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Fighter Facts, Lv60 At-Wills Comparison
zardoz007
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User
Here are the listings of the Actual numbers both fighters deal when equipped with only there founders pack purple weapon at level 60. All other gear has been removed for comparison purposes. Reading through this list you will see exactly how shafted the GWF is at lv 60 with there at -Will power. There ONLY redeeming quality is the fact that unstoppable gives a huge attack speed buff on At wills. This is not a good reason for the GWF at wills to do so little damage. IF the unstoppable buff is the problem lower the damage buff and give the GWF some decent base damage attacks. Right now GWF are useless unless Unstoppable is up and when it is up they are merely so-so
Lv60 GWF, Destroy Path
Delzoun Greatsword
Damage: 752-919
Equip: +1,538 Power
Offense Slot: +90 Power
Critical Strike +248
Armor Pen +248
AT-WILLS
Reaping Strike Rank 3
Damage: 1977-2348
Area: 15' Range 3ft Cylinder
Speed: Very Very Slow
Now we all know reaping strike has it's uses for soloing as it is a good instigator and it can be combined with moves like Roar to push mobs back and then hit them again with a reaping strike when they reengage you. Reaping strike has the advantage over other GWF at wills as it can hit mobs directly behind you But because of the slow debuff of this move and the charge time it is easy to get knocked out of reaping strike losing your attack or simply to have mobs run away from you and chase another party member. These are the reasons why the attack is abandoned by all GWF.
I suggest to crytpic to balance this move on par with Magic missile. And even make the 4th attack in the combo grant a damage buff to all damage just like magic missile does for arcane powers. Now I know some players out there think melee attacks should be superior to ranged attacks, but this suggestion is a good start and remember that Unstoppable will push this damage past magic missile and for a brief time may even hold a candle to rogues DPS.
Lv60 GWF, Destroy Path
Delzoun Greatsword
Damage: 752-919
Equip: +1,538 Power
Offense Slot: +90 Power
Critical Strike +248
Armor Pen +248
AT-WILLS
Reaping Strike Rank 3
Damage: 1977-2348
Area: 15' Range 3ft Cylinder
Speed: Very Very Slow
Now we all know reaping strike has it's uses for soloing as it is a good instigator and it can be combined with moves like Roar to push mobs back and then hit them again with a reaping strike when they reengage you. Reaping strike has the advantage over other GWF at wills as it can hit mobs directly behind you But because of the slow debuff of this move and the charge time it is easy to get knocked out of reaping strike losing your attack or simply to have mobs run away from you and chase another party member. These are the reasons why the attack is abandoned by all GWF.
I suggest to crytpic to balance this move on par with Magic missile. And even make the 4th attack in the combo grant a damage buff to all damage just like magic missile does for arcane powers. Now I know some players out there think melee attacks should be superior to ranged attacks, but this suggestion is a good start and remember that Unstoppable will push this damage past magic missile and for a brief time may even hold a candle to rogues DPS.
Post edited by zardoz007 on
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Comments
Damage: 558-662
Area: 12' Range: 290 degree Cone
Speed: Average
The Third hit of this attack deals about 50% more damage than the initial two. Making this a reliable attack that for some GWF replaces sure Strike as there basic just damage dealing attack. The diminishing returns from the attack for hitting multiple targets is very harsh. From experimentation I would say the attack deals 20% Less Damage when it hits 2 targets and about 35% less damage for striking 3 targets. Lack of target dummies allows me to test more targets further but it does scale with each additional target.
This attacks purpose is designed to be the GWF staple Aoe Damage So I do not see why the diminishing returns are so harsh when the base damage of this attack is so low for a 900 damage greatsword. The attack could use some adjustments but nothing so major as what sure strike or reaping strike need.
Damage: 442-524
Area: 12' Range: 240 degree Cone
Speed: Slow
Weapon masters strike grants a damage buff to all at wills for 3-5 seconds making it the more popular at-will choice for GWF with the damage buff it puts itself when used alone on par witch Wicked strike. Combining weapon masters strike and wicked strike together is the best way to Aoe down groups of mobs. I Believe the damage bonus is about 20% of the at wills attack. And weapon maters strike has about the same diminishing returns as Wicked Strike does. But like all GWF at wills the base damage seems unbelievable low for the high damage weapons that the GWF has equipped.
Over view on GWF at wills, They are all different versions of AOE damage there is very little choice in what you want from an at Will for GWF since they are all there for the same purpose. Sure strike is the only real exception but since it's single target DPS is so much lower than every other classes single target at will why should a GWF even bother to try to use it and compete with other classes single target damage.
Delzoun Warhammer
Damage: 501-612
Equip: +1,269 Power
Offense Slot: +90 Power
Defense +248
Deflection +225
Cleave Rank 3
Damage: 751-873
Area: Melee Range 5ft Cylinder
Speed: Average (but still a little faster than wicked strike)
Cleave has a three hit combo where the third hit deals about 30% more damage than the first 2. It's area is noticeably smaller than Wicked strike you need to position yourself well to hit 4 or more targets with it or just let wizards group them up for you. Also this attack has no diminishing returns. This is the GF staple I do damage move, decent area good damage, single target or group you will still want to sue this move.
GWF look at this move and think how unfair it is that a GF with a weapon that deals 50% less damage than a greatsword has an Area attack that deals 50% more damage than wicked strike. How ever I think the move is fine.
Damage: 664-769 (Assume 730-845 for Rank 3 +10% damage boost)
Area: Melee Range 3ft Cylinder
Speed: Average
This is a reliable single target attack, with no combo move portion to this attack cleave is still on par with it's slightly higher damage but it does return 10% of your guard meter per attack. This at will is good for GF's that want to hold the big boss and not kill there guard meter while doing it.
Damage: 861-1001
Area: Melee Range 2ft Cylinder
Speed: Average
This is a three part single target combo attack and on the the third hit heals you for about 310HP, (I fought some lv 52 Drow naked with this move the could not even do enough damage to take my HP down at all) This probably deals slightly more damage than cleave and has the benefit of healing you. It is the Gfs attack of choice for single target damage. Not that the self healing is a “player power” and it keys of Grit and other player healing power triggers.
Damage: 646-750
Area: Melee, Charge range is unlisted but it is still significant
Speed: Slow
This is a short range charge move that AOE marks your target and all nearby targets. The damage is low, but still better than most GWF moves. And it is great to position your GF in any fight I can use this to charge Minions in a boss fight to dodge red circle attacks on my GF. This is the staple tanking GF move and is really good in PvP and pretty much anywhere .
I dare say the lack of detailed info is all too convenient to be a coincidence so cryptic excuse themselves on the player base lack of info and not answer to questions about game balace, that and other preposterous excuses such as balance being done considering primarily potion consumption and leveling pace (which would be ridiculous even if you couldn't buy level 60 via leadership).
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Reaping Strike could be enhanced by cutting the charge up time to 50% or completely during Unstoppable. This would make it situational but more fun. Also, autofire Reaping Strike during an interrupt would benefit the GWF but would still reward a quick responder. Make the autofire cap at the first charge of Reaping Strike.
Sure Strike should not have any aoe components and should be improved in damage. This would benefit single-target GWFs and could be avoided completely by others.
Ideas/comments?
revert to BW3 would be a good placeholder while they come up with something more deep.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
IF I did this comparison of the GWF to GF with encounters it will only look worse. GF get tank moves, Aoe CC moves, Party buff moves, awesome knockdown single target moves, and there AT will power trumps the GWF encounter helaing power. Not to mention GF also get an awesome healing daily power that practically gives them about 90% lifesteal. All GWF get are single target moves with very crappy side effects (HAMSTER healing, very weak mark), Buff moves that up there defense and do nothing for threat, CC moves that can't compare to the GF and deal less damage with even longer cooldowns. Oh and takedown has a cooldown reduction on a miss... because the move is so bad and so short range it is so very easy to miss with.
This +10
By the way, in the Trade of Blades (PvP building) there are target dummies.
actually i tested on the dummies at the trade of blades and if you hit them in a line with SS the 4th hit is an aoe.
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Seems to me that I've never seen four attacks on Reaping Strike. Rather, I've seen three attacks that ramp up in damage as you suggest here. I made a post on that very topic in fact, you can view the numbers I got if you want, it at least shows how much the damage ramps up on a Reaping Strike crit.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?248571-Reaping-Strike-is-really-three-simultaneous-hits
You somewhat misrepresent things. In your description of WMS you point out why Wicked Strikes is awesome. It's animation cancelling with WMS that makes WS the go-to choice.
On top of that, the massive debuff from multiple targets is mostly cancelled within the Instigator tree. Certain At-Wills seem designed to go with certain feat paths.
Yeah, pretty much this. Since both are only really useful when a mage lays down their gather, it becomes obvious which one is the superior choice. I must ask though, is this maneuver target capped? If not, it explains so much about the overall damage done in a dungeon.
There ya go; fixed that for ya.
The fact that apparently your grip on reality has shunted and are now convinced that Reaping Strike and Sure Strike have melded into one ability is why your thread should have the word "fact" removed and also why I immediately stopped reading.
the 2nd dummy have to be in range and in a perfect line. im on the dragon server if you want i can go with you and you can see while i apply damage and debuff stacks with SS to 2 dummies at the trade of blades.
why would there be an aoe diminishing returns if there is no aoe?
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
So why can I hit a tight bunch of 5 NPC's and get no AoE? I'll go try it a few more times to see if it has weird positioning. Something seems strange if you are applying debuffs to target dummies.
- Edit -
Ok, I think I've found what's happening. The AoE part tends to be very narrow but long, so groups of enemies that are close to you don't get hit even when they are bunched.
I found a group of slow zombies and kited them into a line and could hit 2-3 at a time. As soon as they got close it went back to only hitting 1.
TY hedas8, the 15' range and 2' cylinder also makes more sense now. Narrow and long.
i line up and get very close to the 1st dummy so the 2nd is within range, hit 3 times and the 4th deals damage to both ( easier to see when it crits, since most debuffs happen on crits).
Hedas 60 GWF.
Hrod 60 GF.
Alain Loreweaver 60 CW.
Dragon.
Cheers,
You can find base dmg and scaling of any ability.