Can we please stop referring to PvP? GWF have burst. They are also gimmicky in the fact that they basically require a certain enchant to perform at their peak. People in this thread need to realize that PvP will never be balanced properly, as it is a group scenario, whereas PvE is where min-maxers thrive and where there is need for a serious rethink on roles.
WHAT? You want to nerf rogue dps in a pve environment? Really? Please elaborate.
Or are you in a wrong thread or attempting to derail?
As the title say's. I don't play a rogue, never have and really never plan to. It's been my experience that in every game rogues/assasins always, ALWAYS, start out as OP, this game is no different. Generally, i am not a fan of nerf's, of any kind. This usally just leads to what is refered to as "flavor of the month" classes/specs.
With this being said, i have been in several groups now at end game and they are, for the most part, 1 cleric (me), 2-3 rogues and a CW, or 2 rogues and 2 CW's. No tank, no GWF. You would think that these would be fail groups, specialy in a boss fight, you would be wrong. The amount of damage rogues put out is nothing short of amazing, can't put it any other way. I drop my Astral shield, and rogues literaly stand toe-to toe with bosses and crush them. Trash mobs don't stand a chance, they kill them faster then i can run buy and pick up loot. seen it to many times and i can't imagine this is "working as intended", where 2 other classes are literaly "not required" for end game content, and one of them is the tank !
As a side note, if the npc rogues/assasins are any indication as to what the pc rogues/assasin's do, as far as dps. Then yes they deff. need some balancing. Even the npc rogues are like fighting elites and god forbid you get any adds while fighting them.
I play a rogue, yes, but they definetly dont need any change. A CW witch if CONTROLE, not even suposed to outdamage a rogue, can do 4,000,000 dmg when i do 4,500,000 in a whole dungeon, thats is to me NORMAL, and not overpowered. And your ''rogue'' that survive dungeon w/o tank obviously drink a lot of potion and/or are lvl 30 .. wait till you get lvl 60 and talk about rogue tanking boss... Man my rogue die with spiderling if there is 5 around me and i cant hide they kill me so fast .... No i dont want to see my damage reduced as it would me more death/potion drinking for me..
thats w/o talking the fact that i do need to run/hide from combat to wait for my potion cooldown to drop to 0 (unless i got a cleric of course) But againts 5 player boss, dont ask me to tank or im dead...
Rogue ARE SUPOSED to do more damage... thats it , thats all...
Founder back a week ago, already pissed by cryptic ''no roll back'' decision
Notice how the first person to mention PVP was breagandaerth's in the first line of his first post going on how good he is on his CW in PvP and dominates TR. I think he is just trying to get some attention, and likes being able to tell the OP to "Learn the game better than comeback and post again." because I can't imagine why else he keeps bringing up PvP in a PvE discussion.
This is silly. So you were in a group probably a low level dungeon and you flew through it? Any class makeup can do that. As a side not I was in an all rogue group doing a dungeon final boss it couldn't be done. We didn't have a tank or a healer. It was around level 50 or so. If rogues were so overpowered how come we didn't just destroy it. We got to the end but wiped several times on the way there and the final boss couldn't be killed.
I think this is just some silly attempt to masquerade a nerf to a class based on pvp. If you think the class is overpowered and you are serious about wanting a nerf do this. Form your own group with everything but rogues. Let the rest of us enjoy having a dps in the party.
I play a rogue, yes, but they definetly dont need any change. A CW witch if CONTROLE, not even suposed to outdamage a rogue, can do 4,000,000 dmg when i do 4,500,000 in a whole dungeon, thats is to me NORMAL, and not overpowered. And your ''rogue'' that survive dungeon w/o tank obviously drink a lot of potion and/or are lvl 30 .. wait till you get lvl 60 and talk about rogue tanking boss... Man my rogue die with spiderling if there is 5 around me and i cant hide they kill me so fast .... No i dont want to see my damage reduced as it would me more death/potion drinking for me..
thats w/o talking the fact that i do need to run/hide from combat to wait for my potion cooldown to drop to 0 (unless i got a cleric of course) But againts 5 player boss, dont ask me to tank or im dead...
Rogue ARE SUPOSED to do more damage... thats it , thats all...
This is my thoughts exactly. I doubt they were running anything over level 30 and any group makeup will steamroll the lower stuff. They have no idea how challenging the game becomes at higher level.
Notice how the first person to mention PVP was breagandaerth's in the first line of his first post going on how good he is on his CW in PvP and dominates TR. I think he is just trying to get some attention, and likes being able to tell the OP to "Learn the game better than comeback and post again." because I can't imagine why else he keeps bringing up PvP in a PvE discussion.
Outperforming and dominating are two different things. I am not trying to get any attention. I am pointing out that each class has its own function. However it is only as good as the person behind the keyboard.
I can't imagine your serious about a nerf for pve. Never even heard of such a thing on a mmo. If the class is so overpowered roll one up and get back to us on how you solo t2 epic on your uber rogue.
Also pay attention to the people looking for more in a t2. Why are they asking for tanks if a tr can do it. This whole notion that a rogue is the end all is ridiculous. Just a fail attempt on getting tr some kind of nerf for pvp.
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zupobafonoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've played rogue in all my stand-alone games, and I plan to play them online as much as I can too. And you're right, the first cry to nerf is always about rogues and always from non-rogues.
Actually, this is wrong (and so are you). Right now I'm hearing the cry for rogue nerfs from rogue players. In my circle, it's only the rogue-players who want to see them nerfed. They can see everyone else running around unloading every ability we have while they spam one or two -- standing in place -- and still get the top damage.
Moreover, it's irrational to assume at this juncture with such an overwhelming amount of the player-base playing the same class that there just happens to be a noisy minority of people who don't "get it." You really think that all the rogue players are in agreement? Hahaha...
The nice thing about "always" is how easy it is to discredit. In WoW it was Paladins, in TR it was the tanks, and CoH it was the Stalker people wanted to see buffed. The idea that it's always the rogues that people "cry to nerf" is malarkey.
Nerfs will just create an angry population of TR rogues. Why risk people quitting the game? It's best to just give a buff to tanks, healers and GWF's so they'd be more competitive. Rogues are fine as they are. CW's are fine as they are. It's the 3 other classes that are in need of good boosts for their roles.
(A) This isn't WoW. If you want a game that buffs-to-balance till everything homogenized within 5%, that's the game for you. Cryptic has never employed this method because in their games there's value in rerolling.
(B) CW's are not fine the way they are late game. Their damage wanes and their ability to wipe adds no longer shines, and most bosses (even minibosses) are immune to CC.
(C) If they simply boost *every* class to the Rogue's level of performance we will have no reason to think. We will simply roll over everything while holding down our left mouse button. Then they have to boost the difficulty. So we're talking about what, 3-5 elements of the game that need to be balanced instead of just balancing this 1??
Actually, this is wrong (and so are you). Right now I'm hearing the cry for rogue nerfs from rogue players. In my circle, it's only the rogue-players who want to see them nerfed. They can see everyone else running around unloading every ability we have while they spam one or two -- standing in place -- and still get the top damage.
Moreover, it's irrational to assume at this juncture with such an overwhelming amount of the player-base playing the same class that there just happens to be a noisy minority of people who don't "get it." You really think that all the rogue players are in agreement? Hahaha...
The nice thing about "always" is how easy it is to discredit. In WoW it was Paladins, in TR it was the tanks, and CoH it was the Stalker people wanted to see buffed. The idea that it's always the rogues that people "cry to nerf" is malarkey.
(A) This isn't WoW. If you want a game that buffs-to-balance till everything homogenized within 5%, that's the game for you. Cryptic has never employed this method because in their games there's value in rerolling.
(B) CW's are not fine the way they are late game. Their damage wanes and their ability to wipe adds no longer shines, and most bosses (even minibosses) are immune to CC.
(C) If they simply boost *every* class to the Rogue's level of performance we will have no reason to think. We will simply roll over everything while holding down our left mouse button. Then they have to boost the difficulty. So we're talking about what, 3-5 elements of the game that need to be balanced instead of just balancing this 1??
You guys probably should stop taking the troll bait; breagandaerth is clearly just trolling.
Why would you wanna nerf a class because they're doing well in PVE though?
You aren't supposed to be competing against one another in PVE. You're supposed to work as a team.
I would've thought having a damage dealer is nice - takes a load of your shoulder while you do other things.
Maybe I was wrong
I'm all for MORE nerfs to my class (TR) but I expect nerfs to everyone else as well. Nerf healing, Nerf CC, Nerf tanking, Nerf defense. All a rogue has is damage...it's what we do and we should do it better than everyone else.
Why would you wanna nerf a class because they're doing well in PVE though?
You aren't supposed to be competing against one another in PVE. You're supposed to work as a team.
I would've thought having a damage dealer is nice - takes a load of your shoulder while you do other things.
Maybe I was wrong
It's because there's a "damage total" at the end of the dungeon. MMOs are all about the Epeen now sadly and not about finishing hard content as a group.
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altoidzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
lol, someone is still level 30
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orangerascalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
So op is complaining about his astral shield keeping rogues alive through bosses (must be pre-60). That tells me that maybe they should nerf astral shield?
Too bad no one cares about pre 60 balancing. And everything at 60 seems about right.
If you take away the damage, a rogue is a sub-par fighter. For some reason (hmm) we cannot pick locks. Most traps are simply avoided rather than disarmed. We cannot pick pockets either. There is no sense in a scouting type build in this game as it is just a hack and slash apart from a few of the better foundry modules. ALL the rogue can do in 99% of this game is kill ONE target with high damage. Take away the high damage, and what is the purpose of the rogue after that? Reduce the dps by much, and GWF, mage, or cleric are all a 100% replacement with better skills due to aoe being very useful in most boss fights.
While it is possible to make oddball groups work with skilled players, or over-geared players, so what? A full group of clerics can beat most fights, should they be nerfed?
I play a rogue, yes, but they definetly dont need any change. A CW witch if CONTROLE, not even suposed to outdamage a rogue, can do 4,000,000 dmg when i do 4,500,000 in a whole dungeon, thats is to me NORMAL, and not overpowered. And your ''rogue'' that survive dungeon w/o tank obviously drink a lot of potion and/or are lvl 30 .. wait till you get lvl 60 and talk about rogue tanking boss... Man my rogue die with spiderling if there is 5 around me and i cant hide they kill me so fast .... No i dont want to see my damage reduced as it would me more death/potion drinking for me..
thats w/o talking the fact that i do need to run/hide from combat to wait for my potion cooldown to drop to 0 (unless i got a cleric of course) But againts 5 player boss, dont ask me to tank or im dead...
Rogue ARE SUPOSED to do more damage... thats it , thats all...
i did say "end game content" didn't i? My point in "balancing" is this: top dps, fine, wheres the trade off? top dps and great survivability? no trade off, no balance.
This is my thoughts exactly. I doubt they were running anything over level 30 and any group makeup will steamroll the lower stuff. They have no idea how challenging the game becomes at higher level.
again please read my opening statement, in-particular the part about "end-game content".
So op is complaining about his astral shield keeping rogues alive through bosses (must be pre-60). That tells me that maybe they should nerf astral shield?
Too bad no one cares about pre 60 balancing. And everything at 60 seems about right.
does anybody understand what "end-game content" means? or what level it is?
does anybody understand what "end-game content" means? or what level it is?
So what you're saying is at level 60 your astral shield changes the squishiest class in the game to a tank ... and you think the problem is with the rogue class :rolleyes:.
If you take away the damage, a rogue is a sub-par fighter. For some reason (hmm) we cannot pick locks. Most traps are simply avoided rather than disarmed. We cannot pick pockets either. There is no sense in a scouting type build in this game as it is just a hack and slash apart from a few of the better foundry modules. ALL the rogue can do in 99% of this game is kill ONE target with high damage. Take away the high damage, and what is the purpose of the rogue after that? Reduce the dps by much, and GWF, mage, or cleric are all a 100% replacement with better skills due to aoe being very useful in most boss fights.
While it is possible to make oddball groups work with skilled players, or over-geared players, so what? A full group of clerics can beat most fights, should they be nerfed?
once again, i'm not calling/asking for any nerfs to dps, i said "balancing". It appears few people actualy understand the meaning here. By balancing i mean, for example, take clerics. I have good survivability, low dps (balance). take rogues, high dps-high survivability- no balance. I hope this helps clarify.
So what you're saying is at level 60 your astral shield changes the squishiest class in the game to a tank ... and you think the problem is with the rogue class :rolleyes:.
yes, my shield does block some damage, not all but a good portion i'd say. Still in no way should this let a TR tank a boss. A glancing blow from a boss should do major damage to a TR, let alone several direct hits or a cpl crits.
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orangerascalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
yes, my shield does block some damage, not all but a good portion i'd say. Still in no way should this let a TR tank a boss. A glancing blow from a boss should do major damage to a TR, let alone several direct hits or a cpl crits.
Got news for you bub no rogue can take 2 hits from a t2 boss. Hence they use stealth, dodges and other encounters. The only reason the rogue tanks the boss is because the tank is busy scooping the 50 adds and the GWF and CW are busy killing them. You can easily replace the rogue with a DPS GF who will do less damage but whose survivability is greater with more margin for error.
Your problem is that your mind is stuck in the Tank, Healer, DPS triad which does not exist in action mmo's. This is not WoW or other such mmos.
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strawberrydeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I think the only thing that needs to be changed is the aggro tables for the classes. GF is supposed to be a tank but I have yet to see one be able to hold aggro. GWF is also a defender class and they hold aggro better than the main tank, GF.
TR are supposed to do the damage they do. I guess no one realizes that TR are extremely squishy when they arent dodging correctly.
CW arent much different. They do high damage but till other trees come out, they focus on controlling mobs, keeping them away from cleric who is absolutely necessary.
I play GWF, Rogue, Cleric, and CW. While yes I have noticed as GWF my damage output on single targets is extremely pathetic compared to a rogue, get a group of mobs together (which I thought GWF role was to tank and kill boss adds???) I put out damage much greater than a single target rogue. I have topped DPS charts many times.
People screaming about how a GF or GWF isnt needed, well no one but a cleric is really needed and maybe even not that when the players themselves are good at what theyre doing. Specially in mid-tier dungeons. I ran Throne of Idris as me [rogue], my husband [cleric], and our friend [GWF] and while it took like 50mins we solo'd the entire dungeon by ourselves.
I think the classes are balanced the way they should to fit their current roles. Things will change though when the second class trees, and maybe even third arrive. I cannot wait for the diversity.
"Good and Evil are simply a matter of perspective, but if you must define me, I would definitely not be under Good. Who wants to lick the bottom of a shoe their whole life? Not I." - Valandra
Got news for you bub no rogue can take 2 hits from a t2 boss. Hence they use stealth, dodges and other encounters. The only reason the rogue tanks the boss is because the tank is busy scooping the 50 adds and the GWF and CW are busy killing them. You can easily replace the rogue with a DPS GF who will do less damage but whose survivability is greater with more margin for error.
Your problem is that your mind is stuck in the Tank, Healer, DPS triad which does not exist in action mmo's. This is not WoW or other such mmos.
once again, reading comprehension would be prefered here, i believe i stated in my OP that GW's and GWF's wern't needed in end-game content. This is the whole point of the thread. At the moment "my problem" is that i'm concerned that a large part of the community is or has failed there reading and comprehension equivilancy tests.
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orangerascalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
once again, reading comprehension would be prefered here, i believe i stated in my OP that GW's and GWF's wern't needed in end-game content. This is the whole point of the thread. At the moment "my problem" is that i'm concerned that a large part of the community is or has failed there reading and comprehension equivilancy tests.
More news for you bub, as someone mentioned no class is really needed except the cleric.
GWF is greatly needed in T2 dungeons as they save precious minutes of my life by killing the numerious trash mobs quicker than a rogue or CW can, 2 would be even better so my group can triple pull packs. A CW is needed for one skill and one skill only, singularity which is required for almost t2 bosses. If the GF isn't needed why do the groups farming castle never using the, :rolleyes: (aside from the obvious GF exploit)
Your statement: Rogues are OP because when I cast astral shield on them they tank bosses is so laughable that I shudder when I think about it.
More news for you bub, as someone mentioned no class is really needed except the cleric.
GWF is greatly needed in T2 dungeons as they save precious minutes of my life by killing the numerious trash mobs quicker than a rogue or CW can, 2 would be even better so my group can triple pull packs. A CW is needed for one skill and one skill only, singularity which is required for almost t2 bosses. If the GF isn't needed why do the groups farming castle never using the, :rolleyes: (aside from the obvious GF exploit)
Your statement: Rogues are OP because when I cast astral shield on them they tank bosses is so laughable that I shudder when I think about it.
Just did a T2 , grp was 2 clerics, 2 rogues and one CW. Was a breeze. I'm also starting to think that your density level could not be calculated with modern tech. I never said anyone was OP, and i'm getting tired of asking you to actually read what i did say.
i play the rogue and only did good in about 5 of the somewhat 15 games i played, im either being blocked, spam controlled, or fighting someone healing faster than my DPS....dont suggest anything for a class you NEVER played...should nerf stupidity if anything
i play the rogue and only did good in about 5 of the somewhat 15 games i played, im either being blocked, spam controlled, or fighting someone healing faster than my DPS....dont suggest anything for a class you NEVER played...should nerf stupidity if anything
i'm guessing your talking about pvp? I am not, seriously are all rogues unable to actually read and comprehend? is that why so many ppl play the "ez" class?
i'm guessing your talking about pvp? I am not, seriously are all rogues unable to actually read and comprehend? is that why so many ppl play the "ez" class?
But remember every time someone is outDPSed in PvE or one-shot by a TR, it is always a 'L2play issue' because TR players are so much better than those of any other class.......
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orangerascalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Just did a T2 , grp was 2 clerics, 2 rogues and one CW. Was a breeze. I'm also starting to think that your density level could not be calculated with modern tech. I never said anyone was OP, and i'm getting tired of asking you to actually read what i did say.
Each class has its own advantages and disadvantages. As mentioned before, your healer/tank/dps idealogy is flawed because this is an action mmorpg. A rogue can tank the boss, and so can the GWF, cleric and wizard because of the dodge mechanic. You say I'm dense but multiple people have told you this and you still don't get it .... I guess one should look in the mirror first huh?
You don't need a GWF, GF and you don't need a rogue either. The only class you really need is a cleric. If anything the most fair thing do is provide each class with a healing mechanic like they did with GW2, then you can bring any combination of classes. But this would not go with the neverwinter lore.
Each class has its own advantages and disadvantages. As mentioned before, your healer/tank/dps idealogy is flawed because this is an action mmorpg. A rogue can tank the boss, and so can the GWF, cleric and wizard because of the dodge mechanic. You say I'm dense but multiple people have told you this and you still don't get it .... I guess one should look in the mirror first huh?
You don't need a GWF, GF and you don't need a rogue either. The only class you really need is a cleric. If anything the most fair thing do is provide each class with a healing mechanic like they did with GW2, then you can bring any combination of classes. But this would not go with the neverwinter lore.
/sigh, you make my point for me. The whole point of the post was/is that the 2 classes that are supposed be the "defenders" are virtualy not needed. I honestly don't know how i can make it any clearer. I have absolutly no problem what so ever with rogues doing the most dps, none. But doing the most dps AND tanking? really? you think this is "working as intended"?
If it is indeed "working as intended" then why have GF's and GWF's at all? what's the point? I mean given the choice who/why wouldn't you choose the character that can do it all?
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orangerascalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
/sigh, you make my point for me. The whole point of the post was/is that the 2 classes that are supposed be the "defenders" are virtualy not needed. I honestly don't know how i can make it any clearer. I have absolutly no problem what so ever with rogues doing the most dps, none. But doing the most dps AND tanking? really? you think this is "working as intended"?
If it is indeed "working as intended" then why have GF's and GWF's at all? what's the point? I mean given the choice who/why wouldn't you choose the character that can do it all?
You're right, why bother having rogues or control mages as well because 5 clerics can do any instance ... right. :rolleyes:
Haven't you heard variety is the spice of life. GWF clear trash mobs much quicker than any other class in the game saving precious minutes of your life. GF absorbs a shed load more damage which means less change of a wipe. But you keep covering your ears going WAH WAH WAH WAH instead of listening to numerous people that have said the same thing.
The fact that you don't need set classes to do eveything is a good thing.
Comments
WHAT? You want to nerf rogue dps in a pve environment? Really? Please elaborate.
Or are you in a wrong thread or attempting to derail?
I play a rogue, yes, but they definetly dont need any change. A CW witch if CONTROLE, not even suposed to outdamage a rogue, can do 4,000,000 dmg when i do 4,500,000 in a whole dungeon, thats is to me NORMAL, and not overpowered. And your ''rogue'' that survive dungeon w/o tank obviously drink a lot of potion and/or are lvl 30 .. wait till you get lvl 60 and talk about rogue tanking boss... Man my rogue die with spiderling if there is 5 around me and i cant hide they kill me so fast .... No i dont want to see my damage reduced as it would me more death/potion drinking for me..
thats w/o talking the fact that i do need to run/hide from combat to wait for my potion cooldown to drop to 0 (unless i got a cleric of course) But againts 5 player boss, dont ask me to tank or im dead...
Rogue ARE SUPOSED to do more damage... thats it , thats all...
This is silly. So you were in a group probably a low level dungeon and you flew through it? Any class makeup can do that. As a side not I was in an all rogue group doing a dungeon final boss it couldn't be done. We didn't have a tank or a healer. It was around level 50 or so. If rogues were so overpowered how come we didn't just destroy it. We got to the end but wiped several times on the way there and the final boss couldn't be killed.
I think this is just some silly attempt to masquerade a nerf to a class based on pvp. If you think the class is overpowered and you are serious about wanting a nerf do this. Form your own group with everything but rogues. Let the rest of us enjoy having a dps in the party.
This is my thoughts exactly. I doubt they were running anything over level 30 and any group makeup will steamroll the lower stuff. They have no idea how challenging the game becomes at higher level.
Outperforming and dominating are two different things. I am not trying to get any attention. I am pointing out that each class has its own function. However it is only as good as the person behind the keyboard.
I can't imagine your serious about a nerf for pve. Never even heard of such a thing on a mmo. If the class is so overpowered roll one up and get back to us on how you solo t2 epic on your uber rogue.
Also pay attention to the people looking for more in a t2. Why are they asking for tanks if a tr can do it. This whole notion that a rogue is the end all is ridiculous. Just a fail attempt on getting tr some kind of nerf for pvp.
Actually, this is wrong (and so are you). Right now I'm hearing the cry for rogue nerfs from rogue players. In my circle, it's only the rogue-players who want to see them nerfed. They can see everyone else running around unloading every ability we have while they spam one or two -- standing in place -- and still get the top damage.
Moreover, it's irrational to assume at this juncture with such an overwhelming amount of the player-base playing the same class that there just happens to be a noisy minority of people who don't "get it." You really think that all the rogue players are in agreement? Hahaha...
The nice thing about "always" is how easy it is to discredit. In WoW it was Paladins, in TR it was the tanks, and CoH it was the Stalker people wanted to see buffed. The idea that it's always the rogues that people "cry to nerf" is malarkey.
(A) This isn't WoW. If you want a game that buffs-to-balance till everything homogenized within 5%, that's the game for you. Cryptic has never employed this method because in their games there's value in rerolling.
(B) CW's are not fine the way they are late game. Their damage wanes and their ability to wipe adds no longer shines, and most bosses (even minibosses) are immune to CC.
(C) If they simply boost *every* class to the Rogue's level of performance we will have no reason to think. We will simply roll over everything while holding down our left mouse button. Then they have to boost the difficulty. So we're talking about what, 3-5 elements of the game that need to be balanced instead of just balancing this 1??
You guys probably should stop taking the troll bait; breagandaerth is clearly just trolling.
Why would you wanna nerf a class because they're doing well in PVE though?
You aren't supposed to be competing against one another in PVE. You're supposed to work as a team.
I would've thought having a damage dealer is nice - takes a load of your shoulder while you do other things.
Maybe I was wrong
It's because there's a "damage total" at the end of the dungeon. MMOs are all about the Epeen now sadly and not about finishing hard content as a group.
Too bad no one cares about pre 60 balancing. And everything at 60 seems about right.
While it is possible to make oddball groups work with skilled players, or over-geared players, so what? A full group of clerics can beat most fights, should they be nerfed?
somone has no reading comprehension
So what you're saying is at level 60 your astral shield changes the squishiest class in the game to a tank ... and you think the problem is with the rogue class :rolleyes:.
yes, my shield does block some damage, not all but a good portion i'd say. Still in no way should this let a TR tank a boss. A glancing blow from a boss should do major damage to a TR, let alone several direct hits or a cpl crits.
Got news for you bub no rogue can take 2 hits from a t2 boss. Hence they use stealth, dodges and other encounters. The only reason the rogue tanks the boss is because the tank is busy scooping the 50 adds and the GWF and CW are busy killing them. You can easily replace the rogue with a DPS GF who will do less damage but whose survivability is greater with more margin for error.
Your problem is that your mind is stuck in the Tank, Healer, DPS triad which does not exist in action mmo's. This is not WoW or other such mmos.
TR are supposed to do the damage they do. I guess no one realizes that TR are extremely squishy when they arent dodging correctly.
CW arent much different. They do high damage but till other trees come out, they focus on controlling mobs, keeping them away from cleric who is absolutely necessary.
I play GWF, Rogue, Cleric, and CW. While yes I have noticed as GWF my damage output on single targets is extremely pathetic compared to a rogue, get a group of mobs together (which I thought GWF role was to tank and kill boss adds???) I put out damage much greater than a single target rogue. I have topped DPS charts many times.
People screaming about how a GF or GWF isnt needed, well no one but a cleric is really needed and maybe even not that when the players themselves are good at what theyre doing. Specially in mid-tier dungeons. I ran Throne of Idris as me [rogue], my husband [cleric], and our friend [GWF] and while it took like 50mins we solo'd the entire dungeon by ourselves.
I think the classes are balanced the way they should to fit their current roles. Things will change though when the second class trees, and maybe even third arrive. I cannot wait for the diversity.
More news for you bub, as someone mentioned no class is really needed except the cleric.
GWF is greatly needed in T2 dungeons as they save precious minutes of my life by killing the numerious trash mobs quicker than a rogue or CW can, 2 would be even better so my group can triple pull packs. A CW is needed for one skill and one skill only, singularity which is required for almost t2 bosses. If the GF isn't needed why do the groups farming castle never using the, :rolleyes: (aside from the obvious GF exploit)
Your statement: Rogues are OP because when I cast astral shield on them they tank bosses is so laughable that I shudder when I think about it.
Just did a T2 , grp was 2 clerics, 2 rogues and one CW. Was a breeze. I'm also starting to think that your density level could not be calculated with modern tech. I never said anyone was OP, and i'm getting tired of asking you to actually read what i did say.
i'm guessing your talking about pvp? I am not, seriously are all rogues unable to actually read and comprehend? is that why so many ppl play the "ez" class?
But remember every time someone is outDPSed in PvE or one-shot by a TR, it is always a 'L2play issue' because TR players are so much better than those of any other class.......
Each class has its own advantages and disadvantages. As mentioned before, your healer/tank/dps idealogy is flawed because this is an action mmorpg. A rogue can tank the boss, and so can the GWF, cleric and wizard because of the dodge mechanic. You say I'm dense but multiple people have told you this and you still don't get it .... I guess one should look in the mirror first huh?
You don't need a GWF, GF and you don't need a rogue either. The only class you really need is a cleric. If anything the most fair thing do is provide each class with a healing mechanic like they did with GW2, then you can bring any combination of classes. But this would not go with the neverwinter lore.
/sigh, you make my point for me. The whole point of the post was/is that the 2 classes that are supposed be the "defenders" are virtualy not needed. I honestly don't know how i can make it any clearer. I have absolutly no problem what so ever with rogues doing the most dps, none. But doing the most dps AND tanking? really? you think this is "working as intended"?
If it is indeed "working as intended" then why have GF's and GWF's at all? what's the point? I mean given the choice who/why wouldn't you choose the character that can do it all?
You're right, why bother having rogues or control mages as well because 5 clerics can do any instance ... right. :rolleyes:
Haven't you heard variety is the spice of life. GWF clear trash mobs much quicker than any other class in the game saving precious minutes of your life. GF absorbs a shed load more damage which means less change of a wipe. But you keep covering your ears going WAH WAH WAH WAH instead of listening to numerous people that have said the same thing.
The fact that you don't need set classes to do eveything is a good thing.