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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Interesting Quote

shahualingshahualing Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
From the managing editor at MMORPG.com:

I keep reading that the game is in "open beta", but are they collecting money?

If so, the game is not in "beta", but is in "production".

It's a marketing decision that PWE has made. Rest easy though. If "launch" isn't right around the corner, we'll be reviewing (scoring) the title in a few weeks.

Seems not even the press is buying the Open Beta thing.
Trade Chat Channel Thread.

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http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?301322-Unofficial-Official-Trade-Channels-for-Dragon-Mindflayer-Beholder
Post edited by shahualing on
«13

Comments

  • warbossenfowarbossenfo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You are very negative today. What happened to you?
  • terradraconisterradraconis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Fine so don't call it an open beta. But also don't come whining to the boards when there are bugs and other problems.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vythicalvythical Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    shahualing wrote: »
    Well, me being negative sort of is irrelevant to the topic...

    I find this amusing considering you've been derailing other peoples threads lately.
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    A lot of titles are doing this.
  • airsykoairsyko Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    And yet, almost every single game that has ever had an "open beta" has done the exact same thing.
  • umbagloumbaglo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    "Production" is the wrong term to use; any game is in production up until the point that there is no one working on it anymore. Even if they weren't taking money, the game would still be in production.

    The fact that there's "controversy" about the term Open Beta means that people just plain don't understand what the term means.

    As per Wiki:
    It generally begins when the software is feature complete. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues and may still cause crashes or data loss. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing.
    Developers release either a closed beta or an open beta; closed beta versions are released to a restricted group of individuals for a user test by invitation, while open beta testers are from a larger group, or anyone interested. The testers report any bugs that they find, and sometimes suggest additional features they think should be available in the final version.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta

    It's undeniable that the game is still in a testing phase, even if they're taking money for services. And it's opened up to everyone, with no NDA. While people may not think the result is any different then some other official releases, it's still an open beta by definition.
  • drwarpeffectdrwarpeffect Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    terradraconis wrote: »
    Fine so don't call it an open beta. But also don't come whining to the boards when there are bugs and other problems.

    Are you really trying to say that games in open release do not have bugs? I mean are you REALLY trying to say that? Once they take the money the game is in release whether the company calls it beta or not. You may think this is only a matter of opinion but check commerce law first. Taking money for a product or service generates obligations that supersede even the TOS as certain rights or obligations cannot be changed by contract.
  • terradraconisterradraconis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    shahualing wrote: »
    That makes absolutely no sense.

    If it's not Open Beta, shouldn't there be a reasonable lack of bugs and other problems?

    But neither Cryptic nor Perfect World are claiming it isn't open beta. It you and other players that are claiming it isn't open beta. So if you play a game that the studio making it and the publisher both claim is in open beta and have problems don't come crying to the boards or the rest of us players about how it is unacceptable for a published game to have these problems.

    Both the studio and the publisher are not claiming the game is done and ready for final release yet.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • drwarpeffectdrwarpeffect Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    umbaglo wrote: »
    "Production" is the wrong term to use; any game is in production up until the point that there is no one working on it anymore. Even if they weren't taking money, the game would still be in production.

    The fact that there's "controversy" about the term Open Beta means that people just plain don't understand what the term means.

    As per Wiki:





    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta

    It's undeniable that the game is still in a testing phase, even if they're taking money for services. And it's opened up to everyone, with no NDA. While people may not think the result is any different then some other official releases, it's still an open beta by definition.

    Giving a definition does not settle this argument. The argument is about whether this term is correctly applied in this case or not, not about what the definition is.
  • gralgrathorgralgrathor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The Founders Packs headstart thing was applied to Open Beta access, correct? And they're taking your money, instead of giving everyone free Zen to test all the stuff and then wiping it on launch? I think they even said they won't be wiping anything anymore before launch. No increased drop rates on rare and epic stuff so people can test it out for balancing purposes? No massive xp boost so a lot of people can try out every part of the game to see if it all works? No pestering us to fill in bug reports for anything?

    Yeah, this is pretty obviously not an Open Beta.
  • umbagloumbaglo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    drwarpeffect wrote: »
    Giving a definition does not settle this argument. The argument is about whether this term is correctly applied in this case or not, not about what the definition is.

    And a definition goes to show exactly that. Again, it's undeniable that the game is in a testing phase, and it's undeniable that it's available to the widest number of people. You can argue that other games have done similar but have not used the term "open beta", but the fact still remains that Cryptic did, and it still fits in the definition.
  • stereoblindxstereoblindx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 246 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    This has been my argument in many threads. If the game is charging you for anything it should not be called an open beta, especially when the developers aren't even communicating with us in any way, but of course all of our northern heroes want to tell me I'm wrong and that so many other games do this. I haven't seen one unless you're all talking about obscure korean f2ps which don't even matter anyway.
  • bobherkamerbobherkamer Member Posts: 62
    edited May 2013
    Can't seem to find one thread where an argument has not been started between folks. Society working as intended ! /facepalm
  • umbagloumbaglo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gralgrathor wrote: »
    The Founders Packs headstart thing was applied to Open Beta access, correct? And they're taking your money, instead of giving everyone free Zen to test all the stuff and then wiping it on launch? I think they even said they won't be wiping anything anymore before launch. No increased drop rates on rare and epic stuff so people can test it out for balancing purposes? No massive xp boost so a lot of people can try out every part of the game to see if it all works? No pestering us to fill in bug reports for anything?

    Yeah, this is pretty obviously not an Open Beta.

    How does increased rates test the way that any normal player will play the game? How can they know if quest encounters are properly balanced if beta players go through at a higher level with higher then average gear? Proper game testing works when you have testers play in exactly the same way that a normal player will.
  • knightfalzknightfalz Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Where the difference lies is that they are taking money for the game. Once upon a time games in open beta didn't charge money for anything because they weren't done yet or the network wasn't polished yet, leading to such issues as... frequent down time.

    The practice of taking money for games in open beta is relatively new. It is no wonder it is not accepted as universally valid yet, and that taking in money is seen as an indication of release. It's becoming more frequent though, especially with f2p titles.
  • knightfalzknightfalz Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bobherkamer wrote: »
    Can't seem to find one thread where an argument has not been started between folks. Society working as intended ! /facepalm

    The human race is centered on conflict. For support of this contention, consult history.
  • nerbelethnerbeleth Member Posts: 362 Former Developer
    edited May 2013
    Its not a beta, its a soft launch, they keep the 'beta' title on so whenever issues appear tools would justify these issues by saying 'hey, its a beta'

    they did the same with blacklight retribution, was an 'open beta' for a year, with cash shop and all, got version 1.00 after a year.
    Parity Tester
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    I7 4770k OC////Asus formula VI extreme////seasonic platinum 1000w PSU////GTx 780TI SC////32 ghz ram kingston hyperX predators////NXZT phantom 820
  • muzrub333muzrub333 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    shahualing wrote: »
    That makes absolutely no sense.

    If it's not Open Beta, shouldn't there be a reasonable lack of bugs and other problems?

    So young, so innocent...

    You haven't played many MMO's have you?
  • jfoodjfood Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    umbaglo wrote: »
    How does increased rates test the way that any normal player will play the game? How can they know if quest encounters are properly balanced if beta players go through at a higher level with higher then average gear? Proper game testing works when you have testers play in exactly the same way that a normal player will.

    On the flipside, they do cash in when someone specs into a bugged talent or ability that doesn't work. That's gotta be making money hand over fist.

    From ten feet back it's kind of amazing to see.
  • ascher11tascher11t Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 47
    edited May 2013
    shahualing wrote: »

    I don't think you understand what "Open Beta" means.

    Open Beta:
    Open Beta is still considering beta testing, but almost all of the bugs / problems with the game have already been worked out. Developers usually focus on enhancing the game by adding new features during open beta rather than fixing bugs, but users are still encourage to submit any bugs they discover during Open Beta.
  • bobherkamerbobherkamer Member Posts: 62
    edited May 2013
    knightfalz wrote: »
    The human race is centered on conflict. For support of this contention, consult history.

    hehe. that's exactly what I was thinking when I made the statement. Odd species we are :)
  • redwaterxredwaterx Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 130 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    umbaglo wrote: »
    "Production" is the wrong term to use; any game is in production up until the point that there is no one working on it anymore. Even if they weren't taking money, the game would still be in production.

    The fact that there's "controversy" about the term Open Beta means that people just plain don't understand what the term means.

    As per Wiki:





    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta

    It's undeniable that the game is still in a testing phase, even if they're taking money for services. And it's opened up to everyone, with no NDA. While people may not think the result is any different then some other official releases, it's still an open beta by definition.

    this ^
    I really cannot fathom why people are debating this.
  • devlinnedevlinne Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    WHATS THIS???!!

    It has been repeatedly ENFORCED...that the all encompassing phrase "It's BETA" WINS every argument,discussion,lotto,LIFE,etc etc.

    The SACRED WORDS have been spoken! why are all of you still talking??? HOW DARE you challenge the ONE PHRASE that rules them all???!!

    CLOSE THIS THREAD AND ALL OTHER DISCUSSIONS NOW!
    PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
  • asakochanasakochan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    shahualing wrote: »
    Which ones? This is the only one I know that has done something like this. Granted I'm not exactly knowledgeable in the F2P game market, but I like DND and I LOVED NWN 1&2, which is what drew me here.

    all PWI games was launched in Open beta. Example Forsaken world was in open beta for almost one year until they decided was the time for a new patch and added new lvl cap and new content so they declared was officially launched. But was the game on beta for ayear? Lol no!!
    I quitted at lvl 80 with epic gear full gemmed bought from cash shop! :D
  • chai23chai23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    terradraconis wrote: »
    Fine so don't call it an open beta. But also don't come whining to the boards when there are bugs and other problems.

    So calling it beta just dismisses any significance and impact of bugs. Dont worry guys, its still in beta.

    It doesnt matter to me what terms they use to define the existance of their game. The bugs, exploits, and method of monetization are what they are.
  • soldacksoldack Member Posts: 31
    edited May 2013
    Beta is for testing and bug finding. this is not beta. Largest glaring hole in any argument of anyone trying to argue that this is a beta is in respecing. Beta is for testing and I can't even respec my toon to try different builds? If I could respec for free to test builds, looks for bugs, offer feedback, etc... then I would accept this is a beta. As is, this is not a beta, this is a released game with a marketing ploy.
  • arielluariellu Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Life is an open beta, they are still trying to patch that too.
  • solresolsolresol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I guess it beats Kickstarters as they take money months, years before you can test/play the Alpha!
  • gralgrathorgralgrathor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    umbaglo wrote: »
    How does increased rates test the way that any normal player will play the game? How can they know if quest encounters are properly balanced if beta players go through at a higher level with higher then average gear? Proper game testing works when you have testers play in exactly the same way that a normal player will.

    Right, because QA testers are just free to roam around in a game and do as they please. No, they get tasks they repeat over and over until something breaks. Then the devs fix it.

    And that's why you wipe, and often. Get everyone into end-game, let them try it out. Let them try and break it. Wipe. Give everyone a buttload of Zen to try out the expensive mounts and companions and what not, or just give them the items, whatever. Wipe. Rinse and repeat for all major aspects. PvP, Foundry, etc. Throw a large number of people at any one part. Put a level restriction at level 10, see how well those areas hold up. Same at 20. 30. 40.

    In other words, you test.

    Or you don't do that, fine, ain't no thang. But the minute the cash shop opens up and you start taking people's money is the day you've launched.

    Not even World of Tanks, one of the pay-2-winniest, greediest f2p games of them all, opened up their freaking cash shop during Open Beta. They gave everyone 250 Gold every day they logged in so they could test and try out the pay-for options.
  • ascher11tascher11t Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 47
    edited May 2013
    shahualing wrote: »
    I don't think you do either.

    "Open betas serve the purpose of testing among an extremely wide user base likely to bring to light obscure errors that a much smaller testing team might not find."

    Video games' Open Beta's are different from general software OB's.
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