Oh please it takes 1-2 days of /played to reach 60 even if you do every **** skirmish and dungeon while leveling. So saying a wipe is not an option because people cant level up again is total bs.
Have you considered that some of us would not want to level up again? The game is too linear. One play through is enough for me. If they wipe...I'm out.
if you do a rollback do it, take all our money and all our gear but for the sacred love of fucck let us keep our levels ... levels have nothing to do with the exploit ... I rather die and quit the game forever that do helms hold and those retarrded shieet quests again.
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shannairaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
I agree. Database constraints are fine in theory. However in practice, they are almost never used. This is especially true in high volume environments. Transactions are a different matter, but I haven't implement database constrains in years and years...
I hope you don't work for a bank. The Currency systems in this game eventually have a Real Money source (Cash for Zen, Zen for AD/AD for Zen) If that data is not in a transaction and the columns in the tables that handle that currency are not constrained to prevent stupidity like this, at some point an audit is going to ruin PWE. Check Constraints are very very light in nature. CHECK BidAmt >0, is not going to slow anything down. Keeping money from disappearing is what Databases were created for. Financial transaction are contained in a transaction and the values have check constraints to make sure that the data is valid.
Do not do a wipe. I will quit. I will tell everyone who has played D&D with me in RL not to play this. They will listen to me, because I am their Dungeon Master. BTW - My group has no qualms about spending hundreds of dollars on anything that is D&D. Neither do the groups following all the other Dungeon Masters who spent weeks building Foundry quests. If a wipe removes our Foundry missions, this game is doomed. Trust me, gear grinders won't carry this game half as long as us publishers will. Plus, since they whine so much about the economy, most of them are actually totally against spending real money.
I have to apologize at the underlined statement made me laugh.
If they do a server roll-back I would be upset as well. However I would be angry at the players who abused the bug rather than Cryptic. Perhaps it is just common sense talking... It is not as though the company wants to do a roll-back on every player. If the problem became that bad however, then it has to be done.
Dude, there is more whine here that I thought possible. lol Its a free game and all the profit is being made on the pay 2 win fools with the various exploiters wishing they could afford to be just like them. Shut up and play. Who cares if they wipe you, really. They wont make you lose anything but TIME, the time you spend leveling, etc... You wont lose Zen, everything else is easily obtainable. Some of you people make me fear the long term viability of mankind, ie; Do us all a favor and dont breed.
This game is advertised as open beta right?
So it is reasonable to assume a wipe or halting of the service for a period of time since its beta?
Or is it possible that the open beta advertising is just an excuse for their faulty final product ?
Look closely in any business management if a company comes up with a faulty product they pull all their faulty units back covering all expenses. Why do you expect different in software development.
Guys like you who are so biased and have an urge to play even a faulty product like this so bad lets companies like these to be still in business.
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voklesh010Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
i have 3 char 2 at 60 . I spent a lot of real money and real time for this game. If they refound me with real money and not with Zen it is ok they can do what they want . Now i think that is impossible for them do that so they should have to reset only the AH and what is done is done. With the time the economy will fix by itself.
You do what you have to do with high volumes, including removing all constraints. And that is assuming that they are using a system which HAS constraints, which is unlikely. I'd expect them to be using a document database or some other store which doesn't have constraints and pulling it to a relational database nightly. The issue should have been caught in the application and on the server in case someone hacked the link. I'm also very surprised they weren't checking prices on the AH to make sure that the economy was stable.
Indeed, most truly high performance applications don't even directly write to conventional relational databases. I'm not really up to date on how NoSQL works, but apparently that's all the rage with these high performance applications, or indeed a document messaging system that dumps info to the database asynchronously.
To me this is a win-win situation. Some small expliot is being made a big deal by some people. Whatever it was, it did not effect me, so i could care less. So how is this a win-win?
1) Win - They wipe the server - I get to start over and do things differently that I am now wiser on through game experience. A bunch of people will quit, meaning less crowding in Protector's Enclave and a bit more peace and quiet.
2) Win - They do some roll-back, causing people who wanted a wipe to quit. Inconvenience for me having to repeat a few quests . . . big deal . . . but again folks will quit, thus making things quieter in the social zone.
Either way . . . looking forward to the servers coming back up
Whatever solution is adopted there is no reason to think that any Foundry content should be lost since this will be in a completely separate database. If it's not then these devs are completely clueless!
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furushuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think it's funny that people complain so hard about this going on in the game and being left in the dark.
When in the real world your always in the dark do you realize that your being scammed every day? Do you realize you do not get a receipt for what Government spends taxes on? Do you realize as an American citizen you are not allowed to know where the money goes all you know is 50% goes straight into military projects we have no right to know about... Trillions of dollars go missing and our own government can't explain it and won't explain it because your not allowed to know even though it's your right to know. The CIA is allowed by law to take as much money as they want from any division of the government with no disclosure and answer to no one.
All this real insane stuff going on in the world and your crying more over a game and its broken economy that you have absolutely no control over.
So people exploited and now your calling AD and Zen worthless because there is so much around... seriously complaining about game economy what a joke. Have you seen the amount of money there is in the real world? Trillions and trillions Gas/oil alone is a 600 trillion dollar industry looks to me like Gas/oil have been exploiting people for years don't forget the banks they hold everyone's money so they have even more but guess whats even better the five top banks are owned by the five top Gas/oil companies so who owns your Government when the Government became corrupt and sold the banks and now have no control over the money. They own 51% of the worlds income/money and you tell me they don't run the world? You realize there is only 6-7 billion people on the planet. Why does poverty exist? Where is middle class going? Why are all the problems still around and getting progressively worse when there's more than enough money and to fix all of them.
...
Welcome to Earth controlled by corporatism.
One of the big problems with the world is the number of people who remain willfully and intentionally ignorant. The entire production of the world, measured in dollars in 2012 was approximately 72 trillion dollars yet to talk about how evil gas and oil companies are you talk about how they're a 600 trillion dollar industry (heck, the whole wealth of the world is only $230 trillion dollars to head off any attempts to change your statements).
Add to that that "companies" are just organizations of people. Any penny that a "company" has is a penny that belongs to a human person. The problem the world has is explaining how we are able to create all of this to the lowest common denominator because the LCD is so **** low these days and every member of it believes they're entitled to their own absurdly incorrect opinion.
I do love the fact everyone is so vehemently angry with Cryptic and PW. I know the term 'beta; is very loose and it is essentially a released game. I know they could handle this better and for once it would be NICE for a developer to put foresight into how exactly they will handle this type of stuff because they know it will happen at some point and we want to know right away how it will be handled.
But how come noone ever gets mad at the selfish few people who find an exploit then abuse it? I guess because we don't know who they are, but in reality they are the ones who cause this. Instead of having some concern for others and some degree of integrity, they find holes (which there will always be) and exploit them. I guess their personal moment of getting it over on someone outweighs being concerned with the enjoyment of thousands of others.
We are still investigating the situation. There is a high likelihood that we will be performing character-specific rollbacks on any accounts that were found to be utilizing the exploit. Additionally, we are investigating the extent of what can additional steps can be taken to remove any illegitimately obtained Astral Diamonds that have entered into the economy. We are also investigating the possibility of a shard-wide rollback.
Limited & account specific would be ideal however if it takes a 1-2 day roll-back and then action against those accounts before they can log on i am fine with that if that is the only way to keep some semblance of integrity. Bites as my kids and I can only play on weekends due to work/school so we would be loosing a week...
I got 6 levels since Friday, but really it didn't take much effort, so a rollback would be okay i guess. I don't see why it took so long for them to act though. My guild leader warned us all early this morning about this and expected a rollback, but the auction and stuff didnt go down for many hours later. Surly they can pay someone minimum wage to sit at a computer and google "neverwinter exploit" over and over.
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kitsynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 5
edited May 2013
I don't understand why they'd wipe published Foundry quests if they did a character wipe. This makes no sense.
I've not been playing this long. My toon is just lvl 17 mostly done over two days playing. I have not spent a penny on it, it is, in the dev's words, "In beta" I've been around the block a few times, so not one red cent is leaving my pocket. So I'm playing for free, having fun and Tanking around with a mate on TS. It is worth every penny I have spent. If they wipe I lose nothing, the fun was still had.
When it is out of beta I may chuck a few quid in and start another toon using the experience gained for free.
I work with another Dev team as an internal tester for a game...They're only human, they <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up, make mistakes and miss things. I have seen some real nasty comments aimed at the Devs, folk have called them stupid...Maybe they should go away and code a huge MMO and see how easy it is.
Anyway I' not fussed; roll back, ban, re-code the entire game. It's a bit of fun. I have seen the word work bandied about. People if you think playing a game is work, well, you have never "worked"
Anyway if any Dev is looking (and why would they?) Nice game, I'm having fun. If and when you get the cheating sorted. I will probably be throwing you a few quid
why the fk cant ppl just shut their trap until sht is updated. nervous nerds all jabbering about, jesus, its like u were born just to sprout ur **** all over the web thinking anybody gives a rats ***. game wipe, only world wipe would fix this sht. lol
Oh please it takes 1-2 days of /played to reach 60 even if you do every **** skirmish and dungeon while leveling. So saying a wipe is not an option because people cant level up again is total bs.
They will not do a wipe. They will lose to many people so I am calling bs on that and if you read what they post it will tell you this.(performing character-specific rollbacks on any accounts that were found to be utilizing the exploit.) So imo that tells you no wipe
People, you really have to stop complaining. You know you are playing a beta, which means this game is being tested. During testing there is always the possibility of things getting so screwed up that they will have to start from the beginning. By playing a Beta game you are agreeing to partake in these risks. I am certain that if any roll back/wipe occurs any money spent on this game will be refunded/ or credited.
Making an MMO is a massive undertaking where there is lots of room for error. Be patient with the developers so they can make a polished game that will entertain for years. Help them out by providing positive feedback that they can use. And finally, if you are not willing to lose all that you have worked for, THEN DONT PLAY BETA!
As to everyone else, hope to see you in game in a few hours!
silicondeathMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm not sure if this has gotten posted yet, or not, but if it has, I think it needs to be said again. THIS IS BETA Do you not understand what a BETA TEST is? It means they know there is stuff wrong, but the only way they are going to be able to find and fix everything, (Because if you've ever done any real coding you'll know debugging you're own code, can be a b***h) is to have people play it, run through it, try to break it, and fix the issues as they come up, that's why there is a bug tracker, that's why they have developers probably going through the thousands upon thousands of lines of code, all day every day. I'm sure they have a plan in place to keep people real money purchases safe for post-beta, or maybe they will just do a rolling update into alpha, but until then, if you want to whine about the server going down all the time, or glitching, or being changed. Then don't play a beta. The game is FREE right now, with the exception of OPTIONAL purchases for extra stuff. So two things, 1. BETA, 2. FREE. Quit whining, and if you can't, go play something in release instead of beta.
I'm level 18, and have about 500 AD. How am I an exploiter? Quit making assumptions. Lots of foundry publishers are panicking because of jerks like you calling for a wipe over something that DOES NOT CONCERN YOU nor AFFECT you in ANY FREAKING WAY!!!! Shut up, die, burn in Hell, you stupid troll.
I agree with you..We dont need a wipe, or even a roll back. What we need is people to stop complaining, and honestly...Even if we did wipe, that wouldnt fix anything. You cant fix any kind of economy like that.
And i'm about 100% positive that most people calling for a wipe or rollback havent even got themselves to level 60, or even had a full set of Epic gear or got that companion they had been saving the AD for.
And for the people saying "If they roll back or wipe, founders should get 7 more days before others" stop being greedy.
I love this game, but the community or should i say the "Forum Community" ruins the experience. Forums are supposed to be there to help people, not for endless Whining, Moaning, and such.
You guys think your "Helping", well your not...you are making things worse.
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sumitosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Simple solution
1.let the admins continue to find those that quietly use the exploit in the AH and ban their accounts etc
2.roll back from when it was brought out into trade chat - solved that issue
3.Compensate every toon on each shard with 5mil Ad and 1k zen. this will shut people up about the rollback(if it happens). They'll be 2 happy playing with the zen/Ad to care.
sure everything will go silly with all that ad/zen burning a hole in their back pocket (so to speak), but it will settle down within a week most likely... this will make everyone a win/win situation to perfectworld and everyone playing beta.
As long as people who paid get their money worth back (items/account types paid for) I don't mind the roll-back. This is a very good game, I just hope it won't hurt it right from the beginning by going either way (rolling back, or having a hurt economy from not rolling-back).
Good luck to the people working on this, I know it is difficult and hope it will turn out well in the end!
I am sure there will be no wipe.
The only reason they have this investigation is that it hurts their earnings.
They would never investigate an exploit that only granted gear honor gold. AD is convertable to Zen which is their earning.
Simple as that.
This game shouldnt have been released for at least 2months. It is nowhere near a release candidate for even a beta.
When was the last time you completed a dungeon without a glitch?
How many exploits have seen in a month that granted players unfair advantage ?
I'd expect an honest company to put the game server on hold for at least a month.
Fire the incompetent employers responsible for all these faults. Hire new ones and fix the game.
Pay back all customers and release the game when it is actually ready with a wipe.
If they do this i would buy any pack they sell even if i had no intention of playing the game just for the support.
But the truth is this will never happen !!! I would be surprised if they permanently ban a single exploiter .
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here we go....
1) I very, very rarely comment on forums anymore. I've played most every major MMO since Ultima Online, and there's a reason that I now mostly solo until I can't any longer, and then move on. I honestly can't stand dealing with other people. That's what real life is for, and I play games to unwind from that. Not targeted at you, but just a little personal background.
2) I'll admit, I've only been playing for two days, on a free beta key, and haven't spent any money on the game yet. My understanding is that the game is in beta and I was waiting to drop my 200$ on the drow pack once I determined if I liked it. I'm currently level 16 with the only character I have built. Based on my experience so far, I'll most likely spend the cash in the next week or two.
3) Up to this point, and I speak as someone who had a rare three hours of uninterrupted game time lost (Servers dropped just as I was finishing Cloak Tower; boss was literally at less than 3% life), I have experienced only one glitch in a quest. I forget the name of it, but it was, I think, with Denelaith (sp?) not following me out of the sewers. After a restart, I ran back through, and it worked perfectly. I have beta'ed over a dozen games, and this is the most polished one I've ever seen. Granted, I've not come very far compared to the rest of you, but I'm a casual player. I'm a representative of the target demographic that, in our silent majority, pays the way for the games the power-gamer enjoys. Your hyperbole is a reaction of your current frustration, and I understand that, but I feel it does little to forward the positive progress of this game.
4) This is just a point for others out there that I have read in my lurking on these forums. I, and the hundreds of thousands like me, who have no compunction to post on these forums, or use the AH, or spend money (for now) on Zen or AD, are waiting to see how things unfold. I honestly don't care about the state of the "virtual economy". I use what my character can find. I care more about storyline and playability than some perceived advantage. Does another character have more money or equipment than I? I don't care. Let them enjoy it, as long as I can enjoy the game in my own right. I maxxed out on DDO at 14th level. Did I reach the max level? No. Did I have the awesome gear that someone else had? No. Did I enjoy the 3+ years I played the game? Absolutely! Maybe...just maybe...it's time for MMO players to stop comparing playstyles, gear, builds, and accomplishments, and learn to enjoy the experience. I've never been in a large guild, never had the best stuff, and in only one game have I achieved max level, but I love these games because they give me never-ending content. I used to have to pay monthly for that, and was glad to do it. Now I only pay for what I want. I have no room to complain. Do any of you? Really?
Comments
Have you considered that some of us would not want to level up again? The game is too linear. One play through is enough for me. If they wipe...I'm out.
I hope you don't work for a bank. The Currency systems in this game eventually have a Real Money source (Cash for Zen, Zen for AD/AD for Zen) If that data is not in a transaction and the columns in the tables that handle that currency are not constrained to prevent stupidity like this, at some point an audit is going to ruin PWE. Check Constraints are very very light in nature. CHECK BidAmt >0, is not going to slow anything down. Keeping money from disappearing is what Databases were created for. Financial transaction are contained in a transaction and the values have check constraints to make sure that the data is valid.
Any other design decision is lunacy.
If they do a server roll-back I would be upset as well. However I would be angry at the players who abused the bug rather than Cryptic. Perhaps it is just common sense talking... It is not as though the company wants to do a roll-back on every player. If the problem became that bad however, then it has to be done.
So it is reasonable to assume a wipe or halting of the service for a period of time since its beta?
Or is it possible that the open beta advertising is just an excuse for their faulty final product ?
Look closely in any business management if a company comes up with a faulty product they pull all their faulty units back covering all expenses. Why do you expect different in software development.
Guys like you who are so biased and have an urge to play even a faulty product like this so bad lets companies like these to be still in business.
Indeed, most truly high performance applications don't even directly write to conventional relational databases. I'm not really up to date on how NoSQL works, but apparently that's all the rage with these high performance applications, or indeed a document messaging system that dumps info to the database asynchronously.
1) Win - They wipe the server - I get to start over and do things differently that I am now wiser on through game experience. A bunch of people will quit, meaning less crowding in Protector's Enclave and a bit more peace and quiet.
2) Win - They do some roll-back, causing people who wanted a wipe to quit. Inconvenience for me having to repeat a few quests . . . big deal . . . but again folks will quit, thus making things quieter in the social zone.
Either way . . . looking forward to the servers coming back up
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
One of the big problems with the world is the number of people who remain willfully and intentionally ignorant. The entire production of the world, measured in dollars in 2012 was approximately 72 trillion dollars yet to talk about how evil gas and oil companies are you talk about how they're a 600 trillion dollar industry (heck, the whole wealth of the world is only $230 trillion dollars to head off any attempts to change your statements).
Add to that that "companies" are just organizations of people. Any penny that a "company" has is a penny that belongs to a human person. The problem the world has is explaining how we are able to create all of this to the lowest common denominator because the LCD is so **** low these days and every member of it believes they're entitled to their own absurdly incorrect opinion.
P.S. I hope PWE can fix the problem
A Wipe would be the end of this game...then just give us our money back that we spend. ty
But how come noone ever gets mad at the selfish few people who find an exploit then abuse it? I guess because we don't know who they are, but in reality they are the ones who cause this. Instead of having some concern for others and some degree of integrity, they find holes (which there will always be) and exploit them. I guess their personal moment of getting it over on someone outweighs being concerned with the enjoyment of thousands of others.
I thought there was going to be a wipe before going live anyway, no?
When it is out of beta I may chuck a few quid in and start another toon using the experience gained for free.
I work with another Dev team as an internal tester for a game...They're only human, they <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up, make mistakes and miss things. I have seen some real nasty comments aimed at the Devs, folk have called them stupid...Maybe they should go away and code a huge MMO and see how easy it is.
Anyway I' not fussed; roll back, ban, re-code the entire game. It's a bit of fun. I have seen the word work bandied about. People if you think playing a game is work, well, you have never "worked"
Anyway if any Dev is looking (and why would they?) Nice game, I'm having fun. If and when you get the cheating sorted. I will probably be throwing you a few quid
They will not do a wipe. They will lose to many people so I am calling bs on that and if you read what they post it will tell you this.(performing character-specific rollbacks on any accounts that were found to be utilizing the exploit.) So imo that tells you no wipe
I only got one word to say: Obamanomics
Yes, I went there...let the flames begin LOL
Darklodus
Making an MMO is a massive undertaking where there is lots of room for error. Be patient with the developers so they can make a polished game that will entertain for years. Help them out by providing positive feedback that they can use. And finally, if you are not willing to lose all that you have worked for, THEN DONT PLAY BETA!
As to everyone else, hope to see you in game in a few hours!
Peace,
~TC
www.gamingbygrace.com
I agree with you..We dont need a wipe, or even a roll back. What we need is people to stop complaining, and honestly...Even if we did wipe, that wouldnt fix anything. You cant fix any kind of economy like that.
And i'm about 100% positive that most people calling for a wipe or rollback havent even got themselves to level 60, or even had a full set of Epic gear or got that companion they had been saving the AD for.
And for the people saying "If they roll back or wipe, founders should get 7 more days before others" stop being greedy.
I love this game, but the community or should i say the "Forum Community" ruins the experience. Forums are supposed to be there to help people, not for endless Whining, Moaning, and such.
You guys think your "Helping", well your not...you are making things worse.
1.let the admins continue to find those that quietly use the exploit in the AH and ban their accounts etc
2.roll back from when it was brought out into trade chat - solved that issue
3.Compensate every toon on each shard with 5mil Ad and 1k zen. this will shut people up about the rollback(if it happens). They'll be 2 happy playing with the zen/Ad to care.
sure everything will go silly with all that ad/zen burning a hole in their back pocket (so to speak), but it will settle down within a week most likely... this will make everyone a win/win situation to perfectworld and everyone playing beta.
Good luck to the people working on this, I know it is difficult and hope it will turn out well in the end!
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here we go....
1) I very, very rarely comment on forums anymore. I've played most every major MMO since Ultima Online, and there's a reason that I now mostly solo until I can't any longer, and then move on. I honestly can't stand dealing with other people. That's what real life is for, and I play games to unwind from that. Not targeted at you, but just a little personal background.
2) I'll admit, I've only been playing for two days, on a free beta key, and haven't spent any money on the game yet. My understanding is that the game is in beta and I was waiting to drop my 200$ on the drow pack once I determined if I liked it. I'm currently level 16 with the only character I have built. Based on my experience so far, I'll most likely spend the cash in the next week or two.
3) Up to this point, and I speak as someone who had a rare three hours of uninterrupted game time lost (Servers dropped just as I was finishing Cloak Tower; boss was literally at less than 3% life), I have experienced only one glitch in a quest. I forget the name of it, but it was, I think, with Denelaith (sp?) not following me out of the sewers. After a restart, I ran back through, and it worked perfectly. I have beta'ed over a dozen games, and this is the most polished one I've ever seen. Granted, I've not come very far compared to the rest of you, but I'm a casual player. I'm a representative of the target demographic that, in our silent majority, pays the way for the games the power-gamer enjoys. Your hyperbole is a reaction of your current frustration, and I understand that, but I feel it does little to forward the positive progress of this game.
4) This is just a point for others out there that I have read in my lurking on these forums. I, and the hundreds of thousands like me, who have no compunction to post on these forums, or use the AH, or spend money (for now) on Zen or AD, are waiting to see how things unfold. I honestly don't care about the state of the "virtual economy". I use what my character can find. I care more about storyline and playability than some perceived advantage. Does another character have more money or equipment than I? I don't care. Let them enjoy it, as long as I can enjoy the game in my own right. I maxxed out on DDO at 14th level. Did I reach the max level? No. Did I have the awesome gear that someone else had? No. Did I enjoy the 3+ years I played the game? Absolutely! Maybe...just maybe...it's time for MMO players to stop comparing playstyles, gear, builds, and accomplishments, and learn to enjoy the experience. I've never been in a large guild, never had the best stuff, and in only one game have I achieved max level, but I love these games because they give me never-ending content. I used to have to pay monthly for that, and was glad to do it. Now I only pay for what I want. I have no room to complain. Do any of you? Really?
Flame away.