Humans: +2 to one ability score, +3% defense, +2 heroic feats
These guys make decent everything. As GWFs they offset the loss of a shield by increasing their defense, relative to the baseline survivability of a GF. The extra Heroic Feats will give them access to another 2-4% bonus to one small portion of their character's utility, damage, or survivability. Adding a +2 to Strength gives them more damage, stamina, and DoT resistance, where Con would give them 4% more max HP and another 1% damage resistance. Dex, though, gives GWFs more damage, more deflection, and more aoe resistance.
Half Elf: +2 Con, +2 wisdom or charisma, +1 to non-class score, +1% crit severity, gold find, and deflect
The constitution bonus is nice, and charisma can make your pets more damaging and your big swinging AoE sword strikes more damaging if you're behind your enemy. The bonus to non-class score could get you a little bit of control resistance or recharge. Extra Crit severity and deflect are nice bonuses, but a little on the smallish side.
Halfling: +2 Dex, +2 Charisma or Con, +3% deflect, +10% control resistance
Dropping their points into Con makes Halflings one of the best defended GWFs you can make at level 1. With more hit points, greater deflection and stacking of racial deflection bonuses, and the Control Resistance: They're pretty durable. Not as durable as a GF, by far, but still good.
Elf: +2 Dex, +2Int or Wisdom, +1% critchance, +10% slow resistance.
Well, if you want to build a gw fighter that is control resistant while also throwing out a little more damage, on average, than a human fighter without a strength bonus, elf could be good for that. Really not well-designed for it, in the end, though.
Tiefling: +2 Charisma, +2 Con or Int, 10% chance to lower attacker power by 5%, deal 5% extra damage to targets under 50%
Tieflings are neat. That bonus to Con can shore up some of their penalties, and their charisma can make a cleric or wizard pet offset their lack of strength by making it up through pet-power. Lowering attacker power means reducing damage, of course, and dealing extra damage, always, to targets under 50% means that Tieflings will be more useful against mobs with high HP or resistance: Bosses, mostly, but also hard targets like Ogres or Shocktrooper Devils.
Dwarf: +2 Con, +2 Strength or Wisdom, resistance to forced move, resistance to DoTs
Dwarves make the best GFs, for certain. Their Con+Str combo makes them into absolutely wonderful tanks that are really hard to move and damage resistant when poisons and the like are involved. Those things also translate over really well to a GWF, who's increased survivability gives him more time to beat his enemies down with a large hunk of metal.
Half Orc: +2 Dex, +2 Strength or Con, Crit Severity +5%, +10% move for the first 3 seconds of combat
Flat out the best GWF you will ever see. Pop that secondary over to strength and you are the best one available, trumping even the Dwarf. Great Weapon fighters -can- have more durability, and several of the races give them that in spades. But a GWF cuts down large groups of enemies at once. You've got armor, sure, but your best damage mitigation tactic is to kill things. FAST.
With higher base damage (Str) higher resistance-ignoring (Dex) and increased Crit Severity (Furious Assault) you'll be dropping enemies with prejudice. And the fact that most all of the GWF's best attacks are AoE based means you'll make more attack rolls per attack, which leads to more crits. The GWF is an active-mitigation tank. And your mitigation is in the form of scads of AoE damage wiping your enemies out before they've got a chance to hit you with their best shot.
Half orcs, guys. That's the best form of GWF that I can see.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
To me it depends, that extra 3% defense and 2 heroic feats on human are always tricky, because it will be highly dependent on the heroic feats the class has.
Dwarf if your like Tanking or HP stacking after maxing Damage.
Orc will be arguably the most powerful with both Dex and Str bonuses as well as increased Crit damage. They also get the speed buff when entering combat. Hello, PvP.
Human is a balance, having some extra defense, the +2 Str like the others but instead of base stats or bonuses gets 3 extra Feat points which, no matter which extra 3 Feats you get, is better than Orc or Dwarf passives, but maybe not the Stat bonus.
Still, it is very much preference as those differences, while potentially important, don't make or break the class.
I am rolling Human, because I think Orc and Dwarves look silly. Holding out to see what Faerie Fire is though.
Humans: +2 to one ability score, +3% defense, +2 heroic feats
These guys make decent everything. As GWFs they offset the loss of a shield by increasing their defense, relative to the baseline survivability of a GF. The extra Heroic Feats will give them access to another 2-4% bonus to one small portion of their character's utility, damage, or survivability. Adding a +2 to Strength gives them more damage, stamina, and DoT resistance, where Con would give them 4% more max HP and another 1% damage resistance. Dex, though, gives GWFs more damage, more deflection, and more aoe resistance.
Constitution doesn't give damage resistance. It gives damage resistance ignored. Which is why I'll probably build a con based GWF.
I hate racials..as a maximiser your pretty much forced into one race
Racials are awesome. Don't min/max, play the race you enjoy. Even better: play an underused race/class combo and stick out from the thousands of cookie-cutters out there. Half-Orc mages are the best of both worlds!
Half Orc: +2 Dex, +2 Strength or Con, Crit Severity +5%, +10% move for the first 3 seconds of combat
Flat out the best GWF you will ever see. Pop that secondary over to strength and you are the best one available, trumping even the Dwarf.
But a GWF cuts down large groups of enemies at once. You've got armor, sure, but your best damage mitigation tactic is to kill things. FAST.
With higher base damage (Str) higher resistance-ignoring (Dex) and increased Crit Severity (Furious Assault) you'll be dropping enemies with prejudice.
Time to put the over enthusiasm aside and look at the long term. I understand your excitement but let's not let your excitement cloud MMO experience and practical judgement. GWF's aren't new to the MMO world. The concept has been around the block a few times. In fact 4th ed. was specifically designed with online gaming in mind in order to breathe new life into the table top genre and attract new younger gamers while retaining the interest of veterans. GWF's aren't these dynamos of EPIC POWAH and 1/2 orcs certainly aren't the king kongs of the GWF meta game.
So, first and foremost, base stats in this game are practically worthless. So basing any sort of meta game off of that premise is just naive. You can start two characters, one with all 18's and another will all 10's, level them to 50 (the current beta cap) and the statistical differences are so negligible that it's near insulting that the devs even bother with the illusory "die rolling" at character creation to begin with.
The bulk of TTL & TTK stems from gear and the G-A-R-G-A-N-T-U-A-N bonuses said gear provides. The paltry +2 to (insert stat) peppered amongst the varying races will not even register when min/maxers like me get their hands on the release version of Neverwinter. What will matter are the percentile racials and to get to the point... the Tiefling's Bloodhunt racial.
Bar none hands down the single most OP racial this game has to offer (with Heroic Feat possibly coming in 2nd). And when I say "OP" I mean that in a very loosey goosey sense. Mathematically it's a TTK equivalent of 2.5%... ish. Which in some circles is a big deal but in most is nothing to go gonzo over. Nevertheless if a group can kill a boss in 2.5% less time that's a win/win in many people's books.
But I digress.
The orc's +5% crit severity doesn't even approach Bloodhunt unless you manage to muster up a 50+% crit chance. If you can manage that then they're mathematically equal. Until that magical 50% crit rate happens it is sub par to Bloodhunt. And considering that 50 crit doesn't even equate to 1% crit chance I find that possibility falling somewhere in between "zero" and "never gonna happen". Min/Maxers looking to eek the most out of their TTK potential will be rolling Tieflings... in droves. The 1/2 Orc's +movement % isn't even a factor for the GWF given it's sprint mechanic. If it were somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30% or a flat 10% at all times then that would play a PvP factor (non-factor for PvE) but as is it's not even on a spreadsheet's radar.
So, looking at this from a logical standpoint I have no idea where your enthusiasm for the 1/2 orc as the undisputed "GWF king" is coming from. At least from a mechanical standpoint. This hyperbolic hysteria over GWF's killing packs of monsters in droves is fairly absurd to be honest. The base damage of a GWF doesn't even approach that of a Trickster let alone a control wizard. And rightfully so. AoE will never be on par with single target damage. To do so is design mechanic suicide.
Further more trash is exactly that, trash. No one cares about your mad "deeps" when it comes to trash. The money maker is boss fights and GWF is miles behind if you expect them to outperform roles specifically designed for that arena. Where GWF's are going to niche are boss fights with adds. Lots and lots of adds. Like Bloodscar. In short: off-tanking and/or AoE DPS races to avoid enrage mechanics.
TL;DR
Tiefling. Everything else is "meh". Strictly speaking from a min/max perspective.
Is the 2% stat bonus to (x) applied separately from all other bonuses, either before or after all other calculations are done?
If so, then yeah. 2% extra base damage is a pretty minor issue. Maybe I just misunderstood when and how that percentage increase was applied.
Though Bloodhunt is pretty broken with that extra 5% damage.Though I'm not certain exactly how the crit severity versus flat damage increase would math out on a wider quantity of targets. Something to poke at, later, I imagine.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
Is the 2% stat bonus to (x) applied separately from all other bonuses, either before or after all other calculations are done?
This is a fair question and honestly no one knows except the devs. So unless they're willing to tell us we're at the whim of whoever manages to knock together a parsing suite first.
Anyway, in my post I was assuming a post +% increase. Meaning after all other bonuses/math. I was likewise assuming the same with the +% crit severity as well. If they're not and are instead pre +% increase then the TTK value increase will be lower. Just how much lower depends on how the bonuses are applied. Either way my assertion still remains true barring one being a post bonus and one being pre. I don't believe this is how it works though. Either way, all common denominators being eliminated, the math will still work out the same in comparison to one another.
Though I'm not certain exactly how the crit severity versus flat damage increase would math out on a wider quantity of targets.
Quantity is irrelevant. The same bonuses are being applied to each target in turn. It will still average out to be the same. Eventually. This is where crit severity loses out since a flat damage bonus doesn't rely on a RNG. EVENTUALLY... it will average the same. It all depends just how large a sample size you're willing to work out before crit severity catches up.
I rolled a halfling GWF just to be funny, and ended up really enjoying it. He was level 32 at the end of bwe3. I liked him more than the original half-orc and human i created
I rolled a halfling GWF just to be funny, and ended up really enjoying it. He was level 32 at the end of bwe3. I liked him more than the original half-orc and human i created
I also rolled a halfling GWF, just to be funny, and I am also really enjoying it. I love that the sword is bigger than my character with the tip of the sword clipped into the ground.
Comments
These guys make decent everything. As GWFs they offset the loss of a shield by increasing their defense, relative to the baseline survivability of a GF. The extra Heroic Feats will give them access to another 2-4% bonus to one small portion of their character's utility, damage, or survivability. Adding a +2 to Strength gives them more damage, stamina, and DoT resistance, where Con would give them 4% more max HP and another 1% damage resistance. Dex, though, gives GWFs more damage, more deflection, and more aoe resistance.
Half Elf: +2 Con, +2 wisdom or charisma, +1 to non-class score, +1% crit severity, gold find, and deflect
The constitution bonus is nice, and charisma can make your pets more damaging and your big swinging AoE sword strikes more damaging if you're behind your enemy. The bonus to non-class score could get you a little bit of control resistance or recharge. Extra Crit severity and deflect are nice bonuses, but a little on the smallish side.
Halfling: +2 Dex, +2 Charisma or Con, +3% deflect, +10% control resistance
Dropping their points into Con makes Halflings one of the best defended GWFs you can make at level 1. With more hit points, greater deflection and stacking of racial deflection bonuses, and the Control Resistance: They're pretty durable. Not as durable as a GF, by far, but still good.
Elf: +2 Dex, +2Int or Wisdom, +1% critchance, +10% slow resistance.
Well, if you want to build a gw fighter that is control resistant while also throwing out a little more damage, on average, than a human fighter without a strength bonus, elf could be good for that. Really not well-designed for it, in the end, though.
Tiefling: +2 Charisma, +2 Con or Int, 10% chance to lower attacker power by 5%, deal 5% extra damage to targets under 50%
Tieflings are neat. That bonus to Con can shore up some of their penalties, and their charisma can make a cleric or wizard pet offset their lack of strength by making it up through pet-power. Lowering attacker power means reducing damage, of course, and dealing extra damage, always, to targets under 50% means that Tieflings will be more useful against mobs with high HP or resistance: Bosses, mostly, but also hard targets like Ogres or Shocktrooper Devils.
Dwarf: +2 Con, +2 Strength or Wisdom, resistance to forced move, resistance to DoTs
Dwarves make the best GFs, for certain. Their Con+Str combo makes them into absolutely wonderful tanks that are really hard to move and damage resistant when poisons and the like are involved. Those things also translate over really well to a GWF, who's increased survivability gives him more time to beat his enemies down with a large hunk of metal.
Half Orc: +2 Dex, +2 Strength or Con, Crit Severity +5%, +10% move for the first 3 seconds of combat
Flat out the best GWF you will ever see. Pop that secondary over to strength and you are the best one available, trumping even the Dwarf. Great Weapon fighters -can- have more durability, and several of the races give them that in spades. But a GWF cuts down large groups of enemies at once. You've got armor, sure, but your best damage mitigation tactic is to kill things. FAST.
With higher base damage (Str) higher resistance-ignoring (Dex) and increased Crit Severity (Furious Assault) you'll be dropping enemies with prejudice. And the fact that most all of the GWF's best attacks are AoE based means you'll make more attack rolls per attack, which leads to more crits. The GWF is an active-mitigation tank. And your mitigation is in the form of scads of AoE damage wiping your enemies out before they've got a chance to hit you with their best shot.
Half orcs, guys. That's the best form of GWF that I can see.
-Rachel-
Tons of race info goodness, thanks!
Dwarf if your like Tanking or HP stacking after maxing Damage.
Orc will be arguably the most powerful with both Dex and Str bonuses as well as increased Crit damage. They also get the speed buff when entering combat. Hello, PvP.
Human is a balance, having some extra defense, the +2 Str like the others but instead of base stats or bonuses gets 3 extra Feat points which, no matter which extra 3 Feats you get, is better than Orc or Dwarf passives, but maybe not the Stat bonus.
Still, it is very much preference as those differences, while potentially important, don't make or break the class.
I am rolling Human, because I think Orc and Dwarves look silly. Holding out to see what Faerie Fire is though.
~Nokrot
Sabine Rottersgard disagrees with your statement that half-orcs look silly.
-Rachel-
Constitution doesn't give damage resistance. It gives damage resistance ignored. Which is why I'll probably build a con based GWF.
Racials are awesome. Don't min/max, play the race you enjoy. Even better: play an underused race/class combo and stick out from the thousands of cookie-cutters out there. Half-Orc mages are the best of both worlds!
While Steampunky's post has a lot of information in it that is correct it is also smattered with a metric ton of hyperbole. Specifically...
Time to put the over enthusiasm aside and look at the long term. I understand your excitement but let's not let your excitement cloud MMO experience and practical judgement. GWF's aren't new to the MMO world. The concept has been around the block a few times. In fact 4th ed. was specifically designed with online gaming in mind in order to breathe new life into the table top genre and attract new younger gamers while retaining the interest of veterans. GWF's aren't these dynamos of EPIC POWAH and 1/2 orcs certainly aren't the king kongs of the GWF meta game.
So, first and foremost, base stats in this game are practically worthless. So basing any sort of meta game off of that premise is just naive. You can start two characters, one with all 18's and another will all 10's, level them to 50 (the current beta cap) and the statistical differences are so negligible that it's near insulting that the devs even bother with the illusory "die rolling" at character creation to begin with.
The bulk of TTL & TTK stems from gear and the G-A-R-G-A-N-T-U-A-N bonuses said gear provides. The paltry +2 to (insert stat) peppered amongst the varying races will not even register when min/maxers like me get their hands on the release version of Neverwinter. What will matter are the percentile racials and to get to the point... the Tiefling's Bloodhunt racial.
Bar none hands down the single most OP racial this game has to offer (with Heroic Feat possibly coming in 2nd). And when I say "OP" I mean that in a very loosey goosey sense. Mathematically it's a TTK equivalent of 2.5%... ish. Which in some circles is a big deal but in most is nothing to go gonzo over. Nevertheless if a group can kill a boss in 2.5% less time that's a win/win in many people's books.
But I digress.
The orc's +5% crit severity doesn't even approach Bloodhunt unless you manage to muster up a 50+% crit chance. If you can manage that then they're mathematically equal. Until that magical 50% crit rate happens it is sub par to Bloodhunt. And considering that 50 crit doesn't even equate to 1% crit chance I find that possibility falling somewhere in between "zero" and "never gonna happen". Min/Maxers looking to eek the most out of their TTK potential will be rolling Tieflings... in droves. The 1/2 Orc's +movement % isn't even a factor for the GWF given it's sprint mechanic. If it were somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30% or a flat 10% at all times then that would play a PvP factor (non-factor for PvE) but as is it's not even on a spreadsheet's radar.
So, looking at this from a logical standpoint I have no idea where your enthusiasm for the 1/2 orc as the undisputed "GWF king" is coming from. At least from a mechanical standpoint. This hyperbolic hysteria over GWF's killing packs of monsters in droves is fairly absurd to be honest. The base damage of a GWF doesn't even approach that of a Trickster let alone a control wizard. And rightfully so. AoE will never be on par with single target damage. To do so is design mechanic suicide.
Further more trash is exactly that, trash. No one cares about your mad "deeps" when it comes to trash. The money maker is boss fights and GWF is miles behind if you expect them to outperform roles specifically designed for that arena. Where GWF's are going to niche are boss fights with adds. Lots and lots of adds. Like Bloodscar. In short: off-tanking and/or AoE DPS races to avoid enrage mechanics.
TL;DR
Tiefling. Everything else is "meh". Strictly speaking from a min/max perspective.
If you don't min/max then listen to this guy:
If so, then yeah. 2% extra base damage is a pretty minor issue. Maybe I just misunderstood when and how that percentage increase was applied.
Though Bloodhunt is pretty broken with that extra 5% damage.Though I'm not certain exactly how the crit severity versus flat damage increase would math out on a wider quantity of targets. Something to poke at, later, I imagine.
-Rachel-
This is a fair question and honestly no one knows except the devs. So unless they're willing to tell us we're at the whim of whoever manages to knock together a parsing suite first.
Anyway, in my post I was assuming a post +% increase. Meaning after all other bonuses/math. I was likewise assuming the same with the +% crit severity as well. If they're not and are instead pre +% increase then the TTK value increase will be lower. Just how much lower depends on how the bonuses are applied. Either way my assertion still remains true barring one being a post bonus and one being pre. I don't believe this is how it works though. Either way, all common denominators being eliminated, the math will still work out the same in comparison to one another.
Quantity is irrelevant. The same bonuses are being applied to each target in turn. It will still average out to be the same. Eventually. This is where crit severity loses out since a flat damage bonus doesn't rely on a RNG. EVENTUALLY... it will average the same. It all depends just how large a sample size you're willing to work out before crit severity catches up.
Again... assuming a 50% crit chance.
HAH!
= )
The HUMAN race gets +3 Heroic Feat Points, NOT +2.
It's orc. It's always been orc, will always be orc.
Best looking in the wolf hat, six betas running. The only metric that counts.
I also rolled a halfling GWF, just to be funny, and I am also really enjoying it. I love that the sword is bigger than my character with the tip of the sword clipped into the ground.