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10.7k Gear Score GF kicked from every random queue this morning

ceonnynceonnyn Member Posts: 28 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
Every random queue I got into this morning, as soon as I got into the dungeon I suddenly found myself kicked immediately without warning.

I also now only see LF 1 more cleric or LF 2 clerics or LF 2 CW or 1 more CW or TR in zone chat.

So, I'd say that it is safe to say that the community's impressions of what makes a successful dungeon are now fully entrenched in the NO GF/NO GWF mentality.

But hey, maybe there's some cool stuff in the cash shop???
Post edited by ceonnyn on
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    wingofbenuwingofbenu Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ceonnyn wrote: »
    Every random queue I got into this morning, as soon as I got into the dungeon I suddenly found myself kicked immediately without warning.

    I also now only see LF 1 more cleric or LF 2 clerics or LF 2 CW or 1 more CW or TR in zone chat.

    So, I'd say that it is safe to say that the community's impressions of what makes a successful dungeon are now fully entrenched in the NO GF/NO GWF mentality.

    But hey, maybe there's some cool stuff in the cash shop???

    50 dollar cleric companions?
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    imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Didn't you make a similar thread before and people suggested to you to build your own groups? I didn't check, so maybe that was someone else.

    Of course people in random groups will always look for the easiest way to get what they want, and that is two clerics that stack AS. There were threads from TRs who also get kicked, and GFs. You don't really need anything other than Clerics and CWs, but that is where playing with friends and guildies comes into play. My main is a CW, but I rarely do random groups, and it's not because of the class. You get nicer experiences if you play with hand-picked folks.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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    ceonnynceonnyn Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    Didn't you make a similar thread before and people suggested to you to build your own groups? I didn't check, so maybe that was someone else.

    Of course people in random groups will always look for the easiest way to get what they want, and that is two clerics that stack AS. There were threads from TRs who also get kicked, and GFs. You don't really need anything other than Clerics and CWs, but that is where playing with friends and guildies comes into play. My main is a CW, but I rarely do random groups, and it's not because of the class. You get nicer experiences if you play with hand-picked folks.

    Naw that wasn't me who made that thread.
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    flayedawgflayedawg Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    You get nicer experiences if you play with hand-picked folks.

    Truth, reiterated to enhance & reinforce truthiness.

    Go random ... get what you get. Go with friends or guildies ... get what you want. Win-win!
    Fare you well
    Let your life proceed by its own designs
    Nothing to tell
    Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
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    valythriosvalythrios Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Lol. GWF.

    lol

    Seriously though, either reroll or wait for this bad game to fix it -- if it ever does.
    F2P games are notorious for not doing jack-f*cking sh*t about the issues in their game.
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    wingofbenuwingofbenu Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    flayedawg wrote: »
    Truth, reiterated to enhance & reinforce truthiness.

    Go random ... get what you get. Go with friends or guildies ... get what you want. Win-win!

    doesnt really change the fact the class design is fundamentally broken just because your buddies will allow you to gimp their group.
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    soulwarrior78soulwarrior78 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 541 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    DPS GFs are amazing, I don't know why people wouldn't want a dps gf in their group. A dps gf can beat any other class. I suppose people just assume there's still some GFs that think tanking in this game is viable and haven't spec'ed dps yet.

    GWFs are also great in dungeons. I've done plenty of dungeons where the gwf was taking all bosses and still topping the dps charts.

    Having 2 clerics are easy mode indeed, but not necessarily a must. I've cleared every single T2 and CN with just 1 cleric, 1 dps gf, 2 cws and a rogue, and the dps gf sometimes gets replaced with a gwf.

    Of course, if someone actually goes tanking spec in a GF, obviously that person needs to go because in this game there's no such need or desire for a tanking gf, only dps.
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    thugmarthugmar Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This is a serious issue in the game. The meta has turned into such a horrible experience for anyone playing a fighter type that it is beyond unacceptable.

    Sure it is possible to do the game with one of these classes, but it is painful in comparison, and that is just flat out a game flaw.

    The reason the stigma exists, is because it is accurate, we as guardians are generally dead slots in our group compared to much stronger classes.

    Best of luck to you in finding a way to play that you enjoy. Personally I am playing with other toons and refusing to spend any more $ on this game until it is fixed. But in all truth I will probably just move on to a different game before they can be bothered to fix what I consider to be a truly unacceptable issue with class balance.
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    flayedawgflayedawg Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wingofbenu wrote: »
    doesnt really change the fact the class design is fundamentally broken just because your buddies will allow you to gimp their group.

    I didn't say it did. I suggested it as a method of avoiding the OP's issue with getting kicked from random groups. Whether or not the class design is fundamentally broken is a different issue.

    OTOH, when you play with friends, you don't think about them "gimping" your group, you simply enjoy the time you spend with them. Isn't that what playing with friends is for?
    Fare you well
    Let your life proceed by its own designs
    Nothing to tell
    Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
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    bman1978bman1978 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 130 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    Didn't you make a similar thread before and people suggested to you to build your own groups? I didn't check, so maybe that was someone else.

    Of course people in random groups will always look for the easiest way to get what they want, and that is two clerics that stack AS. There were threads from TRs who also get kicked, and GFs. You don't really need anything other than Clerics and CWs, but that is where playing with friends and guildies comes into play. My main is a CW, but I rarely do random groups, and it's not because of the class. You get nicer experiences if you play with hand-picked folks.

    +1 with ten characters
    valor.png
    Moonshadow Drow Cleric, Mr. Pickles Human Control Wizard, Ogre Hafling Guardian Fighter
    On Dragon Shard @bman78
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    wingofbenuwingofbenu Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    soulwarrior78 wrote: »
    DPS GFs are amazing, I don't know why people wouldn't want a dps gf in their group. A dps gf can beat any other class. I suppose people just assume there's still some GFs that think tanking in this game is viable and haven't spec'ed dps yet.

    GWFs are also great in dungeons. I've done plenty of dungeons where the gwf was taking all bosses and still topping the dps charts.

    Having 2 clerics are easy mode indeed, but not necessarily a must. I've cleared every single T2 and CN with just 1 cleric, 1 dps gf, 2 cws and a rogue, and the dps gf sometimes gets replaced with a gwf.

    Of course, if someone actually goes tanking spec in a GF, obviously that person needs to go because in this game there's no such need or desire for a tanking gf, only dps.

    the reason why is because dps doesnt matter.

    All you need is a cleric or two to keep everyone alive while the wizzard tosses things off the edge of cliffs, instagibbing them.

    combine that with GF tanking skills being largely non-functional, and you have why GWF and GF are sub-optimal for everything.
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    ceonnynceonnyn Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    soulwarrior78 wrote: »
    DPS GFs are amazing, I don't know why people wouldn't want a dps gf in their group. A dps gf can beat any other class. I suppose people just assume there's still some GFs that think tanking in this game is viable and haven't spec'ed dps yet.

    GWFs are also great in dungeons. I've done plenty of dungeons where the gwf was taking all bosses and still topping the dps charts.

    Having 2 clerics are easy mode indeed, but not necessarily a must. I've cleared every single T2 and CN with just 1 cleric, 1 dps gf, 2 cws and a rogue, and the dps gf sometimes gets replaced with a gwf.

    Of course, if someone actually goes tanking spec in a GF, obviously that person needs to go because in this game there's no such need or desire for a tanking gf, only dps.

    I had to go DPS in order to actually do dungeons since the other trees are broke. But people don't even wait to find out that I can do dps just fine. Anyways.
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    imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    wingofbenu wrote: »
    doesnt really change the fact the class design is fundamentally broken just because your buddies will allow you to gimp their group.

    Only the off-tanking aspects. If you take a dps GWF with you, he will contribute solidly to the run. I have played with some fantastic GWFs and would probably take one over a TR. It is probably true, though, that there are plenty of people who believe that GWFs suck, so they get kicked, even though it's not even an accurate perception (for dps). Posts like yours contribute to that (not Ceo's, since I think he accurately determines that it's mostly a result of perception rather than fact), so reinforcing the (in my opinion) false belief that GWFs are terrible becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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    tumolololtumololol Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well it shouldn't be needed to make ones own groups in order to even get through a dungeon. If a game is so badly designed that the usefulness of a class is equal to 0 in a dungeon compared to other classes, then even in a dungeon the good player trying to do his/her best would always feel like they're a waste of space. Especially the ones taking the GWF or GF for their respective supportive roles instead of wanting to go full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on the meters. Especially the lack of communication from their side is sad, I know devs shouldn't talk too much on class forums since it'd look like playing favourites with classes, however with a problem as **** as this they should show some extent of concern. The "just make your own groups", "just reroll" or even "GWF/GF are hybrid classes and shouldn't be good at anything but decent at everything" is bad exuses and reasons for this to go on... hell the CW and DC are hybrids but they don't suck balls, even if it wasn't for the knockback stuff.

    Anyways that's my 2 cents on this. Atleast it's F2P so I can just play some GW2 or Skyrim till the classes are balanced and end game content is fixed >_>
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    wingofbenuwingofbenu Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    Only the off-tanking aspects. If you take a dps GWF with you, he will contribute solidly to the run. I have played with some fantastic GWFs and would probably take one over a TR. It is probably true, though, that there are plenty of people who believe that GWFs suck, so they get kicked, even though it's not even an accurate perception (for dps). Posts like yours contribute to that (not Ceo's, since I think he accurately determines that it's mostly a result of perception rather than fact), so reinforcing the (in my opinion) false belief that GWFs are terrible becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    to be fair. its easy to see they have problems given a level 5 or so GWF struggles to kill earlygame quests that wizards/rogues run over, making it hard for anyone to even get into the class.

    and as I said before, dps isnt the concern I have. Its that no matter what dps GWF does, its pointless when Magey McMagerton just instagibs every mob with Black Hole shenanigans and launching things to their deaths over the edge of cliffs.
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    mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Sadly some people in the thread are missing the real issue, which simply put is that CW and TR (particularly the CW with the knock-back ability) are much much more useful than any GWF and GF. And of course DC especially with double astral stacking are extremely useful also.

    It is not that you cannot possibly do dungeons with a GF or GWF in the group, it is just that they are far inferior to the other choices. Hence the instant kicks of these classes in random groups. And even if you are in a guild and they let you play you GF or GWF many people want to contribute rather than be carried, and at present an equally well played and geared DC, CW or TR is much more useful than a GF or GWF.
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    flayedawgflayedawg Member Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    wingofbenu wrote: »
    to be fair. its easy to see they have problems given a level 5 or so GWF struggles to kill earlygame quests that wizards/rogues run over, making it hard for anyone to even get into the class.

    The first GWF I tried, I abandoned at level 6 because I couldn't get through quests. But I started one up yesterday, & for whatever reason he's basically steam-rolling his way through everything. Of course he's still only level 10, but I'm having no more trouble getting through those early quests than my TR did.

    I will concede that CWs seem horribly overpowered ... I got mine to 10th level & was so disgusted by the ez-mode gaming that I deleted the character & started the GWF instead.
    Fare you well
    Let your life proceed by its own designs
    Nothing to tell
    Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
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    imaginaryhawkimaginaryhawk Member Posts: 36
    edited May 2013
    I can see how on paper the GF class sounded great to the developers: shields allies from 50% of incoming damage and blocks that very damage with her shield; puts an aggro mark on every enemy decreasing their stats and blocks all their attacks to not let the mark fall off, thus allowing her allies to freely dps weakened foes.

    Too bad nothing works as intended: shield breaks within seconds of being attacked by adds and the protect allies skill is borked. Not to mention that it's far easier to just throw enemies off cliffs than to actually debuff them and fight them.
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    darkwingz88darkwingz88 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Get a guild.

    Rolling with pugs is always bad idea.
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    calaminthacalamintha Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    flayedawg wrote: »
    The first GWF I tried, I abandoned at level 6 because I couldn't get through quests. But I started one up yesterday, & for whatever reason he's basically steam-rolling his way through everything. Of course he's still only level 10, but I'm having no more trouble getting through those early quests than my TR did.

    Most likely because you are more experienced now. I could finish most <16 quests without using a healing potion on my TR.
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    soth007soth007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I play GF too, and I feel you pain. It is unfortunate but we currently have no place in t2 dungeons in the eyes of pugs. Very disappointing. Have started my reroll already, even though gf is the most fun class for me.
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    gunbahahagunbahaha Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 139
    edited May 2013
    ceonnyn wrote: »
    Every random queue I got into this morning, as soon as I got into the dungeon I suddenly found myself kicked immediately without warning.

    I also now only see LF 1 more cleric or LF 2 clerics or LF 2 CW or 1 more CW or TR in zone chat.

    So, I'd say that it is safe to say that the community's impressions of what makes a successful dungeon are now fully entrenched in the NO GF/NO GWF mentality.

    But hey, maybe there's some cool stuff in the cash shop???

    You deserve to be kicked. If you queue on that class you are a jerk. Why would you grief people like that and then put a complaint thread about it on the forum? Honestly, you're lucky you didn't get reported for AFKing dungeons since GF have no useful contributions to make to any group.
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    adevlin1991adevlin1991 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 56
    edited May 2013
    soulwarrior78 wrote: »
    DPS GFs are amazing, I don't know why people wouldn't want a dps gf in their group. A dps gf can beat any other class. I suppose people just assume there's still some GFs that think tanking in this game is viable and haven't spec'ed dps yet.

    GWFs are also great in dungeons. I've done plenty of dungeons where the gwf was taking all bosses and still topping the dps charts.

    Having 2 clerics are easy mode indeed, but not necessarily a must. I've cleared every single T2 and CN with just 1 cleric, 1 dps gf, 2 cws and a rogue, and the dps gf sometimes gets replaced with a gwf.

    Of course, if someone actually goes tanking spec in a GF, obviously that person needs to go because in this game there's no such need or desire for a tanking gf, only dps.

    You are so horrifically wrong on that point I don't think we are playing the same game. Rogues are by a huge margin the strongest dps class in the game, both aoe and single target. A fully dps geared and specced GF can't even come remotely close, the only time they have beaten CW,TR or GWF on dps is when GF were exploiting the broken set bonus.

    Unless you can pull 12k+ dps over an entire single target fight (which will never happen due to class mechanics) you are not going to come close to rogue damage. If I get a good bleed during my daily, I can pull 25k+ dps until my bleed drops.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg87F8RWVM << that is the sort of damage you can pull with good daily procs and a group that debuff stacks properly.
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    bejita231bejita231 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    flayedawg wrote: »
    Truth, reiterated to enhance & reinforce truthiness.

    Go random ... get what you get. Go with friends or guildies ... get what you want. Win-win!

    no.....friends taking pity on you and grouping with you doesnt change the fact fighters are a burden and useless in T1 and T2 content
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    soulwarrior78soulwarrior78 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 541 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    adevlin1991 wrote: »
    You are so horrifically wrong on that point I don't think we are playing the same game. Rogues are by a huge margin the strongest dps class in the game, both aoe and single target. A fully dps geared and specced GF can't even come remotely close, the only time they have beaten CW,TR or GWF on dps is when GF were exploiting the broken set bonus.

    Unless you can pull 12k+ dps over an entire single target fight (which will never happen due to class mechanics) you are not going to come close to rogue damage. If I get a good bleed during my daily, I can pull 30k dps until my bleed drops.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg87F8RWVM << that is the sort of damage you can pull with good daily procs and a group that debuff stacks properly.

    We often clear CN with a GF doing 42-45 million dmg, just 1-2 million behind the CW. And no one even uses any bugged 4-set bugged bonuses in the group. So, dps GFs can be quite good actually. I've only ever seen 2 good dps GFs since they fixed the 1-shot bug, so I understand that there's not many good dps GFs out there.
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    mohannmohann Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    Didn't you make a similar thread before and people suggested to you to build your own groups?

    So what are random groups and queues implemented for ? Dungeons should be designed in such a way, so the party without a tank (GF) can't complete them.
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    imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    (I only now realized that this is about GFs and not GWFs. Oops. I apologize and will now go and make a pot of coffee.)
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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    mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gunbahaha wrote: »
    You deserve to be kicked. If you queue on that class you are a jerk. Why would you grief people like that and then put a complaint thread about it on the forum? Honestly, you're lucky you didn't get reported for AFKing dungeons since GF have no useful contributions to make to any group.

    I do realise you are being ironic, but sadly this is so close to the truth that it hurts......
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    therealalientherealalien Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 72
    edited May 2013
    Running 2 Clerics and then the rest DPS is the most optimal way to do dungeons. With two Clerics, you can all stack up in the blue circles and LOL as you never go below 90% health. So while normal groups have to do bosses the correct way by dodging out of **** or kill adds. A group with 2 clerics, you can just stand in one spot and focus the boss then deal with adds at the end.
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    wingofbenuwingofbenu Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    (I only now realized that this is about GFs and not GWFs. Oops. I apologize and will now go and make a pot of coffee.)

    to be fair. theyre both pretty dire.
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