first: why are you only namin the control wizard here? other classes like rogues or great weapon fighter might have the same issue
getting surrounded by multiple high-damage attackers (in this case eight) and dying, is unfun.
second: if you are allowing multiple monsters to surround you without a plan how to deal with them, it is your fault that you die.
If this kept on happening,
third: this isnt something someone else could influence (most of the time), since after your last posts it seems you are pulling the monsters yourself.
I wouldnt play the Neverwinter game.
fine, then stop playing ^^
Look for something else thats enjoyable for you
Each of these posts is a separate event to report to the developers, who need to see the gravity and the frequency of the issue.
Massive aggro happens in rapid succession with the Control Wizard having no way to respond to multiple attackers.
If that is so, then how come others don't have that problem? i can take out 4-5 mobs at ease when soloing, and if i lure 2-3 more groups when attacking i adapt to the situation and i still manage to kill them all. Yes i do take some dmg, but not enough to get killed.
Xilly The Silly Dwarf of Eyrda :P
Waiting for a cool sig T.T
... i was in a group of three ... we ... we ... we ...
well, i think its a really good example of how a control wizard should be played IN A GROUP.
Everything in the quote above becomes irrelevant when it says "group".
My Controller Wizard is in a solo quest.
The Neverwinter game assumes solo quests. The gaming design for each control spell and for the Control Wizard as a whole, needs to work effectively in this context.
I still seriously have no such problems. You may say I've built a striker (which I didn't) but I'm starting to suspect that is your way of invalidating any advice.
I suspect you didn't build a control wizard - you built an intentionally limited character, focusing on flavor over function. You made choices, and you think the game should be easy regardless of the choices you make. You also don't want anyone to insinuate the problem could be how you're spacing yourself and engaging in the fights - using your player skill to help make up for your poor build choices.
I really did pipe in originally to help and participate in the conversation, because I'm a new player myself. Of course, I'm finding that the wizard is by far the easiest to manage and control aggro with so far, and the simplest to level because the class is a beast.
After your continued denial of advice, I think I see the writing on the wall - you're not looking for help, you're looking for some way to justify some changes you want to see made (that few others want or see a need for).
This is a game. While it is fairly difficult in this game to completely gimp your character, you may have. In addition, some characters may favor specific play styles, and this may be an area in which you're also inflexible.
Not sure if troll or not, but heck i'm bored at work so i'll bite.
I dont understand why you are dying that often.
I have lvl 60 wizard did all the content solo (except for dungeons) and only died twice while getting to 60.
Most of the content i did while being lower in level than the zone. My friends that play other classes have much more problems surviving and killing zone bosses than me as a CW.
When rolling with a cleric companion i find it actually hard to die and can manage very big groups without a problem.
Make sure you use items with power and enchantments with defense so the cleric will last longer coz in the last few zones he can die pretty quickly.
With the use of potions and a cleric companion as a pocket healer you really shouldn't be dying that often especially at that low level where i felt kinda invincible with a cleric companion.
I use Sudden storm in spell mastery , metoer thingy, icy terrain and the black hole thingy to AOE the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of big groups. The sudden storm does crazy *** dmg against all mobs and 1 shots the trash mobs. Icy terrain to freeze mobs and singularity to group them up. Later on meteor for even more CC.
Also the Dogde of the CW is the best of all classes you can teleport through mobs make sure to use it to your advantage.
So i really think you should evaluate your current build/playstyle coz dying so often as you describe is just not neccesary. All i can say always keep moving (Movement and posistioning are very important for a CW). CC the hell out of them groups, the aoe CC abilities you get for wizard are very good for PVE and should help alot in keeping you from dying. Your single target dmg kinda sucks but you make up for it with the crazy AOE dmg you get.
And like the previous poster i also believe the wizard is the easiest class to manage and control aggro with.
tbh if you're dying a lot as CW you're doing something wrong. Your build might be bad, you might suck at the game's mechanics (dodging/teleporting especially), your picked a bad companion or you aren't leveling him enough, or maybe you don't have enough pots or you aren't using enough. I don't know specifically why you could die while soloing CW. Something is horribly wrong though.
Everything in the quote above becomes irrelevant when it says "group".
My Controller Wizard is in a solo quest.
The Neverwinter game assumes solo quests. The gaming design for each control spell and for the Control Wizard as a whole, needs to work effectively in this context.
Sorry to say but Solo questing can be done blindfoulded, can 1shot group trash with basic green gear and basic skills, with some crowd control on the hardier mobs.
I not normally harsh, but I and others shared advice, you ignored it...
You clearly don't know how to play a Wizard, you clearly don't want to LEARN how to play as you ignore the advice everyone here has so kindly given you.
Therefore I have only 1 suggestion, stop playing a class you can't play.
You don't pick up a chisle and hammer to chop down i tree, learn what skills are good for and how to use them correctly.
I'd have to say when the only person in a 12 page thread complains that CW is too weak on defense is the OP - it isn't the class.
We have a tremendous amount of control and 3 teleports on one stamina bar. Our defenses are fantastic, you just need to learn how to use them. We are no guardian fighter who can stand there and block with a shield.
This thread is aware, using Arcane Singularity to cluster aggro together, then using massive area damage spells, is a good build using spells that work as the game designers intend.
However, this Wizard doesnt have Arcane Singularity nor Sudden Lightning. So, the one-trick wonder isnt in play in this case.
This game is in beta. We need to test everything. If there are other spells, besides Arcane Singularity, that are poor, that are not working as the designers intend, then designers need to know this.
Poor spells, like Icy Terrain. If its range was much longer, then its Chill and Freeze effect would help prevent multiple-attackers from reaching the Wizard. Or poor spells, like Storm Fury - if it did something - anything - maybe it could help against multiple attackers. And so on. Designers need to know which spells dont work.
Problematic spells, like Ice Storm. Because when the Wizard uses it to get rid of aggro, the spell itself causes more aggro to arrive.
Some Wizards will lack Arcane Singularity, and these Wizards need to be viable too.
I'm sorry but i also use Icy terrain and it's awesome.
I dont know how you can think this is a poor spell.
It freezes groups of mobs in place and does decent dmg what more do you want.
And if you combine icy terrain with at will ice spells the mobs freeze almost instant.
I use chilling cloud with icy terrain and they are very strong when combined.
This is starting to be a L2P thread, oh wait it already is.
This thread is aware, using Arcane Singularity to cluster aggro together, then using massive area damage spells, is a good build using spells that work as the game designers intend.
However, this Wizard doesnt have Arcane Singularity nor Sudden Lightning. So, the one-trick wonder isnt in play in this case.
This game is in beta. We need to test everything. If there are other spells, besides Arcane Singularity, that are poor, that are not working as the designers intend, then designers need to know this.
Poor spells, like Icy Terrain. If its range was much longer, then its Chill and Freeze effect would help prevent multiple-attackers from reaching the Wizard. Or poor spells, like Storm Fury - if it did something - anything - maybe it could help against multiple attackers. And so on. Designers need to know which spells dont work.
Problematic spells, like Ice Storm. Because when the Wizard uses it to get rid of aggro, the spell itself causes more aggro to arrive.
Some Wizards will lack Arcane Singularity, and these Wizards need to be viable too.
So your actual complaint is NOT that wizards are 'squishy' as you've been saying - but rather some abilities are broken or not as good as others?
That I can agree with, but that doesn't mean the class as a whole is broken or unplayable - which is the tone I get from all your posts in here.
If you're intentionally gimping yourself by using stuff that isn't good, that's on you. Sure it should be fixed but you're presenting it as if you don't have alternatives - you do.
And when I use a daily to get rid of aggro, I dont want twice as many aggro showing up immediately because of it.
Its making me stop using daily spells altogether.
told you before ice storm is the WORST daily you can use...
it knock monster back, scatters them in all directions so you can't AoE them, plus the knockback can attract more aggro.... you complain about how many mobs are on you yet you use the 2 skills (repel) that actually makes your situation worse, those skills are more pvp bias, in pve they shouldn't even be slotted unless you very specific reason for it.
and just for the record, you wear cloth, so if you stand still to long you will die, which is why mages have the best utility skill around, and i getting feeling you don't even know how to teleport.
So your actual complaint is NOT that wizards are 'squishy' as you've been saying - but rather some abilities are broken or not as good as others?
That I can agree with, but that doesn't mean the class as a whole is broken or unplayable.
The thread started off noting how squishy the Wizard is, and that is still true. But it quickly became apparent, Wizards that optimize as a Striker build are viable. Likewise the Rogue is somewhat squishy, but by means of massive damage, can eliminate threats. Even a hybrid Striker/Controller build seems to work ok.
The concern is specifically for Wizards that choose these other spells.
No I dont really have alternatives. If I need to spend reallife money in order to respec this Controller Wizard into a Striker Wizard, then that would mean the game is pay-to-win.
This Wizard is my first character in this game. Like me, there will be thousands of other players who happen to choose the "unplayable" spells. The designers need to rewrite these spells to make them playable.
I getting feeling you don't even know how to teleport.
There are situations where teleport isnt feasible. Especially, tight spaces that are surrounded by neighboring aggro. There is nowhere to teleport to, or else teleport from aggro into even more aggro.
There are situations where teleport isnt feasible. Especially, tight spaces that are surrounded by neighboring aggro. There is nowhere to teleport to, or else teleport from aggro into even more aggro.
That's not true at all, you can always teleport directly behind you or in front of you through the monster (to be behind it).
This Wizard is my first character in this game. Like me, there will be thousands of other players who happen to choose the "unplayable" spells. The designers need to rewrite these spells to make them playable.
There aren't enough of those for that to be a realistic possibility - not to mention in order to progress deeper down you are FORCED to take certain powers, some of which are never bad (chill strike for example).
That's not true at all, you can always teleport directly behind you or in front of you through the monster (to be behind it).
There is ALWAYS room to teleport.
If you are surrounded by neighboring aggro in every direction, then the worst thing you can do is teleport because you merely add yet another group of aggro to the one you are trying to flee from.
The excessive aggro usually happens in locations where the monster population is dense. These are the same places where teleporting is often a bad idea.
If you are surrounded by neighboring aggro in every direction, then the worst thing you can do is teleport because you merely add yet another group of aggro to the one you are trying to flee from.
The excessive aggro usually happens in locations where the monster population is dense. These are the same places where teleporting is often a bad idea.
Some spells could use a buff, sure, but I think you're verging into the ream of over-exaggerating trying to make a point but basing it on an experience you seem to share with no one else.
Teleporting, unless stupidly done, rarely puts you in danger of pulling another set of mobs.
Besides, teleporting is great against a single target. But teleporting isnt all that effective against aggro. Even if you teleport away, the aggro still moves with you attacking you at about the same speed that you are teleporting. You can get a second or two breather but this in itself doesnt help if the Wizard lacks a way to control multiple attackers.
I'm kicking myself for actually commenting here, but I will...
I have a lvl 51 CW (as well as a 51 TR, 58 DC, & 40 GWF) and while I may die on occasion (my reflexes are not quite what they used to be, no more playing like I'm 18 for me). Usually I don't die as a CW, in fact I died way more as a TR or DC. The only thing that handles large groups of aggro mobs better is my GWF (which is designed entirely for AoE and only gets stronger with more mobs to hit). Sure CW are fragile, but played well we use controlling spells to avoid in-game death. Played not so well you will die quickly.
I've soloed Skymir the frost giant in the middle of a field of aggro without dying (Something I actually don't even want to think about doing on my GWF and only barely did on my TR). So no, surviving large masses of mobs and elite and higher level mobs is not horrible on a CW.
Your problem is that you refuse to use abilities you consider 'DPS' or 'striker' powers and really I think your refusing anything that doesn't say 'Ice/Frost/Chill XYZ'. I could go and switch out a spell or two and be 'all ice' and still be effective. In fact I'd agree with the others who called you a troll. If you do play this game then you need to learn from other CC and Ice builds in these very forums and avoid the 'striker' builds as you call them. Whichever way you go you need to learn how to maximize the options the game gives you.
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xraxisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The game gets a lot harder for everyone after level 25. It sounds like you need to watch some videos of higher level wizards playing to understand how they play a little more.
As far as teleporting goes. It's always better to teleport than to take the damage. Just teleport back the way you came from where you engaged if there are mobs on your sides. You can teleport 3 times in quick succession in any direction. If they are larger mobs you can teleport into them and it will stop you, but if you time it right you can still dodge the attack.
In every MMO there are always cookie cutter builds that work better than others. I hope they buff up some of our other skills, but for the time being some abilities are almost needed. I have only died twice, and I still have the dropped light potions from tower district that I haven't used.
I also suggest using the Cleric companion. her healing aggro has saved me more than a few times.
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xraxisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
LOL, my Wizard has stood still on top of a rooftop, and still attracted massive aggro.
Sounds like you need to learn the aggro range of the mobs that are around you. You can even move into aggro range for a moment and move out with no aggro.
If you are surrounded by neighboring aggro in every direction, then the worst thing you can do is teleport because you merely add yet another group of aggro to the one you are trying to flee from.
The excessive aggro usually happens in locations where the monster population is dense. These are the same places where teleporting is often a bad idea.
Are you dropping into hostile territory from the air like a paratrooper?
You should never be unable to teleport backwards and be safe.
I starting to feel sorry for this guy, i don't think he will ever have a clue, seem to me he only one who has trouble lol
What I really don't get is his 'build like a striker' comment when I've been the most effective levelling with almost pure control powers (chill strike, steal time, shield pulse) that happen to do really good damage too.
Are you dropping into hostile territory from the air like a paratrooper?
You should never be unable to teleport backwards and be safe.
What you say is inaccurate.
First of all, aggro can spawn, in which case, no, you cant go back. There are also times when there are monsters to the left and monsters to the right. You slip to the right and the ones to the left seem to leave you alone, ... until a fight breaks out with the ones on the right, and then ones you left behind coming running to join in the fight.
And they FOLLOW you. There is no "safe". You can teleport away from aggro all the way back to the campfire, and the aggro of six to twelve or more monsters will surround you and kill you while you are standing on the campfire.
First of all, aggro can spawn, in which case, no, you cant go back. There are also times when there are monsters to the left and monsters to the right. You slip to the right and the ones to the left seem to leave you alone, ... until a fight breaks out with the ones on the right, and then ones you left behind coming running to join in the fight.
And they FOLLOW you. There is no "safe". You can teleport away from aggro all the way back to the campfire, and the aggro of six to twelve or more monsters will surround you and kill you while you are standing on the campfire.
try using your brain, you alway start in safe spot, you have range, pull mobs to save spot kill them.
then widen the corridor by pulling diff group,, when you have more space rinse repeat.
it should be easy, and tbh with skills you pick you should be able to handle 2-3 groups unless your running around naked
Comments
second: if you are allowing multiple monsters to surround you without a plan how to deal with them, it is your fault that you die.
third: this isnt something someone else could influence (most of the time), since after your last posts it seems you are pulling the monsters yourself.
fine, then stop playing ^^
Look for something else thats enjoyable for you
Each of these posts is a separate event to report to the developers, who need to see the gravity and the frequency of the issue.
Massive aggro happens in rapid succession with the Control Wizard having no way to respond to multiple attackers.
If that is so, then how come others don't have that problem? i can take out 4-5 mobs at ease when soloing, and if i lure 2-3 more groups when attacking i adapt to the situation and i still manage to kill them all. Yes i do take some dmg, but not enough to get killed.
Waiting for a cool sig T.T
My Controller Wizard is in a solo quest.
The Neverwinter game assumes solo quests. The gaming design for each control spell and for the Control Wizard as a whole, needs to work effectively in this context.
I suspect you didn't build a control wizard - you built an intentionally limited character, focusing on flavor over function. You made choices, and you think the game should be easy regardless of the choices you make. You also don't want anyone to insinuate the problem could be how you're spacing yourself and engaging in the fights - using your player skill to help make up for your poor build choices.
I really did pipe in originally to help and participate in the conversation, because I'm a new player myself. Of course, I'm finding that the wizard is by far the easiest to manage and control aggro with so far, and the simplest to level because the class is a beast.
After your continued denial of advice, I think I see the writing on the wall - you're not looking for help, you're looking for some way to justify some changes you want to see made (that few others want or see a need for).
This is a game. While it is fairly difficult in this game to completely gimp your character, you may have. In addition, some characters may favor specific play styles, and this may be an area in which you're also inflexible.
I dont understand why you are dying that often.
I have lvl 60 wizard did all the content solo (except for dungeons) and only died twice while getting to 60.
Most of the content i did while being lower in level than the zone. My friends that play other classes have much more problems surviving and killing zone bosses than me as a CW.
When rolling with a cleric companion i find it actually hard to die and can manage very big groups without a problem.
Make sure you use items with power and enchantments with defense so the cleric will last longer coz in the last few zones he can die pretty quickly.
With the use of potions and a cleric companion as a pocket healer you really shouldn't be dying that often especially at that low level where i felt kinda invincible with a cleric companion.
I use Sudden storm in spell mastery , metoer thingy, icy terrain and the black hole thingy to AOE the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of big groups. The sudden storm does crazy *** dmg against all mobs and 1 shots the trash mobs. Icy terrain to freeze mobs and singularity to group them up. Later on meteor for even more CC.
Also the Dogde of the CW is the best of all classes you can teleport through mobs make sure to use it to your advantage.
So i really think you should evaluate your current build/playstyle coz dying so often as you describe is just not neccesary. All i can say always keep moving (Movement and posistioning are very important for a CW). CC the hell out of them groups, the aoe CC abilities you get for wizard are very good for PVE and should help alot in keeping you from dying. Your single target dmg kinda sucks but you make up for it with the crazy AOE dmg you get.
And like the previous poster i also believe the wizard is the easiest class to manage and control aggro with.
Sorry to say but Solo questing can be done blindfoulded, can 1shot group trash with basic green gear and basic skills, with some crowd control on the hardier mobs.
I not normally harsh, but I and others shared advice, you ignored it...
You clearly don't know how to play a Wizard, you clearly don't want to LEARN how to play as you ignore the advice everyone here has so kindly given you.
Therefore I have only 1 suggestion, stop playing a class you can't play.
You don't pick up a chisle and hammer to chop down i tree, learn what skills are good for and how to use them correctly.
We have a tremendous amount of control and 3 teleports on one stamina bar. Our defenses are fantastic, you just need to learn how to use them. We are no guardian fighter who can stand there and block with a shield.
However, this Wizard doesnt have Arcane Singularity nor Sudden Lightning. So, the one-trick wonder isnt in play in this case.
This game is in beta. We need to test everything. If there are other spells, besides Arcane Singularity, that are poor, that are not working as the designers intend, then designers need to know this.
Poor spells, like Icy Terrain. If its range was much longer, then its Chill and Freeze effect would help prevent multiple-attackers from reaching the Wizard. Or poor spells, like Storm Fury - if it did something - anything - maybe it could help against multiple attackers. And so on. Designers need to know which spells dont work.
Problematic spells, like Ice Storm. Because when the Wizard uses it to get rid of aggro, the spell itself causes more aggro to arrive.
Some Wizards will lack Arcane Singularity, and these Wizards need to be viable too.
I dont know how you can think this is a poor spell.
It freezes groups of mobs in place and does decent dmg what more do you want.
And if you combine icy terrain with at will ice spells the mobs freeze almost instant.
I use chilling cloud with icy terrain and they are very strong when combined.
This is starting to be a L2P thread, oh wait it already is.
So your actual complaint is NOT that wizards are 'squishy' as you've been saying - but rather some abilities are broken or not as good as others?
That I can agree with, but that doesn't mean the class as a whole is broken or unplayable - which is the tone I get from all your posts in here.
If you're intentionally gimping yourself by using stuff that isn't good, that's on you. Sure it should be fixed but you're presenting it as if you don't have alternatives - you do.
told you before ice storm is the WORST daily you can use...
it knock monster back, scatters them in all directions so you can't AoE them, plus the knockback can attract more aggro.... you complain about how many mobs are on you yet you use the 2 skills (repel) that actually makes your situation worse, those skills are more pvp bias, in pve they shouldn't even be slotted unless you very specific reason for it.
and just for the record, you wear cloth, so if you stand still to long you will die, which is why mages have the best utility skill around, and i getting feeling you don't even know how to teleport.
The concern is specifically for Wizards that choose these other spells.
No I dont really have alternatives. If I need to spend reallife money in order to respec this Controller Wizard into a Striker Wizard, then that would mean the game is pay-to-win.
This Wizard is my first character in this game. Like me, there will be thousands of other players who happen to choose the "unplayable" spells. The designers need to rewrite these spells to make them playable.
That's not true at all, you can always teleport directly behind you or in front of you through the monster (to be behind it).
There is ALWAYS room to teleport.
I want an interesting diversity of Wizards, doing different kinds of things, and all of these possibilities to be viable.
There aren't enough of those for that to be a realistic possibility - not to mention in order to progress deeper down you are FORCED to take certain powers, some of which are never bad (chill strike for example).
The excessive aggro usually happens in locations where the monster population is dense. These are the same places where teleporting is often a bad idea.
Some spells could use a buff, sure, but I think you're verging into the ream of over-exaggerating trying to make a point but basing it on an experience you seem to share with no one else.
Teleporting, unless stupidly done, rarely puts you in danger of pulling another set of mobs.
I have a lvl 51 CW (as well as a 51 TR, 58 DC, & 40 GWF) and while I may die on occasion (my reflexes are not quite what they used to be, no more playing like I'm 18 for me). Usually I don't die as a CW, in fact I died way more as a TR or DC. The only thing that handles large groups of aggro mobs better is my GWF (which is designed entirely for AoE and only gets stronger with more mobs to hit). Sure CW are fragile, but played well we use controlling spells to avoid in-game death. Played not so well you will die quickly.
I've soloed Skymir the frost giant in the middle of a field of aggro without dying (Something I actually don't even want to think about doing on my GWF and only barely did on my TR). So no, surviving large masses of mobs and elite and higher level mobs is not horrible on a CW.
Your problem is that you refuse to use abilities you consider 'DPS' or 'striker' powers and really I think your refusing anything that doesn't say 'Ice/Frost/Chill XYZ'. I could go and switch out a spell or two and be 'all ice' and still be effective. In fact I'd agree with the others who called you a troll. If you do play this game then you need to learn from other CC and Ice builds in these very forums and avoid the 'striker' builds as you call them. Whichever way you go you need to learn how to maximize the options the game gives you.
As far as teleporting goes. It's always better to teleport than to take the damage. Just teleport back the way you came from where you engaged if there are mobs on your sides. You can teleport 3 times in quick succession in any direction. If they are larger mobs you can teleport into them and it will stop you, but if you time it right you can still dodge the attack.
In every MMO there are always cookie cutter builds that work better than others. I hope they buff up some of our other skills, but for the time being some abilities are almost needed. I have only died twice, and I still have the dropped light potions from tower district that I haven't used.
I also suggest using the Cleric companion. her healing aggro has saved me more than a few times.
Sounds like you need to learn the aggro range of the mobs that are around you. You can even move into aggro range for a moment and move out with no aggro.
Are you dropping into hostile territory from the air like a paratrooper?
You should never be unable to teleport backwards and be safe.
What I really don't get is his 'build like a striker' comment when I've been the most effective levelling with almost pure control powers (chill strike, steal time, shield pulse) that happen to do really good damage too.
First of all, aggro can spawn, in which case, no, you cant go back. There are also times when there are monsters to the left and monsters to the right. You slip to the right and the ones to the left seem to leave you alone, ... until a fight breaks out with the ones on the right, and then ones you left behind coming running to join in the fight.
And they FOLLOW you. There is no "safe". You can teleport away from aggro all the way back to the campfire, and the aggro of six to twelve or more monsters will surround you and kill you while you are standing on the campfire.
try using your brain, you alway start in safe spot, you have range, pull mobs to save spot kill them.
then widen the corridor by pulling diff group,, when you have more space rinse repeat.
it should be easy, and tbh with skills you pick you should be able to handle 2-3 groups unless your running around naked