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Joined a random Epic Dragon Lair dungeon. No cleric.
devilsdozen
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I joined a queue for the lair of the mad dragon epic, and we got no cleric in the pre-assembled group. Which is a very, very stupid thing to do, especially for that dungeon. So, one of the people left. Who did we get? A second rogue. At this point, GWF left too. Who did we get as replacement? THIRD ROGUE. So right now, we're 3 rogues and 2 CW, as queued up by the LFG system, for the epic lair of mad dragon.
... Really?
And the funny thing is, last time i queued up for LOMD (normal), EXACTLY same thing happened. We ended up having to disband before last boss, because we had no tank, and no healer.
... Really?
And the funny thing is, last time i queued up for LOMD (normal), EXACTLY same thing happened. We ended up having to disband before last boss, because we had no tank, and no healer.
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Do I attack? Nope, but I got aggro.
Do I heal? No way, I get ALL the aggro then.
Do I stand still? Sure, but I still get aggro.
I would Love to go back to my level 41 cleric, finish him off and start doing epic dungeons, but until they fix aggro for clerics to a more manageable level, I will stick with my rogue alt. Trust me, its killing me to have and unfinished cleric, as I always main and overgear my clerics, since its always nice to bring them in, but in this game, its useless to try without chugging pots all the time.
'This dungeons getting tough...gimme a sec, I got an epic max level cleric main, let me get him and we'll push this the rest of the way. Easy peasy.' I used to love saying stuff like that.
I back this up, but at the end of the day. Healers need to know how to kite in Epic dungeons. I think it would be a lot easier as a tank to control of aggro as a tank.
Besides, if there is no cleric available to get matched in LFG queue, id much rather not get matched at all, than get a third rogue, and have no chance of completing the dungeon anyway.
Sure, I like a nice challenge, but... yeah...
IMO, the problem with MMOs today is fight design demands those classes. Fights, even boss fights, need to be designed that ANY collection of classes has a reasonable chance of winning the fight.
I have said this before and I will say this again.
I wish...gods I WISH Kiting worked in this game like people think. If I run around in a dungeon with 20 mobs chasing me, the mobs still hit me, even if they are melee. The game has given them higher move speeds to the point that they can actually keep up with you, even on a mount. So much so that they hit you while you kite, everytime. Kiting doesnt work since mobs still hit you no matter what you do, and you have to either deal with it, or die. Its usually the latter, because a good healer doesnt have a lot of dmg skills to defend themselves.
And its impossible to shake aggro as a cleric....here we see the issue as the game presents it. Aggro mechanics need to be fixed.
In neverwinter however, i despise it, cleric feels like one of the least fun classes to play because of how limited their abilities feel and how annoying it is to target a specific person.
This thread is now about clerics, sir. lol
Even threads aggro Clerics and ignore everything else.
<Rarely Sober> - Beholder
This. I do not want to advertise other mmo's, like GW2,but hey, they did it fairly well. Every class has viable survival skills in that game, even heals!
In 2013 playing by the holy trinity of dungeon runs are just...obsolete.
Even if this is an "open beta" which is just clever marketing, this game needs some serious, really serious fixes. And soon.
Auretius casts Threatening Rush followed by Enforced Threat on Thread.
PS - As a 60 GW, let me tell you that the above combo should be every tank's bread and butter. That being said, I agree that aggro is a pain in this game. Most of it surrounds around the fact that new adds spawn repeatedly on most boss encounters and those adds immediately aggro to heals. If they change that mechanic so that tanks could more easily pick up all new adds then you almost completely nullify the 'challenge' of most encounters. Point being, if they change threat drastically they may need to retune difficulties on encounters otherwise people will get bored quickly.
3 GWF and 2 TR
Yea...
If you're making a game which uses the trinity then you should make sure the LFD tool also makes groups with that trinity in mind
This is wrong. Most tanks just haven't "figured it out" yet.
As for the dungeon finder yea, I agree. I had a group with 2 Rogues and 2 CW's and me (GF) and no cleric for Epic CT. It was easily doable cause the dungeon is super easy farm mode but most other dungeons I would have just left right at the start. Lotta no clerics showing up.
Simply NO! GF are fine. If you cant keep agro from dps you are a bad tank. For clerics, its another story, they are the ones that need a fix, not the tanks.
There is a clear issue around cleric viability tho, if no clerics are playing then you'll never get matched as a cleric and there will be threads going "where are all the healers!?". Cleric has a very very visible bug that seems like it will end out being related to the sooth ability which causes them to basically aggro everything around without really doing all that much... and trust me as a Cleric... every add goes for you even if you didn't do anything... it's clearly a bug and as long as it lasts it'll mean less people wanting to play cleric late on in the game. That and righteousness, as it goes the only way to take care of this cleric issue to have two clerics (they heal each other and mobs get confused which to go for)... which are probably the rarest class around.
But back to your original point, The system right now in my opinion is not optimal. Even if the system only selected 1 person from each class, there will soon be more classes and so you may end out without a tank or healer anyway. There should be another button for flagging for party so that somebody can put together a party out of available players, this would also reduce the amount of spam in some zone chats like "CW42 LFG Idris", "DC24 LFG Clock Tower", "GWF 15 LFG" etc, etc.
1 - Party is spanking the boss
2 - Cleric is healing
3 - Adds spawned, the only person aggroing them is cleric, by healing
4 - Adds are going immediately after cleric, not very surprising. He's the only person doing anything in their perception, with healing.
5 - Cleric is running in circles trying to get rid of adds, tank is running after cleric spaming his only aoe taunt
6 - Except it will do only for a short time because cleric is healing himself producing even more aggro
Good riddance with this system. Another Cryptic game with broken aggro mechanics (CO is the first one).
On cleric: Since most of you clearly understand you can't kite, STOP RUNNING. Stay new the tank (if there is one) and dps, move and evade in a CIRCLE. Otherwise, the adds Will. Not. Die. Seriously. Guaranteed everyone will survive longer if you man up, take a hit, and let the dps blow them the **** up. If you can't do that then die like a ***** and the team will continue on without you, since you were useless that fight anyway.
Clerics are NOT needed in a dungeon. They just make it easier.
It's your job as the party to kill those enemies before your cleric dies.
Seems to be working fine to me.
So as bad as I hate it , right now Im rolling in a 5 wizard static group on my alt until tanking is brought into line with dps.
Let me clarify that I understand that the dynamic is intended to be different in this game, I am fine with that. However the random member of group I play with still would rather insult the guy in plate every time a healer or dps gets touched..That makes the game no fun. I cant even say that my tanking runs have been total fails, but I have had experiences where I am being attacked by players for things I can not control ..and I want to control them..I honestly do..
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
I really don't see all that many clerics being played, anyway. Maybe there's some kind of override where if there's so many people queuing for a dungeon and there's no tank or cleric, they'll just go ahead and allow it. I think the best way to resolve this issue is for the new Paragon paths to open up and for new classes to be added. Then you could have a healer/tank cleric or a tank GWF, etc. etc. and make it a lot easier to get a decent dungeon party.
Member of the Bring Gith and Artificers to Neverwinter Party.
This means clerics are starting to queue as pairs thus reducing the amount of clerics in the pool for LFD. Until Cryptic does something about AS stacking (ie only allowing players to gain the buff from 1 AS at a time) you'll see this.
Not to sound like an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but GW's "no trinity" design is the reason i quit it in the first place. Now, dont get me wrong, im game for trying new stuff and breaking norms, but i aboslutely despise GW2's instances, with a passion. I did like 10 of them, every time hoping that "Okay, maybe this time i will actually enjoy it". Nope. Every time it felt like an annoying chore, that sucked me dry of any joy and fun that i might have had previously.
QFT.
NWO brings something new to it by making these trinity "jobs" easier (like not needing an actual tank to finish a dungeon) but in this state, it's almost broken. Almost.
Ethica - 60 - Human Guardian Fighter
Ehgrieza - 40 - Halfling Trickster Rogue
Windowpane - 30 - Tiefling Control Wizard
I haven't run into grouping problems yet, still enjoying my cleric too much to bother with alts. Hopefully it gets better though.