Which are those though? WoW is a pop-culture phenomenon, and even it is slowly bleeding users (I have no numbers of course, but I assume some of them end up in F2P games), and EVE is a textbook definition of a statistical outlier. What other subscription based MMOs make money?
Technically Eve Online is also P2W, because of plex, so that's not even a good example.
The problem with F2P, is simply that there's usually no way to limit one account per person. Granted technically you can't either in P2P, but the downsides are more muted thanks to it actually wasting money in the event an account gets blocked, along with the capability to blacklist specific payment information. Because of this, exploiters often can easily return without any real penalty, and it also empowers specific exploits related to multiple accounts (since that IS technically an exploit).
The problem with F2P, is simply that there's usually no way to limit one account per person. Granted technically you can't either in P2P, but the downsides are more muted thanks to it actually wasting money in the event an account gets blocked, along with the capability to blacklist specific payment information. Because of this, exploiters often can easily return without any real penalty, and it also empowers specific exploits related to multiple accounts (since that IS technically an exploit).
Clue: Stop focusing on punishment.
0
filcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Which P2P is banning ppl for multiple accounts?
I have more than one account in most of the P2P (subs) MMO's I played. Your argument fails...
/end of topic
0
kseniya1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
Which are those though? WoW is a pop-culture phenomenon, and even it is slowly bleeding users (I have no numbers of course, but I assume some of them end up in F2P games), and EVE is a textbook definition of a statistical outlier. What other subscription based MMOs make money?
FFXI has a sub and has lived for over 10 years.... with a good 500k to a million subs at all times
FFXI has a sub and has lived for over 10 years.... with a good 500k to a million subs at all times
FFXI is one of the only mmos the deserve to have a sub fee. I payed the sub for awhile just to go around and listen to all the amazing music before i quit.
FFXI is one of the only mmos the deserve to have a sub fee. I payed the sub for awhile just to go around and listen to all the amazing music before i quit.
Just admit it . You love the Tarutaru and nothing else.
I don't see anything about multiple accounts in NW TOS, do you?
I can't find the specific version of TOS I'm looking for (the one which pops up when you update/first start up Neverwinter) but regardless, it's a fact that having multiple accounts lets you bypass the 2 character per player limitation, as is intended without paying with Zen (otherwise they wouldn't have set that limitation to begin with). Hence exploit.
I can't find the specific version of TOS I'm looking for (the one which pops up when you update/first start up Neverwinter) but regardless, it's a fact that having multiple accounts lets you bypass the 2 character per player limitation, as is intended without paying with Zen (otherwise they wouldn't have set that limitation to begin with). Hence exploit.
Unless you provide me with TOS, where this is stated, your argument is fail...
you're complaning too much about something you really dont know, the game is new , and din't full released yet , the mods rank 5 + you can drop in game , for free , even firebrust mod or orther mods like this can be drop, and din't have any problem in fusions yet , also you can always use AD for Zen Trade system , what make me have about freeform slot in champions online , and 5 other premium archetypes , why this can't work here to get wards , or char slots , or even char rebuild ?
This game is P2W I though that topic was obviously clear to anyone. The P2W Situation ( 2x greater ench + epic mount ) isn't the only issue though if no the slightest. Over a week now people have been exploiting Castle Never and other top tier dungeons. Farming massive amounts of epics and selling them on the AH for steal. The first couple of days they were still quite expensive especially the GF set that led to this exploit. Now most if not all AD from this exploit have been moved to other accounts and/or sold to third partys( y, that's right the ADsellers spamming your zonechat are provided with AD from the playerbase. PWE isn't doing anything to prevent that. PWE beeing a chinese owned company and the AD-sellers beeing mostly chinese, I'm not even wondering;)).
So we have this situation with a totally broken and unusable economy, yet no official statement from PWe ( as far as I have seen. link, if there is one pls.)
i do about 16 k per day doing daily quest ( only 2 of then , daily foundry and daily domination pvp ) there 6 ( or more ) daily , in lvl 60 , you can earn 1k per run in skirmish events , and also take some in bless ( about 1500) ,so you just need to farm , like in any other games.
PS.: sorry for , my rusty english and for doble post
Preface... I hate that you can buy gear with money. But once that door is opened...
paying for the enchantments? You could. Farm for a year? You could. But give it time, game is not released yet even. Prices change. ONE model for 'free' games is to charge and arm and a leg for everything NEW or TOP etc, for a while, until the crowd that "will pay anything to have it NOW* are done buying it. Then it goes on sale and they release a new, "better" item at a high price for the "gotta have it" guys. Repeat to win. The free players can do very well with the older, cheaper stuff. Or wait and someone will sell the enchant for AD, the price will slowly fall, eventually you can afford it and sooner than you might think as the price falls over time.
Be patient. Farm your AD each day, and make an alt for every character slot you have to farm AD via prayer and whatnot even if you do not "play" them. Convert your AD to zen... 10 here, 10 there. I have already earned 250 or so zen from AD farming. Not much?? Its almost 1/2 a bank upgrade or 2 lootbox lotteries...
You can get good enchants from lockboxes, at $1.25 a try or, again, slowly over time. About 1/3 of them pay for the key with a 40k diamond loot, converted back to 100 zen, you are only out 25 cents worth. Its like a slot machine.... you lose money over time but eventually get your horse, crafting guys, enchantments, and companions. If you can do it off farmed AD, .... so much the better.
No mount here but I have won 1 high level enchant from the lootbox so far.
The biggest issue with this game's system is the pay to pvp system.
i make about 16 k per day doing daily quest ( only 2 of then , daily foundry and daily domination pvp ) there 6 ( or more ) daily , in lvl 60 , you can earn 1k per run in skirmish events , and also take some in bless ( about 1500) ,so you just need to farm , like in any other games
LOL. Well, there you go, even if you level as slow as is reasonable you still get to 60 in a week. And then if you want to level an alt, it's the same content again (Save for a single quest line). The people who say you can level slower have been proven wrong.
Gee, someone that actually speaks for ever single person in game. It took every single person that has been playing this game a week now to be level 60, so everyone in game by now that has been playing this game should have the equivalent of a lvl 60 character or better right? I know of several that absolutely do not!!! I know of several more that have been playing longer then I have even and even they do not have them yet. Some have paid good money to play this game and still have not. All encompassing statements make me laugh, as they prove the user of such statements wrong as soon as it is stated.
Still a non issue. You get what you paid for. Not being able to attain end-game is a valid complaint for a paid game, not F2P. Maybe it isn't really F2P then, but it doesn't change the facts that it isn't technically negative.
EDIT: just for analogy: Let's say a game which is supposedly F2P, but you can only properly complete a certain area if you paid $10 for the gear required to complete it. Is this any different from a game which outright stops you from entering said area unless you paid for an expansion pack?
At some point, you have to stop looking at this purely from a player's perspective and see that it benefits the dev to have more players playing and, in order to keep players playing, they need to have SOMETHING to do.
They want players to spend money on this game. A player NOT playing a game is historically highly unlikely to spend money on it.
It's not so much "access to the endgame" as simply having something to DO...
0
avalystforumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Now you are at an average of 320k per lesser plaguefire.
320k x 4 + 300k (more coalescent wards)
About 1.7mil for Plaguefire, now, why do you NEED anything past?
Theres not much tog rind for in this game after 60 if you have a brain, the only hard thing to get is a full t2 set and enchants.
Something has the remain hard, why do you need the VERY BEST ENCHANTMENTS in game?
You obviously sound like a nub who just hit 60 or isnt 60 at all.
Not to mention these enchanments aren't required for end-game at all.
I have over 10k GS WITHOUT the enchants, hell the armor/weapon enchants dont even boost my GS...
LEARN 2 PLAY
You obviously didn't read the Reddit post, go do your homework.
You're comparing apples and oranges, I was talking about Vorpal enchants, which is what every sensible CW should want, probably TR as well and maybe even GWF, haven't read up that much on their stats.
What you're basically saying is "There is an item that is cheaper that does something different, so you're wrong". Reality doesn't work that way, sorry.
At some point, you have to stop looking at this purely from a player's perspective and see that it benefits the dev to have more players playing and, in order to keep players playing, they need to have SOMETHING to do.
They want players to spend money on this game. A player NOT playing a game is historically highly unlikely to spend money on it.
It's not so much "access to the endgame" as simply having something to DO...
True, but that's not a problem with P2W, but a problem of lack of PvE content. The only solution to lack of PvE content is more PvE content.
Fortunately thanks to foundry, that lack isn't quite as large a problem as it could have been. Now, if the foundry had more options...
Here's the problem with the argument on reddit. The game has diminishing returns after 3000 -- recovery and crit for example. So even a big bump from enchantments isn't going to add that much.
0
avalystforumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Here's the problem with the argument on reddit. The game has diminishing returns after 3000 -- recovery and crit for example. So even a big bump from enchantments isn't going to add that much.
As I keep saying, those enchants aren't the problem They are cheap and rather easy to come by though farming. The issue is the special ones that you construct from shards. Mainly the one that gives 50% increased crit severity.
Yes enchants are really what looks like the most ulgy pay for power feature. 1% is just impossible, and of course wards for praying are hidden, you need to look for it... If it's intentional it's really dirty buisness. I don't mind if people pay for some more %, but being able to pay for 100% chance of success while people not paying for wards have almost 0% looks unfair and ridiculous. I remember a STO dev admitting that Cryptic made pay for power stuff but i don't remember seeing that level of pay for power in STO. In this game we pay for 10-15% better stats on our stuff. Here it's 50% mounts vs 110% ones, 1% fusion vs 100% chance, lvl 15 companions with 2 abilities vs lvl 30 ones with 3 abilities...
The gap is too big for me to think the game is fair. I don't mind paying for games, as long as I don't feel I'm cheating with stuff I buy from the store. I've spent something like 500 euros in one and a half year on STO and i'm not done with this game yet, but I think that I won't buy anything here because I don't like the business model, the prices, and the unfairness of the store. I will definitely vote with my wallet, even if i'm not raging in every single thread about it. You can also do it silently, once you've said what you have to say.
What would be fair to me? No mount under +80% speed. No fusion chance under 30-35%. Free companions with 3 spells.
0
terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Yes enchants are really what looks like the most ulgy pay for power feature. 1% is just impossible, and of course wards for praying are hidden, you need to look for it... If it's intentional it's really dirty buisness. I don't mind if people pay for some more %, but being able to pay for 100% chance of success while people not paying for wards have almost 0% looks unfair and ridiculous. I remember a STO dev admitting that Cryptic made pay for power stuff but i don't remember seeing that level of pay for power in STO. In this game we pay for 10-15% better stats on our stuff. Here it's 50% mounts vs 110% ones, 1% fusion vs 100% chance, lvl 15 companions with 2 abilities vs lvl 30 ones with 3 abilities...
The gap is too big for me to think the game is fair. I don't mind paying for games, as long as I don't feel I'm cheating with stuff I buy from the store. I've spent something like 500 euros in one and a half year on STO and i'm not done with this game yet, but I think that I won't buy anything here because I don't like the business model, the prices, and the unfairness of the store. I will definitely vote with my wallet, even if i'm not raging in every single thread about it. You can also do it silently, once you've said what you have to say.
What would be fair to me? No mount under +80% speed. No fusion chance under 30-35%. Free companions with 3 spells.
remember that Pay 2 Win is not the same as Pay 2 Grind less.
All those items CAN be earn via in-game (takes time) now the Pay 2 Win we have in NWN is all the Epic BoE (which is odd, since all other MMO all the end game are BoP even F2P models MMO follow this)
Comments
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
And maybe Darkfall? Not sure.
/end of topic
The problem with F2P, is simply that there's usually no way to limit one account per person. Granted technically you can't either in P2P, but the downsides are more muted thanks to it actually wasting money in the event an account gets blocked, along with the capability to blacklist specific payment information. Because of this, exploiters often can easily return without any real penalty, and it also empowers specific exploits related to multiple accounts (since that IS technically an exploit).
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Clue: Stop focusing on punishment.
I have more than one account in most of the P2P (subs) MMO's I played. Your argument fails...
/end of topic
FFXI has a sub and has lived for over 10 years.... with a good 500k to a million subs at all times
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
FFXI is one of the only mmos the deserve to have a sub fee. I payed the sub for awhile just to go around and listen to all the amazing music before i quit.
Just admit it . You love the Tarutaru and nothing else.
I cantaru stand FFXI for some reason. =(
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Unless you provide me with TOS, where this is stated, your argument is fail...
This is current TOS for PWE games - http://www.perfectworld.com/about/term
Ps
So we have this situation with a totally broken and unusable economy, yet no official statement from PWe ( as far as I have seen. link, if there is one pls.)
People with brains already left the game.
PS.: sorry for , my rusty english and for doble post
paying for the enchantments? You could. Farm for a year? You could. But give it time, game is not released yet even. Prices change. ONE model for 'free' games is to charge and arm and a leg for everything NEW or TOP etc, for a while, until the crowd that "will pay anything to have it NOW* are done buying it. Then it goes on sale and they release a new, "better" item at a high price for the "gotta have it" guys. Repeat to win. The free players can do very well with the older, cheaper stuff. Or wait and someone will sell the enchant for AD, the price will slowly fall, eventually you can afford it and sooner than you might think as the price falls over time.
Be patient. Farm your AD each day, and make an alt for every character slot you have to farm AD via prayer and whatnot even if you do not "play" them. Convert your AD to zen... 10 here, 10 there. I have already earned 250 or so zen from AD farming. Not much?? Its almost 1/2 a bank upgrade or 2 lootbox lotteries...
You can get good enchants from lockboxes, at $1.25 a try or, again, slowly over time. About 1/3 of them pay for the key with a 40k diamond loot, converted back to 100 zen, you are only out 25 cents worth. Its like a slot machine.... you lose money over time but eventually get your horse, crafting guys, enchantments, and companions. If you can do it off farmed AD, .... so much the better.
No mount here but I have won 1 high level enchant from the lootbox so far.
The biggest issue with this game's system is the pay to pvp system.
PS.: you can get 100k AD in about 4 days or less
for exmaple
buy plagurefire shards for 45-50k - buy 4 (200k)
Coalescent for combining 100-140k
Now you are at an average of 320k per lesser plaguefire.
320k x 4 + 300k (more coalescent wards)
About 1.7mil for Plaguefire, now, why do you NEED anything past?
Theres not much tog rind for in this game after 60 if you have a brain, the only hard thing to get is a full t2 set and enchants.
Something has the remain hard, why do you need the VERY BEST ENCHANTMENTS in game?
You obviously sound like a nub who just hit 60 or isnt 60 at all.
Not to mention these enchanments aren't required for end-game at all.
I have over 10k GS WITHOUT the enchants, hell the armor/weapon enchants dont even boost my GS...
LEARN 2 PLAY
At some point, you have to stop looking at this purely from a player's perspective and see that it benefits the dev to have more players playing and, in order to keep players playing, they need to have SOMETHING to do.
They want players to spend money on this game. A player NOT playing a game is historically highly unlikely to spend money on it.
It's not so much "access to the endgame" as simply having something to DO...
You obviously didn't read the Reddit post, go do your homework.
You're comparing apples and oranges, I was talking about Vorpal enchants, which is what every sensible CW should want, probably TR as well and maybe even GWF, haven't read up that much on their stats.
What you're basically saying is "There is an item that is cheaper that does something different, so you're wrong". Reality doesn't work that way, sorry.
Then don't play. Problem solved!
Fortunately thanks to foundry, that lack isn't quite as large a problem as it could have been. Now, if the foundry had more options...
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
As I keep saying, those enchants aren't the problem
The gap is too big for me to think the game is fair. I don't mind paying for games, as long as I don't feel I'm cheating with stuff I buy from the store. I've spent something like 500 euros in one and a half year on STO and i'm not done with this game yet, but I think that I won't buy anything here because I don't like the business model, the prices, and the unfairness of the store. I will definitely vote with my wallet, even if i'm not raging in every single thread about it. You can also do it silently, once you've said what you have to say.
What would be fair to me? No mount under +80% speed. No fusion chance under 30-35%. Free companions with 3 spells.
It only takes that long if you are completely inept.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
remember that Pay 2 Win is not the same as Pay 2 Grind less.
All those items CAN be earn via in-game (takes time) now the Pay 2 Win we have in NWN is all the Epic BoE (which is odd, since all other MMO all the end game are BoP even F2P models MMO follow this)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.