How long does it take on average to create a foundry quest?

lonnehart · May 2013

I thought I'd ask after taking an hour just to create one map... spent most of that time on the dialogue just trying to make sure it all makes sense and stuff. Seeing and playing some of the better Foundry missions has made me curious... how long does it take to make a "good" foundry mission as opposed to one huge simple fightfest?

havocl · May 2013

Many hours. It took me couple of hours to set a map (place objects, npcs) and it will take couple more to script and make dialogs. This is one map. My third quest is going to have 5 maps.

In short, it's a lot of work and it will take many, many hours to make a good foundry quest that doesn't end before the 30min mark.

tilt42 · May 2013

I've spent AT LEAST 30 to 40 hours on each of my quests, and that's before the patching.

mattkire · May 2013

yeah many many hours. I've been on this third quest for at least 2 days (about 9-10 hours of creation time) and I am just really starting the quest. Remember, the more work and time you put into detail, the more enjoyable the quest will be for players and possibly the better rating in the end.

wuhsin · May 2013

tilt42 wrote: »

I've spent AT LEAST 30 to 40 hours on each of my quests, and that's before the patching.

Making a mental note to play your quests after I finish reviewing Zovya's. I know you two are going to give me more than a bunch of stacked mobs to grind through.

hflord1 · May 2013

Played for three weeks, weekdays I spend about 8 hours a day in foundry, so 40 hours a week. Published three quests...so takes me about 40 hours total per.

Ravenloft: The Hunger NW-DS7KH7X2T
Goblin Uprising NW-DMQRRFJYT

kamaliicious · May 2013

lonnehart wrote: »

I thought I'd ask after taking an hour just to create one map... spent most of that time on the dialogue just trying to make sure it all makes sense and stuff. Seeing and playing some of the better Foundry missions has made me curious... how long does it take to make a "good" foundry mission as opposed to one huge simple fightfest?

Depends on your definition of good and how many prefab maps you use. Prefab detailed outdoor maps are all set up with details, so you'd only need to add things specific to your story. If the player is only going to be in a map briefly, such as a map designed for transitional movement, it may not need much at all. No one's going to notice a detail hidden in a corner of a giant map when your story spawns the player right in front of who they need to talk to and then the player leaves the map, so why spend the time on that?

drakedge2 · May 2013

For me, quest 1 took about 52 hours at this point that's with the patching.

Quest 2 took right around 40 hours to make

Quest 3 took 72 hours to make, Limbo was a pain in the *** to build.

Quest 4 took about a week, the forest took the longest time, the ancient temple ruins took a while, the dungeon took a while.

hercooles130uscg · May 2013

My first quest has over 100 hours into it...and it takes about 19-20 minutes to complete (longer if you read more of the side dialogue)

My second quest...well I have spent about 10-15 hours just building one exterior map and putting in a few NPC and dialogue...thought its a ways off...and that is the map you spend very little time in(if you rush the quest that is)....so you get the idea.

Quick video showing an example of what takes me so long to build, this took me probably 10 hours to get to this state of the map, and that is before all the NPC and quest and optional side (lots of side) dialogue that I have in now. (watch it in HD)

That map was nothing but a blank valley with an empty stream bed. Every single tree, blade of grass, every object was hand placed. Even the village, which was the pre-made one, is heavily modified...notice that windmill? there is not a balcony on the original one, and that Inn alone took me about 4 hours to build from scratch. BUT I RAN OUT OF DETAILS BUDGET..jerks.

The first custom interior map(the first is a copy from the first quest, whew) for the same quest, which you spend even less time in, took me another 5 hours, and it is just one big room and a little room. the little of which you can see in my blackout demo video I did

Frankly I think I just like building maps more...if I could just build maps for other people, I might be satisfied. I have lots of great story ideas, but I have to stop making maps to type them out!

And yes, I did some shameless plugging of my content here, lol. But in truth, those two videos are for a quest that is still weeks away from release. i don't get to work on my content as much as I like, maybe 10-12 hours a week at most, because when I do log into the game, it is to do my reviews.

zovya · May 2013

Chapter 2 in my campaign that I hope to publish this week has 10 maps total. Just one map, I spent 60 hours working on.

coanunn · May 2013

zovya wrote: »

Chapter 2 in my campaign that I hope to publish this week has 10 maps total. Just one map, I spent 60 hours working on.

And this is why Zovya is a goddess to those of use who've played her maps! The first map in Assassin Chronicles just pops, it feels like I'm in a living breathing world.

I've spent upwards of 45 hours on the Dungeon Delve I have published, and it's less than half done. I've sank at least another 14 hours into the map in my signature to test Cryptic's nerf. I have a full other campaign that represents another 60 hours but will likely never see the light of publishing.. it's my learning tool.. I do stuff there to see how it works then put a polished version in the ones that get published.

That said, if you are just looking for a fun to play UGC dungeon crawl it could be done very quickly by using the prefab maps, the populate feature, clusters, and keeping the dialog light. I'd say you could churn out a decent dungeon crawl in around 20 hours that would actually be worth playing but would have no story.

bestarallin · May 2013

I currently have two and the first one i keep tweaking and adding things and the second is still in beta since there is a lot of stuff I want to do with it but not sure how to proceed so I try stuff out.

hercul33t · May 2013

It could take a long time depending on when you're satisfied with it. So 200 hours?

Or you could be like many map makers and spend maybe 2 hours tops creating outdoor fetch quests in a field ctrl-v 1500 mounds of dirt all over(because they think that's what makes a good map lol), stack mobs on every fetch node, make it a campaign and call it a day.

kamaliicious · May 2013

hercooles130uscg wrote: »

BUT I RAN OUT OF DETAILS BUDGET..jerks.

<Sarcasm> Hah! You still have 5 pips of detail left! And you lined stuff up! </sarcasm>

I'm sure you remember in Foundry beta when they cut the budget by about 80%, 5000->1500 details and changed details to not all cost 1 each. This map is about 40% of it's original size and a lot of map details had to get cut out. (Someone here still claimed my map making skills suck after playing the quest this is in, so there's that...)

yospeck · May 2013

I've spent over 100 hours making two maps and still haven't published anything. For those who of us who have put A LOT of time into Foundry missions we can instantly tell when running someone elses how much effort has been put in (usually not that much).

Making 'just another Foundry mission' is easy, making one that is memorable takes time, effort and creativity.

boydzinj · May 2013

This is a trick question. The real answer is a good map is NEVER finished. Three days after you publish it, you will think of a new way to do something... subtracting a texture, adding one, re-naming a specific encounter, re-naming or skinning a specific mob within the encounter, moving a texture 1 inch to the left... then right... then down...

eb2013 · May 2013

That's why I use a smaller map for outdoors. Unless your quest is going to use every part of that map most of it won't ever be seen. There is a cap on total detail placement for the entire quest, and hitting 1500 on one map is going to be a problem if you want to have more than a couple maps for the quest. I know a lot of people want to go for that big epic feel, but unless your quest makes use of the entire thing and it's not just a backdrop, players are going to feel like it's wasted space. I ended up having to streamline my first quest for that reason.

Now I'm not saying having a detailed map is a bad thing, but I've learned a few things:

1) Don't prioritize map making over storyline/objectives.
2) The length of the quest is tied to storyline/objectives not map size.
3) Encounters should not ever be more than 2/3 of the objectives.
4) A small streamlined map is best unless there is a point to all of it. A player running around a large map is going to assume there is something to find in each part of the map. If there is nothing to do with an objective it needs streamlining. What is fun to make as a DM is not necessarily fun to play as a player.
5) If you get several reviews saying the map sucks, remake it. The more negative reviews you allow yourself to get the less people will eventually play it. If the reviews are less than 3 stars overall, withdraw the quest until it's redone.
6) Don't be stingy with objectives. Players want to feel a sense of progress through a quest. I have over 20 objectives in my Tucker's Kobolds quest. If you send them off on a tangent let them know why they need to do that before they can complete the dungeon. Don't make the objectives seem random unless it is necessary for the storyline later on.

Once you get a good storyline and people are enjoying the quest, you can go back and add more details if you want. There's no point in spending 80+ hours on a quest that will end up taking 15 minutes to play. I average about 1 hour per minute of playtime. 80+ hours should get you a quest taking 80+ minutes to complete.

I'm not just blowing hot air. My quest went from mostly 3 star reviews with a couple 1-2 star reviews to mostly 5 star reviews with a couple 4 star reviews when I started thinking this way.

drakedge2 · May 2013

I understand the concept of "the vast majority won't see it, why put it there."

I put it there for the minority, the explorer, the lore hunter, sort of like a reward for their curiosity.

The main quest is there for the people that enjoy a good story, and if they choose to skip the additional content i put into my quests then that's fine that's their choice. If they choose to enjoy the optional content then kudos to them as well. It's an option, yeah it takes me more time to build the option but im happy to do it.

It's also led to some people asking for Space Chicken T-shirts lol, so ... maybe that's a thing.

zovya · May 2013

coanunn wrote: »

And this is why Zovya is a goddess to those of use who've played her maps! The first map in Assassin Chronicles just pops, it feels like I'm in a living breathing world.

Holy Moly! Thanks! When Chapter 2 gets published, I'm going back to Chapter 1 to bring it up to par.

tsumoro · May 2013

I am only just getting involved now in the map making business and I am enjoying it immensely. Itching to get on and tinker about with now, but the servers are down. I wish there was an offline mode haha.

So far on my first map I've made took me around 10 hours, that was spent just laying the maps and getting the objectives to work correctly. I also had a lot of help by kind individuals which helped speed my progress on how to tackle certain problems I was facing.

But even now after the objectives and everything is in place for the 'flow' of the quest to be enjoyed there is still a ton of text and art assets I need to play around with.

So for my first project, which is only going to be a little one to begin with is going to cost me around 20 hours hehe.

slaidz · May 2013

It should take as long as necessary.

coanunn · May 2013

drakedge2 wrote: »

I understand the concept of "the vast majority won't see it, why put it there."

I put it there for the minority, the explorer, the lore hunter, sort of like a reward for their curiosity.

For me at least, some things are in there because they are there for me.

I admit it, there are parts of my map the average player and the explorer alike may never see. The daggers stuck in a painting in a dark corner of a room where the goblins have been holding an accuracy game while on guard duty. A step stool off to one side that is there because the goblins took over the dungeon from someone else and can't reach the torches to light them without it. The old rusty weapons piled amid the trash in with the other refuse from killing people and throwing out their belongings.

They are there because to me they have to be. They give weight to the place, the encounter or the story that it doesn't matter if they are ever appreciated I feel like I told a whole story.

feuygar · May 2013

slaidz wrote: »

It should take as long as necessary.

This...

Don't rush it because players notice the small things being absent.

Also be prepared to invest 100 hours of your time and then realise that practically nobody will ever see it or play it. Not because it isn't great but because it's hidden in the mass of a 1000 other Foundry quests; Cryptic will always take the easy road rather than spend money on separating the wheat from the chaff.

If I can give one piece of advice, write it for you, noone else.

Feuygar

The Silver Scroll

wuhsin · May 2013

Back when I made Starcraft maps (for the first one, not the sequel) I learned quite a few lessons about designing games. Then later on as a Dungeon Master I learned a lot more. When I made a Starcraft map, I would spend hours a day for weeks on it. If I got burnt out on a map I was making, I'd take a break for a few days, watch some senseless cartoons to rejuvenate my fried grey matter, then get my neurons flaring and work on it a couple more weeks. When I became a Dungeon Master designing worlds, dungeons, characters, and stories consumed the majority of my time. Above all I try to have fun making it, because if it's not fun to make, chances are playing it won't be much better.

visigoth18 · May 2013

lol, dam...I guess it depends on how good you are at all the aspects of Quest creation.
Like I love making the Visual side "like maps and costumes...etc" But it takes me FOREVER to actually figure out Dialogue and plot progression and the like. "their defiantly not my strengths" XD but it's still fun!

wuhsin · May 2013

visigoth18 wrote: »

lol, dam...I guess it depends on how good you are at all the aspect of Quest creation.
Like I love making the Visual side "like maps and costumes...etc" But it takes me FOREVER to actually figure out Dialogue and plot progression and the like "not my strengths" XD but it's still fun!

Meh you can pull just about anything out of your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and people will love it if it's original. Just avoid using really stereotypical characters, make every NPC stand out some way. Make one zany, another funny, and then give the only serious one the most ridiculous name you can think of. People love a good laugh, if you can make them laugh you're golden.

visigoth18 · May 2013

I make stuff I Like/ want to play...so it takes the time that it takes :]
I'm not trying to just crank stuff out for the masses so it's ok if it takes me AGES lol
I seriously enjoy it...a little more then playing I think, haha

myrkolith · May 2013

It also depends on what type of quest you are trying to build really.

I've sunk about 90ish hours into my quest just on the first Map alone, I plan for it to have 4-5 maps before it's done (I didn't even know you could have 10 maps lol) Most of the time was just because I have been building all 3 Paths for the Adventure by hand, started with a blank outdoor map. Then I have basically been adding Dialogue, enemies, Terrain, Npc's etc for 3 quests worth in 1 Adventure lol.

It will take a longtime but I am enjoying creating so I don't care how long it takes, I'm having fun building it. Even if only friends and Guildmates ever play it, I'm fine with that.

wuhsin · May 2013

visigoth18 wrote: »

I make stuff I Like/ want to play...so it takes the time that it takes :]
I'm not trying to just crank stuff out for the masses so it's ok if it takes me AGES lol
I seriously enjoy it...a little more then playing I think, haha

Since I hit level fifteen I've only went up two levels, and that was from playing successful foundry missions as research for the quest I've spent the past week on. So yeah, I enjoy making quests WAY MORE than I do actually playing this game.

zahinder · May 2013

In all arts:

You put many details in that only other artists will fully appreciate.
People don't notice most of the details -- but they notice when they aren't there.
The HARDEST task for a creative type is deletion, and appreciating that sometimes less is more.

lonnehart · May 2013

Wow... lots of time. I guess I'll be working on my foundry quest for a long while... spare time is a luxury to me. O_O

How long does it take on average to create a foundry quest?

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