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I'm regretting buying the Founder's pack a little now I know how Zen works.
gezzer52
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 4 Arc User
Okay I first off have to say I started a character took him up to level 10 and really enjoyed the experience.
So much so I decided I'd be playing the game a lot so why not support it by buying a Founder's pack.
Well the real worth of virtual in game goods can be hotly debated a $700 value for $200 bucks sounded fair.
But let's break that down for a traditional MMO shall we? 200-50=150, okay that's the normal purchase cost taken care of. 150/15=10, so it's like 10 months of a regular subscription, but to be fair most MMOs give a reduced rate for a longer subscription so let's say a year and a half worth of subscription fees, okay still pretty good. As well MMOs have started selling premium versions for another 10-20, so there are some trade offs involved.
Now let's look at the extras I get. A mount, well I got one from Rift for pre-ordering both the original and the expansion (2 mounts). In fact most subscription based MMOs give all most all the mounts for in game currency. But still it's a nice mount, so it's cool. I get a pretty good weapon and a couple of enchants, plus a mystery level 60 item, okay still good. A nice panther pet to help with combat, okay pretty cool, but most MMOs have pet classes so it's not that big a deal. Then there's a few things that are alright but not major things for me like a respec, extra character slots, an exclusive race, a VIP "lounge" and VIP access. They're nice to have but I wouldn't lose any sleep over not having them. I also get some items of more dubious worth like a joke cape, and items for other games I'm not actually playing (which means more money to spend if I do), fire works, a costume set that really isn't what I'd want to have for an alternate costume for my character, and flash powder . Pretty much junk items to make it seem like there's more involved. My only question at this point is if each character I create get's all the in game loot or not. Haven't made a second yet so I don't know. In every other MMO like Rift it's account not character, but there's nothing saying which it is
But what really got me thinking was the 2,000,000 Astral Diamonds. In other words the stuff you normally have to pay real world money for, or so I thought. After playing Guild Wars 2 I thought I knew how the real money to in game currency thing worked and 2,000,000 looked pretty sweet. Well what I've now found out is the Diamonds are a in game currency that every one can get by doing different things and while 2,000,000 looks like a lot and a bit of a head start, when you consider that first off this currency is spent in game quite quickly. And the currency that really matters isn't Astral Diamonds anyway, it's Zen coins which BTW you can exchange AD for at about 1 Zen to 375 AD. So 2,000,000/375=5333.4 Which at the prices listed in the Zen market it really doesn't last that long. Add to that the fact that you actually need ADs for switching enchants so you can't spend them all on Zen anyway.
What finally kind of made my eyebrows raise was when I decided to find out how much buying more Zen would be. Well the only way to find out is to start the purchase process, and it's 5,400 for $50. GW2's gems are not nearly that expensive nor are their prices for stuff as high as Neverwinter's. And they made absolutely sure when I both took the AD and did the exchange for Zen that it was a one shot deal so it's really only good enough to use on the one character.
When I compare this to my other current MMO Rift. I paid 60 for a pre-order with a mount and lots of other stuff. I subscribe yearly for a $100 and get all sorts of veteran subscriber perks, like another 5 mounts, all sorts of gear, and this is just for the cost of subscribing. I pre-ordered the expansion for 50 and got a mount and a few other odds and ends, and this is for every character on my account. So for 2 years worth of playing has cost me a total of $310. I have played GW2 as I mentioned before so I know how easy it is to run up a bill playing a no subscription model. As well Neverwinter looks like buying Zen items is almost a necessity to really enjoy the game, while with GW2 it's more optional. For example I spent most of my GW2 Gems on dye packs. So I'm making a few rough calculations in my head with your pricing model and I can easily see spending another $100-$200 this year even if I'm careful. I'm really starting to see why so many games are going free to play, it looks like there's a lot more money to nickel and dime out of your player base.
So I'm not as thrilled with becoming a "Founder" as I first was. If instead I had received 1,000,000 AD and 5,000 Zen I think I would of felt I got my money's worth. Instead it feel's like the hook being set to reel in more of my money. Either that or I guess I'm going to have nothing but grey colored characters in game.
So much so I decided I'd be playing the game a lot so why not support it by buying a Founder's pack.
Well the real worth of virtual in game goods can be hotly debated a $700 value for $200 bucks sounded fair.
But let's break that down for a traditional MMO shall we? 200-50=150, okay that's the normal purchase cost taken care of. 150/15=10, so it's like 10 months of a regular subscription, but to be fair most MMOs give a reduced rate for a longer subscription so let's say a year and a half worth of subscription fees, okay still pretty good. As well MMOs have started selling premium versions for another 10-20, so there are some trade offs involved.
Now let's look at the extras I get. A mount, well I got one from Rift for pre-ordering both the original and the expansion (2 mounts). In fact most subscription based MMOs give all most all the mounts for in game currency. But still it's a nice mount, so it's cool. I get a pretty good weapon and a couple of enchants, plus a mystery level 60 item, okay still good. A nice panther pet to help with combat, okay pretty cool, but most MMOs have pet classes so it's not that big a deal. Then there's a few things that are alright but not major things for me like a respec, extra character slots, an exclusive race, a VIP "lounge" and VIP access. They're nice to have but I wouldn't lose any sleep over not having them. I also get some items of more dubious worth like a joke cape, and items for other games I'm not actually playing (which means more money to spend if I do), fire works, a costume set that really isn't what I'd want to have for an alternate costume for my character, and flash powder . Pretty much junk items to make it seem like there's more involved. My only question at this point is if each character I create get's all the in game loot or not. Haven't made a second yet so I don't know. In every other MMO like Rift it's account not character, but there's nothing saying which it is
But what really got me thinking was the 2,000,000 Astral Diamonds. In other words the stuff you normally have to pay real world money for, or so I thought. After playing Guild Wars 2 I thought I knew how the real money to in game currency thing worked and 2,000,000 looked pretty sweet. Well what I've now found out is the Diamonds are a in game currency that every one can get by doing different things and while 2,000,000 looks like a lot and a bit of a head start, when you consider that first off this currency is spent in game quite quickly. And the currency that really matters isn't Astral Diamonds anyway, it's Zen coins which BTW you can exchange AD for at about 1 Zen to 375 AD. So 2,000,000/375=5333.4 Which at the prices listed in the Zen market it really doesn't last that long. Add to that the fact that you actually need ADs for switching enchants so you can't spend them all on Zen anyway.
What finally kind of made my eyebrows raise was when I decided to find out how much buying more Zen would be. Well the only way to find out is to start the purchase process, and it's 5,400 for $50. GW2's gems are not nearly that expensive nor are their prices for stuff as high as Neverwinter's. And they made absolutely sure when I both took the AD and did the exchange for Zen that it was a one shot deal so it's really only good enough to use on the one character.
When I compare this to my other current MMO Rift. I paid 60 for a pre-order with a mount and lots of other stuff. I subscribe yearly for a $100 and get all sorts of veteran subscriber perks, like another 5 mounts, all sorts of gear, and this is just for the cost of subscribing. I pre-ordered the expansion for 50 and got a mount and a few other odds and ends, and this is for every character on my account. So for 2 years worth of playing has cost me a total of $310. I have played GW2 as I mentioned before so I know how easy it is to run up a bill playing a no subscription model. As well Neverwinter looks like buying Zen items is almost a necessity to really enjoy the game, while with GW2 it's more optional. For example I spent most of my GW2 Gems on dye packs. So I'm making a few rough calculations in my head with your pricing model and I can easily see spending another $100-$200 this year even if I'm careful. I'm really starting to see why so many games are going free to play, it looks like there's a lot more money to nickel and dime out of your player base.
So I'm not as thrilled with becoming a "Founder" as I first was. If instead I had received 1,000,000 AD and 5,000 Zen I think I would of felt I got my money's worth. Instead it feel's like the hook being set to reel in more of my money. Either that or I guess I'm going to have nothing but grey colored characters in game.
Post edited by gezzer52 on
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I am SO glad I changed it up with this one because I would be kicking myself in the rear right now.
Still i don't mine plus it helps out developers, i could of spend 200bucks on alot worse, Marvel Heroes lol diablo great game not spending 200bucks on that, theres other bad purchases out there as well.
like outfit, like all alts get box to get rare item at 60, having extra 12slot bag for all alts, nice effects on enchants I was actually not that disappointed and drows are really cool nice to stand out more until like end of June/July
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guardian pack - kinda worth it.
40 bucks on a armoured bear... SO INCREDIBLY WORTH IT CAUSE IT'S AWESOME.
Exactly. If you like the Menzo REnegade and spider then the founders pack is absolutely worth it. There is a good selection of nice things in the founders pack but to get your moneys worth you need to like the spider and renegade. From the first people pointed out that the Astral Diamonds where not a reason to buy the pack. And that was back when the founders pack only gave you 750K diamonds.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Pet - useless
Granted AD - a joke considering the people that exploited the game, they should have given us an amount of ZEN instead.
Total... not worth it.
Had you been around in April, the fouders pack would have gotten you access to 3 Beta weekends, followed by a 4th that was open to HOTN and Friends ONLY. It seems funny now but back then, before the game was out, people were scrambling around for keys to get into those weekends.
There was also early access for founders - again, worthless now but it was the breaker that got me buying a Guardian pack (my friend had HOTN) and was already playing when that first weekend came about.
I did some research and realised that the Guardian pack seemed to be the best option for me.
There's also these bonuses.
Blacklight Retribution
- Chronos hero
- Chronos Electronic Warfare skin
- Lilith hero
- Lilith Forest Dark skin
- 500 GP Token
- 10% GP Self-Boost, 7-day
- 200 GP Chance Pack
PWI
- 1 Dreamchaser Pack
- 1 Regal Owl Pet Egg
- 1 VIP Platinum Crown
- 1 Demon/Sage Event Card
Star Trek Online (more details here)
- Andorian Starter Pack
- Andorian Light Escort
- STO Starter Pack
RaiderZ
- 1 White Arrod
- 1 Scroll of Heroes [7 Days]
Jade Dynasty
- 1x Initiate’s Loot bundle
- Stygian Hunter mount
- Skyfall wings
War of the Immortals
- 1 Black Dragon
- 2 Level 5 Gem Chest
- 2 Level 3 Gem Chest
- 1 Sidecar
- 3 Gaia's Silver Chest
Battle of the Immortals
- 1 Spacecraft Mount
- 1 Griffin
- 1 Golden Salary Card
- 1 Fairy Wings (30 Day Expiration)
- 1 Penguin Suit (M)
- 1 Penguin Suit (F)
Forsaken World
- 1 Title Pack: Hero of The North
- 1 Acheron Founder
- 1 Aepelian Steed
- 1 Crimson Drake
- 1 Mercury Statuette
* Note: I've no idea what these things are worth, but I figure they're worth at least something..
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I'm not debating the value of digital goods, this is a really hard thing to decide. What is any virtual good worth in real life dollars?
But more how the AD to Zen coin works and how I thought the AD was the RL cash to purchasing goods medium not the Zen. If there was some Zen coins involved say 1,000,000 Ad and 5,000 Zen it'd be a much better value IMHO. As it stands now the conversion rate of AD to Zen, the real money cost of Zen and the prices in the Zen store are kind of out of line when compared to a normal subscription model MMO, like Rift for example, or much higher then in the only hybrid game I've played GW2. I can't help but feel that there's a "Skinner box" mentality at work with this game and even so called values like the Founder's pack is meant to suck a person in more then reward them.
Then again this is my first FtPMMO so I don't know if they all operate this way. If they do I really see why the "pay to win" moniker is hung on them. Seems like it's part of the formula and it could be real easy to spend way too much money for what I get compared to a subscription based game.
It's all subjective. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" (until it brings several friends along).
It also very much depends on your own definition of enjoyment. AD is a very useful medium of exchange for in game 'stuff', including cosmetic effects (reskinning armor and weapons to keep your character looking very different than everyone else running around town). Also useful as a time saver.
Just the horse that comes with the guardian pack (I have both founder packs, but prefer the aesthetics of the horse over the spider for my main character) is a time saver. Running back to turn in a quest without having to stop and fight the little mobs on the way, running back to a vendor, the bank, the postal courier and so on are all things that take far less time when mounted on the fastest mode of transport. Time equates to money. Saving time running around also equates to more time to do those things that are fun.
As for exchange rates, the 2 mil AD is worth more now that it was, since the exchange rates are moving down again. Personally, I thin of it as an 'investment'. I bought extra AD with zen back when I could get well over 400 AD per (in the first few days when other founders were cashing out). When the price drops low enough so that I can exchange say, 250 AD for 1 zen, then that's like free zen. That 'free zen' is what I use for buying zen store items (mostly cosmetics btw, like dyes). So from that aspect, in the long run that initial zen I spent ends up buying me zen items at 1/2 to 1/3rd the price in RL currency.
Very subjective tho, I can only compare to UO and SWG back when I had live accounts in both, plus paying for several of my kids as well. That was around 200 bucks per month for several years.
I think the AD is still good value considering how slow you get them.
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But just to reiterate, seriously that panther is worthless. I have a 60 control wizard, and the panther is maxed out at level 30, with runestones and gear in his slots....he still rarely attacks, and when he does, the swings are soooo slow, and only hits in the mid 100s. I use a cat companion now since my cleric can't take a hit. I put regen gear on the cat so it serves as a ghetto healer while still boosting my stats. However, that panther was never useful...even when I was doing the first questline after the tutorial.
Comparisons are often made to support an argument position and it's usually a straw-man or deflection.