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How would you improve GWF?
brolleun
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 1 Arc User
Suggestions on how to improve Great Weapon Fighter:
Sprint: increase the stamina gain or decrease the decay, give the GWF frames of invisibility while using sprint (much like a dodge, block, or blink would) and increase the base movement speed (even with the passive Bravery and feat Fast runner the GWF is far too slow). Sprint in its current implementation is outperformed in every instance of movement, and has no beneficial effects such as dodge or block.
Determination: should always build in combat, when struck, and when the GWF is doing damage without the use of passive powers or feats. Determination is used for only one thing: Unstoppable. And as the resource stands it only plays well in factors of Tanking or solo PVE.
Unstoppable: should always provide a base mitigation to damage by 50% when activated, the GWF should be allowed to turn Unstoppable on and off at-will (as long as GWF has determination) and Unstoppable should have its duration increased by 1, 2, or 3 seconds.
Damage: give the GWF an increase to all powers by 10% to 20%--at the very least.
Feats: a pass is needed in regards to GWF feats, as some become redundant, do not work as intended, or simply provide no actual or visible benefit.
Powers: a pass is needed in regards to GWF feats, as some are useless, mediocre, or pigeonhole.
Sprint: increase the stamina gain or decrease the decay, give the GWF frames of invisibility while using sprint (much like a dodge, block, or blink would) and increase the base movement speed (even with the passive Bravery and feat Fast runner the GWF is far too slow). Sprint in its current implementation is outperformed in every instance of movement, and has no beneficial effects such as dodge or block.
Determination: should always build in combat, when struck, and when the GWF is doing damage without the use of passive powers or feats. Determination is used for only one thing: Unstoppable. And as the resource stands it only plays well in factors of Tanking or solo PVE.
Unstoppable: should always provide a base mitigation to damage by 50% when activated, the GWF should be allowed to turn Unstoppable on and off at-will (as long as GWF has determination) and Unstoppable should have its duration increased by 1, 2, or 3 seconds.
Damage: give the GWF an increase to all powers by 10% to 20%--at the very least.
Feats: a pass is needed in regards to GWF feats, as some become redundant, do not work as intended, or simply provide no actual or visible benefit.
Powers: a pass is needed in regards to GWF feats, as some are useless, mediocre, or pigeonhole.
Post edited by brolleun on
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Comments
I hope that they address feats first, prior to making any possible sweeping changes.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
His lategame is pretty solid and balance should be only taken in account for level 60.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
If more people held that opinion, some of our less viable feats would likely get fixed sooner. Sadly, most people on these boards will likely disagree.:(
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
official wiki says Role: Striker
are wiki wrong ?
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Great_Weapon_Fighter
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=869911
You're a moron, I want you to understand this, and not because you dissented, but because you didn't bother to read anything I typed, and gave a knee jerk response of, "why [do] you insist on turning him into a single-target DPS[?]"
In game description of the Sentinel paragon tree:
"The Sentinel uses innate strength to entice the aggression of monsters and mitigate blows that would otherwise devastate allies"
Feel free to look it up, it's there and I think in game descriptions should be trusted more than what someone tossed in a wiki.
The GWF is not strictly just a striker, or at least not meant purely for that role alone. You can see it in the heavily defensive armor drops in T2 epics, so even the itemization is there. The problem? Threat is a mess despite the tree implying threat generation and large leaps in survival via feats.
Most people don't care though because most people want to top the DPS charts.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
and the Destroyer says:
"The Destroyer is a torrent of unfettered rage and anger that deals a crushing amount of damage no foe is likely to survive."
looks like a striker to me.
and the Rogue Scoundrel
"focus on underhanded tactics to maintain survivability while gradually weakening foes."
If you're going to pull information that has little relevance out of your ***, you might as well make sure it's accurate.
http://nwowiki.co/index.php?title=Classes
These take their sources directly from the D&D Fourth Edition Player Handbooks, by the way.
And in the Player Handbooks, the Great Weapon Fighter is a Defender. You fail.
http://nwowiki.co/
is not the official wiki, http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=869911
read the main page http://nwowiki.co
but is offtopic , sorry
It isn't the official wiki, but it gets its information from the 4E Player Handbooks. AKA part of the source material this entire game was based around. And the source material says the Great Weapon Fighter is a Defender.
But you're right about it being offtopic and not really relevant when we're talking about Neverwinter, but I think the point still stands, albeit relatively. The GWF scales with gear more then the other classes in the game. Low levels suck, but GWFs only get better as they get access to better gear and more powers/feats to work with.
If anything, I would bump up the damage of the at-will powers, if only a bit, as I do agree their damage is amazingly low compared to, say, a CW, TR, or even a GF's. I don't think that would be too overpowered. Just my thoughts.
I understand we are kind of tanky and have more survivability then other classes (other than GFs obviously) but our class mechanic shouldn't be tied to being hit, its pretty stupid IMHO. We are a Off Tank, but as a Off Tank you won't always be tanking or getting hit, sometimes you will be just doing DPS like everyone else in the group.
I really feel like they need to change the way determination works and how it is built up and then Adjust Destroyer's Purpose Feat accordingly, like make it generate more per attack or allow it to slowly gain determination per attack while in Unstoppable (which would allow you to be unstoppable longer) or something.
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http://nwowiki.co/index.php?title=Great_Weapon_Fighter.
I do not know how much evidence you need to believe that the GWF is a striker class. It is an AOE striker class. Just like the rogue is a single target Striker class. Also do not forget the CW has two dps paragon trees. Does that make it a striker? No it a controller. Yet that does not stop players from playing the class incorrectly.
PW says GWF is an AOE striker class but as everyone knows it is underpowered. Leveling is super hard with this class. As mobs have so much hp. Do so much damage while we have so little dps/hp. We get slaughtered super easy. It AOE damage is super low. Going into an instant and not being able to clean up trash mobs like we should be doing.
You know why Bosses summon endless waves of mobs? It so that CW pulls all the trash to the boss. Then the GWF to AOE the trash down while still hitting the boss. Rogues only DPS boss. While tank makes sure trash and boss is own them. Sadly CW do not control and GWF dps sucks.
A little? Try like a lot. When GF can out dps a GWF. There is something wrong with this picture. Really even with unlocking their best At Will ability and trying to dps down trash mobs in dungeons. Using every aoe ability I have and the trash mobs loose so little life. There is something super wrong about the class.
Also what do you mean OP? I do not remember a boss battle where the boss screams out at the end. "Curse you GWF and your OP DPS." Are you talking about that Tacked on crappy PVP garbage that should not even belong in this game. This is DND not CoD. There is no PVP in table top. Well not unless I make my character to attack another party member. Which that more of a you trolling then pvping. DnD has aways been Pure PVE and no pvp.
The fact the devs have even put pvp in this game is bad enough. Let alone for them to listen to the cry babies. They should not nerf classes at all. Buff classes based on PVE content only. Right now unless you have the best gear in the bloody game. GWF sucks. Even then anything a GWF can do. Everyone else can do better. So they need to get a major buff on their AOE dps. Single target is fine in my book. AOE is just to week.
I'll have as one sided as a view as all of you, once a dev bothers to take the time to say otherwise and they remove the tanking focused sets. Until that day, I expect the paragon trees to fulfill their described roles. Unless some of you feel that having more options when speccing would make this less of a D&D game?
And by the way, I currently play the class as a DPS - because the Sentinel tree is virtually useless at this time. This is way off topic though... I'm sure the devs will end up doing the right thing in the end - regardless of your preference or mine.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
You know what the off tank job is? Grab the trash that a boss does and makes sure it not killing the healers. Also here something. We only get like 1 - 2 tanking ability. Out agro is poor. We has low hp. Mods still hit us for a great deal of damage. Even with a great deal of defense. Offense stats stack higher and fasted then defense stats. For like 2k defense we only get like 10% damage migration. Which is pretty low. I am not joking. The off tanks stats suck for this class. Why? Because we where epic in close beta. People cried in pvp that we did do much damage and was to hard to kill. So they nerfed both offense and defense stat.
Also this is not table top. Yes the table top says GWF is a tank class but this is not table top. So please get the **** table top lore out of your head. The pvp in this game is bad enough with out **** lore fans *****ing and ruining the game. Clerics has 2 dps trees and so does CW. Does that make them a dps? Rogue has a tanking tree. Does that make them an off tank?
So please do not go *****ing about use wanting to play out class right.
I do agree with this. The idea of them only have 5 classes but only one paragon tree is bad. If they where only going to make 5 classes for launch. They should have finished all 5 classes. Not half assed the classes and said. "Done time to launch this game." We better get free respect when they add the new paragon trees.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
But but.. the boss hit me for big number when my back was turned after I got armor debuffed and didn't have unstoppable up, it means I can't take any hits at all!
Tankyness isn't really too much of an issue ATM, even full DPS gear/spec I take surprisingly little damage (with unstoppable up); sentinal damage reduction should be fine. It's everything but straight damage reduction that seems to be the issue I would guess.
I did read. You basically ask for more mitigation + more DPS so you can stick to a single target = becoming a Striker.
If you think that my reasoning makes me a moron, so be it. I can see how fell you take feedback.
GWF is a Defender/Controller. You offtank add waves and clear them so they don't crush your team.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
Well yeah because I am not level 60 and I am not in full epics. I am talking about level 30 - 40 dungeons. I am talking about leveling. Classes like CW and TR can ether 2 shot mobs or CC the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of mobs so they can level up with no real challenge.
When it comes to level it is super hard.
The problem with the class is the fact it is gimped. We are only asking for them to ungimp the class. Also with an ungimped class. You will find it easier to play as a tank. Because you will be able to hold agro more effective with a buff.
So why are you against the devs from buffing the class if it means you will become a more effective tank. Do you like being a gimp tanks?
Here is what you where looking for. http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=79938.
Role: Damage Dealer and Secondary Defender. You should notice it says Secondary Defender. Not primary Defender. You should also see it does not say Secondary Damage dealer. The primary role is AOE DPS. The Secondary role is off tank.
Now you are complaining because we feel our primary role is bad. You are wanting use the play the class for it secondary role. Which is off tank. While I often scream at CW for not playing their class for it primary role. Controlling and CC mobs. The second role is a dps. For you to scream that a GWF should be Main Tank. That would mean you are find with a DPC CW. Cause that is a second role for them.
The Fact you need to be level 60 and have full epics to play this class is a bad thing. This post is so the devs to understand the class is very much unplayable the 1 - 59 area. Only playable once you are level 60 and in full epics.((not this is being over exaggerated but the point is. GWF is that hardest class to level up. Also let not forget you have to pay real money to respect your class. Making so ever skill/talent point you spend is a very valuable. You do not know if skill a or skill be will suck tell you put points into it.
Controller? Really, so you are saying GWF can stun lock mobs like a CW? Cause a controller has a ton of CC ability and I only seen like 3 ability with some type of CC.
You have lots of stuns and CC with several skills and efficient add wave clearing tools if built properly: that is what defines a Controller, basically. Being able to clear minion waves and/or supress them.
A Striker can't do this without sacrificing a ton of his/her DPS: most AoE skills they have are either dailies or costly Encounter powers.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
There's a lot that needs to be fixed/balanced with GWFs, but they should start with areas that are clearly broken and ineffective. That's all.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
I have one slow. On knockdown. One push and one stun. Which 2 of the attacks are only single target. When I hear striker I think dps. I do not think single target dps. When I hear controller. I think buffer and debuffer, Not dps.
Try to remember this is not table top. It not using 100% of the table top roles. Think of this as 65% mmo and 35%table top. Strike sounds like a dps in MMO. I do not think they will call the GWF a nuker. AKA AOE dps because rogues will be made and that stuff.
oh ok. I get what you are saying. Yes it true the class has a lot of problem and the should start with the with areas that are clearly broken and ineffective. I thought you where saying you did not want them to fix the GWF because people where playing it wrong.
Lol wow talk about miss communications. Yes ok now that we are on the ball. Yes this class was poorly built. Then badly nerfed with minor to no fixing. So they can shove it out the door to meet a dead line. I am glad we are now on the same page.
So its simple, slow animations in order to give it the clusmy feel, since long animation = easier to evade and easier to interrupt. Of course if GWF succes to output such "charge" attack, it should send enemies prone or stun and deal devastating amount of damage. Also the class should have faster abilties, more reliable ones, but weaker than other classes with similar casting speeds.
In example, where good example is reaping strike:
1) Slow charge time, around 3-5sec to fully charge skill, thats together with animation speed after releasing the button. Damage should be equal to DPS of TR but +10% more per sec of charge . So for example if TR do 100DPS and GWF charge skill take 3sec, the GWF hit should do 300 DPS +30%, so 390 DPS. Thats more than TR DPS, but you need to succed thru the drawback of speed.
2) Faster cast time skills, like 0.5-1.5sec long animations, should deal approximitly 15-25% dmg less than TR. So if TR got skill that deal 100 DPS in 1sec, GWF will deal with similar skill 80 DPS in also 1sec.
Its simple trading mechanism.
TR got defense by moblity/speed where GWF should get it by brute force, so more armor/hp.
TR got high suistain damage, dealing fast and precise/easy to land hits that deal good dmg where GWF should be slow, easy to interrupt and evade, but dealing wery high dmg, possibly in aoe.
TR got bit of CC where GWF have bit more of it, but execute it not so often due to slow attack speed.
Currently GWF is swinging the sword at moderate to fast speed, with is joke a bit, and it deal dmg similar to a child hiting you with some branch from tree. CC amount if acceptable, if we calculate the CC per minute or something like that.
2) Grudge Style and Intimidation in the Sentinel tree could use some love.
And that's about it.
You argue from assumption, and I don't rightly care if people dissent (that is the whole point of this thread) so what makes you a moron, I can't stress this enough, is you did not read my original post, you assumed what I wanted, and you do not comprehend English well.
Stop using fallacies, and just state how you'd like the class improved, changed, or left well-enough-alone.
I do agree the damage should be high but not to slow. We are in chain mail not plate mail. You want to compare mobility from chain to leather. A GWF would actually move fast and be more nimble then a rogue. You have to remember the leather armor they wear back in those days where very much like raw hide plate mail. It did not flex and bend like the sole of a tennis shoe.
Also I disagree with the easier to evade/interrupt. Sure it harder to get a big two handed sword moving but once you get it moving. It becomes a 6 - 8 foot long let say 300 pound moving object. The weight helps the sword picks up speed. The speed adds more weight. Which makes it move faster. While the sword it self might only way 60 pounds. The laws of physics soon turn those 60 points into 200-300 pounds easy. So unless you can do a perfect limbo there is no dodging it. Even if you stun the person. Physics laws will keep that blade moving right into you.
Yes the damage of the GWF is weak and bit to fast. While I do agree they can slow down the attack speed for like triple damage. Still the should balance out the game to the pve content. Like dungeons and questing. Not some pvp players idea of good balance. Cause pvp players want to be able to fly. One shot kill players and take 0 damage.