I'm a Guardian Pack Founder and I don't have the forum title so maybe you should actually get your fact straight before you go spouting off nonsense in a public forum which makes yourself look like a complete idiot in the process and subsequently devalues the rest of your points which may or may not have been legitimate.
Me too. And a support ticket to prove it for the looooong delivery time for the pack after purchase. Plus in game I have only chosen the "of Waterdeep" title.... not the founders title.
Etup was yacking about not sanitizing inputs. I come from a Database Architecture/Administration perspective.
Whoever is the Database Architect/Administrator who came up with a database model and didn't slap a constraint on the bids such that this couldn't happen, needs to be fired. immediately.
As a developer who works extensively with databases, I would like to offer this: Developers WILL find a way around the DBA's rules and policies, if they want to. And they will want to.
Constraining functional values at the database level is not always the best thing to do. It takes CPU time to check for these constraints, on every insert/update whatever, which is CPU time that should already have been spent in the front end. Also, by enforcing these constraints you run the risk of a mismatch between the database constraints and the UI constraints.
I'm not saying I agree with these practices, but I can understand them.
Do not do a wipe. I will quit. I will tell everyone who has played D&D with me in RL not to play this. They will listen to me, because I am their Dungeon Master. BTW - My group has no qualms about spending hundreds of dollars on anything that is D&D. Neither do the groups following all the other Dungeon Masters who spent weeks building Foundry quests. If a wipe removes our Foundry missions, this game is doomed. Trust me, gear grinders won't carry this game half as long as us publishers will. Plus, since they whine so much about the economy, most of them are actually totally against spending real money.
I am sure there will be no wipe.
The only reason they have this investigation is that it hurts their earnings.
They would never investigate an exploit that only granted gear honor gold. AD is convertable to Zen which is their earning.
Simple as that.
This game shouldnt have been released for at least 2months. It is nowhere near a release candidate for even a beta.
When was the last time you completed a dungeon without a glitch?
How many exploits have seen in a month that granted players unfair advantage ?
I'd expect an honest company to put the game server on hold for at least a month.
Fire the incompetent employers responsible for all these faults. Hire new ones and fix the game.
Pay back all customers and release the game when it is actually ready with a wipe.
If they do this i would buy any pack they sell even if i had no intention of playing the game just for the support.
But the truth is this will never happen !!! I would be surprised if they permanently ban a single exploiter .
Well I'm no expert but I think it could be possible to find the exploiters in the AH logs. Searching for all the - (minus) on the bids.
Unfrotunately not even close to being that simple. In many cases, the accounts used to perform the exploits will have transferred the ill-gotten gains to other accounts via a variety of means that will be harder to track. And the sheer volume of accounts likely to be involved (easy since registration is free) will make it many times more difficult.
Then you have to sort the scammers from those who were caught up in it. It's just a big mess. Wipe is a nuclear option and I don't think any company in this situation would have the balls to do it, but it's the only 'quick fix'. The other way is to do a few bans...tell everyone life is good...ride out the storm of bad PR for a few weeks, and then hope enough people stick around to get through the fiscal quarter.
Personally, I'm not putting a dime into this game until I see how PW is going to behave because one thing I feel pretty sure about is this won't be the last time something like this happens.
As much as I hate it without 100% full wipe I'm going to dispute on my transactions with PayPal. 3 weeks of lost gameplay is nothing I was planning to stick with the game for years to come hence my support but this is turning into a fraud.
You mean like the credit fraud that you and charezon are threatening to commit? As another person has already commented, you *have* gotten what you paid for (Zen points, Founder/Hero/Whatever bonuses, etc). I'm reminded of my own problem with GW2, and discovering that the Personal and Living Story storylines were (for me, at least), uncompletable because they end in mandatory dungeons. Do I regret spending the money? Yes. Do I have any real right, especially legally, to go demanding my money back after having made use of the product I paid for? Not a chance.
As a developer who works extensively with databases, I would like to offer this: Developers WILL find a way around the DBA's rules and policies, if they want to. And they will want to.
Constraining functional values at the database level is not always the best thing to do. It takes CPU time to check for these constraints, on every insert/update whatever, which is CPU time that should already have been spent in the front end. Also, by enforcing these constraints you run the risk of a mismatch between the database constraints and the UI constraints.
I'm not saying I agree with these practices, but I can understand them.
I agree. Database constraints are fine in theory. However in practice, they are almost never used. This is especially true in high volume environments. Transactions are a different matter, but I haven't implement database constrains in years and years...
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purlepenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 11Arc User
If someone could give a brief answer to this I would appreciate it as well.
People could put a negative price in the auction house, Say... I put a potion in for -10000 AD, I could buy it and it would give me both the item and the AD.
People doubled their AD each time each tiem they posted something basically
Do not wipe. I will quit, along with about every other serious Foundry publisher. We're the ones expected to carry the longevity of this game. Do not screw us for these whiney <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear grinders.
Do not do a wipe. I will quit. I will tell everyone who has played D&D with me in RL not to play this. They will listen to me, because I am their Dungeon Master. BTW - My group has no qualms about spending hundreds of dollars on anything that is D&D. Neither do the groups following all the other Dungeon Masters who spent weeks building Foundry quests. If a wipe removes our Foundry missions, this game is doomed. Trust me, gear grinders won't carry this game half as long as us publishers will. Plus, since they whine so much about the economy, most of them are actually totally against spending real money.
Do not do a wipe. I will quit. I will tell everyone who has played D&D with me in RL not to play this. They will listen to me, because I am their Dungeon Master. BTW - My group has no qualms about spending hundreds of dollars on anything that is D&D. Neither do the groups following all the other Dungeon Masters who spent weeks building Foundry quests. If a wipe removes our Foundry missions, this game is doomed. Trust me, gear grinders won't carry this game half as long as us publishers will. Plus, since they whine so much about the economy, most of them are actually totally against spending real money.
Good luck cryptic. Hope it works out. Hope to get back in game soon.
I really hate people that ruin it for everyone. Yes, Cryptic should have caught this one in testing. Still, report it and be done. Don't exploit and share it with your friends. This goes back to the parenting of these people and morality in general.
[Edit] Yech..speaking of bugs..I keep getting a response telling me I have to wait 30 seconds between submitting posts, but it turns out the post has already been posted (resulting in waiting and submitting as it 'appears' to be telling me actually causing a double post).
I agree. Database constraints are fine in theory. However in practice, they are almost never used. This is especially true in high volume environments. Transactions are a different matter, but I haven't implement database constrains in years and years...
Exactly this. I do occasionally employ constraints on most databases I use and/or develop, but they are of a different nature. They would check for some technical integrity that in no way should ever be overridden by the application (do not update record if record has not been processed by process X for instance).
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kitsynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 5
People could put a negative price in the auction house, Say... I put a potion in for -10000 AD, I could buy it and it would give me both the item and the AD.
People doubled their AD each time each tiem they posted something basically
Thank you. I had no idea what "the AH exploit" was. I'm glad they found and are fixing it, but I wish they'd quit finding and fixing things every single weekend, since that's pretty much the time I can play.
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brotherlytechMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do not wipe. I will quit, along with about every other serious Foundry publisher. We're the ones expected to carry the longevity of this game. Do not screw us for these whiney <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear grinders.
A character wipe, does not have to effect the foundry.
Do not do a wipe. I will quit. I will tell everyone who has played D&D with me in RL not to play this. They will listen to me, because I am their Dungeon Master. BTW - My group has no qualms about spending hundreds of dollars on anything that is D&D. Neither do the groups following all the other Dungeon Masters who spent weeks building Foundry quests. If a wipe removes our Foundry missions, this game is doomed. Trust me, gear grinders won't carry this game half as long as us publishers will. Plus, since they whine so much about the economy, most of them are actually totally against spending real money.
Epic post is epic.
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ixxlordMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Oh dear seems like they have encountered yet another problem
Do not wipe. I will quit, along with about every other serious Foundry publisher. We're the ones expected to carry the longevity of this game. Do not screw us for these whiney <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear grinders.
That's silly and most Foundry authors will NOT quit if they wipe. The good Foundry authors are loyal to the game and, frankly, have nowhere else to go. Having the game economy fixed is crucial for the longevity of the game. If this isn't fixed, people will leave in droves. Will some leave if they wipe, probably, but no where near as many as will leave with Trillions of Dollars of fake AD in the game totally destroying the economy for evermore and completely invalidating the 2 mil AD founders got or any real money that was spent so far on the game. The loyal fans who are planning on playing this game for years aren't going to quit over losing a couple of weeks of progress.
Wipe, reset AD and zen, and move forward.
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exile17Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
and this is why I wonder why people even watch streamers like Kripp who abuse exploits just so they can get better stuff faster then anyone else.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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alphedvonMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
will this be on cracked . com's new list of online rpg money glitch ******* moves by gold spamming websites that will take advantage of some glitch in someone elses hard work just to make a buck by farming AH and general <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that ruins the game for people who love it just bc they can play it?
Comments
Me too. And a support ticket to prove it for the looooong delivery time for the pack after purchase. Plus in game I have only chosen the "of Waterdeep" title.... not the founders title.
As a developer who works extensively with databases, I would like to offer this: Developers WILL find a way around the DBA's rules and policies, if they want to. And they will want to.
Constraining functional values at the database level is not always the best thing to do. It takes CPU time to check for these constraints, on every insert/update whatever, which is CPU time that should already have been spent in the front end. Also, by enforcing these constraints you run the risk of a mismatch between the database constraints and the UI constraints.
I'm not saying I agree with these practices, but I can understand them.
The only reason they have this investigation is that it hurts their earnings.
They would never investigate an exploit that only granted gear honor gold. AD is convertable to Zen which is their earning.
Simple as that.
This game shouldnt have been released for at least 2months. It is nowhere near a release candidate for even a beta.
When was the last time you completed a dungeon without a glitch?
How many exploits have seen in a month that granted players unfair advantage ?
I'd expect an honest company to put the game server on hold for at least a month.
Fire the incompetent employers responsible for all these faults. Hire new ones and fix the game.
Pay back all customers and release the game when it is actually ready with a wipe.
If they do this i would buy any pack they sell even if i had no intention of playing the game just for the support.
But the truth is this will never happen !!! I would be surprised if they permanently ban a single exploiter .
Unfrotunately not even close to being that simple. In many cases, the accounts used to perform the exploits will have transferred the ill-gotten gains to other accounts via a variety of means that will be harder to track. And the sheer volume of accounts likely to be involved (easy since registration is free) will make it many times more difficult.
Then you have to sort the scammers from those who were caught up in it. It's just a big mess. Wipe is a nuclear option and I don't think any company in this situation would have the balls to do it, but it's the only 'quick fix'. The other way is to do a few bans...tell everyone life is good...ride out the storm of bad PR for a few weeks, and then hope enough people stick around to get through the fiscal quarter.
Personally, I'm not putting a dime into this game until I see how PW is going to behave because one thing I feel pretty sure about is this won't be the last time something like this happens.
You mean like the credit fraud that you and charezon are threatening to commit? As another person has already commented, you *have* gotten what you paid for (Zen points, Founder/Hero/Whatever bonuses, etc). I'm reminded of my own problem with GW2, and discovering that the Personal and Living Story storylines were (for me, at least), uncompletable because they end in mandatory dungeons. Do I regret spending the money? Yes. Do I have any real right, especially legally, to go demanding my money back after having made use of the product I paid for? Not a chance.
I really don't want to do Helm's Hold anymore.....it's just such a bad design.
I agree. Database constraints are fine in theory. However in practice, they are almost never used. This is especially true in high volume environments. Transactions are a different matter, but I haven't implement database constrains in years and years...
People doubled their AD each time each tiem they posted something basically
holy batman, the dungeon master has spoken
ROFL
More AD on the market -> higher prices for goods in the AH -> Higher demand for Zen/AD conversion -> more dollars
Why ban exploiters? Even better ! Say you ban them, but keep the thin air created AD in the market.
Tinfoilhatwearer
I really hate people that ruin it for everyone. Yes, Cryptic should have caught this one in testing. Still, report it and be done. Don't exploit and share it with your friends. This goes back to the parenting of these people and morality in general.
Exactly this. I do occasionally employ constraints on most databases I use and/or develop, but they are of a different nature. They would check for some technical integrity that in no way should ever be overridden by the application (do not update record if record has not been processed by process X for instance).
Thank you. I had no idea what "the AH exploit" was. I'm glad they found and are fixing it, but I wish they'd quit finding and fixing things every single weekend, since that's pretty much the time I can play.
Because posting frequently on a forum is so *some incredibly long time ago date of your own making*.
humm...okay Thanks for sticking it to us !
That's silly and most Foundry authors will NOT quit if they wipe. The good Foundry authors are loyal to the game and, frankly, have nowhere else to go. Having the game economy fixed is crucial for the longevity of the game. If this isn't fixed, people will leave in droves. Will some leave if they wipe, probably, but no where near as many as will leave with Trillions of Dollars of fake AD in the game totally destroying the economy for evermore and completely invalidating the 2 mil AD founders got or any real money that was spent so far on the game. The loyal fans who are planning on playing this game for years aren't going to quit over losing a couple of weeks of progress.
Wipe, reset AD and zen, and move forward.