We play as clerics too, we know of those skills, but having to use certain skills in certain fashions makes our build choices rather limited. If they would fix agro for clerics, it would help alot for everyone. I for one dont like pulling aggro for just existing.
And honestly, Ive been the reason for a few wipes myself on purpose. I died, the team got wiped, they noticed they needed to defend the cleric and we won after that. Sometimes you just need to remind them of whats important.
The issue in my opinion isn't the builds, it's other players and I don't think you can make Cryptic responsible for how other players are going to act. Sure decreasing the aggro would make things easier for cleric but removing it entirely would make the class too easy and when you get more towards end-game in parties that are more organized then it becomes a harder thing to balance. As it goes sunburst is pretty essential to the vast majority of cleric builds and divine power is always a part. Same thing with sprint, that's not a part you can customize and also you have 2 slots of daily powers so always having hallowed ground isn't the biggest of issues in my opinion as it's clearly more party based than the other abilities.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2013
Since the game has entered Open Beta I have been playing the Cleric quite a bit in groups.
I honestly don't feel like they pull a lot of aggro. Or at least not more than they should.
I personally feel like there are two halves of the issue:
1) The Guardian Fighter doesn't hold aggro as well as he should.
2) Team members not noticing when the cleric draws aggro.
I have played with some absolute boss Guardian Fighters. Ones which seem to be a pure out aggro magnets. But those are few and far between.
I'm not sure why but it just doesn't seem like the average Guardian Fighter can hold aggro like they should even if I am staring at them spam their powers and abilities as fast as they can.
However even if the Guardian Fighter loses aggro my only issue comes from the actions of the team after that point. I end up running in circles trying desperately to breath for a second and the Guardian Fighter normally races after trying to assist. But if the rest of the team just keeps focusing on the boss it causes a nightmare of a situation.
In my experience the Achilles Heel of the cleric drawing aggro isn't that they are pulling too much...but rather that the rest of the team, by in large, don't assist in pulling the aggro off the cleric after the fact.
Ok the Cleric AGOR is way to High and needs to be tone DOWN alot.( and i have all ability points in reduce agro does not do a dam thing)
95% of the mobs go after the Healer even if you just stand there and do nothing, as son as they see him to go after him and if by chance you cast a healing spell to heal a player well your done.
The cleric class is going to die because no one is going to play them because of this.
next time you guys are in combat look at your healer and see where all the mobs are at, all on him.
SO Reduce the Agro on the Cleric.
We will have 0.01% of current aggro generation and all mobs will still go for us.
Why?
Because mindless pugs prefer to DPS race boss without giving a S about us.
In competent group with right feats its not that much of an issue, because all adds are on CW.
Realistiacally when I play PUGs I don't expect much in the way of teamwork or knowledge of game mechanics especially dungeon partys and I've built my DC accordingly.It attracts adds naturally,so in turn I've built it to deal with adds.Any other player that decides to help take down the adds gets AOE healing and any that don't obviously recieve no healing.
My build almost plays out like a melee cleric of old,effective melee range skills that benefit those on the front line.
When/if my gaming clan decide to populate this game,I will then respec or rebuild from scratch,a cleric based on healing that plays that specific role in partys instead of the current role of.......keep myself alive while everyone watches their crit numbers float over bosses heads.
I don't believe a tank should even be trying to pull add aggression......
The sooner players learn that adds are everyone but the tanks concern and that tanks should be focusing on the big hitters/boss aggression when the adds arrive,the better off we will all be.
If you are thinking of relying purely on clerics healing to scrape through dungeons then you will only be disappointed.
In the light of current cleric aggro mechanics and the mindset of a good portion of pugs to try and blitz content I've totally reworked my second DC to a non healer and specced in AOE control/damage and personal defense (some of which has innate healing ability).This second DCs survivability in group situations (and solo) has improved ten fold.
As for the rest of the groups survival chances ...... well best they start dealing with adds and boss aggro properly,use their potions,stop standing in BIG red circles,stop walking on traps,start using voice chat and most of all,give DCs a break. lol
I actually had one guy tell me today I was costing him money because he had to use healing pots and that I was a lousy healer ! He assumed because I was DC that I was healer I suppose.But the funny thing is,had I not been there would he have used as many pots ? Would he have played differently,less aggressive more cautiously ?
I too went through a lot of pots,as it seems in most pugs that the DC gets left to handle or be man handled by any adds for the duration of how long it takes the DC to kill them while the rest of the team look at the big critical numbers floating above the big bosses head.It's usually when the DCs healing starts to disappear that adds are even a concern to most others.....with crys of HEAL PLZ ringing in the dungeon.
Anyway,I went off on a tangent lol
Short version: Everyone NOT aggro tank,kill the adds please
Such a true depiction. I had already built mine as a dps + healer cleric, to heck with anyone who ever says can't do both :P.
I have a piece of advice for every cleric who pugs and gets dps that do not peel off boss (please do not do this if the wizard or melee dps are actually helping, it's a pretty evil move):
KITE INTO THE BOSS
Yes. You heard me. You see nobody is getting off boss and 12+ ads are out eating at your health? Kite into the boss. The elites red circles will get the idiots' attention in no time. And they will deal with them.
You can also kite in circles around the boss. They will have no choice but to wake up or die.
I'm sorry it's come down to this but some pug groups are shameless. I use gazillion pots and can't even take advantage of my own healing or regain divinity cause I have entire rooms after me. Well, why suffer alone? It'll teach them.
If people want to be idiots and let me struggle with the entire map, they deserve what is coming to them.
I have a piece of advice for every cleric who pugs and gets dps that do not peel off boss (please do not do this if the wizard or melee dps are actually helping, it's a pretty evil move):
KITE INTO THE BOSS
If people want to be idiots and let me struggle with the entire map, they deserve what is coming to them.
Awesome! I actually did this to a group in that dragon skirmish. I got sick of the adds so I balled them up in the middle and stopped healing. Wiped group then left group. They wanted to play "Zerg the boss" and "oooh look at my big dps numbers" instead of win.
Awesome! I actually did this to a group in that dragon skirmish. I got sick of the adds so I balled them up in the middle and stopped healing. Wiped group then left group. They wanted to play "Zerg the boss" and "oooh look at my big dps numbers" instead of win.
I got a job for the tard DPS folks out there
Take care of MY CAT!!!
Thank you for a good hearty laugh this morning. Hats off to you, sir!
Usually pugs either deal with ads then or we die and they do better second run of it.
Pugs that go "we need to focus on boss more", I just leave. I've got no time, I have gear to farm.
Has anyone tried the "aggro fix" suggested a few times? I'm almost to level 16 on my DC, and am hoping that actually works for reducing the sheer number of mobs on me, assuming it's way worse in a dungeon than it is in a skirmish. Next time I'm able to get on I'm going to try it before a skirmish to see if it helps in any way, but it gets to be annoying when I wait for the fighters/rogues to get some aggro before casting anything, and yet the second I do they peel off and instantly surround me.
Comments
The issue in my opinion isn't the builds, it's other players and I don't think you can make Cryptic responsible for how other players are going to act. Sure decreasing the aggro would make things easier for cleric but removing it entirely would make the class too easy and when you get more towards end-game in parties that are more organized then it becomes a harder thing to balance. As it goes sunburst is pretty essential to the vast majority of cleric builds and divine power is always a part. Same thing with sprint, that's not a part you can customize and also you have 2 slots of daily powers so always having hallowed ground isn't the biggest of issues in my opinion as it's clearly more party based than the other abilities.
I honestly don't feel like they pull a lot of aggro. Or at least not more than they should.
I personally feel like there are two halves of the issue:
1) The Guardian Fighter doesn't hold aggro as well as he should.
2) Team members not noticing when the cleric draws aggro.
I have played with some absolute boss Guardian Fighters. Ones which seem to be a pure out aggro magnets. But those are few and far between.
I'm not sure why but it just doesn't seem like the average Guardian Fighter can hold aggro like they should even if I am staring at them spam their powers and abilities as fast as they can.
However even if the Guardian Fighter loses aggro my only issue comes from the actions of the team after that point. I end up running in circles trying desperately to breath for a second and the Guardian Fighter normally races after trying to assist. But if the rest of the team just keeps focusing on the boss it causes a nightmare of a situation.
In my experience the Achilles Heel of the cleric drawing aggro isn't that they are pulling too much...but rather that the rest of the team, by in large, don't assist in pulling the aggro off the cleric after the fact.
We will have 0.01% of current aggro generation and all mobs will still go for us.
Why?
Because mindless pugs prefer to DPS race boss without giving a S about us.
In competent group with right feats its not that much of an issue, because all adds are on CW.
My build almost plays out like a melee cleric of old,effective melee range skills that benefit those on the front line.
When/if my gaming clan decide to populate this game,I will then respec or rebuild from scratch,a cleric based on healing that plays that specific role in partys instead of the current role of.......keep myself alive while everyone watches their crit numbers float over bosses heads.
Game over Folks...we got a winner. Give him the chicken dinner.
<Rarely Sober> - Beholder
Such a true depiction. I had already built mine as a dps + healer cleric, to heck with anyone who ever says can't do both :P.
I have a piece of advice for every cleric who pugs and gets dps that do not peel off boss (please do not do this if the wizard or melee dps are actually helping, it's a pretty evil move):
KITE INTO THE BOSS
Yes. You heard me. You see nobody is getting off boss and 12+ ads are out eating at your health? Kite into the boss. The elites red circles will get the idiots' attention in no time. And they will deal with them.
You can also kite in circles around the boss. They will have no choice but to wake up or die.
I'm sorry it's come down to this but some pug groups are shameless. I use gazillion pots and can't even take advantage of my own healing or regain divinity cause I have entire rooms after me. Well, why suffer alone? It'll teach them.
If people want to be idiots and let me struggle with the entire map, they deserve what is coming to them.
Awesome! I actually did this to a group in that dragon skirmish. I got sick of the adds so I balled them up in the middle and stopped healing. Wiped group then left group. They wanted to play "Zerg the boss" and "oooh look at my big dps numbers" instead of win.
I got a job for the tard DPS folks out there
Take care of MY CAT!!!
<Rarely Sober> - Beholder
Thank you for a good hearty laugh this morning. Hats off to you, sir!
Usually pugs either deal with ads then or we die and they do better second run of it.
Pugs that go "we need to focus on boss more", I just leave. I've got no time, I have gear to farm.