I take it you haven't been around for too long, because the most popular MMO in history uses (used? probably changed it due to whiners) this style of loot roll. I have a Guardian Fighter and so far haven't had anything that dropped for my class. I simply Pass, no need to even roll Greed, in my eyes, but it still wouldn't consume me if something did drop and got off-class rolled for. I'd simply just remember who I was dealing with for future reference and move on. Basically, it's just a game to me. I have real life problems that far outweigh an imaginary piece of loot.
Yeah, I have since the early days of EQ. Was rather apparent I was being facetious with my remark least I would think to most. It doesn't consume me but mmos that made the change to different loot systems made the right move. It's a message board forum so I'm commenting on the issue at hand. That tends to be what people use these for.
The problem with NBG is that it trusts us to be rational, courteous adults. For a reality check against that trust, see one of the early responses back on page 1.
NBG is old fashioned and vulnerable to (sub)human nature. As others have pointed out, this is a problem that has already been solved perfectly well in other games. I confess I don't understand why any new game would use the antiquated and flawed NBG system, when it is known to be flawed by anyone who has ever played an MMO.
Gear is obviously an important aspect of this game. That being the case, it's a terrible thing to put us in a position where one person can waste our time and effort with a single mouse click.
It wouldn't be that overcomplex actually. White loot is not shared, neither are certain boss drops (Storming the Keep, at least if I recall right).
Ugh, let's not talk about Storming the Keep - it also has those chests out in the open that only give loot (blue loot at that) to the first person to open...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Yeah, I have since the early days of EQ. Was rather apparent I was being facetious with my remark least I would think to most. It doesn't consume me but mmos that made the change to different loot systems made the right move. It's a message board forum so I'm commenting on the issue at hand. That tends to be what people use these for.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know and I apologize for making it sound as thus. Just seen your post and took it as an opportunity to remind not only you, but others here as well, that Neverwinter is a game, and thus intended for fun. One shouldn't take it so seriously. We have people bombing stadiums and s***. Our energy really should be directed elsewhere. Again, just the ramblings of an old school gamer who is getting much too old. Sorry, carry on.
Ugh, let's not talk about Storming the Keep - it also has those chests out in the open that only give loot (blue loot at that) to the first person to open...
Not true. They do however have a LONG cooldown between people opening it. Not sure how long, but less than the time it takes to beat down that meat tank..
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know and I apologize for making it sound as thus. Just seen your post and took it as an opportunity to remind not only you, but others here as well, that Neverwinter is a game, and thus intended for fun. One shouldn't take it so seriously. We have people bombing stadiums and s***. Our energy really should be directed elsewhere. Again, just the ramblings of an old school gamer who is getting much too old. Sorry, carry on.
I'm sorry but that's completely irrelevant; I would even say off-topic to the point of being disruptive to the actual conversation. The fact that somewhere in the world is a guy who spends his days in a hole ripping diamonds from the Earth with his bare hands has nothing to do with this game or its mechanics. We are here in this forum to discuss the game, and discussion should remain limited to that context. If you'd like to discuss topics not related to the game, there is a forum for that.
In pretty much any MMO I just /ignore anyone who "needs" something that isn't for their class
Bori - Renegade Drow - 40 Trickster Rogue - Mindflayer Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
Not true. They do however have a LONG cooldown between people opening it. Not sure how long, but less than the time it takes to beat down that meat tank..
Hmm, guess I'll have to check that out next run.
Meanwhile, funny thing happened today - we knocked the end boss off the bridge. No boss loot that run...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
BoP won't stop people from rolling on it. That still involves people being sensible adults.
I agree there would still be some issue with irrational individuals rolling need on things. You should only be able to roll "need" on items which your class can equip. Still, a BoP top tier would solve the core end game issues currently present in Neverwinter. Personally, I think both things need to happen to salvage the end game.
I'm sorry but that's completely irrelevant; I would even say off-topic to the point of being disruptive to the actual conversation. The fact that somewhere in the world is a guy who spends his days in a hole ripping diamonds from the Earth with his bare hands has nothing to do with this game or its mechanics. We are here in this forum to discuss the game, and discussion should remain limited to that context. If you'd like to discuss topics not related to the game, there is a forum for that.
I guess this is where we agree to disagree, because I believe it is completely relevant. Instead of trying to change the drop system, why not change your looting habits? When something drops, don't automatically think 'That is mine!' Simply think, 'Oh, I have a chance at that!' If you don't get it, you probably should have and should maybe even go to the point of tactfully addressing your concern to whoever rolled for it. Maybe they will be more careful in the future. But simply putting a system in doesn't teach proper dungeon etiquette, it simply restrains anything but, which doesn't help the community as a whole. The same reason we don't tie our children's hands together. If they touch something they aren't supposed to, we give them that choice, but correct them afterwords (or even let circumstances kick in, if need be). Again, just wanted you to see where I was actually coming from and not sure anyone can even relate to what I'm saying, but peace and happy gaming.
I guess this is where we agree to disagree, because I believe it is completely relevant. Instead of trying to change the drop system, why not change your looting habits?
No. My "looting habits" are not the problem. If it can't be used by my class then by definition I do not need it. And if it is specifically for my class then obviously that piece of gear represents one of the rewards for my participation; it is designed specifically for me, and is therefore one of the primary reasons why we do these things in the first place.
But simply putting a system in doesn't teach proper dungeon etiquette
No, but it enforces it. It eliminates this entire problem.
This problem has already been solved in other games. You seem to be arguing that we should ignore the solution in favor of holding on to the problem. But why would anyone would refuse a solution to a known and long-standing problem? Why would anyone willfully choose the problem instead? One boggles. If I offered you a handful of money or a sharp stick to the eye, which would you choose?
I feel like the current way looting works is facilitating arguments and bad blood in pick up groups.
A lot of us use the queue finder(k) to finish dungeons, skirmishes, etc. But when an item comes up that is class specific you almost always get someone who rolls "NEED" no matter what. This can be corrected by playing with friends and guildmates, sure. But I think the queue finder is something that should be promoted to foster a new game.
A simple fix to this would be to not allow people to roll "NEED" on items their class cannot use. If no one needs it, then everyone should just roll "GREED". Being that this is a pickup group in a free game, a lot of people are greedy and immature. It's up to the developers to protect the people who are honest, or else people will stop using queue finder all together.
I agree with you OP 100% The current loot system is a joke. If enough people complain about it, leave the game over it or whatever, it will get changed.
It would be nice but not sure how involved it would be to implement that concept at this point.
As it was said before...chests already spit something out for everyone in the party. Apply that principal to boss loot. Unless you've got someone just sitting around and doing nothing but waiting for the N/G/P prompt, everyone has something to do with taking the boss down...why can't everyone get something for it?
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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bloodsuckingparasiteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Currently, PWE and Cryptic use the honor system when it comes to rolling need or greed on loot. This is a bad decision because there's always that one guy. THAT ONE GUY who doesn't care, he has no courtesy, he has no honor, he's just another loot *****. Just had someone who waited for everyone to roll greed on a piece of gear that belonged to no class present, then rolled need.
Easiest way is probably just to prevent other classes from rolling on the gear of another class.
A guardian cannot roll on a trickster's gear for example.
Perhaps let that be standard loot rule unless changed by party leader, like we can now.
I still don't understand the issue. If you need the item, roll need. If someone else rolls need and gets it, so what? You didn't get the item. Move on and try again another time.
Rolling need doesn't entitle you to any item, whether or not it's for your class.
As it was said before...chests already spit something out for everyone in the party. Apply that principal to boss loot. Unless you've got someone just sitting around and doing nothing but waiting for the N/G/P prompt, everyone has something to do with taking the boss down...why can't everyone get something for it?
Speaking of which, a quick fix would simply be to have the end chest always spit something out (with bonus in delve), and remove loot from bosses. Granted it's only a rough fix and wouldn't solve people needing all the greens, but at the very least everyone is confirmed some loot (so long as the dungeon is complete of course, which is a separate other problem).
As it was said before...chests already spit something out for everyone in the party. Apply that principal to boss loot. Unless you've got someone just sitting around and doing nothing but waiting for the N/G/P prompt, everyone has something to do with taking the boss down...why can't everyone get something for it?
Like I said earlier I would love if they implemented it. I just don't believe they will bother. Would love to be proven wrong though. As a poster above me said having the loot linked to chests rather than bosses would be a good idea too.
The looting system itself is horrible. The UI gets cluttered quickly, and Shift+1 Shift+2 Shift+3 to roll is annoying, instead just have them as single keys off on the other side of the keyboard for all players, as I have accidentally need rolled too many times to count now.
Also class restrictions on loot would be great please.
The looting system itself is horrible. The UI gets cluttered quickly, and Shift+1 Shift+2 Shift+3 to roll is annoying, instead just have them as single keys off on the other side of the keyboard for all players, as I have accidentally need rolled too many times to count now.
Also class restrictions on loot would be great please.
It would probably go over like a ton of bricks but I would love for stuff to not be lootable while you're still in combat. I'm so sick and tired of my screen being filled up with loot rolls for items while we're still in the middle of a fight. Fun times for trying to target a specific mob or place an AoE when people do that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The looting system itself is horrible. The UI gets cluttered quickly, and Shift+1 Shift+2 Shift+3 to roll is annoying, instead just have them as single keys off on the other side of the keyboard for all players, as I have accidentally need rolled too many times to count now.
Also class restrictions on loot would be great please.
If there is class restrictions on loot, no-one but clerics can gear up their cleric companions
I did this the other night in a group, teh TR who should have gotten the item was so mad that he kicked me from group .... as I was trying to trade :cool: ~~ so I sold it. Just remember folks, some people like me have gross sausage~esk mega-fat fingers and thus might accidently need something here and there.
If there is class restrictions on loot, no-one but clerics can gear up their cleric companions
I have no problems gearing up my cleric companion without rolling need on cleric items. Besides, there would be plenty rolling need of course even if the item wasn't an upgrade for them so they could sell it on the AH like they always do so if you really felt that level 15 cleric (least until 2016 when the training tomes are released) needed purples it would be obtainable.
Thing is when you hit need it should go to those that need it. From playing DDO that is what I had thought it would do until my 1st group here. In the other D&D MMO in the social panel LFM's if the leader puts need before greed generally speaking only those that can use the item roll for it. Of course people still abuse taking loot, that is why in that game so many raids and good loot quests are no longer done in a pug "Pick up group"
DDO stopped that in 2007. For the last 6 years now everyone gets their own chest pull. The rolling system is not controlled by the game, and people can pass their loot pull to whoever they want.
Comments
This is 2013, other MMO's have figured this out. Why make it like this anymore?
So people can get pissed or fight over it? How is that fun?
In GW2 all nodes are shared which is very nice!
Yeah, I have since the early days of EQ. Was rather apparent I was being facetious with my remark least I would think to most. It doesn't consume me but mmos that made the change to different loot systems made the right move. It's a message board forum so I'm commenting on the issue at hand. That tends to be what people use these for.
NBG is old fashioned and vulnerable to (sub)human nature. As others have pointed out, this is a problem that has already been solved perfectly well in other games. I confess I don't understand why any new game would use the antiquated and flawed NBG system, when it is known to be flawed by anyone who has ever played an MMO.
Gear is obviously an important aspect of this game. That being the case, it's a terrible thing to put us in a position where one person can waste our time and effort with a single mouse click.
Ugh, let's not talk about Storming the Keep - it also has those chests out in the open that only give loot (blue loot at that) to the first person to open...
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't know and I apologize for making it sound as thus. Just seen your post and took it as an opportunity to remind not only you, but others here as well, that Neverwinter is a game, and thus intended for fun. One shouldn't take it so seriously. We have people bombing stadiums and s***. Our energy really should be directed elsewhere. Again, just the ramblings of an old school gamer who is getting much too old. Sorry, carry on.
Not true. They do however have a LONG cooldown between people opening it. Not sure how long, but less than the time it takes to beat down that meat tank..
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I'm sorry but that's completely irrelevant; I would even say off-topic to the point of being disruptive to the actual conversation. The fact that somewhere in the world is a guy who spends his days in a hole ripping diamonds from the Earth with his bare hands has nothing to do with this game or its mechanics. We are here in this forum to discuss the game, and discussion should remain limited to that context. If you'd like to discuss topics not related to the game, there is a forum for that.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Elocin - Renegade Drow - 39 Devoted Cleric of Selune - Mindflayer
Looking for some Dust of Forum Troll Disappearance ? Sprinkle this on any troll to phase shift them out of your plane of existence.
Hmm, guess I'll have to check that out next run.
Meanwhile, funny thing happened today - we knocked the end boss off the bridge. No boss loot that run...
I agree there would still be some issue with irrational individuals rolling need on things. You should only be able to roll "need" on items which your class can equip. Still, a BoP top tier would solve the core end game issues currently present in Neverwinter. Personally, I think both things need to happen to salvage the end game.
I guess this is where we agree to disagree, because I believe it is completely relevant. Instead of trying to change the drop system, why not change your looting habits? When something drops, don't automatically think 'That is mine!' Simply think, 'Oh, I have a chance at that!' If you don't get it, you probably should have and should maybe even go to the point of tactfully addressing your concern to whoever rolled for it. Maybe they will be more careful in the future. But simply putting a system in doesn't teach proper dungeon etiquette, it simply restrains anything but, which doesn't help the community as a whole. The same reason we don't tie our children's hands together. If they touch something they aren't supposed to, we give them that choice, but correct them afterwords (or even let circumstances kick in, if need be). Again, just wanted you to see where I was actually coming from and not sure anyone can even relate to what I'm saying, but peace and happy gaming.
No. My "looting habits" are not the problem. If it can't be used by my class then by definition I do not need it. And if it is specifically for my class then obviously that piece of gear represents one of the rewards for my participation; it is designed specifically for me, and is therefore one of the primary reasons why we do these things in the first place.
No, but it enforces it. It eliminates this entire problem.
This problem has already been solved in other games. You seem to be arguing that we should ignore the solution in favor of holding on to the problem. But why would anyone would refuse a solution to a known and long-standing problem? Why would anyone willfully choose the problem instead? One boggles. If I offered you a handful of money or a sharp stick to the eye, which would you choose?
I agree with you OP 100% The current loot system is a joke. If enough people complain about it, leave the game over it or whatever, it will get changed.
As it was said before...chests already spit something out for everyone in the party. Apply that principal to boss loot. Unless you've got someone just sitting around and doing nothing but waiting for the N/G/P prompt, everyone has something to do with taking the boss down...why can't everyone get something for it?
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Easiest way is probably just to prevent other classes from rolling on the gear of another class.
A guardian cannot roll on a trickster's gear for example.
Perhaps let that be standard loot rule unless changed by party leader, like we can now.
One would think.
Because theres three bosses, thus three drops and five players in the team.
Means two will always be left out of it.
Rolling need doesn't entitle you to any item, whether or not it's for your class.
Speaking of which, a quick fix would simply be to have the end chest always spit something out (with bonus in delve), and remove loot from bosses. Granted it's only a rough fix and wouldn't solve people needing all the greens, but at the very least everyone is confirmed some loot (so long as the dungeon is complete of course, which is a separate other problem).
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Like I said earlier I would love if they implemented it. I just don't believe they will bother. Would love to be proven wrong though. As a poster above me said having the loot linked to chests rather than bosses would be a good idea too.
Also class restrictions on loot would be great please.
It would probably go over like a ton of bricks but I would love for stuff to not be lootable while you're still in combat. I'm so sick and tired of my screen being filled up with loot rolls for items while we're still in the middle of a fight. Fun times for trying to target a specific mob or place an AoE when people do that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
If there is class restrictions on loot, no-one but clerics can gear up their cleric companions
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I did this the other night in a group, teh TR who should have gotten the item was so mad that he kicked me from group .... as I was trying to trade :cool: ~~ so I sold it. Just remember folks, some people like me have gross sausage~esk mega-fat fingers and thus might accidently need something here and there.
I have no problems gearing up my cleric companion without rolling need on cleric items. Besides, there would be plenty rolling need of course even if the item wasn't an upgrade for them so they could sell it on the AH like they always do so if you really felt that level 15 cleric (least until 2016 when the training tomes are released) needed purples it would be obtainable.
This is Neverwinter, so I fixed that for you.
DDO stopped that in 2007. For the last 6 years now everyone gets their own chest pull. The rolling system is not controlled by the game, and people can pass their loot pull to whoever they want.