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"Open Beta" Review
ms18instachi
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 9 Arc User
So I've been messing around with the "Open Beta"... I use that in quotation marks because this game isn't actually in Open Beta, its been released. No matter what the Devs, or fan boys think this game has been released. These days the term Open Beta gets thrown around, when the company needs money or wants more people interested in their game...
I have gotten to lvl 40 and I must say there are a few good things about the game, and ALOT of negative things. For instance Devs cant fix a simple thing like Cleric Threat issues... No wonder hardly no one plays Cleric.. I can cast 2 spells and have the aggro across the whole room...
The lvl 30+ dungeons are super easy, until you get to the last boss, then its time to wipe for an hour because the boss is too hard...
Respecs... Don't even get me started... You have to pay 6$ for a respec... What were you guys smoking when you decided to do this... So this means... You either have to pay money or completely remake a character. Everyone who plays this game is either going to have to do hours of research first on their character just to get the correct build with no wasted skills. ( As a cleric I have already wasted a few points into useless talents, I know when I hit 60 I will have to pay to respec)
I have been trying to get my friends to play, but they wont they tell me its a waste of time to play a game from Cryptic Studios because it will be dead in under a year and I'm beginning to think they are telling the truth.
Ok.. here are some positives, the combat is fun, I love the pvp ( the once in 50 games where one team doesn't go completely afk). I love the foundry system and would like to one day do it myself.
The lvling is at a fast pace, although I wish we would get to see more of the world, instead of just 1 small area of it.
I have gotten to lvl 40 and I must say there are a few good things about the game, and ALOT of negative things. For instance Devs cant fix a simple thing like Cleric Threat issues... No wonder hardly no one plays Cleric.. I can cast 2 spells and have the aggro across the whole room...
The lvl 30+ dungeons are super easy, until you get to the last boss, then its time to wipe for an hour because the boss is too hard...
Respecs... Don't even get me started... You have to pay 6$ for a respec... What were you guys smoking when you decided to do this... So this means... You either have to pay money or completely remake a character. Everyone who plays this game is either going to have to do hours of research first on their character just to get the correct build with no wasted skills. ( As a cleric I have already wasted a few points into useless talents, I know when I hit 60 I will have to pay to respec)
I have been trying to get my friends to play, but they wont they tell me its a waste of time to play a game from Cryptic Studios because it will be dead in under a year and I'm beginning to think they are telling the truth.
Ok.. here are some positives, the combat is fun, I love the pvp ( the once in 50 games where one team doesn't go completely afk). I love the foundry system and would like to one day do it myself.
The lvling is at a fast pace, although I wish we would get to see more of the world, instead of just 1 small area of it.
Post edited by ms18instachi on
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A vivid cone of clashing colors springs forth from his hand, causing creatures to become stunned, perhaps also blinded, and possibly even knocking them unconscious.
ms18instachi, Roll savings throw against Magic. You need a 14 or better.
Beta is defined as having most of the major systems and functionalities implemented but still in a late testing phase while full implementation is still around the corner. An example would be the Foundry not yet having all the original monsters available, glitches in server stability, or patching of content to avoid major glitches stopping players from being able to complete content.
"Soft Launch" and "Launch" are attributes the community which does not understand the terminology are attempting to apply to a piece of software in a Beta State in order to justify their rage and discredit the company they are raging toward. I totally understand that many people think it unethical to charge while a product is still in Beta. And you've got a fine position to argue that point from.
That doesn't change the fact that the game itself is still in a Beta State.
-Rachel-
Could you give us an example on your code for threat issues in the MMO you developed? I mean its a simple fix right?
Nope, but I guarantee you that if WoW had some problem with threat tables they would fix it with a hotfix, instead of waiting for a whole new patch. Cleric in dungeons is nearly broken.
You can guarantee it? Do you work for blizzard then? And if so go ask your Dev buddies to show the code where it would be so easy to fix.
With that logic we can go on and say that Diablo 3 is still in beta. Have you played League of Legends? That game is still "beta" how long have League been out for now? Oh ye, since 2009.
Clearly still a Beta!!
The real definition of a Open Beta is when the game goes from internal testing (closed) to test on a bigger scale of players (open), but to be able to really get called a Open Beta the game HAS to RELEASE within a certain timeframe after the open beta but as we both know today companies use the "open beta" title to hide behind because most games now that is MMO's NEVER get out of open beta.
This is a new trend and its sad that ppl are so gullible to believe it. Sorry I don't mean to attack you on a personal level steampunky but I know that even you know deep inside taht the open beta title is something that the companies today hides behind so they won't have to work as much as they had to back in the day when everything was full release.
Neverwinter will never get out of open beta just like League of Legends
It's never "Simple" unless it is. I realize that's a strange phrase, but it remains true.
-Rachel-
I just imagined Oprah saying this.
What a ******* you are... Let's Say Threat for Clerics is ###, how about making a hotfix that reduces the threat by 50% would that be hard? They seem to have threat fixed in every other mmo they have made, Whats so hard about this game?
Wrong. The Code State changes. There may be balancing and patches after launch, but launch occurs. As someone who works with software engineers on a routine basis: Trust me. This is a Beta State game. It could even be argued that it is late Alpha State, since one the major functions (Network Connectivity) is still having such massive issues as to crash the server farm.
It isn't a launch state.
-Rachel-
There is a huge issue though, as a Control Wizard in a dungeon I spend 85% of my time chasing the pug cleric around, aoeing the adds that attack her/him constantly. I only have occasionally small windows to shift my attention to the boss. If the cleric goes down, I immediately get all of the aggro even from mobs I never attacked.
The threat tables are broken, I have a GF main and trying to keep check of all the mobs in the boss "phases" where they zerg you with mobs are a nightmare. Sometimes you are lucky and get the ocasionally "Tank" GWF in a pug that can just control all the adds while I keep aggro on the boss/the most dangerous champion packs.
But tanking in this game and also healing... is a fricking NIGHTMARE. It's broken.
You really think something like that would be so easy to fix in an online environment? Just go in and plop down a code thats says NOPE 50% LESS THREAT GUYS, and then everything is magically fixed because thats how coding works.
Im not saying there isnt a problem with threat in the game and it does need to be addressed, but its not just a "simple fix"
So when will it release then? Never?
It's not that I mistrust your expertise but I've been around playing enough MMORPGs, Mobas and MMO to have learned that companies of today are too scared of getting negative critique so that they just slap their "Open Beta" logo on their product and in fear of getting bad reviews never removes it because then they can just go on blaming it on " - But guys.., its open beta.. its beta guys.. no its really beta". 10 years later: "- its still beta guys its not our fault."
I see it more and more every **** day and companies esp game developing F2P devs are getting lazier and lazier. But thats the thing though; if this game had a "real release" now then they would get so much hate for not fixing stuf like the aggro, the lame boss phases etc that its just better for them PR wise to not remove the open beta title.
But this game is not getting its "full release" for a long time and it has nothing to do in what state their code is just as League of Legends will continue to be a beta until it dies. It's just more cost efficient to call it a open beta.
If this were a Real Open Beta there would be character wipes when the game is Released, it would probably be the best too because of all the exploiting that has been going on for the past weeks.
Never said it was a Easy fix, but as it is now its unplayable for me. I don't need "tank n spank, tank have all aggro forever and healer spam heal tank" gameplay. I like it that we have to be picky as tanks to what we aggro and try to control the most dangerous mob. But because they got lazy and just turned every dungeon encounter into a zerg fest with mobs with a lot of HP, that can't be ignored by classes with low HP themselves there is a huge issue.
Suggestion solution 1; fix the threat, give GF and GWF more optiosn to deal with aggro and promote tanking wtih GWF more (add tanking)
Suggestion solution 2; Just for the love of god do better boss encounters, zerging us with adds over and over just make you want to smash your head in the wall. Esp since the phases are not strategic, its just DPS races and every **** boss is the same but in a different Model. Fighting the two early dragons is the exactly same fight, fightning the pirates are the exactly same fight.
But the last part has been discussed so many times already I won't continue talking about it.
Never said you that said it was an easy fix, but anyways those are some great suggestions.
even if "idiots" were a little rude I agree with everything you said. Open Beta works as a scape goat for companies nowadays and somehow no matter how many companies have done this lately ppl still buy it up.
Neverwinter is a great game but its not a open beta, its released now, the cash shop is in place, all system are at go. Just like league of legends even if Riot doesnt want to admit it even now after 4 years.
And yes character wipes would be good at this point.
Rachel: Did you ever play GW2 possibly? because that game was "fully released" but still broken. The difference between full release and open beta is very small nowadays and open beta works as a cash grab and as instachi said; a way to not get blame by the playerbase.
If you guys can't see that then I dunno :S
And MS: Stop with the personal attacks. Character wipes are an industry convention, not a function of Beta itself. You don't get character wiped when beta testing Windows 8, after all. It went through Alpha and Beta states just like Neverwinter. Stop trying to redefine the word to your own benefit.
Seriously, it's like Fox News or MSNBC in here. Spin spin spin!
-Rachel-
Again, as someone who woks with software programmers and designers: Beta has a definition which is fairly clear. Yes there is room for grey edges (like a production studio pushing something into launch while it's still in a late-beta bug state) but this game is officially in beta and is in a beta state from a technical standpoint.
-Rachel-
And again as I said before; the game is in beta and will prob continue to stay in beta indefinately because that is the new thing now for F2P based online games. All mobas are doing it, all FPSes are doing it and all MMORPGs are doing it.
You get away with a lot more if you jsut keep the game in beta and blame it on something like "not enough hardware" etc etc. Just to clarify; I think this is a great game (cash shop destroys it end game though ) but the core of the game, the actual game is awesome. However "full releases" is not something that a lot of game companies do anymore unless they release for multi platform or in disc sales.
Diablo 3 even a year after its release is very much still in Beta and they are slowly (snail pace) adding stuf that should have been there for release.
That's unf how much power the suits and higher-ups have now in the game industry, the time when actual developers and game designers had power and creative free will is over, now its such as huge market that the business men/women are controlling the whole operation. If this was a sub based game most ppl would prob not complain, the prob is that cryptic once got bought out by PWE (before PWE it was awesome) and here we are again.
The good thing is that the devs (cryptic) shows a lot of love for their game here and its clear that they are really believing in it and want it to be a great experience, the prob is that PWE is involved and if there is one thing they are good at then it's ridiculous cash prices (they would earn waaaaaay more if prices were lower, more ppl would want to buy stuf and they would get all targets not only the ones that is willing to spend 50 dollars a month but the ones that would easily spend 5-10 dollars a month if prices were good. This is one of the reason that League of Legends is one of the most profitable F2P games of all times, their prices for what you get is superb, no pay to win only fun stuf.)
I believe fully in everything you say Rachel but the argument stands; when it comes to game developers (game developers not flash game creators, not software engineers, not designers, not mobile games but PC MMO client-based games) as of lately, they have all used the open-beta term to have that as a scapegoat. A lot of mmo based games as of the last couple of years have still not today never got out of the open beta phase because its just more profitable to not do a full release when real reviews can be made.
It's a trend and its here to stay
And Software Engineers, Programmers, and System Designers are all Game Developers. I think you mean Production Companies.
You may even have a leg to stand on, at some point. However -this game- is still in a Beta State. Not in a tow the line fangirl kissing up manner. In a "Jesus H Cripes this game still isn't in a launch state after a 3 year development cycle based on a previously constructed engine utilizing a team of people who knew that engine inside and out from all of the other games the developers worked on using this same engine?"
As noted before you could even argue that this is a PREMATURE Beta, with some alpha mechanic issues (Like server stability since that's a major function of the product and it's currently crashing the whole farm). But you can't say it is Launch Material without spinning things pretty hard.
Is it unethical to charge for services for a beta state game? You could make a reasonable argument for that. But it doesn't change the code state of this game.
-Rachel-
Please stop referencing WoW.. That game was released with an entirely different engine, and it it's open beta didn't even run most of the time because the servers were broken.
Diablo 3 isnt in Beta, its a full release, it just feels like beta because its such a pile of ****. They havent added any new areas, or new classes. Nothing big enough has been added to the game to consist of it end a beta like phase, so its no longer in beta. Minor content patches are not adding to the game, they are desperate attempts to add end game content. Miserable failures in the case of D3, but still not enough to proclude them from being called full release.
Its a shame too....13 years to drop a duece that big on our faces....makes me sick.
Spazzen is suggesting there is such a thing as a "Pseudo Beta" where a production company or game studio calls a game in the launch state a "Beta" even though it isn't. I think that is certainly possible that such a game could exist.
I'm stating that this game IS in a Beta State AND they're calling it a Beta.
-Rachel-
I think it will last. It has a great base platform and the foundry concept is genious. (have done very little Cryptic content since I level through the foundry, awesome storylines there). What's not so good though is the slaughter of the D&D ruleset and character progression. I did ofc know this when I went into the game, just saying that personally I will do foundry missions until I get bored of them, other then the foundry however there isn't much fun to have for me here.
@Rachel "pseudo beta" is a good way of describing it. For me however they can't call it a beta because no they are earning money on it. I might be wrong with that assumption but I believe that as soon as you implement a cash shop then the game earn real revenue and is a released game.
Ofc they need to get money back thats not what I'm stating the problem is how they are handling things like paying for respec (stupidest thing ever) when ppl 1) don't know how to build yet 2) abilities are bugged to the point that PWE is actively punishing players for "not-knowing-which-abilities" doesn't work as they should yet.
But from a coding standpoint and the definition of a Beta Phase have nothing to do with money. So it remains a Beta Phase.
-Rachel-