Eh, that goes a bit beyond the scope of what I wanted to do with this thread. This was something I did because I have a lot of experience with D&D 4E which lets me understand some of the concepts in the Foundry that might not be obvious to someone approaching it fresh. If anyone decides to write such a list of attacks, I'd be happy to incorporate it into the post. I'm probably not going to test these monsters at various levels to figure it out myself though. I'd rather play the game or work on my next quest.
Is anybody a D&D loremaster who can describe the monsters and explain the different attacks the solo mobs + maybe their included entourage has? I'd love to do it but my description would be like:
"Thoon Hulks have some pretty crazy special attacks like this cone thing where he shoots squigglies from his head and it locks you out of your powers"
You are writing this from the solo perspective. Not all of us want our dungeons to be solo-able. I certainly don't. IN a group setting one hard and one easy mob is a cake walk. Sadly, mob stacking is the only way to convey the sense of danger and difficulty some of us want in a map.
Until they give us access to adjust degrees of difficulty on enemies, and actual bosses, mob stacking is the only way to make multi-person dungeons.
only the "suggestion/ tip" not to stack mobs is geared toward solo, the rest of the post is pretty much explaining how mobs are being categorized and used to compose encounters, which for us not familiar with how D&D combat is organized, its helpful. that information can be applied to group content :]
Can someone explain them, they are suposed to give a kind of action to an actor, but i dont understand very well how they work, are they suposed to work for just one foe or one encounter?
PATROLS
Mostly how is this done? do they work for one foe or the complete group?
Can someone explain them, they are suposed to give a kind of action to an actor, but i dont understand very well how they work, are they suposed to work for just one foe or one encounter?
They are supposed to work for relevant enemies (ie only a ranged enemy will take up position at a ranged node for example), but I've had some issues with them. Maybe someone else has experimented with this enough to know the details of how it works and doesn't work?
PATROLS
Mostly how is this done? do they work for one foe or the complete group?
Patrols are straightforward. The entire encounter will move along the path you create (as long as they can find a way from one node to another. If they can't, they'll stop). If it's a one-way patrol it'll stop at the final node. Currently you can't change the patrol's speed, as it will ignore any value you type into those boxes. Be aware that due to the way pathing is done in this game, patrols can and will change behavior when you publish. For this reason you should carefully test each patrol after publishing to make sure it still works. For example, I had to rework an important part of The Lanaar Legacy when it turned out publishing made it impossible for patrols to navigate up a set of stairs that they could easily handle in Foundry Preview. It's better if you notice this than if your players do.
I'd like to see a summary of the solo encounter's skills, that way when we design a boss we can simply take a peak here and see what abilities each solo encounter uses.
Other than that, thanks for the info!! I was considering making a thread similar to this.
Thanks for the information I will take some notes from it for sure.
About the whole mob stacking thing, I think you will never please everyone so just make what you like, I've had people say my quest is too hard and others that loved the challenge, I personally really enjoy a challenge in my content so made something that was soloable if you're careful but is still a challenge if you take a friend and try and steam roll it. Horses for courses etc I guess
As long as you're honest in the description about it's difficulty it should be fine imo.
Foundry quest NW-DKCR8S6GH
Trouble at "The Rock" please play and review if you have the time, thanks
Yeah this is tricky thing about encounters.. But I think it depends a lot on players... This is action combat game.. many people have to realize that... It is not like old MMO
Here you can jump around, hide, run behind object to gain time on cooldowns... You can even make some encounter fall in to hole.. Like I have combat with two Ogres.. Ogres are usually easy because you can "hit and run" them.. they are slow.. it is just about timing... but anyway in my story I few times managed to make one ogre to fall in to hole in the floor in cave.. I was just running around, he is slow and large so it was matter of time and he felt down.. and then I just killed the other one... But you have to think.. not just go there and hope you survive... players have to get used to new ways of combat.. this is not WoW where you just stand against some mob and wait until one of you dies... This is action combat.. players should learn to move their a**es..
I dont get it when I am playing some party quest and there are like large "Ogre based" bosses and they just stand in front of them and slash them.. even though they see that Ogre is about to hit (which takes them long time so you can escape) but those players are just still standing in front of him instead of escape when he is about to do "great hit"...
Yeah, uh... Let's have this discussion when you're getting higher level and have fought some of the truly tough monsters or combinations thereof, huh?
Sorry about the snark, but ogres aren't a good example of difficulty or clever play in this game. It's when you start to come up against mixed encounters containing Magma Beasts or Thoon Hulks at high levels that you start to realize that things can be very, very tough even with just one single encounter.
You totally missed me... I was not talking about Magmas or Hulks... I dont use those encounters much for stories that are focused on casual players... Like I used Magma just once and there I was more careful.. But I am talking about usual content that is still hard for some players not because of their level but because they didnt approach the combat yet.. and Ogre is great example of action combat for such a casual players because there every fool can see how it works... It has no point to show on the hardest encounters when talking to public... They have to first realize it and learn it on those like Ogres...
Or are you about to give players to learn on Magmas and really hard core encounters? That would not be really wise...
I said that Ogres are easy because you can "hit and run" them but they are good learning material for people to learn that this combat system is not about standing in front of mob... so they are perfect difficulty and perfect show of clever combat for CASUAL players... When you will cross Magmas and Thoon Hulks you will already know how to approach fight in this game so those examples are not relevant for casual players who need to learn how to play combat in this game first... which are the one I was talking about in my post... but you probably missed that important point that I was not talking about skilled players but about casual players.. Because when I say that someone needs to "learn" how to approach combat I am clearly not talking abotu someone who has high level and is fighting Magmas... but I am talking about casual players who will many times even leave this game before reaching high level...
So lets have this discussion when you realize what I am talking about...
Yeah, uh... Let's have this discussion when you're getting higher level and have fought some of the truly tough monsters or combinations thereof, huh?
Sorry about the snark, but ogres aren't a good example of difficulty or clever play in this game. It's when you start to come up against mixed encounters containing Magma Beasts or Thoon Hulks at high levels that you start to realize that things can be very, very tough even with just one single encounter.
My point was that I am using not so hard content but in a way that it forces player to use possibilities of action combat. Majority of players are casual players and you cant just throw on them Magmas just like that. You can try that if your focus is on more skilled players.. but I was clearly not talking about more skilled players... So your comment is absolute nonsense...
Ogres are perfect learning material and perfect example for casual players...
Even though I do not use them so much I rather use mixes so it is more kind of colorful... But that is not the point.. I was just giving example and you turned it in some comment that makes no sense to my point...
Yeah, uh... Let's have this discussion when you're getting higher level and have fought some of the truly tough monsters or combinations thereof, huh?
Sorry about the snark, but ogres aren't a good example of difficulty or clever play in this game. It's when you start to come up against mixed encounters containing Magma Beasts or Thoon Hulks at high levels that you start to realize that things can be very, very tough even with just one single encounter.
And other important point you totally missed is that I was talking about usage of environment... As I was giving example of draging mob to hole.. and not by skill.. but by moving around the hole.. and as they try to follow you they can fall inside sometimes... Specially when they are large and you run on very narrow path they can easy fall down as it happened to me many times.. and other things you can use in environment.. when you do not place encounter just in to room on flat ground but you place him in to some tricky environment... And that was my main focus... Not to give palyer the hardest encounter but to give him some relatively strong and some tricky environment and make him realize what they can do in that environment...
And anyway in examples of Magmas, Hulks, very hard mixed encounter pay even much more what I am saying.. because with them you have to move even much more around.. and do much more of hit and run and clever timing... So you are proving my point anyway... I am just using example of Ogre because everybody understands that.. casuals and hard core all understand Ogre.. if I would talk about Magmas and Hulks then many casuals will not know... Explaining is about speaking common language... As I try to speak English because you would not understand my language.. so I try to speak the way that everybody understands me not only hard core players...
How about this? How many new foundry creators stack the foundry "HARD"? If most players are casual and want easy encounters... why is this happening?
Likewise, do we have hard fact numbers on how many people WANT harder encounters, easier encounters, think 2 stack hard encounters are too easy at level 10, 50, and 60?
I doubt there are any numbers out there. I say let people do encounter as they want... but people need to understand how encounters work.
Heres is a quick rundown of the abilities each solo encounter uses for anyone that needs help creating a psuedo-boss.
Shocktroop Devil
-Straight Line Ground Nuke - Fire Based
-Fire Breath
-Sword + Shield
Plaguechanged Maw
-Point Blank Area of Effect Vomit Poison
-Ground Targetted AOE Nuke
Magma Brute
-Channels a nuke targetted on a player, after he finishes "casting" you can dodge it. Its a giant fiery boulder and leaves fire on the ground.
Foulspawn Hulk
-Channels an AOE where he pulls everyone towards him, then follows it up with a point blank AOE Nuke
Thoon Hulk
-Front Conal AOE Nuke
-Similiar to FoulspawN Hulk, pulls in everyone then Point Blank AOE Nukes
Is there any way to make encounters friendly? Like, "Hey, we're not going to attack you.. until the plot twist!" I've dug around in the forums to no avail.
I know I could do the NPC/Encounter switcheroo at trigger time, but that is terribly tedious and is limited to 50 individuals.
Really wish they would sticky this for the new authors and those who reference it.
Do you crave a good old fashioned dungeon crawl? One where the dungeon tells it's own story? The Dungeon Delves campaign is just for you! Start with my first release: NW-DQF4T7QYH Any cave can lead to adventure!
As far as setting up encounters so that no matter what level the player is or how much of a challenge he wants the best thing to do is create a difficulty slider. It takes more time to do, but allows everyone to be able to enjoy your quest.
To set up a difficulty slider. Have an NPC ask the player a question upon entering a new map. Give the player 3 responses to pick from, have the NPC reply differently to each one. Now create your easy/standard/hard encounters and have each difficulty only become visible when the corresponding difficulty choice was selected in the dialogue.
Sadly you can't carry over those choices between maps so you'll have to ask the player a difficulty slider question for each map they zone into.
Yeh I experienced one of those in Zovya's Assassin Chronicles; had never seen it used before but it really is a neat idea. I solo a lot at the moment and I like to have a challenge when I'm fighting; definitely used a lot of pots on the hardest setting
I do think people need to be more creative with their encounters and not just rely on difficulty settings though; I've not really fought an encounter that I've thought "Yep, that was pretty **** neat" yet other than overwhelming mobs that can (when done correctly) be fun.
Yea Zovya's quest was the first time I saw it too. Thought about doing so for my current UGC. Not sure how it would work out though since most of the areas you fight in are pretty small and already have patrols.
Edit: doh the rest was for another post.
Removing the Grey Mask NW-DJ56XFK6G My first installment in the Rise of Shadovar Campaign.
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drakedge2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeh I experienced one of those in Zovya's Assassin Chronicles; had never seen it used before but it really is a neat idea. I solo a lot at the moment and I like to have a challenge when I'm fighting; definitely used a lot of pots on the hardest setting
I do think people need to be more creative with their encounters and not just rely on difficulty settings though; I've not really fought an encounter that I've thought "Yep, that was pretty **** neat" yet other than overwhelming mobs that can (when done correctly) be fun.
Try the last boss fight in chapter 4 of planescape. I think I did a good job with it, considering the limited toolset.
Thanks for the nice, easy rundown of setting up encounters.
There's one thing that I just can't figure out though. How do I make one of my NPC's I created an encounter? I know I can make them disappear when the encounter appears but I'm talking about how do I use the customized model for the NPC as an enemy? It's driving me nuts and I can't finish making my quest until I know how to do this.
There is an option to change the costume of the mob/enemy near the bottom of the enemies properties in the detail view (not the layout view). Just choose your custom costume that you used for the npc.
Removing the Grey Mask NW-DJ56XFK6G My first installment in the Rise of Shadovar Campaign.
There is an option to change the costume of the mob/enemy near the bottom of the enemies properties in the detail view (not the layout view). Just choose your custom costume that you used for the npc.
Oh wow I feel like a complete idiot! I never thought to switch to detail view haha. Thank you so much!
Comments
Is anybody a D&D loremaster who can describe the monsters and explain the different attacks the solo mobs + maybe their included entourage has? I'd love to do it but my description would be like:
"Thoon Hulks have some pretty crazy special attacks like this cone thing where he shoots squigglies from his head and it locks you out of your powers"
Until they give us access to adjust degrees of difficulty on enemies, and actual bosses, mob stacking is the only way to make multi-person dungeons.
Properly space things out so that one encounter does not add into another one.
and well some question regarding encounters.
NODES..
Can someone explain them, they are suposed to give a kind of action to an actor, but i dont understand very well how they work, are they suposed to work for just one foe or one encounter?
PATROLS
Mostly how is this done? do they work for one foe or the complete group?
Thank you
They are supposed to work for relevant enemies (ie only a ranged enemy will take up position at a ranged node for example), but I've had some issues with them. Maybe someone else has experimented with this enough to know the details of how it works and doesn't work?
Patrols are straightforward. The entire encounter will move along the path you create (as long as they can find a way from one node to another. If they can't, they'll stop). If it's a one-way patrol it'll stop at the final node. Currently you can't change the patrol's speed, as it will ignore any value you type into those boxes. Be aware that due to the way pathing is done in this game, patrols can and will change behavior when you publish. For this reason you should carefully test each patrol after publishing to make sure it still works. For example, I had to rework an important part of The Lanaar Legacy when it turned out publishing made it impossible for patrols to navigate up a set of stairs that they could easily handle in Foundry Preview. It's better if you notice this than if your players do.
Other than that, thanks for the info!! I was considering making a thread similar to this.
About the whole mob stacking thing, I think you will never please everyone so just make what you like, I've had people say my quest is too hard and others that loved the challenge, I personally really enjoy a challenge in my content so made something that was soloable if you're careful but is still a challenge if you take a friend and try and steam roll it. Horses for courses etc I guess
As long as you're honest in the description about it's difficulty it should be fine imo.
Trouble at "The Rock" please play and review if you have the time, thanks
Rizogue
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I dont get it when I am playing some party quest and there are like large "Ogre based" bosses and they just stand in front of them and slash them.. even though they see that Ogre is about to hit (which takes them long time so you can escape) but those players are just still standing in front of him instead of escape when he is about to do "great hit"...
Sorry about the snark, but ogres aren't a good example of difficulty or clever play in this game. It's when you start to come up against mixed encounters containing Magma Beasts or Thoon Hulks at high levels that you start to realize that things can be very, very tough even with just one single encounter.
Or are you about to give players to learn on Magmas and really hard core encounters? That would not be really wise...
I said that Ogres are easy because you can "hit and run" them but they are good learning material for people to learn that this combat system is not about standing in front of mob... so they are perfect difficulty and perfect show of clever combat for CASUAL players... When you will cross Magmas and Thoon Hulks you will already know how to approach fight in this game so those examples are not relevant for casual players who need to learn how to play combat in this game first... which are the one I was talking about in my post... but you probably missed that important point that I was not talking about skilled players but about casual players.. Because when I say that someone needs to "learn" how to approach combat I am clearly not talking abotu someone who has high level and is fighting Magmas... but I am talking about casual players who will many times even leave this game before reaching high level...
So lets have this discussion when you realize what I am talking about...
My point was that I am using not so hard content but in a way that it forces player to use possibilities of action combat. Majority of players are casual players and you cant just throw on them Magmas just like that. You can try that if your focus is on more skilled players.. but I was clearly not talking about more skilled players... So your comment is absolute nonsense...
Ogres are perfect learning material and perfect example for casual players...
Even though I do not use them so much I rather use mixes so it is more kind of colorful... But that is not the point.. I was just giving example and you turned it in some comment that makes no sense to my point...
And other important point you totally missed is that I was talking about usage of environment... As I was giving example of draging mob to hole.. and not by skill.. but by moving around the hole.. and as they try to follow you they can fall inside sometimes... Specially when they are large and you run on very narrow path they can easy fall down as it happened to me many times.. and other things you can use in environment.. when you do not place encounter just in to room on flat ground but you place him in to some tricky environment... And that was my main focus... Not to give palyer the hardest encounter but to give him some relatively strong and some tricky environment and make him realize what they can do in that environment...
And anyway in examples of Magmas, Hulks, very hard mixed encounter pay even much more what I am saying.. because with them you have to move even much more around.. and do much more of hit and run and clever timing... So you are proving my point anyway... I am just using example of Ogre because everybody understands that.. casuals and hard core all understand Ogre.. if I would talk about Magmas and Hulks then many casuals will not know... Explaining is about speaking common language... As I try to speak English because you would not understand my language.. so I try to speak the way that everybody understands me not only hard core players...
please :]
Hmmmm how do you know this?
How about this? How many new foundry creators stack the foundry "HARD"? If most players are casual and want easy encounters... why is this happening?
Likewise, do we have hard fact numbers on how many people WANT harder encounters, easier encounters, think 2 stack hard encounters are too easy at level 10, 50, and 60?
I doubt there are any numbers out there. I say let people do encounter as they want... but people need to understand how encounters work.
Shocktroop Devil
-Straight Line Ground Nuke - Fire Based
-Fire Breath
-Sword + Shield
Plaguechanged Maw
-Point Blank Area of Effect Vomit Poison
-Ground Targetted AOE Nuke
Magma Brute
-Channels a nuke targetted on a player, after he finishes "casting" you can dodge it. Its a giant fiery boulder and leaves fire on the ground.
Foulspawn Hulk
-Channels an AOE where he pulls everyone towards him, then follows it up with a point blank AOE Nuke
Thoon Hulk
-Front Conal AOE Nuke
-Similiar to FoulspawN Hulk, pulls in everyone then Point Blank AOE Nukes
Foulspawn Berserker
-Charge Attack
-When dropped below 50% HP, Increases in size and gains massively increased attack speed.
-Uses Two-handed Sword
Ogre
-Overhead ground smash, stuns
-Sweep attack, knocks back
-Uses Two-handed mace
Is there any way to make encounters friendly? Like, "Hey, we're not going to attack you.. until the plot twist!" I've dug around in the forums to no avail.
I know I could do the NPC/Encounter switcheroo at trigger time, but that is terribly tedious and is limited to 50 individuals.
To set up a difficulty slider. Have an NPC ask the player a question upon entering a new map. Give the player 3 responses to pick from, have the NPC reply differently to each one. Now create your easy/standard/hard encounters and have each difficulty only become visible when the corresponding difficulty choice was selected in the dialogue.
Sadly you can't carry over those choices between maps so you'll have to ask the player a difficulty slider question for each map they zone into.
Fun 15-20 Minute Heavy Combat Quest with a difficulty slider. Hand crafted environments and encounters.
Code: NW-DSVCX8LD4
Thread URL: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?257391-Protect-the-Caravan
I do think people need to be more creative with their encounters and not just rely on difficulty settings though; I've not really fought an encounter that I've thought "Yep, that was pretty **** neat" yet other than overwhelming mobs that can (when done correctly) be fun.
Edit: doh the rest was for another post.
NW-DJ56XFK6G
My first installment in the Rise of Shadovar Campaign.
Try the last boss fight in chapter 4 of planescape. I think I did a good job with it, considering the limited toolset.
There's one thing that I just can't figure out though. How do I make one of my NPC's I created an encounter? I know I can make them disappear when the encounter appears but I'm talking about how do I use the customized model for the NPC as an enemy? It's driving me nuts and I can't finish making my quest until I know how to do this.
NW-DJ56XFK6G
My first installment in the Rise of Shadovar Campaign.
Oh wow I feel like a complete idiot! I never thought to switch to detail view haha. Thank you so much!