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The problem with the F2P Model.
avalystforum
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 15 Arc User
It takes ages to farm (Around a year) or costs around $400 to buy the epic enchantments that you get slots for at level 60.
Details here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1ebh17/details_of_the_possible_pay_2_win_aspects_no/
Details here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/1ebh17/details_of_the_possible_pay_2_win_aspects_no/
Post edited by avalystforum on
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actually most western made mmos even when they go f2p manage to stay out of the p2w scheme... typically they encourage you to subscribe, but never anything in them that makes or forces you to pay end game. Now some lock aspects of end game or limit it ala TOR but most of the games i've played are western based are not p2w in the least. Most avoid the ****ty enchantment system for other systems, or you can sub to avoid them entirely...
P2W is bad we all know its bad, most dont like it, and tons will leave. already had 1 friend up and quit do to the item shop, my other friends and i arent taking the game seriously anymore, are just basically freeloading at this point as we dont want to support a game that abuses the item shop like it does.
Are good mmos that avoid p2w and still make money
Then there are bad MMO's that opt for p2w for a quick buck
Can you guess which mmos have more players in them? here is a hint... people hate p2w and will jump ship or freeload rather then support it. I urge everyone to boycott the itemshop entirely, even if this game goes belly up...least that shows the publisher you cant pull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like this and get away with it.
This is the only real answer to be honest. your complaint is noted, now you have to cast your vote with your feet and/or wallet
But $400.00, at $15.00/month, is a little over two years.
Maybe if you didn't rush, rush, rush to hit the level cap you might have had more time to get ADs that you could convert into some gear. Maybe you spend a little more time using greens or maybe blues instead of thinking that purples should be waiting on you when you get to the cap.
And so then maybe in a year, you will have everything that you wanted and not be trying to make a big deal out of the fact that you could still get all of it without spending a penny of your own money.
So now, though, I guess that companies are supposed to spend money making games that you can not only play for free, but then also give you whatever you want for free, too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zJsrjOytG8
Its hard for both players and companies keeping players interested is hard, especially with the younglings who have an attention span of a gnat, and finding the right price whilst finding a way to pay everyone their salary and for the server.
For the players we have to have a lot of blind faith that things will get fixed, and work how they should if we buy things from time to time the game can stay afloat.
Did you....did you just use one of the most underrated sci fi shows of all time to make a wry comment on what I said?
I think I'm in love...
Sweet! In two years I can be done with dungeon content and start with raids! And what do you suggest I do during these two years? The same dungeons over and over again? Level alt after alt? Even if I listen to every single bit of voice acting and read every single bit of text I come across, do my dailies every day etc it will probably take less than a month to get to 60.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Actually voting with your wallet would mean playing the **** out of the game and not paying. That costs PWE money and sends a clear message that people aren't gonna buy their stuff. Meaning that they need to change.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
That's how I roll. At least so far, but with all the game-breaking exploits I have a feeling I won't be staying very long. Hoping to stick with it until release but Neverwinter is a harsh master.
Hmm, I think the real problem here is this assumption that 1. raids are the be-all/end-all of MMOs, and 2. that you "need" epic enchantments to do them.
and/or
One part of the rational solution, is not exclusive to the other. No one is stopping you from playing and not paying a red cent at the moment if that's how you want to protest, but players in an MMO are content and you're making the experience of those that throw money at this game more justifiable. If that's ok to you then so be it. But don't think that your presence doesn't in some way benefit PWE in an indirect way.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
As for my method of protest, since I am just chiming in - don't mind me- I prefer the old saying, "LET THE GALAXY BURN!"
(I'll pay for reconstruction.)
The be-all/end-all of MMOs is up to each player to decide. For some people it's leveling alts, for others story or PvP or RP or whatever else you like. That's the charm of an MMO. For me it's somewhat hardcore PvE and that way of playing the game is looking like it could be broken by this model. Of course beta is beta and it's all subject to change but I'm not holding my breath.
As for the need of enchantments, no one has the answer there. I have never claimed that these will be needed, I have claimed that they will give you an edge over people who don't have them, something which is a fact. I have also claimed that the edge is rather large as it stands now, with current gear, something which might change. The largest issue here is that Cryptic has explicitly said they will be making really hard dungeon content and looking at their current content that will most likely mean hard as in you will need good gear, not hard as in having a high learning curve.
Oh, of course it shouldn't. It should only be attainable by the people willing to fork out several hundred dollars or spend years farming. That's how it really SHOULD work! My point about this maybe being a non-issue remains, if these enchants aren't required (Explicitly or otherwise) to do raiding and other end-game content it's not really a that big a problem anymore.
Of course, quitting is also a legit way
EDIT: just for analogy: Let's say a game which is supposedly F2P, but you can only properly complete a certain area if you paid $10 for the gear required to complete it. Is this any different from a game which outright stops you from entering said area unless you paid for an expansion pack?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
So you're fine with the end-game costing over a year of your time (That is if you play 8 hours/day every single day) or around $400? This is of course provided that these enchants will be required, which none of us can know.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
The cost is variable and really depends on the market on a given server. It can cost a LOT more than 400 USD and it can also cost a lot less.
It's really about the AD->Zen conversion which means it all depends on how many pathways Cryptic allows you to make AD. If they keep it as it is now you can probably earn 150k a day while spending less than a hour but it's a pretty stupid method that just makes me sigh.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Yes, of course we don't know if it will be required. Either way it will probably be implicit in that case, taking the form of gear score you can't reach unless you enchant these or encounters you can't beat unless you get the improved damage these enchants bring. But I cannot stress this enough: At the moment no one but Cryptic knows, I have simply raised it as a possible problem with what looks to be how they intend to make money.
I'd call that a trial. Just like WoW, it's F2P up to level 20 or so. I'd be fine with paying for this, either through an expansion pack or gear being required if the amounts of money were more reasonable. $400 is about 2 years of subscription for a regular game, that's a lot of time.
I listened to all voice acting (didn't do all the dailies though) and it took me a week to hit lvl 60.
Yes no one knows. But what I'm trying to say is that it's a non-issue. F2P has their content, enjoy it for what it is. People who P2W might be able to enjoy tougher content faster or easier, but that does not in any way affect the content of F2P players, at least not directly, and not necessarily negatively; that entirely depends on the balance of the game.
Then consider this a trial then. You get to enjoy runes and enhancements up to Rank 5, and slow mounts. People who paid gets to enjoy higher level runes and enhancements, faster mounts, whatever.
The issue of it costing $400, that's not really the concern of those people who gets to play free, is it.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
LOL. Well, there you go, even if you level as slow as is reasonable you still get to 60 in a week. And then if you want to level an alt, it's the same content again (Save for a single quest line). The people who say you can level slower have been proven wrong.
YES! Exactly! I'm fine with them charging for this if it's a reasonable amount of money.
Well then, that's more of an issue with game balance and market dynamics, and not a direct issue with the P2W model. Unfortunately, current market dynamics seems to suggest that enough people actually would pay that much to get to that level, or at least I assume the marketing guys are actually looking at the game records and doing their jobs.
As for me, I'm content to let those people enjoy their easy end game, while hoping that they make some changes to ensure that PvP stays balanced.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Which are those though? WoW is a pop-culture phenomenon, and even it is slowly bleeding users (I have no numbers of course, but I assume some of them end up in F2P games), and EVE is a textbook definition of a statistical outlier. What other subscription based MMOs make money?