learn and jsut sit there letting a tr hit you of course you are going to get **** on. SO Instead of mongoloiding and spamming your abilities thinking you are king kong, take the time to actually pay attention to what is going on than you might become one of those very few who can actually **** on any tr because they know their weaknesses. I play a TR very well and I am rerolling because I know they will be unviable when people l2p. as bad as it sounds only good pvpers know this. Game mechanic wise TR's will be useless. I might make a little thread as to why and what counters them but than I wouldnt have any fun on my rogue. All I can say is that there are FAR SCARIER things in this game that you probably havent even experienced that I have. and let me tell you, boy oh boy TR is NOT one of them. and let me repeat myself, you would not even fricken believe. there is tanks that hit ahrder than me, gwf's and gf's that control better than me, and they are much tankier. The good ones are the ones that won't let me do anything. And it really sucks not being able to control your character because impossible to catch doesnt work when knocked down. So if you do play a gwf or gf. Knockdown lock spec will amke a rogue rage quit because they cant do anyhting till they die. LITERALLY its on my stream far worst things in this game. L2p
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darkami669Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
To be honest if the tr daily that one shots people were changed to not ignore defense, it would be much better and they would still do excellent damage.
The Problem with that ability is slow to charge up in pvp , I get 2 off in pvp maybe. It can be dodged easy with it's long animation time. CW daily does 75 % of that damage , and they will get it of 4 to 5 times a fight
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chinzw85Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
Im wondering if any of the people that complain about balance actually did some REAL testing?
DMG vs DEF, with same gear, etc... from what i can read is all "this TR 1 shot me, this GF has lots of burst!, the CW keeps me controled for ever! blah blah", go do some real testing, and then talk about balance. Even if you have both PVP set or T1 items, there's still a difference, do you have enchants? Does the other? Which ones? Etc ETC ETC!
Personally from my experience in pvp as cw TR IMO aren't op its really about who catches who first. I mean each class has its role. GF is the Tank distraction on point 2, GWF can replace GF if you want it, Cleric sits on point 2 and heals and guards, Control wizards support point 2, and TR runs between point 1 and 3 capping them and keeping the other team distracted while slaying.
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kiojikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 14Arc User
Blah blah blah blah. Didn't bother to read any of the posts because I already know what the complaint is.
1. CW, GF, GWF, and Cleric have a burst damage that is almost in par with TR's Shocking Executioner (A daily) if they decide to spec for it.
You want broken? The Cleric Blue Shield is broken because the only counter to that is to have 5 people jump on the cleric, but they just revive and come back and do it again. Having 5 people to jump any class to just be able to kill them is ludicrous.
As A Cleric - Hammer of Light I think its called, Daily can do 12k-15k. Besides that our damage is garbage. Also the bad thing about that Hammer is it is in 3 vollies so you can LOS and dodge them. I had a TR do it to me and it was not fun.
Last Night - PVP Match: I had Hallowed Ground Daily Up, Divine Astral Shield plus I have RankIII Foresight and a TR one shots me for 28.8K. My mouth dropped. Instead of crying about it, I asked I wonder what it took for him to do that? (Note: I was not a full health when it happened)
Was it a Daily, was it a debuff setup? Did he have to Sacrafice in other areas etc.,
What I didnt do, is come here and ask for him to be nerfed!! Honestly Im more pissed at myself I didnt have the Stam to dodge it.
As A Cleric - Hammer of Light I think its called, Daily can do 12k-15k. Besides that our damage is garbage. Also the bad thing about that Hammer is it is in 3 vollies so you can LOS and dodge them. I had a TR do it to me and it was not fun.
Last Night - PVP Match: I had Hallowed Ground Daily Up, Divine Astral Shield plus I have RankIII Foresight and a TR one shots me for 28.8K. My mouth dropped. Instead of crying about it, I asked I wonder what it took for him to do that? (Note: I was not a full health when it happened)
Was it a Daily, was it a debuff setup? Did he have to Sacrafice in other areas etc.,
What I didnt do, is come here and ask for him to be nerfed!! Honestly Im more pissed at myself I didnt have the Stam to dodge it.
You're a cleric, you shouldnt even be doing 12-15k dmg...
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kiojikMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
Its a Daily and like I said one of the vollies usually misses negating at least a 3rd of the damage. If you bring it thinking you are going to start DPSing, well, you dont play a Cleric because that just doesnt work regardless of the Daily.
Have I used it in a 1v1 situation, to make someone think twice, under the right circumstance, you better believe it.
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terrorshardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1. Shocking Execution cannot one shot people. It only does massive damage when the person ur hitting has <50% hp left.
2. Clerics shield is the only truly OP thing in the game.
3. CW is really hard for TR to kill if ur getting killed by TR constantly ur doing something very wrong.
4. GWF needs buff.
Good day to you all.
I agree with everything this man said.
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terrorshardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I also find it amusing that everyone 100% agrees that balance in an MMO is unachievable, but if anyone makes any comment about one class being too strong then the person gets ridiculed and told to l2p.
Shocking execution is the only thing ridiculous about TRs.
They to make it not ignore defenses unless the enemy is under 25% health. Then it would be fine.
CWs are way worse than TRs, I played on a 4 CW + cleric team and it was a stupidly easy win. The other team wasn't even bad. They just didn't have any chance against all that CC.
Yeah, if they're good. Do you know how much easier it is to be good as a CW? More dodges/sec, equal dps as TR but from distance, massive CC, insane procs, able to get AP outside of combat. The list goes on. THere is only 1 class that has way more perks than other classes atm, and that's CW.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Comments
First off, THEY GO INVISIBLE, denying anyone any sort of damage while they approach. Every other class suffers at least some damage while they approach an objective, but not TR. Hell, I know that the skill is supposed to be used to flank enemies, but it's never used for that. It's for getting in without taking damage, and for disengaging without taking any damage. TRs take waaay less damage than most GFs, and pretty much any GWFs if they have half a brain.
In addition to just disappearing and becoming more or less untargetable, THEY CAN NINJA ****ING DODGE EVERYTHING WITH JUST A PRESSS OF A BUTTON. Granted, most other classes also have a dodge mechanic (GWFs are so OP they don't get one), but no other class also just ****ing disappears into thin air. Combining these two defensive techniques can make any decent TR pretty much invincible.
Remember what I said about using invisibility to approach cap points? Well, I've noticed that the first skill used is generally A MOTHER****ING LINGERING, DAMAGING, SLOWING AOE DISABLE. **** CWs with their single-target stun-locks, a TR can easily shut down anyone on top of the cap point and then proceed to murder them viciously, all the while remaining relatively safe since their poor opponents cannot fight back, or even sprint out of the slowing effect (remember what I said about GWFs having no dodge? Yeah, they can't sprint out of that slow either [which is supposedly the only real benefit to sprinting {escaping slowing effects}])
Now, on to the actual role of a TR: single-target burst damage. Boy, are they great at bursting down enemy squishies. And tanks. And off-tanks, especially. In most other traditional RPGs (and I use the term "traditional" loosely), the damage-dealing rogue is generally pretty squishy, but has some nice tricks to take down those pesky bosses. Some use a single-target burst skill that deals some nice damage, but there's always a flaw: it tends to take some time to set up, and it won't usually kill the boss outright. Neverwinter saw this problem, and decided the most rational solution was to give TRs a ****ING MASSIVE NUKE THAT DEALS ADDITIONAL DAMAGE DEPENDING ON HOW BADLY YOU JUST ****ED THAT TARGET UP, WHILE BLATANTLY IGNORING ANY DEFENSE THEY BUILT.
Remember our good pal, the GWF? Yeah, well turns out they can get an additional 25-50% damage resistance with their tab skill. Unfortunately for them, the TR just plain doesn't give a ****. He'll just **** the GWF's defense and make sure that 25-50% resistance is all he's got, essentially rendering that tab skill worthless.
Speaking of Unstoppable and control immunities, well, turns out that the TR does it better. Remember that little skill called Courage Breaker? Yeah, it just ignores the GWF's ignoring of control effects. Plus, TRs are actually Impossible to Catch as well. It's essentially the same thing as a GWF's Unstoppable, but better since you get an automatic 50% damage resistance via deflection (which actually works better).
All I am going to say is boy you must really suck at this game......
So im going to run this real fast okay?
Firstly, You can see a stealth class IN STEALTH AND WE TAKE DAMAGE IN STEALTH. Pay attention to detail it will get you far.
my montage shows excactly how to spot rogues in stealth, there is no excuse to get opened by one if you arnt tunnel visioning spamming your buttons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTuOxmxG_gA
Secondly You are full of it by saying tr's take less damage than gwf's they hit me for 12k crits on my 9400 GS tr, and they can stunlock. I hope you play a GWF so i can tell you how bad you suck at this game. GWF's are in a really good place right now. They are actually one thing IM afraid of when someone knows how to play them. YOu can search a stunlock build on youtube im sure.
Thirdly, every class has a getaway, learn to use it, TR's greatest weakness is their mobility. Learn to keep on the move and you jsut completely **** on a TR.
Fourthly you are referring to smokebomb, and let me tell you something, if you cant use your fingers and walk out of the smokebomb than you have some really big issues and need to stick to PvE, Smokebomb doesnt do damage. It dazes, and if used while out of stealth it applies a slow while IN the smokebomb, all of its effects are while IN the smokebomb. If you walk out, OMG you jsut rendered the TR's Smokebomb useless!!!! Come watch my stream. I DO it ALL the time because it is just THAT easy to do. www.twitch.tv/desololive
fithly We are a damage dealing class, now let me tell you. If you stand still and let a rogue hit you and not try to get him off (Which is very easy, I do it all the time) than you have some issues and pvp is jsut not for you. TR's have to stop and attack to do damage, simply holding Forward for 1.5 seconds jsut countered their damage.
If you are reffering to shocking execution with your huge caps, I completely agree with you, the daily skill is broken which is why I dont use it in PvP and I am prolly the only one who does not use it in pvp.
sixthly did you know TR is the squishiest class in game? even more so than a CW? 1 cc and we are either dead or close to it. literally just 1 cc, no amtter a daze stun or root. Just one and if we cant dodge we are ****ed. So in conclusion, l2 use your cc's and you will HAMSTER on a rogue. I do it all the time, watch my stream. and if your tab skill is what turns you big and red? and immune to cc's? Just letting you know that is what I run away from because the gwf will **** on me if I stay. Courage breaker? Yes I do use it otherwise the gwf will kill me instantly without a chance.
Deflection sucks if it was any good I wouldnt get one shot by cw's 100 - 0 for 26k ice knifes.
In conclusion. PvP doesnt sound right for you. You sound lazy and liek you dont want to try because I have personally met and friended multiple classes including gwf's who took the time to learn to play and learn to counter rogues and completely **** on me sometimes. if you won't put in the effort to learn and jsut sit there letting a tr hit you of course you are going to get **** on. SO Instead of mongoloiding and spamming your abilities thinking you are king kong, take the time to actually pay attention to what is going on than you might become one of those very few who can actually **** on any tr because they know their weaknesses. I play a TR very well and I am rerolling because I know they will be unviable when people l2p. as bad as it sounds only good pvpers know this. Game mechanic wise TR's will be useless. I might make a little thread as to why and what counters them but than I wouldnt have any fun on my rogue. All I can say is that there are FAR SCARIER things in this game that you probably havent even experienced that I have. and let me tell you, boy oh boy TR is NOT one of them. and let me repeat myself, you would not even fricken believe. there is tanks that hit ahrder than me, gwf's and gf's that control better than me, and they are much tankier. The good ones are the ones that won't let me do anything. And it really sucks not being able to control your character because impossible to catch doesnt work when knocked down. So if you do play a gwf or gf. Knockdown lock spec will amke a rogue rage quit because they cant do anyhting till they die. LITERALLY its on my stream
The Problem with that ability is slow to charge up in pvp , I get 2 off in pvp maybe. It can be dodged easy with it's long animation time. CW daily does 75 % of that damage , and they will get it of 4 to 5 times a fight
DMG vs DEF, with same gear, etc... from what i can read is all "this TR 1 shot me, this GF has lots of burst!, the CW keeps me controled for ever! blah blah", go do some real testing, and then talk about balance. Even if you have both PVP set or T1 items, there's still a difference, do you have enchants? Does the other? Which ones? Etc ETC ETC!
Stop QQing
As A Cleric - Hammer of Light I think its called, Daily can do 12k-15k. Besides that our damage is garbage. Also the bad thing about that Hammer is it is in 3 vollies so you can LOS and dodge them. I had a TR do it to me and it was not fun.
Last Night - PVP Match: I had Hallowed Ground Daily Up, Divine Astral Shield plus I have RankIII Foresight and a TR one shots me for 28.8K. My mouth dropped. Instead of crying about it, I asked I wonder what it took for him to do that? (Note: I was not a full health when it happened)
Was it a Daily, was it a debuff setup? Did he have to Sacrafice in other areas etc.,
What I didnt do, is come here and ask for him to be nerfed!! Honestly Im more pissed at myself I didnt have the Stam to dodge it.
You're a cleric, you shouldnt even be doing 12-15k dmg...
Have I used it in a 1v1 situation, to make someone think twice, under the right circumstance, you better believe it.
I agree with everything this man said.
They to make it not ignore defenses unless the enemy is under 25% health. Then it would be fine.
CWs are way worse than TRs, I played on a 4 CW + cleric team and it was a stupidly easy win. The other team wasn't even bad. They just didn't have any chance against all that CC.